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Martin Logan Descent i or Seaton Submersive HP?

post #1 of 19
3/14/13 at 5:49am
Thread Starter 
I've been able to score a Martin Logan Descent i at the same price as a new Seaton Submersive and am having trouble deciding between the two.

I live in the Washington DC metro area, but have not been able to actually hear either of the two and am nervous about shelling out $2400+ for a sub without hearing it first.

I want it mainly for "earth shattering" (but accurate) home theater.

I currently own a Cambridge Soundworks Newton P300HD (about $800) that keeps bottoming out.

I also own a pair Martin Logan Motion 40's, Motion 30 center, and Motion 4 surrounds.

They are running thorugh a Yamaha RX-A3020 Aventage receiver.

My home theater is in a 14 x 16 room with 10-foot ceiling. Three walls closed, one wall open to a kitchen/morning room.

I am anxiously awaiting ANY thoughts, insights or suggestions!!!!

Please help!

Thanks!
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post #2 of 19
3/14/13 at 9:47am
If you can make the size of the SubM work, I'd choose the Seaton. Unless you want to match your sub with your MLs, my vote is for the SubM HP.
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post #3 of 19
3/14/13 at 10:27am
Thread Starter 
I do like the look the Descent i and it would match my Logan Motion's.

BUT...I want wall shaking, floor rattling bass for my movies!

Will the Descent off ANY of that? Or is it primarily better suited to movies?

I wish I could demo a Submersive and a Descent side by side...

Would a Descent i at LEAST be a significant upgrade over my Cambridge Soundworks Newton P300HD?

Thanks!
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post #4 of 19
3/14/13 at 10:34am
I can't seem to find any actual measurements on the Descent sub but from just looking at the specs I honestly do think there's anyway this sub will even come close to a SubM HPs performance. I don't even think the Descent will out perform my own PSA XS30 sub which I would consider a step down from a SubM HP.
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post #5 of 19
3/14/13 at 10:49am
I have read that the decent had similar output to a SVS PB2-plus.
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post #6 of 19
3/14/13 at 11:04am
If that's the case I stand by what I said. I would personally take my XS30 over a PB12+ and there's no way given the choice I would take my XS30 over a SubMersive HP if price wasn't the issue. The SubM is just on another level, meaning the Descent just won't compete with the performance and output of the SubM IMO.
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post #7 of 19
3/14/13 at 11:11am
I have an I Depth, the little brother of the Descent. It is a very, very musical Sub and has a lot of adjustments to tailor the sound. It is pretty good for movies, the Descent should be significantly better. I don't think i am going out on a limb here saying that it should definitely be a significant step up from your Cambridge Soundworks Newton P300HD. I think the Seaton will be better for movies, but it is much bigger, not as attractive to look at (IMO). If the Descent is as good as an SVS PB2-plus, then I think you will like what you hear and will have significant output (just less than the Seaton).

What finish Descent are you thinking about?
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post #8 of 19
3/14/13 at 11:15am
These are older quotes, but should help...
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ultra 150 pilot View Post

I just ordered two of these badboys to replace my twin martin logan decents. Im ready to rumble!!

In a 2300 cu.ft. room you most certainly will be shakin' things up!

The Descent is/was a very nice sounding subwoofer, albeit lower on the output scale by modern or more recent standards/expectations. I look forward to your impressions, and doubly so if you have BobL out to re-optimize the system

http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/450#post_13336556

Also, ask Craig John...he's had the Descent and currently has 3 SubM HPs. He's very knowledgeable and I'm sure he'd be willing to give you his impressions.
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

Wow, that's heavy ! Tell me about your experiences please. What subs did you listen to (don't tell me SVS lol !) before buying the submersives ? Thanks.

My first sub was a Mirage. Coincidentally, it was a "dual-opposed" design like the Submersive. Great little sub. Then I moved up to an Earthquake Supernova MKV-15. From that I moved to a pair of JL Audio F112's. Finally, I upgraded to a pair of Submersives, and then I added a third.

I've also heard the Velodyne DD-18, the Martin Logan Descent, the Klipsch THX Ultra2 system, some M&K subs, several Hsu subs, and several SVS subs.

The Submersives are definitely the finest subs I've ever heard. If you go back a few pages in this thread, you'll see my in-room graphs, and my listening impressions with the new HP 2,400 watt amps. The original amps were excellent... the new HP amps and the new DSP program take the Submersives to new and unprecedented levels.

The new amps are not available in a 240 volt configuration. If you're interested in a Submersive, and you live in a country with 240 volts AC, you'll only be able to get the previous 1,000 watt amp. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Craig

http://www.avsforum.com/t/759877/seaton-sound-submersive1/4740#post_19550230
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post #9 of 19
3/14/13 at 11:28am
SubM HP by a mile. No doubt.
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post #10 of 19
3/14/13 at 12:15pm
Thread Starter 
How hard is it to set up a Seaton? I'm a bass newbie smile.gif

How hard is placement? I will need to place the Seaton in the front of my room, either in a corner or between the TV and speaker...
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post #11 of 19
3/14/13 at 12:37pm
shouldn't be to hard at all, and you could always call Mark or pm him and he'll help you out. The SubMersive is considered a very musical sub too. It really is in a entirely different league then a Descent IMO.
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post #12 of 19
3/14/13 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

If that's the case I stand by what I said. I would personally take my XS30 over a PB12+ and there's no way given the choice I would take my XS30 over a SubMersive HP if price wasn't the issue. The SubM is just on another level, meaning the Descent just won't compete with the performance and output of the SubM IMO.

Not the PB12+, the plus two with two 12's. They don't sell it anymore. Anyways, The Seaton for sure, I owned the PB2-plus and also a CHT 18.2 and they are not close, even my dual 13's from eD is more powerful than the svs.
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post #13 of 19
3/15/13 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slagathor12 View Post

How hard is it to set up a Seaton? I'm a bass newbie smile.gif

How hard is placement? I will need to place the Seaton in the front of my room, either in a corner or between the TV and speaker...
I had a Descent in my home for about a week. It is a GREAT subwoofer and, if I had 3 of them, I'm sure they would compare pretty well to my 3 Submersives. They use a "balanced force" design that eliminates cabinet resonance in a very similar way to the "dual opposed" SubM's. They don't have quite the maximum output capability or the deep extension of the SubM's, (especially if you use the deeper extension mode of Pgm2), but some of that could be compensated with multiples. They have excellent SQ, on par with the SubM's and JL's.

Having said that, I would take a single SubM HP over an ML Descent all day, every day. The only advantage of the Descent over the SubM is it's aesthetics. If that is important to you, then a Descent will be a really good sub for you; just not as good as a SubM.

Placement of the SubM's is no harder than any other sub. You can place them in corners as long as you leave a few inches of "breathing space" between the drivers and the wall. Of course, that assume that corner placement is better than any other placement. If you decide on the SubM, head over to the SubM thread and we'll help you optimize it.

Craig
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post #14 of 19
3/15/13 at 10:29am
I have the SubM HP matched up with a Martinlogan 7.1 system, and it just sings. I don't think you'll be disappointed. I have to add a 2nd SubM soon to level things out, as the sound from the sub is a bit localized playing midbass.
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post #15 of 19
3/15/13 at 1:43pm
I think the SubM is a good looking sub.
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post #16 of 19
3/15/13 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I think the SubM is a good looking sub.
Yeah, but the SubM is just a plain box. The finishes can be exceptional, but it's still just a box. My SubM's are black, and they pretty much disappear in my room and I'm OK with that. I only care about how they sound.

OTOH, the ML Descent is a very cool looking sub:



I personally would NOT trade the aesthetics for the sound, but some people might.

Craig
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post #17 of 19
3/15/13 at 4:56pm
Looks like a humidifier box to me tongue.gif
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post #18 of 19
3/16/13 at 1:25am
Yeah, Craig your knowledge and contributions are one I've learned much from and I will always be paying attention to. Your technical contributions are excellent, but get that humidifier away from my family room smile.gif
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post #19 of 19
3/16/13 at 1:26am
SubM by two miles now that I've seen the lesser sub.
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