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My Man Cave - Read a lot but still need help

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,

So I'm building my dedicated theater in one of my bedrooms and well, I have read and read quite a bit on these forums about materials, construction techniques, sound proofing, etc etc but since I'm a total noob to this I am still confused. Another big factor is the materials I can get here in Panama and also the language/translation issues with the people who are doing the work.

I guess what I really want to confirm at this stage is if the material and setup I'm planning on using is optimal (of course with my budget in mind) and works or if I'm doing something that will be a total waste.

I am attaching a photo of the design my brother drew up based on what I told him I wanted. It's basically 2x4 wood for the base/support with 3/4" plywood as a wall. We don't have that pink stuff here in Panama so I was thinking of using the fiberglass boards that come already wrapped with aluminum on top (like this one http://goo.gl/SrvV6 or this one http://goo.gl/NozMb). Then on top of that I was going to put gypsum board for proofing and even maybe cover up to a little above ear level with GOM which I'd have to import. Does this sound right? Or is it not going to work? Overkill?

My walls are brick/concrete walls and I don't have a problem with sound getting out or bothering the floors above or below (I already used to watch movies here when it was a bedroom with the same setup I'm going to use and cracking the volume) but of course I don't mind making that even better. What I'm trying to really achieve I guess is to have good audio quality inside and proof it from outside noise... trying to get the DBs low as possible which I think this setup works for that apart from having new doors installed with the adequate sound proofing and seals.

So yeah, any guidance, opinions, critics, or just saying Im doing this totally wrong is welcome. I've been going back and forth on it and I just cant figure it out on my own due to my lack of knowledge on this and any type of home building DIY frown.gif




Ignore TV on this one, I've decided to go with a BenQ and AT screen.
post #2 of 14
It's not clear how the room is currently built, so I have trouble knowing what changes you're making, but here's some things that look like you might be missing.

When you fire up the system, the sound will cause the walls to vibrate. The vibrating walls will cause the rest of the house to vibrate. The vibrations in other parts of the hose turn the walls into speakers - this is one way to think of sound moving through your house. This works both ways - so if a refrigerator or A/C unit is vibrating in one part of the house, the rest of the house is vibrating as well - and the walls in your theater become speakers for you to listen to you A/C. Another way to look at sound into and out of your theater is to think of your theater as an aquarium. The sound will leak out anywhere water would - windows, doors, ventilation ducts, electrical outlets. Of course, this works the other way as well - any opening is a way for outside sound to get in.

Looking at your diagram, I don't understand how the walls near the screen are built, and how that relates to the ceiling or floor - why aren't they planned to be like the side walls? The way the walls come together at joints can be a problem for containing sound. The way the walls and ceiling connect to other parts of the structure is another way you can change the movement of sound through the house. What can you tell us about these aspects of the design?
post #3 of 14
"Looking at your diagram, I don't understand how the walls near the screen are built, and how that relates to the ceiling or floor - why aren't they planned to be like the side walls? The way the walls come together at joints can be a problem for containing sound. The way the walls and ceiling connect to other parts of the structure is another way you can change the movement of sound through the house. What can you tell us about these aspects of the design?"

Hey Fred................I am the brother.
Let me try to make things clearer so that we could all make this project work.

In both floor plans, you can see the shape of the room. All walls that area visible here are made of clay bricks with concrete plaster on both sides. All of these walls will stay in their place and we will be applying a new wall, to put it simple, on top of the one already built.
This new wall will be made of, wooden studs 2"x4", separated at 24" or less, depends on the length of the wall. On top of that we will be applying a layer of plywood boards 3/4" thick. In between the plywood board and the existing wall, we will put some pink stuff as filling or fiber glass boards.
After this, we are thinking of applying some gypsum boards 1/4" all the way from ground level to ear level, to help buffer the sound. Finally we will add the fabric to give it the nice black look to it and help the sound buffering.
(Not sure that buffer is the correct term. jejejejejeje) smile.gif

The roof will be handled the same way, wooden studs 2"x4", spaced out about 12", with the plywood boards 1/2" and fabric applied to it. The stage area will be handled the same way, but we are adding the stage once we get started with the walls and roof.

Basically, the joints are plywood with plywood. We are thinking of filling the joints with some type of elastomeric product that will help seal off the joints on the walls and roof.

Hope this helps to clear things. biggrin.gif
post #4 of 14
JOINTS: All joints will be plywood boards with plywood boards, which we are thinking of sealing off with an elastomeric product. (Rubber type sealant, normally used to seal off window corners and such)
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, hopefully someone can provide some more input on this but I am posting another image my brother just finished with the soffit view.

Regarding the original design, since I already have walls that block noise going out of the theatre and I have space constraints, we are going with 2x2 instead of 2x4 so I can get some extra inches saved and I think it was just overkill with that thickness stuffed with roxul or similar.

Oh and on the image below, the walls at the far end that will basically mark where I will start my screen construction will also be worked on with 2x2 on top, just that since we havent decided on the stage construction, it was left like that.


Edited by Dj_Frost - 3/20/13 at 8:43am
post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
Some more views







post #7 of 14
I don't know enough about the building codes and so on in Panama, but I would be interested in using larger lumber for the walls and ceiling. If you are trying to minimize the sound transmitted through the structure, the best thing you can do is make it heavier. That means the best is several layers of wood or gypsum - I will use three in my theater - one wood and two gypsum. The second thing to do is to disconnect the room from the rest of the house. You can build walls that don't touch the brick walls, and then build a ceiling on top of the new wooden walls. If this in not possible, you can find small rubber and metal clips - like these http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-products/soundproofing-clips/ - that can allow you to connect the structures, like the ceiling to the floor above, without transmitting as much sound. The fiberglass inside the walls and ceiling will help, but these first two things are the most important. Another thing that is very important is making no holes through the wall. Places where you cut open the wall to install lights or air vents should be very carefully sealed. The acoustic caulk can be an important part of this process, but so can putty pads - depending on what exactly you do. http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-products/soundproofing-accessories/putty-pads/

I know you want the room to be as large as possible, and that's fine, but if soundproofing is a goal, you should make it a few inches smaller so that the walls can be disconnected and thick and heavy.

I hope that helps,

Fred
post #8 of 14
Hey Fred,

We are not so worried in minimizing the sound transmitted through the walls if this doesn't have an effect over the sound quality. Since the building is made up of concrete walls and slabs and we only have 1 neighbor across a hall, it won't affect us if sound is heard from outside the room. But we are really interested in having the best sound quality inside the room, which brings me to the next set of questions.
Taking this into account, do your recommendations stick on separating the new wall structure from the existing one?
What type of sealant could we use in the joints for the walls and ceiling of the new structure?

Regards,

JDCM
post #9 of 14
Let's be clear about the different things we may be talking about. There are two different reasons to talk about sound - one is what I thought was most important - keeping sound from moving through the walls. We might call this soundproofing, or sound isolation. The other thing about sound is the quality of the sound environment inside the room - this is related to isolation, because sounds from outside can spoil the sound inside the room. But generally, we deal with the acoustic quality of the room by absorbing, reflecting, and diffusing the sound as it moves within the theater space.

My first recommendation is to make sure the theater is a quiet as possible.

The walls and ceiling construction will have only a very small impact on the sound quality of the room. If you are serious about making the acoustics as good as possible, the only way to know what to do before you build and listen and measure it is to have a professional model it and determine what exactly you should do. For most of us here, we instead measure the frequency response and the decay and impulse response after we have the room built, and use that information to adjust the positions of the speakers, the EQ in the processor, and to help us figure out where to put any absorbers, or reflectors, or diffusors or bass traps. Concrete walls will reflect slightly more sound than drywall alone, but no wall surface will remove the need for these optimization processes. If you examine closely enough, you will find small differences in the acoustic performance of every wall construction type or technique - stud spacing, drywall weight, number of screws, etc - but in my opinion the difference is not important.

With that said, it doesn't seem to me to matter how you build the walls, as long as the room is as quiet as you need. If you want to seal the corners with something better than drywall mud, acoustic sealant is probably the best choice. http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-products/soundproofing-accessories/silenseal-acoustical-sealant/ you can get it lots of places, but probably not local. If not that, a caulk that will not harden is the next best choice. I used some of this: http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=4

You can get opinions from other people that might be different, but this is my opinion.
post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Hey Fred,

Your first recommendation is actually what I wish to do (make the room as quiet as possible) and accomplish.

As my brother said, the sound that is heard from outside the room is not that important to me since I dont have anyone to complain about it and also because I have already used the room (when it was a bedroom) to watch movies with the volume cranked up and it isnt a problem.

Now, I assume that this goes hand in hand with how quiet the inside of the room is. The less sound that travels from the inside out will also mean the less sound will get into the room hence making it quieter, right?
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj_Frost View Post

The less sound that travels from the inside out will also mean the less sound will get into the room hence making it quieter, right?
exactly.
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
Would any of these work as an alternative to acoustic sealant?





post #13 of 14
Those all (except the adhesive) look good to me.
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Found some others



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