Interest in FTW 21's?

I'll be honest, a high-ish priced 21" is going to be a niche product no matter what.

But damnit, I sure would like one.

I'm willing to believe that there will be a a positive general interest in them though how many will be purchased? It's hard to say. Imho, Mark should have these around. It's a product almost nobody provides. However it's a risk/reward from his PoV and he will have to figure that for himself and if it can be brought back without losing money if it doesn't sell well. What is working in his favor is it doesn't have to be developed. It already existed so bringing it back is just a matter of materials and production.

I say bring em back!

I might be interested in buying a couple. How much do they usually go for? How do they perform compared to 18" drivers from the likes of Dayton and Stereo Integrity?

Is there any high excursion 21s offered currently?

I think before he should worry about the FTW he should ensure that he is able to constantly remain in stock on his other drivers. Right now he only has 1 driver in-stock ( The Phallus ) and 3 drivers out of stock and have been out for quit some time. You should worry about the core of your business before rushing to expand it. The FTW will never be what keeps him in business.

Also what would be different then last time? He discontinued it for a reason, has anything changed?

That being said, I have to agree with Scott there will always be a small market for the 21's but it will always be a small market. However he would be the only one on the market offering these. So, if he could keep a small amount of these in stock without hampering his ability to keep in stock on his other drivers and is able to make a profit then yes he should consider it.

This is just my 2 cents though.

I work in retail and we look at being out of stock as not only lost sales now but it tarnishes your customer image and will cause you lost sales later also. With so many companies going under (av123, Elemental Designs, etc) people are getting weary about ordering from ID companies especially when they are new to this and all they see is he is out of stock on almost everything. I have been lurking around long enough that I know his reputation and trust there will not be an issue with Mark, but that is not the case with everyone else.

I might be interested in another 2 21's.
I'm looking to replace my rear subs with something beefier than 15's...

Man I wanted 4 of those bad last summer!!!

I'm curious, how would you guys say that 8 SI drivers compare to 4 of those? I was thinking about 4 of the FTW's. In the end I'm probably better off with 18's just because 21's are so hard to come by. They just look so damn cool though.

I guess I should have worded my post a bit better.

By that I meant that there are at times high excursion 21's on market but never consistently and most recently it was IST. There was the Exodus but .... well, you know. There are some odd balls like the MTX Jackhammer which I think is a 22" or 24" driver. I can't remember and I don't know where one could buy one. Not sure if I can think of any others but my mind is still booting up. What I mean is to recognize that others have brought a similar product but for equally brief time. It wouldn't be true or fair to other manufacturers for me to have said, 'nobody has offered a product like this'. If that makes sense.

I still think Resonant Engineering should make a 21" version of the XXX. Seriously.

What are the T/s parameters and how much do they cost? It would depend on the cost per performance to me.

Mach5 FTW-21

FS: 19.7hz
Re: 3.2ohm
Qms: 8.56
Qes: .40
Sd: 1640cm2
Vas: 499.9l
Xmax: 34mm
Le: 5mH????<--not sure
Pe: 1,200w


James, I think I remember them costing about $700 or more (shipped) to those of us that live in the US.

I need the BL, spl, and MMS.

Oh, right.... WinISD can't figure those out on it's own. And it calls itself a computer program.

BL: 22.24
MMS: 493.39g
SPL @1w1m: 91.6dB
SPL @2.83 Vrms 1m: 95.5dB

Thanks Scott, yeah I am familiar with all you mentioned, similarly, I wasn't aware of any real offerings ... and just curious as I'm not up on it as I feel others are.

Absolutely, RE should offer up a real bass pump, ie;..a 21" or so behemoth. Seriously.

+1

I would have jumped on 15" model had it been available. No matter when I check out his site its always out of stock or coming soon. Same deal with Obsidian and SI, long wait times and out of stock. I say either keep the stuff instock and keep more than you think you might need till the next build shipment or don't even bother and close up.

His IXL15/18s would probably be his bread and butter money makers with the 21 as a "halo" product. It does no good to have nothing instock.

I'd be interested in a pair, but the OOS status of most of his other drivers makes me nervous. Incriminator Audio offers a 21" sub in one or two of their lines. I've been emailing back & forth with them trying to get a one-off 21" sub built using their Flatlyne (underhung) series. It's been a tedious process.

21's are the niche market of the DIY niche market so the demand is probably minuscule. It would probably be in Marks best interest to do a pre-order sale for these with a specified time limit. If he gets the amount of orders he needs to make the build make sense then he goes ahead, if not then all the deposit money gets refunded and no build.

Like Scott I would like one but then again I want one of every sub, probably just like Scott

I modeled both this FTW-21 vs a RE XXX 18 both in a huge LLT. The RE is about $850. Here is one pair vs one pair:

Bl seams a little low for a 21. Is it the same motor as in the 18 ?

http://www.amazon.com/T9922-22-Audio-6000-Jackhammer-Subwoofer/dp/B001NJ4436

Act quick there are only 3 left!!!! Only $6500 each!!!

I would like to see this available again. Even if it was a pay and wait game.

I didn't really make my-self clear, 21" drivers are a niche market within an already tiny niche market that is DIY. DIY sub builds are mainly in the 15" to 18" range with 18" being the norm right now because of the recent offerings of lower priced 18" subs. Even when there were 21" subs available the sub builds were scarce compared to other sizes. It is a small market within a small market which doesn't seem worth it for Mark to pursue unless he gets a decent amount of pre-orders to cover him-self.

Two of every sub. Two!


Yes, I believe it is the same motor off the UXL18.

If there were enough made so that Infrasonics in Australia also ordered some, I'd have another two. I'd also be willing to put up a deposit so that a number for a batch could be confirmed.

What was I thinking of course it is multiples, I am ashamed I mis-spoke

How do these 21" drivers perform?

Do they perform better than 18" drivers such as the UXL-18 or Dayton HO18 or SI18?

The 21's beat the pants off the HO, SI and UXL. No question about it.

The only drivers that challenge the 21's are the RE-18's and LMS-18 (that I know of at least).
The LMS is more efficient in smaller boxes (23" cubed) and with slightly less THD (and probably power compression). At least IMO.
The RE-18 might be able to out-do both of them in an IB because of its excursion-headroom (you can play it louder without risk of dented metal cones etc).

http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/death-penalty-21-incriminator-audio-21-1500w-death-penalty-series.html

heres another high(ish) xmax 21. cant comment on the sound quality though, I think these are more geared towards SPL burps.

I have been drooling over these bad boys, check out the bl .

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product_simple&pid=286