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16 x 18's in a 1500ft^3 Space - Popalock's Sub Build - Page 16

post #451 of 942
Leave em up until Thursday. I need to see if I want 8 more..Er, I mean need...
post #452 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

No mini yet...

Got a HORRIBLE humm when I hooked it up, so I took it out of the mix for the time being. Just wanted to get all of them up and running for the experience of it.

I eliminated the hum with a ground wire added to RCA wires to the Phoenix input on the mini. Just ground the wire to the back of the avr and run the pos/neg of the RCA to Phoenix +/-
post #453 of 942
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Leave em up until Thursday. I need to see if I want 8 more..Er, I mean need...

Lol...good thinking...because hearing 16 will definitely convince you to be satisfied with 8.

I'm going to go ahead and move the boxes behind the seats for some nearfield fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

I eliminated the hum with a ground wire added to RCA wires to the Phoenix input on the mini. Just ground the wire to the back of the avr and run the pos/neg of the RCA to Phoenix +/-

I've read up a bit on using a ground wire to the AVR, but have yet to see a good pictorial example. wink.gif
post #454 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Lol...good thinking...because hearing 16 will definitely convince you to be satisfied with 8.

I'm going to go ahead and move the boxes behind the seats for some nearfield fun.
I've read up a bit on using a ground wire to the AVR, but have yet to see a good pictorial example. wink.gif

Lol. Ok. I gotcha. RCA has two wires, a positive and negative when you cut the end off the opposite end connected to sub out that will go into Phoenix inputs. There is a little screw on the back of the avr that will say something like chassis ground/sgnal ground. Just use one speaker wire to screw in that then the other end will go into "S" on the Phoenix input. Making it a true balanced xlr input to the mini. You'll have the RCA plugged into the avr and the ground wire screwed into the avr which will complete the balanced output.

I'm still lost on what to do next pertaining to the voltages on the mini and clones though. Think eventually the settings will come to me as the info is scattered throughout bosso's posts. Will just have to grasp it eek.gif
post #455 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Lol. Ok. I gotcha. RCA has two wires, a positive and negative when you cut the end off the opposite end connected to sub out that will go into Phoenix inputs. :

There is still some confusion going on here with RCAs/unbalanced signals and Phoenix terminals looking for balanced audio. Technically, the RCA is NOT providing a positive AND negative signal. It is simply signal and a ground/return line otherwise known as the shield. Only a true balanced signal has a + and a - component to it and those two signals are out of phase with each other by 180 degrees, which can also be called opposite polarity. What does this mean for the wiring? Well, you take the signal wire that has continuity to the TIP of the RCA plug and wire it to the plus+ of the phoenix terminal, then take the wire/wires that are connected to the sleeve of the RCA and stick them on the gnd or S(shield) of the Phoenix terminal. There should be NO loud hum. You may also short the minus of the Phoenix to the gnd of the Phoenix in most cases with a little jumper wire. Correctly wired as such, there should be no need to run another wire from the chassis of the receiver. You should not be using the + and - terminals and then having to add the chassis jumper wire into the mix.

Have you unscrewed the shell of the RCA? The wire soldered to the tip should be the only thing attached to the + of the Phoenix. Also, make sure that they did not solder two wires to the tip of the RCA for some reason. Usually when using balanced cable(2 conductors plus a shield wire) for an RCA, whatever would be used for the - portion of the signal if you had a balanced signal, is tied to the sleeve along with the shield wire.

Greg
post #456 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbegland View Post

There is still some confusion going on here with RCAs/unbalanced signals and Phoenix terminals looking for balanced audio. Technically, the RCA is NOT providing a positive AND negative signal. It is simply signal and a ground/return line otherwise known as the shield. Only a true balanced signal has a + and a - component to it and those two signals are out of phase with each other by 180 degrees, which can also be called opposite polarity. What does this mean for the wiring? Well, you take the signal wire that has continuity to the TIP of the RCA plug and wire it to the plus+ of the phoenix terminal, then take the wire/wires that are connected to the sleeve of the RCA and stick them on the gnd or S(shield) of the Phoenix terminal. There should be NO loud hum. You may also short the minus of the Phoenix to the gnd of the Phoenix in most cases with a little jumper wire. Correctly wired as such, there should be no need to run another wire from the chassis of the receiver. You should not be using the + and - terminals and then having to add the chassis jumper wire into the mix.

Have you unscrewed the shell of the RCA? The wire soldered to the tip should be the only thing attached to the + of the Phoenix. Also, make sure that they did not solder two wires to the tip of the RCA for some reason. Usually when using balanced cable(2 conductors plus a shield wire) for an RCA, whatever would be used for the - portion of the signal if you had a balanced signal, is tied to the sleeve along with the shield wire.

Greg

Thanks for the correction. When I cut the rca wire I had two wires inside plus the insulation. I ran the positive(tip) wire to positive and then the other wire to the negative. Then added the ground.

So I could change the wire I have going to the negative, switch it to the "S", and place a jumper from it to ground and eliminate that ground wire?

I just went by Not's advice with the chassis ground and it worked so passed along what I did.


Is there anything wrong with wiring it the way I did? It sounds and passes measurement tests the same as running just rcas but without any HUM?
post #457 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Thanks for the correction. When I cut the rca wire I had two wires inside plus the insulation. I ran the positive(tip) wire to positive and then the other wire to the negative. Then added the ground.

So I could change the wire I have going to the negative, switch it to the "S", and place a jumper from it to ground and eliminate that ground wire?

I just went by Not's advice with the chassis ground and it worked so passed along what I did.


Is there anything wrong with wiring it the way I did? It sounds and passes measurement tests the same as running just rcas but without any HUM?

If it works, it works, BUT running the jumper from the chassis to the "S" accomplished the same thing as just using the "S" with the shield wire in the first place. The sleeve of the RCA jack on the back of the receiver IS the same potential as the ground post on the receiver. They are connected through the metal of the chassis. Does that make sense?

Not's advice should never be needed if everything is correctly wired from the start and all cables/equipment are functioning correctly.

See the picture but imagine the XLR is your Phoenix terminal. In this case, the - wire is tied to the gnd at the RCA end, which I suspect is how yours is wired, so NO jumper is needed at the balanced end btw - and S. Cool?

Greg
post #458 of 942
Thread Starter 


post #459 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post




That is some SERIOUS nerd porn....
post #460 of 942
That's awesome! You could put the pods emerge scene on loop and get a nice back massage!!
post #461 of 942
G*ddamn that is wicked sweet. eek.gif
post #462 of 942
Sweet! cool.gif
post #463 of 942
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

That's awesome! You could put the pods emerge scene on loop and get a nice back massage!!

So far Beast is the only AVSer that has had a chance to experience the SI's in my space. I'll try to post up a graph of the curve we were rocking out with as soon as I get a chance. Every track we played with the rear subs on = back massage.

We ran some SMS-1 sweeps just to get a general idea what was going on... Basically, in order to replicate similar "subjective" output that I was getting with my LMS-U's I cut the s*it out of all of the midbass and crossed to my subs at 40Hz. I let my RF-7II's run large to cover things above 60ish. Yeah, pretty much a notable null from like 40-60Hz.

I had my SI's digging deep without mid-bass rape... F* flat...lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

G*ddamn that is wicked sweet. eek.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Sweet! cool.gif

Thanks gents!
post #464 of 942
I thought I heard thunder in Ashburn last night but now I'm beginning to think it was just you! tongue.gif

VERY sweet. Definitely no need for butt kickers! Are you in South Riding?
post #465 of 942
I'll post some thoughts on the setup after this weekend but I can certainly say no buttkickers are necessary. I now know that I can find more tactile feel that I want on a concrete slab as well. Good god, it was awesome. Austin stop posting and start driving.
post #466 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

So far Beast is the only AVSer that has had a chance to experience the SI's in my space. I'll try to post up a graph of the curve we were rocking out with as soon as I get a chance. Every track we played with the rear subs on = back massage.

We ran some SMS-1 sweeps just to get a general idea what was going on... Basically, in order to replicate similar "subjective" output that I was getting with my LMS-U's I cut the s*it out of all of the midbass and crossed to my subs at 40Hz. I let my RF-7II's run large to cover things above 60ish. Yeah, pretty much a notable null from like 40-60Hz.

I had my SI's digging deep without mid-bass rape... F* flat...lol

Thanks gents!

This is exactly why I think people should use separate deep bass and mid bass modules.
Let's see after you get some measurements.
post #467 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

This is exactly why I think people should use separate deep bass and mid bass modules.
Let's see after you get some measurements.

*stretches*

Yyyyyyeeeep. biggrin.gif

I'll take it from here, thank you. cool.gif
post #468 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

*stretches*

Yyyyyyeeeep. biggrin.gif

I'll take it from here, thank you. cool.gif

Little less talk and a lot more action is required to take us down the rabbit hole rolleyes.gif

But in all seriousness I can't wait biggrin.gif

Gotta ask one more question. Just think of it as a teaser for those of us that have been following your posts. Are you running any non pro subs behind an AT screen? I'd throw a high Xmax woofer under my T8s n call it quits if wouldn't vibrate the screen. That will never happen I'm afraid. Need high sensitivity mids, mid woofs, woofs, etc... is what I'm hoping.
post #469 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Little less talk and a lot more action is required to take us down the rabbit hole rolleyes.gif

But in all seriousness I can't wait biggrin.gif

Gotta ask one more question. Just think of it as a teaser for those of us that have been following your posts. Are you running any non pro subs behind an AT screen? I'd throw a high Xmax woofer under my T8s n call it quits if wouldn't vibrate the screen. That will never happen I'm afraid. Need high sensitivity mids, mid woofs, woofs, etc... is what I'm hoping.

My long time planned teaser thread should go up in a couple weeks.

Check my AVS profile for pics of my current setup and behind the screen.
post #470 of 942
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

I'll post some thoughts on the setup after this weekend but I can certainly say no buttkickers are necessary. I now know that I can find more tactile feel that I want on a concrete slab as well. Good god, it was awesome. Austin stop posting and start driving.

Multi-tasking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

This is exactly why I think people should use separate deep bass and mid bass modules.
Let's see after you get some measurements.

Response might change a bit when I get a chance to post up measurements because I'll be switching from SMS-1 to the mini for DSP duties. I'm very confident I can replicate a similar curve for testing purposes.

I hope to address my electrical situation very soon as well.

Carp, if your out there listening, I just wanted to let you know that any shadow of a doubt that I "may" have had feeding them almost 2x their RMS rated power from the Clone was erased.

We turned off the nearfield 8 and just kept edging up the front 8 until we started slightly dancing with the Clone clip lights. Tripped my dedicated 20a line 3 times. I've yet to pinpoint a specific instance where I can say that I've found my subs limits.

Even on that scene on MWTIF (1:38:10) that freaked me out a few weeks ago, amp clipped, but I noted no distress from the subs themselves. In fact, I still think my amp clipped because that is one of the scenes that goes down to DC... Still waiting for confirmation on that one though.
Edited by popalock - 4/12/13 at 3:54pm
post #471 of 942
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

My long time planned teaser thread should go up in a couple weeks.

Check my AVS profile for pics of my current setup and behind the screen.

Awwww....yeah...!

I must say, I too have fallen victim to the subtle marking techniques you've employed over the past several months.

tongue.gif

Hype mission accomplished! You gonna lets help you name your thread man? I bet a dedicated thread with a poll just to name your build would get hella input! Seriously, do it!

"Scott's Uber LCR Build" is too predictable.
post #472 of 942
The presence of DC content will never be an issue for anybodies system in any way shape or form. All amplifiers and most electronics have DC blocking and will protect themselves from producing it at the output.

That being said, you might be surprised how much DC content is there in many movies, music and games. wink.gif
post #473 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Awwww....yeah...!

I must say, I too have fallen victim to the subtle marking techniques you've employed over the past several months.

tongue.gif

Hype mission accomplished! You gonna lets help you name your thread man? I bet a dedicated thread with a poll just to name your build would get hella input! Seriously, do it!

"Scott's Uber LCR Build" is too predictable.

Ahahaha! That's 100% what I was going to call it. biggrin.gif

Just fyi for those still waiting.... when I release my teaser thread, installation is imminent. My main build thread will have an FAQ and I'll have anyone submit questions for the FAQ in my teaser thread. Maybe I'll have yall vote on a name for these things.
post #474 of 942
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The presence of DC content will never be an issue for anybodies system in any way shape or form. All amplifiers and most electronics have DC blocking and will protect themselves from producing it at the output.

That being said, you might be surprised how much DC content is there in many movies, music and games. wink.gif

Ok, great info man. Thanks!

That being said, I now have NO idea why my amp clipped during that scene...
post #475 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post



Carp, if your out there listening, I just wanted to let you know that any shadow of a doubt that I "may" have had feeding them almost 2x their RMS rated power from the Clone was erased.

Ha, you know I am buddy. smile.gif

Wow, so you are saying you can't hurt 8 of the SI's with a clone? I may have to end up getting one, problem is with my having d4's doesn't that mean I need the more unreliable model clone?
post #476 of 942
D4 can be configured just the same for either 8ohm or 4ohm. 4+4+4+4=16 plus your other pair of four subs and that is 8ohm or 32ohm. biggrin.gif. Or use both VC's on each speaker and make it 4ohm final load.
post #477 of 942
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ha, you know I am buddy. smile.gif

Wow, so you are saying you can't hurt 8 of the SI's with a clone? I may have to end up getting one, problem is with my having d4's doesn't that mean I need the more unreliable model clone?

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the Clone can't hurt the SI's. I think "I haven't hurt the SI's yet" is a more accurate assessment...
tongue.gif

Yeah, your particular situation would merit the FP10KQ. Everyone's risk threshold is different and when you put it into perspective, all you would gain by picking up a 10KQ would be two additional channels for the mini to work it's magic and realistically 1-3db more headroom. Meh, stick with the CV. Just wanted to let you know that the SI's can take some real punishment.
post #478 of 942
Awesome bro!!!!!
post #479 of 942
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Tripped my dedicated 20a line 3 times.

Sounds like one clone per 4 SI's would be more ideal (not amp limited).

I have mine on a 30amp breaker, hasn't popped yet. Not sure if that is even possible, I'll have to meter it when my 3 LMS's get here and see how many amps it goes up to. Something over 20 by the sounds of it tongue.gif
post #480 of 942
Lock, I'm still laughing my head off at your comments at dinner...I "think" the 16 18s will do it for me once I'm not electrically limited biggrin.gif
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