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Having problems with voice level in home theater.... persistant problem.. help please..

post #1 of 20
3/10/13 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
OK, i'm sure this subject has been dealt with, but after trying a lot of setups, i still have trouble with this situation.. My previous setup was a pionner Elite VSX 82 with Axiom speakers 5.1 Epic 500 setup. My Blu ray was my PS3 so maybe there is part of the equation but with my DVD player of another make same problem: When i listen to a movie soundtrack , the voices are WAY less loud then all other action and effects noise... This is so bad that i have to play with the volume on my remote continuasly or everthing is exploding in action and wispering in voices. Don't worry, i played around with the dynamic range compression on the PS3 and or dvd player, as well as on the Pioneer amp... tried direct, and all formats of dolby and digital on my amp. I also tried to increase db on the center channel on the amp as well.... The problem stays there. The problem seems a lot worse when i Watch translated french versions., even in 5.1 digital, and also seems worse if sound level is low. So when i play loud and in original English soundtrack, its tolerable.. but in normal day to day watching, its always a problem...

The good news is i am moving and am going to re do a new system.. so now is the time to plan ahead...

what do i need to do to solve this..

thanks...

i'll do what i have to...
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post #2 of 20
3/10/13 at 10:47pm
The placement of the center speaker can affect performance. Is it hidden away? Also, have you calibrated the output levels of your speakers?
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post #3 of 20
3/11/13 at 4:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

The placement of the center speaker can affect performance. Is it hidden away? Also, have you calibrated the output levels of your speakers?

Done that...




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post #4 of 20
3/11/13 at 5:10am
I've heard vocal issues can be due to reflections in the room - judging by your bare walls and hardwood floors, this could be your problem. Might be worth seeking room treatment advice from someone knowledgable.
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post #5 of 20
3/11/13 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyD360 View Post

I've heard vocal issues can be due to reflections in the room - judging by your bare walls and hardwood floors, this could be your problem. Might be worth seeking room treatment advice from someone knowledgable.

Yes, the system seems to be amazingly lacking in absorption or even diffusion.

Looks to me like someone put a thin layer or cork on the ceiling, but if it is what it appears to be, its spitting in the wind.

Also, there are some things that might be done with eq, but no indication that the OP has gone there.
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post #6 of 20
3/11/13 at 6:29pm
Thread Starter 
The ceiling is acoustic absorbing cork and extérior walls are 6 inch with insulation... the room is actually probably quite muffled... when you walk in it, you can hear the noise become dead.. no echo there... but i'll look into that possiblité.. by the way,, i am in another envrionnement right now, and in a normal environnement i.e. none insulated walls, it is much worse.. so i think there is more to do
acoustic cork: http://www.lusimat.ca/cork_soundproofing.asp

i really don't think the sound resonance is a problem in that room...
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post #7 of 20
3/11/13 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

The ceiling is acoustic absorbing cork and extérior walls are 6 inch with insulation... the room is actually probably quite muffled... when you walk in it, you can hear the noise become dead.. no echo there... but i'll look into that possiblité.. by the way,, i am in another envrionnement right now, and in a normal environnement i.e. none insulated walls, it is much worse.. so i think there is more to do
acoustic cork: http://www.lusimat.ca/cork_soundproofing.asp

i really don't think the sound resonance is a problem in that room...

the mid and high frequency sounds don't see the insulation behind walls they bounce off of, so it makes no difference for this purpose. I'd be shocked if you can't hear flutter echo if you clap your hands in that room. Just like I can in my room with carpeted floors, gyp board walls and ceilings.
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post #8 of 20
3/11/13 at 7:51pm
Thread Starter 
OK maybe.. but anyway.. do you really think that is the only problem?? my house burned down january 1 so i will build a new theater room.. i can adress this problem, but i 'm not sure it is such a major problem... is there a precise way of knowing if there is too much sound resonance in the room ?
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post #9 of 20
3/12/13 at 7:24am
Sorry to hear about your house. I was really just responding to the narrow issue of whether insulation behind a wall improves room acoustics. You'd need more than a casual discussion on an internet board to assess the acoustics of any room. But generally it's big untreated sapces (AFAIK) that most interfere with speech comprehension. Like a gym or a train station. When my kids swam competetively indoor pools sounded awful and it could be hard to understand the announcements. IMO chances are a lot of what you're responding to is simply the way the movies are mixed.
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post #10 of 20
3/12/13 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

OK, i'm sure this subject has been dealt with, but after trying a lot of setups, i still have trouble with this situation.. My previous setup was a pionner Elite VSX 82 with Axiom speakers 5.1 Epic 500 setup. My Blu ray was my PS3 so maybe there is part of the equation but with my DVD player of another make same problem: When i listen to a movie soundtrack , the voices are WAY less loud then all other action and effects noise... This is so bad that i have to play with the volume on my remote continuasly or everthing is exploding in action and wispering in voices. Don't worry, i played around with the dynamic range compression on the PS3 and or dvd player, as well as on the Pioneer amp... tried direct, and all formats of dolby and digital on my amp. I also tried to increase db on the center channel on the amp as well.... The problem stays there. The problem seems a lot worse when i Watch translated french versions., even in 5.1 digital, and also seems worse if sound level is low. So when i play loud and in original English soundtrack, its tolerable.. but in normal day to day watching, its always a problem...

The good news is i am moving and am going to re do a new system.. so now is the time to plan ahead...

what do i need to do to solve this..

thanks...

i'll do what i have to...

Have you always had this issue? Did you have or hear this issue with any other speakers?

I have never heard Axiom speakers so I don't want to bash how they actually sound, BUT in theory they have some of the worst designed Center Channel Speakers on the market. Having 3 mids or woofers side by side in the center of the speaker and then a tweeter flanking on each side doesn't seem to theoretically work. I believe that would cause huge comb filering and also very different sound as one moves from left to center to right in the room. So every seat will have a different sound.
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post #11 of 20
3/12/13 at 1:12pm
+1

Most furnished residential rooms are not acoustically "untreated" spaces. There may be some opportunity for improvement through room treatments, but it's naive to assume room treatment without evidence.

I say without evidence, as the first thing to look at is the source, in this case a good center channel. This one is not designed correctly to be a good CC. 2 tweeters flanking 3 mid-woofers is asking for odd acoustic effects across the sound stage. Ideally, you'd like a WTMW with the TM arranged vertically (Axiom VP-160), or a purpose-build MTM CC with a tight mid-woofer C-C spacing, and a very small, very good tweeter that can support a low crossover frequency. (Note that this may not include the other Axiom CCs) Voices should be easy to understand even when played very softly.

Have fun,
Frank
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post #12 of 20
3/12/13 at 7:51pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the constructive comments.. it seems Axiom aren't that great in the center, granted, thats possible.. keep in mind, i have a clean slate right now because i am moving into a new house in 3 months.. so i can do whatever setup i want or almost... First.. if i have a way of measuring echo or resonance of a room it would be helpfull instead of just muffling out everything ... secundo... i probably won't go with axiom..so i am open to any make in the 4000$ range for 5.1 setup... and i'm not sold on Pioneer Elite either.. with a 2000$ budget for amp let's hear suggestions.. But.. don't forget.. it seems the TRANSLATION into french 5.1 is also a big part of the problem...cause in 5.1 English it is a lot less of a problem.. so i guess... i have to up the power on the center channel with the french versions.....

work in progress...
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post #13 of 20
3/12/13 at 8:26pm
I have two HTs at the moment with Pioneer receivers and Axiom speakers as center channels: M2i (not designed as a center channel) in HT2 and VP180 in HT1. Before getting the VP180, I used a VP150 as center in HT1. I have had no problem at all with dialog using these 3 Axiom speakers, so I am very skeptical that Axiom somehow got the design of their centers speakers wrong. The combination I have now in HT1 of center speaker VP180 and Pioneer SC-1522-K receiver is giving me the best separation of dialog from music and effects I have heard.
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post #14 of 20
3/12/13 at 8:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I have two HTs at the moment with Pioneer receivers and Axiom speakers as center channels: M2i (not designed as a center channel) in HT2 and VP180 in HT1. Before getting the VP180, I used a VP150 as center in HT1. I have had no problem at all with dialog using these 3 Axiom speakers, so I am very skeptical that Axiom somehow got the design of their centers speakers wrong. The combination I have now in HT1 of center speaker VP180 and Pioneer SC-1522-K receiver is giving me the best separation of dialog from music and effects I have heard.

OK.. so maybe its mostly the setup, and the damn translations... my girlfreind only speaks french..(wich isn't a very big problem...wink..wink..) but she wants her tv in french...and that IS a big problem...

thanks for the comments.
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post #15 of 20
3/13/13 at 2:48pm
You say that you have calibrated all speaker levels - not to doubt you, but did you calibrate to 75db with a SPL meter? (Just trying to cover all bases here.)

You said that even raising the center speaker level did not help - that seems very odd to me. Are you absolutely sure the center speaker is producing sound at all? When you put your ear to it, what do you hear?
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post #16 of 20
3/13/13 at 2:50pm
One more thing - a lot of times, the translated audio is in a different format - even 2.0. Have you made sure you are in the correct surround mode for the audio source? For 2.0 you should try Dolby PLIIx or similar.
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post #17 of 20
3/13/13 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

OK.. so maybe its mostly the setup, and the damn translations... my girlfreind only speaks french..(wich isn't a very big problem...wink..wink..) but she wants her tv in french...and that IS a big problem...

thanks for the comments.

French women ARE high maintenance. It'll be a lot cheaper in the long run to replace with an English speaking model! rolleyes.gif
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post #18 of 20
3/14/13 at 6:57pm
Thread Starter 
who knows... actually, i have too much invested in the actual model... so i guess i'll change centre speakers...

smile.gif
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post #19 of 20
3/14/13 at 7:26pm
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436476/speaker-clarity-with-dialogue
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post #20 of 20
3/15/13 at 7:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436476/speaker-clarity-with-dialogue

thanks, .. now that is good information...

i probably had bad acoustics...

now i am building a new theater room.. .where do i start to avoid this problem...
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