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Official 2013 Sony W802A series LED TVs (KDL-xxW802A) --- 47" and 55" --- Owner's Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertjo View Post

I think i may have worded that incorrectly..

read this

http://www.sony.co.uk/hub/lcd-television/benefits/article/x-reality-pro

What i meant from upscale is it can take a normal video and process it to make it much clearer and vibrant.

I honestly couldn't tell you if the range you are looking at will be better but in terms of the backlighting/dimming etc yes i expect they will be better and for the price they are going for its fairly good but they are lacking a lot of neat features.

The link i just posted is about the x-reality pro image processing technology the 802a comes with.
Nothing beats a 1080p source recorded at 30-40 MBPS. I prefer not to use additional processing. If the source is less than 1080p or 30-40 MBPS, I'd rather play that source as it is. It helps me differentiate. I know that the refresh rate on the KDL-##R4##A series isn't as high as on the KDL-##W802A series, but I'm not a gamer. I plan on disabling adv. black corrector, adv. contrast, color enhancements, and sound enhancements. So what's going to give me a better result without applying additional processing, the KDL-##W802A with LEDs on the sides or top and bottom (edge LED backlighting), or the KDL-##R4##A with LEDs throughout the panel (direct LED backlighting)?
Edited by Big C - 5/7/13 at 7:50am
post #242 of 1173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaRd2BeAr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 
Note: In an LED set "backlighting" is coming FROM the EDGE LEDs which are tunneling through something called "light guides" to reach the screen itself. This is one of the reasons that it is so difficult for Edge lit screens to gain uniformity and avoid cloudiness.

False, clouding is caused by sections of the lcd matrix not being able to block out light as well as other sections of the lcd matrix and not by the led edge lighting. Thus causing clouding.

Yes, you're correct. I should have not used that word at all. When I said "gain uniformity and avoid cloudiness" I was talking about the lighting uniformity that is more difficult with light coming from the edge.
Edited by tgm1024 - 5/8/13 at 6:16am
post #243 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Yes, you're correct. I should have not used that word at all. When I said "gain uniformity and avoid cloudiness" I was talking about the lighting uniformity that is more difficult with light coming from the edge.

Ah ok, fair enough smile.gif
post #244 of 1173
Well I went to BB this morning and got my first real good look at the the tv that replaced the 2012 HX750. All I will say from what I saw is I am glad I have my HX750!!! I will say though that if you didnt get the chance to buy the HX750 then I guess the W802 is the next best thing.....and thats stretching it.
post #245 of 1173
What is replacement for the HX 850?
post #246 of 1173
Th
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobrinl View Post

What is replacement for the HX 850?

the W900A
post #247 of 1173
For everyone who says they saw it at a store, who took the time to adjust it before forming their opinion? I havent had much luck getting the salespeople to let me play with the settings on their display models to make a real comparison. I feel funny saying this in my first post on an advanced videophile forum, but nobody has mentioned turning off the sales settings while at the store.
Also, if you have 2 members who own the w802a and tell you it does not have any light bleed who cares if LG supplied the edge lighting?
I am getting mine as a replacement for a lemon kds55a2000, sony is being very gracious with their offer, I was worried about many things such as deep blacks, and then edge bleed etc... After reading first hand reports from actual owners though I am mostly satisfied.
Nobody has mentioned motion blur or soap opera effect. These are the 2 problems that have kept me away from LCD TV's until now. Has this been corrected? Can we watch movies without motion blur and without soap opera effect now?
post #248 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by sqeptik View Post

For everyone who says they saw it at a store, who took the time to adjust it before forming their opinion? I havent had much luck getting the salespeople to let me play with the settings on their display models to make a real comparison. I feel funny saying this in my first post on an advanced videophile forum, but nobody has mentioned turning off the sales settings while at the store.
Also, if you have 2 members who own the w802a and tell you it does not have any light bleed who cares if LG supplied the edge lighting?
I am getting mine as a replacement for a lemon kds55a2000, sony is being very gracious with their offer, I was worried about many things such as deep blacks, and then edge bleed etc... After reading first hand reports from actual owners though I am mostly satisfied.
Nobody has mentioned motion blur or soap opera effect. These are the 2 problems that have kept me away from LCD TV's until now. Has this been corrected? Can we watch movies without motion blur and without soap opera effect now?

Hello sqeptik I can confirm on my W805A it's had NO lightbleeding and it can have abit of the opera affect but that's just a setting you can turn off... And for everyone saying the blacks aren't good well that's just silly coz I think they are great.. It is a good tv
post #249 of 1173
Same here no lightbleed, if you want to compare go to your local sony store if your luck to have one they let me have the control and I play with it. Yes it does have very little soap opera effect with the settings it came with but easily fixed turn off some settings. It's a great tv overall.
I got the w550a in the 60' inch first thinking I could fix the color couldn't so I exchange it for the w802a 55' x-reality pro made better.
Edited by erios8035 - 5/8/13 at 12:46pm
post #250 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

Nothing beats a 1080p source recorded at 30-40 MBPS. I prefer not to use additional processing. If the source is less than 1080p or 30-40 MBPS, I'd rather play that source as it is. It helps me differentiate. I know that the refresh rate on the KDL-##R4##A series isn't as high as on the KDL-##W802A series, but I'm not a gamer. I plan on disabling adv. black corrector, adv. contrast, color enhancements, and sound enhancements. So what's going to give me a better result without applying additional processing, the KDL-##W802A with LEDs on the sides or top and bottom (edge LED backlighting), or the KDL-##R4##A with LEDs throughout the panel (direct LED backlighting)?

Whether you care or not, the quality of the image processing capability of a set correlates to how good your content will look when you watch it. The X-Reality Engine is definitely better than the Clear Resolution Enhancer in the low-end R series.
What I don't understand is why you keep talking about the superiority of the dimming capability of the direct-LED backight in the R-series? Direct-LED is not the same as full-array with local dimming, and the backlight in the R series is not separated into zones and cannot perform any sort of local dimming function, The W802 is edge-lit but it seems to employ at least some form of local dimming. The R450/453 is also a 60hz TV while the W802 is 240Hz.
post #251 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Whether you care or not, the quality of the image processing capability of a set correlates to how good your content will look when you watch it. The X-Reality Engine is definitely better than the Clear Resolution Enhancer in the low-end R series.
What I don't understand is why you keep talking about the superiority of the dimming capability of the direct-LED backight in the R-series? Direct-LED is not the same as full-array with local dimming, and the backlight in the R series is not separated into zones and cannot perform any sort of local dimming function, The W802 is edge-lit but it seems to employ at least some form of local dimming. The R450/453 is also a 60hz TV while the W802 is 240Hz.

I completely agree!
post #252 of 1173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C View Post

Nothing beats a 1080p source recorded at 30-40 MBPS. I prefer not to use additional processing. If the source is less than 1080p or 30-40 MBPS, I'd rather play that source as it is. It helps me differentiate. I know that the refresh rate on the KDL-##R4##A series isn't as high as on the KDL-##W802A series, but I'm not a gamer. I plan on disabling adv. black corrector, adv. contrast, color enhancements, and sound enhancements. So what's going to give me a better result without applying additional processing, the KDL-##W802A with LEDs on the sides or top and bottom (edge LED backlighting), or the KDL-##R4##A with LEDs throughout the panel (direct LED backlighting)?

Whether you care or not, the quality of the image processing capability of a set correlates to how good your content will look when you watch it. The X-Reality Engine is definitely better than the Clear Resolution Enhancer in the low-end R series.
What I don't understand is why you keep talking about the superiority of the dimming capability of the direct-LED backight in the R-series? Direct-LED is not the same as full-array with local dimming, and the backlight in the R series is not separated into zones and cannot perform any sort of local dimming function, The W802 is edge-lit but it seems to employ at least some form of local dimming. The R450/453 is also a 60hz TV while the W802 is 240Hz.

fatuglyguy, please see Rogo's explanation for what Direct-LED is. Whether or not there is local dimming employed in any particular set, the configuration does break into zones and can employ local dimming, though in a far more diffuse manner and fewer zones.

The collision and overlapping of meanings in the various terminologies is getting very frustrating, particularly when manufacturers are absolutely intent on inventing their own. But this is a term that seems to be a little more solidly defined than many others.
post #253 of 1173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertjo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Whether you care or not, the quality of the image processing capability of a set correlates to how good your content will look when you watch it. The X-Reality Engine is definitely better than the Clear Resolution Enhancer in the low-end R series.
What I don't understand is why you keep talking about the superiority of the dimming capability of the direct-LED backight in the R-series? Direct-LED is not the same as full-array with local dimming, and the backlight in the R series is not separated into zones and cannot perform any sort of local dimming function, The W802 is edge-lit but it seems to employ at least some form of local dimming. The R450/453 is also a 60hz TV while the W802 is 240Hz.

I completely agree!

See above.

Someday I'm going to start a thread establishing a collection of terminology and the timeline for it. Things are getting nuts, and over FP history the incremental nature of these (almost "feature creep"ing) meanings is a mess.
post #254 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

See above.

Someday I'm going to start a thread establishing a collection of terminology and the timeline for it. Things are getting nuts, and over FP history the incremental nature of these (almost "feature creep"ing) meanings is a mess.

I was agreeing with the x-reality pro statement
post #255 of 1173
I am well aware that a Direct-LED set is fully capable of a local-dimming function, tgm. I'm just saying I've never seen one, dont know any manufacturer that makes one,and I doubt we ever will since D-LED is reserved for low cost sets. Traditionally a local dimming algorithm is reserved for higher-end sets.
post #256 of 1173
How does the 802 handle camera pans with the motion flow turned off? I was told by Sony we dont have the option of reducing the effect only on and off right?
post #257 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by sqeptik View Post

How does the 802 handle camera pans with the motion flow turned off? I was told by Sony we dont have the option of reducing the effect only on and off right?


No there are different settings for it not just "on and off".. I cant remember them all but there is a few.
post #258 of 1173
Good news. Now how to make it look like the old tv so the wife doesnt kill me. Do you think it would fit inside the old sxrd? :-)
post #259 of 1173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sqeptik View Post

Good news. Now how to make it look like the old tv so the wife doesnt kill me. Do you think it would fit inside the old sxrd? :-)

Put rabbit ears on it and say you went with a budget item to save money for makeup and boots.
post #260 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by sqeptik View Post

Good news. Now how to make it look like the old tv so the wife doesnt kill me. Do you think it would fit inside the old sxrd? :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Put rabbit ears on it and say you went with a budget item to save money for makeup and boots.

Or buy a massive handbag and pop the tv in it and just cut out one side to see the screen, Then your both happy :-)
post #261 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

fatuglyguy, please see Rogo's explanation for what Direct-LED is. Whether or not there is local dimming employed in any particular set, the configuration does break into zones and can employ local dimming, though in a far more diffuse manner and fewer zones.

The collision and overlapping of meanings in the various terminologies is getting very frustrating, particularly when manufacturers are absolutely intent on inventing their own. But this is a term that seems to be a little more solidly defined than many others.

I remember we discussed backlighting terminology a while ago.

Found this link which seems to agree with what i was saying.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-kdl-55w900a/4505-6482_7-35561946.html
Quote:
The main reason we liked the HX850 so much was its excellent black-level performance, made possible by the industry's best edge-lit local-dimming scheme. For 2013 the W900A is the only Sony TV to include the same kind of backlight aside from the (sure to be extremely expensive) 4K X900A models.

Aaron
post #262 of 1173
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaRd2BeAr View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

fatuglyguy, please see Rogo's explanation for what Direct-LED is. Whether or not there is local dimming employed in any particular set, the configuration does break into zones and can employ local dimming, though in a far more diffuse manner and fewer zones.

The collision and overlapping of meanings in the various terminologies is getting very frustrating, particularly when manufacturers are absolutely intent on inventing their own. But this is a term that seems to be a little more solidly defined than many others.

I remember we discussed backlighting terminology a while ago.

Found this link which seems to agree with what i was saying.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-kdl-55w900a/4505-6482_7-35561946.html
Quote:
The main reason we liked the HX850 so much was its excellent black-level performance, made possible by the industry's best edge-lit local-dimming scheme. For 2013 the W900A is the only Sony TV to include the same kind of backlight aside from the (sure to be extremely expensive) 4K X900A models.

Aaron

Sure, ok.

I'd still like to know why 1. Sony went out of their way to call it "Dynamic Edge LED Backlight" for the W802 (over the 550), and 2. go out of their way here to previously define it what it means:
http://www.sony-mea.com/support/faq/454304
Quote:
Dynamic Edge LED
Save energy and experience contrast that's off the charts.

Contrast is the difference between a good picture and a great picture. By varying the LED backlight, Sony is able to achieve a contrast so high, it can't be measured. LEDs also give better colours, a thinner profile, and higher energy efficiency when compared with fluorescent tubes. Sony's Dynamic Edge LED Backlight uses local dimming to achieve an infinite dynamic contrast ratio.

I don't think anything's conclusive yet.
post #263 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertjo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatuglyguy View Post

Whether you care or not, the quality of the image processing capability of a set correlates to how good your content will look when you watch it. The X-Reality Engine is definitely better than the Clear Resolution Enhancer in the low-end R series.
What I don't understand is why you keep talking about the superiority of the dimming capability of the direct-LED backight in the R-series? Direct-LED is not the same as full-array with local dimming, and the backlight in the R series is not separated into zones and cannot perform any sort of local dimming function, The W802 is edge-lit but it seems to employ at least some form of local dimming. The R450/453 is also a 60hz TV while the W802 is 240Hz.

I completely agree!

See above.

Someday I'm going to start a thread establishing a collection of terminology and the timeline for it. Things are getting nuts, and over FP history the incremental nature of these (almost "feature creep"ing) meanings is a mess.
I thought the same thing. So I created a backlighting and dimming discussions thread.
Edited by Big C - 5/9/13 at 4:51am
post #264 of 1173
For those interested in this tv Amazon has a promotion going on where you can get the choice of a free PS3 Uncharted bundle or a PSVita for 24 months no interest financing with either the 47" or 55" sony tv FREE!

It's a great deal so i jumped on it and will be expecting the tv and Vita within a week sometime. Hurry though if anybodys interested in this tv because the Amazon offer ends on May 18.
post #265 of 1173
Hey everyone,

For those on the fence about the W802A or the 550A stay away from the 550A. I have a 60 inch getting picked up tomorrow for a 55W802A.

What I dont like:
-The picture isn't vibrant at all no matter what the settings are. Looks dull and just blah.
-I have owned two SONY LCD's and the ports on the back of the 550A are so cheaply done. You need a flash light to figure out what is HDMI 1 and HDMI 2. Its one solid piece of grey plastic.
-I also have a bad case of DSE. See the picture. You can see a huge blob on the left/center and right/center side of the screen. I circled them in red. They are very distracting during hockey games, the ice turns a different shade of white as the camera pans over the spots. Happens with Xbox games also. As I play FiFA the grass gets darker and brighter as the camera pans left to right.
-

What I did like:
-Blacks are amazing. Some of the best I have ever seen on a LCD/LED.
-Even at 120hz this TV performs awesome. Sports look great with all processing off.
-Matte screen is a must in my living room.
-Passive 3D was incredible. I tried The Hobbit and Wreck It Ralph on 3D Blu Ray and it was easy on the eyes and looked amazing.


Anyway fast forward to today the W802A is on its way. Hopefully I will be happy with it. I read up on some of its features and seems like it will be a solid TV. I just wanna watch some hockey!
post #266 of 1173
How are the viewing angles on this TV?
Edited by malcolmp6 - 5/11/13 at 1:47pm
post #267 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfingMatt27 View Post

For those interested in this tv Amazon has a promotion going on where you can get the choice of a free PS3 Uncharted bundle or a PSVita for 24 months no interest financing with either the 47" or 55" sony tv FREE!

It's a great deal so i jumped on it and will be expecting the tv and Vita within a week sometime. Hurry though if anybodys interested in this tv because the Amazon offer ends on May 18.

I am in no way associated with Sony, but I believe credit should be given where its due. This is a promotion from Sony not Amazon. Thanks for the heads up though.
post #268 of 1173
Thread Starter 
Well, I trust JeffreyLyons's assessment above, but as the thread starter, and one of the many of you pounding the earth digging up whatever there was on the 550 vs 802 from before they were out, I felt it balanced to chime in as well in this thread:

So far, FWIW, I very much like 60" 550 I just received.

Quick notes:
  • As feared, the start-to-washout viewing angle isn't any better than any of the high-end LG's have been. But, for reasons I don't understand, the wash-out doesn't progress as badly either. This is compared to the 2012 LG 55LM7600 & 8600 (2 steps and 1 step below their 2012 flagship 9600). I view this as the price to pay for passive 3D currently, because currently passive 3D is (for no spectacularly cogently defined reason supplied as yet) latched to IPS, and this is the IPS quality. Don't give me any propaganda hooey about better viewing angles. smile.gif
  • The passive 3D is beyond clear and really really refreshing. Tested only on FIOS 3D though.
  • The darks out of the box don't squash like the Samsungs are known to. At least the one I test drove, and the others who have been burned by that have commented. I found this surprising, especially without local dimming.
  • 2D clarity is as good as I could possibly test using FIOS. Don't get me started, but at least they seem better than comcast.
  • Bright TV if you follow the normal "turn off the stupid power savings mode" MO, which by the way, shouldn't even be an option on any set. I don't care *how* dark a cave you live in. There are *OTHER* options for that. Perhaps this is an EPA mandated thing?
  • No test for insane motion yet.
  • Out of the box color is fine on some channels and horribly oversaturated on others. So what else is new.

But note, I am not pleased by anything, and I have a long history of computer graphics algorithms, etc., and have been scrutinizing pixels and chroma effects for as long as I can remember. And I'm not "annoyed" by the 60" R550A.
post #269 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post

Well, I trust JeffreyLyons's assessment above, but as the thread starter, and one of the many of you pounding the earth digging up whatever there was on the 550 vs 802 from before they were out, I felt it balanced to chime in as well in this thread:

So far, FWIW, I very much like 60" 550 I just received.

Quick notes:
  • As feared, the start-to-washout viewing angle isn't any better than any of the high-end LG's have been. But, for reasons I don't understand, the wash-out doesn't progress as badly either. This is compared to the 2012 LG 55LM7600 & 8600 (2 steps and 1 step below their 2012 flagship 9600). I view this as the price to pay for passive 3D currently, because currently passive 3D is (for no spectacularly cogently defined reason supplied as yet) latched to IPS, and this is the IPS quality. Don't give me any propaganda hooey about better viewing angles. smile.gif
  • The passive 3D is beyond clear and really really refreshing. Tested only on FIOS 3D though.
  • The darks out of the box don't squash like the Samsungs are known to. At least the one I test drove, and the others who have been burned by that have commented. I found this surprising, especially without local dimming.
  • 2D clarity is as good as I could possibly test using FIOS. Don't get me started, but at least they seem better than comcast.
  • Bright TV if you follow the normal "turn off the stupid power savings mode" MO, which by the way, shouldn't even be an option on any set. I don't care *how* dark a cave you live in. There are *OTHER* options for that. Perhaps this is an EPA mandated thing?
  • No test for insane motion yet.
  • Out of the box color is fine on some channels and horribly oversaturated on others. So what else is new.

But note, I am not pleased by anything, and I have a long history of computer graphics algorithms, etc., and have been scrutinizing pixels and chroma effects for as long as I can remember. And I'm not "annoyed" by the 60" R550A.

Well the W802A came and it blows the 550 out of the water. I didn't even adjust the settings and the picture is beautiful, crisp, and pops! I am watching the islanders and penguins and no issues with DSE. I am gonna spend sometime with the settings tonight. I
will report back later.
post #270 of 1173
Quote:
Originally Posted by sqeptik View Post

I am in no way associated with Sony, but I believe credit should be given where its due. This is a promotion from Sony not Amazon. Thanks for the heads up though.

Well in that case i say thanks to Sony!cool.gif
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