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I am seeing green when it comes to Rec 709

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
I am having a bit of trouble with what I perceive to be a pale green appearance to my UN55D6000 LED LCD set by Samsung.

Running the "Warm 2" color setting, and "Auto" Color space, blu ray movies look pale and green.

I know Scott Wilkinson did a review last year, found here:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-un46d6000-led-lcd-hdtv-ht-labs-measures

He found the default settings, pre-calibration to be quite good on the set, so I assume the set in question isn't wildly off.


He also provided a quick comparison of the "Auto" and "Native" color spaces. When I use the native color space, the pale green look to the blu ray image disappears, and the colors seem natural and correct (although red seems a tad strong).

I see that in the comparison charts in Wilkinson's review, that the "native" color space does not follow rec 709, yet it is not an expanded color gamut. Green appears to be tamed or slightly muted in the color palette, and makes the image look more realistic.

Is this a limitation with the sets ability to produce an accurate picture conforming to Rec 709? Why would the image look pale and greenish?

I have ensured that the blu-rays I have tested with have natural realistic colors and that my blu-ray settings are all correct.

Curious if this issue has come up in calibration, and why the Auto color space, which looks correct in Wilkinson's review seems green in hue?
post #2 of 14
Every set is different, even within the same model and that is why we calibrate, to achieve a picture as close to Rec 709 as the set can provide given it's controls. If you have not calibrated the set using software meter and patterns, it will never be correct.
This article explains why TVs are not accurate out of the box.
http://www.tlvexp.ca/2011/12/why-tvs-are-not-calibrated-from-factory/
post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k View Post

I am having a bit of trouble with what I perceive to be a pale green appearance to my UN55D6000 LED LCD set by Samsung.

Running the "Warm 2" color setting, and "Auto" Color space, blu ray movies look pale and green.

I know Scott Wilkinson did a review last year, found here:

http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-un46d6000-led-lcd-hdtv-ht-labs-measures

He found the default settings, pre-calibration to be quite good on the set, so I assume the set in question isn't wildly off.


He also provided a quick comparison of the "Auto" and "Native" color spaces. When I use the native color space, the pale green look to the blu ray image disappears, and the colors seem natural and correct (although red seems a tad strong).

I see that in the comparison charts in Wilkinson's review, that the "native" color space does not follow rec 709, yet it is not an expanded color gamut. Green appears to be tamed or slightly muted in the color palette, and makes the image look more realistic.

Is this a limitation with the sets ability to produce an accurate picture conforming to Rec 709? Why would the image look pale and greenish?

I have ensured that the blu-rays I have tested with have natural realistic colors and that my blu-ray settings are all correct.

Curious if this issue has come up in calibration, and why the Auto color space, which looks correct in Wilkinson's review seems green in hue?

I wouldn't relate what one reviewer said to pertain to your particular set. The Greyscale on your tv could be way off. I have a pn51d6500 plasma it's a sammy and my greyscale was way too red giving a picture a warm pinkish hue. This tinting disappeared once I calibrated the set. Auto is the closest setting to use without the use of a colormeter but it doesn't mean it's accurate. Native makes green brighter which is what I noticed prior to calibrating my cms also i noted red and get's less brighter and I think cyan is affected as well. Stick with Auto if you don't have a meter to calibrate with.
post #4 of 14
If you are not going to do a gray scale calibration just use whatever setting looks untinted to you. If its native, use native.
Edited by mark haflich - 3/13/13 at 7:45am
post #5 of 14
Sounds like a time for recalibration to get more blue and red,or gamma too bright,auto Colorspace is the correct setting
post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Sounds like a time for recalibration to get more blue and red,or gamma too bright,auto Colorspace is the correct setting


The correct setting in this case is giving incorrect results. The solution is to try other settings and more ideally to calibrate the set.
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The correct setting in this case is giving incorrect results. The solution is to try other settings and more ideally to calibrate the set.

you can't really claim that without comparing measurements of both color space settings (auto and native) with a meter/software... also, it's a well known fact auto is always more accurate than native on the Samsungs and I never seen actual calibration data to the contrary

...if anything, green is usually much worse on native vs. auto





EDIT: here's some data from my Samsung UNEH6030 LED-LCD:

Auto




Native

Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 3/13/13 at 4:26pm
post #8 of 14
My eyes aren't that good, but a few hrs after the sun goes down in a black room I see more green than in the day,which I see more magenta.I would tbink it's Probably different for everyone though.on a properly calibrated set I think you would not see any green in a black room.(this is all with the color control turned to 0)
post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

My eyes aren't that good, but a few hrs after the sun goes down in a black room I see more green than in the day,which I see more magenta.I would tbink it's Probably different for everyone though.on a properly calibrated set I think you would not see any green in a black room.(this is all with the color control turned to 0)

That may be more about perception than physiology.

Daytime ambient light can be coloring the screen, since it's not neutral. But also when it illuminates the area around the TV that will cause your vision to perceive white as a slightly different shade. Much in the same way that when Red Clips on a contrast pattern, and the brightest swatch turns blue, that isn't what you see. What you see is the brightest block stays white, and everything else shifts pink.

Gauging the color of white can't be done without either a known reference or instrumentation.
post #10 of 14
I've added a comparison of the Auto and Native Color Spaces for my particular Samsung LED-LCD... notice the difference in green overall and in cyan hue between the two (both measurements with taken with the same picture settings including color/tint and in Movie pic mode).
post #11 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the information.


To clarify, I am not seeing extreme green tinting as if I had a component cable unplugged or something, but I am dealing with a greenish hue that makes skin tones look pale and ghostly at times. I wouldn't say undersaturated, but definitely not what I would consider correct.

On my set, the native color setting simply makes green less powerful on a color bar pattern, and all the other colors seem to remain the same.

With actual content, this results in faces, sand, white or beige walls all going from having more green in them to appearing to have no green or maybe what would seem like more red. It looks more like the effects of true sunlight. The effects of sunlight on a wall in an indoor scene will go from what seems more pale green (almost how a some compact florescent bulb can cast a greenish shade on a wall) to having a warmer, more reddish hue in Native mode, which looks more like actual sunlight.

To some thing may seem like a rather small change but for me, I can really notice it.
post #12 of 14
Greetings

To determine where your green issues are coming from, recommend that you put up a grayscale step pattern (found on most or all test discs) and look closely at it. Does any part of the "black and white" image look discolored to you ... green? If you see color here, then we know where the issue is. If this pattern looks black and white to you, then your issue lies in the color realm.

regards
post #13 of 14
Nobody has come right out and said this, but...

Your problem is solved by calibration... not by randomly tweaking controls. By calibration, I don't mean "eyeballing" I mean measuring the TV with a meter, calibration software, and reference patterns from a disc player or dedicated pattern generator. The problem you are seeing is exactly why people either hire professional calibrators or purchase calibration hardware and software and spend 100 hours or more learning about calibration.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Nobody has come right out and said this, but...

Your problem is solved by calibration... not by randomly tweaking controls. By calibration, I don't mean "eyeballing" I mean measuring the TV with a meter, calibration software, and reference patterns from a disc player or dedicated pattern generator. The problem you are seeing is exactly why people either hire professional calibrators or purchase calibration hardware and software and spend 100 hours or more learning about calibration.

I am going to back Doug on this. Calibrate with a meter and software as well as using a disk to generate patterns possibly a blu ray player or pattern generator. The key is don't copy settings don't touch Greyscale controls . Reset everything , do the basic user menu settings Contrast, Brightness, Color/Tint , enhancements off , leave greyscale out of it. Leave color space on Auto, Movie Mode warm 2. Enjoy the tv. Otherwise calibrate it properly or hire someone to do it. I know you are trying the easy way out it's not going to make your display more accurate period by copying settings , trying to tweak things by eye.
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