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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 45

post #1321 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

Yeah, I am confused as well then because when I see it (and by the sounds of it other people as well) it is happening often and it is clearly noticeable.

So I do think for whatever reason those calibrated sets are just not having the issue the same way (or even at all) others are.

That one clip needs to be compared with LED/LCD and then we will know for sure.

It is clear something IS going on so at that point the only other explanation would be some people are more prone to actually seeing these fluctuations than others (and clearly some people don't care).

This is a possiblilty as well, there are so many factors involved though, that we may never get down to the nitty gritty. I dont think anyone is denying that it happens, the amount and severity seem to differ however on top of peoples sensitivity to it.....I trully do feel for you if you are hyper sensitive to this. as I know it will be a deal breaker for you and others that are sensitive to the issue. Hopefully this can be fixed via firmware or other settings and will make things more manageable...
post #1322 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlconnell View Post

Sure, I want to preface that I only saw the effect on the 16-17 setting. Setting the cell light at 18 or above, or 15 or below eliminated the effect. I have mine set at 15, movie mode, warm 2, gamma -1, sharpness to 5, color space to auto, hdmi black level to low, film mode to auto 2, and black optimizer to dark room. Everything else is off including Eco settings.

I hope the perception of this doesn't get out of control as IMHO, this in no way effects the overall quality of the picture or overall viewing experience of this tv. I am amazed every time I sit down to watch it!!

Thanks Karl, I just wanted to see what your settings were...and I agree. smile.gif
post #1323 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlconnell View Post

Sure, I want to preface that I only saw the effect on the 16-17 setting. Setting the cell light at 18 or above, or 15 or below eliminated the effect. I have mine set at 15, movie mode, warm 2, gamma -1, sharpness to 5, color space to auto, hdmi black level to low, film mode to auto 2, and black optimizer to dark room. Everything else is off including Eco settings.

I hope the perception of this doesn't get out of control as IMHO, this in no way effects the overall quality of the picture or overall viewing experience of this tv. I am amazed every time I sit down to watch it!!

This matches someones earlier report (was it you?) in either this thread or the other one that was goign on that once the Cell Light was not 16 or 17 the effect was greatly diminished......
post #1324 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

This matches someones earlier report (was it you?) in either this thread or the other one that was goign on that once the Cell Light was not 16 or 17 the effect was greatly diminished......

That was not me but I recall seeing that post somewhere in the thread as well...not just diminished but not visible at all for me.
post #1325 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by karlconnell View Post

That was not me but I recall seeing that post somewhere in the thread as well...

Karl thanks, I knew I saw it posted before, so I wasnt sure smile.gif
post #1326 of 11459
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

could not begin to understand why of the many many hockey clips from many different games and camera angles, only ONE clip showed this effect. We were genuinely confused why this should be the case.
Very simple, looking for an issue to hard ? And what if you did find it, what would be done? Manufacturers of cars actually know that a glitch may cause a death, however if the recall amount is higher than the liabilities they will not recall the cars, sad to say. Do you think a manufacturer is going to fix a glitch in a few tv's ? I wish they would of course, but what do you really think ? This Samsung is another product made by a human on planet earth. Except it for what it is............

---The Elite LED, had a Cyan issue, many said they reported there finding to many higher ups, that model ended with this same issue. We heard for months and months how this person or that person was working so hard with a manufacturer to fix an issue. It comes down to $$$ in the end. If it is a simple fix, wam, done. If not the odds are it will not be fixed. It is nice to point things out, to try to make things better. It is also nice to say I have a great product, and I can live with a few issues as it is not perfect wink.gif

Since no one else will say it, I will >>>>>>> We have confirmed glitch # 1 with the Samsung F8500. Brightness pops. In the end I applaud Samsung, you made a fine TV sir !!

....
Edited by Cleveland Plasma - 4/5/13 at 8:50pm
post #1327 of 11459
I just wanted to post this again, as I had mentioned it briefly in the ST60 thread. Believe the hype! This is a phenomenal panel. I had some time to evaluate the 518500 and a VT50 along with a GT50- each of which were playing a loop of the opening IMAX scene of The Dark Knight. Although none of the sets were calibrated, they were not in torch mode settings and this is some reference blu ray that was on display.

Samsung has always had a look to their image that doesn't go with calibration numbers. The F8500 was producing a clearer and brighter image with much more detail and a clean look that was close to lcd without looking artificial.

Based on the 64F8500 measuring slightly higher in mll than the 60" model, I'm guessing that the 51" set may indeed be the blackest of the bunch, similar in fashion to the last generation Pioneer Kuros. This could be due to stability issues with the black optimizer controls, but I guess we'll know soon enough when some measurements take place.

The filter on this set is more aggressive than anything I've ever seen. Even from 7-8 feet away and looking down 2-3 feet to the panel, the filter still dims the image somewhat. To be fair, there is still vertical dimming going on with the ST60, as well. This is basically a non issue, unless you're watching from extreme vertical viewing angles.

Anyway, impressive, impressive set. It seems like you really can't go wrong this year with plasma. Hopefully this is a taste of even greater things next year, and a viable alternative until OLED is ready for primetime.
post #1328 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Well, let me ask you this since you haven't confirmed it. Is the YouTube video that Dan posted accurately depicting what you saw? In my experience, it depicted it with 100% accuracy. I was actually shocked how he got the same 2 step ramp up as I saw. But again, why only this game among tons of games we watched?

But I just want to confirm wattheF that this is what you're talking about.

Yes, that captures it but it is much worse and more noticeable in person (in my experience).
post #1329 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Very simple, looking for an issue to hard ? And what if you did find it, what would be done? Manufacturers of cars actually know that a glitch may cause a death, however if the recall amount is higher than the liabilities they will not recall the cars, sad to say. Do you think a manufacturer is going to fix a glitch in a few tv's ? I wish they would of course, but what do you really think ? This Samsung is another product made by a human on planet earth. Except it for what it is, or find another product.

Since no one else will say it, I will >>>>>>> We have confirmed glitch # 1 with the Samsung F8500. Brightness pops.

oh, no doubt
post #1330 of 11459
A question for owners or people who've spent some time watching tv content on the f8500

From the spec sheet

"Cinema Smooth PlusTM
Cinema smooth adjusts the frame rate of the panel for displaying 24fps source movies on Blu-ray Disc® , dedicated 24p cable and satellite channels at this native frame rate. The resulting video characteristic is a smoother and more natural film like experience. Content originating in 24p but delivered to
to the TV at 30fps or 60 fps may have inherent motion judder, Samsung’s Motion Judder Canceller smooths video content affected by poor processing.
"

Does this actually work on tv content? Since almost all tv broadcasts are 1080i30 or 720p60, movies and tv shows shot on film get frame rate converted at the source by the channel provider (and they often do a lousy job of it). Samsung seems to be implying MJC can undo the damage. True?

Thanks.
post #1331 of 11459
It does, and it works well but to me a bit "too well," creating a bit if a soap opera effect and some blurring during fast movement. But it's smooth as silk. I eventually turned it off, as a personal preference. I still run Film mode auto 1, during TV, and if course CS during Blu-ray at 24fps.
post #1332 of 11459
Just a note regarding plasma judder...it reduces dramatically as the panel ages. Some say you get used to it, but I've learned by having so many different plasma's over the years, it's much more pronounced in the beginning. Whenever I get a new one, I notice it again. It's a non-issue after a 100 hours or so, at least in my experience. My VT50 had some serious judder fresh out of the box, now it's virtually impossible to see anything resembling judder. If that's your main concern, don't worry about it...it's really a non-issue. You'll see what I mean in a very short period of time : )

I did not have the same experience with the one and only LED panel I've owned. The motion blur was horrible in the beginning and it's still the same today...years later. Never again...
post #1333 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


On another note this is funny and some of you will appreciate this. I showed Dan's YouTube clip to my wife and showed her where in the scene to look for the brightening. It took her 3 times to see it (just like Wendy at VE). When she finally saw it, she left the room shaking her head calling back "ANAL, ANAL!!". I had to laugh. I think most women think we're nuts with this stuff. They're right. biggrin.gif

Ha Ha...I love it. I had 4 people over tonight and they all loved the TV. I showed a friend of mine who has the D8000 the brightness pop and he said I was crazy. He is not a video enthusiast like us I guess.
post #1334 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

speaking of 'anal' i seem to be more bothered by the fact that my tv doesn't sit flush on its metal stand!! there is about an 1/8" or so gap between it and tv... is this normal? no, not me wink.gif the gap?

I have mine sitting on a BDI stand and no rocking at all. Not sure if you set it up but when BB came to setup my TV this morning there are two metal brackets they are supposed to screw into the stand with 4 screws. The installer almost only used 2 until I said something. Maybe something to check if you can.

The other thing is your stand may not be level on the top. The center may be bowed in from a previous TV.
Edited by Dan0780 - 4/6/13 at 5:29am
post #1335 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan0780 View Post

I have mine sitting on a BDI stand and no rocking at all. Not sure if you set it up but when BB came to setup my TV this morning there are two metal brackets they are supposed to screw into the stand with 4 screws. The installer almost only used 4 until I said something. Maybe something to check if you can.

The other thing is your stand may not be level on the top. The center may be bowed in from a previous TV.

yeah understand all that..thank you! what i'm talking about is between the actual stand and tv, not what it all sits on. all advertised pics (lots on amazon in description area) of tv look like tv is tightly flush with stand except the obvious bowing out part. but on mine, each end/sides of tv then small space/gap between stand. all the screws used and metal brackets fit tightly so i assume i put together correctly.... tho at first i too almost missed the two extra screws (4total) into each bracket thing to the stand! figured that out when there were only two screw holes attaching each bracket into panel... mostly just trying to be amusing bout being bothered by it wink.gifwink.gif but curious nonetheless!
Edited by ljmart - 4/6/13 at 12:58am
post #1336 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by schnura View Post

Two weeks ago I could not see the brightness fluctuation but now I have seen it once at VE. Robert demonstrated it to me on a NHL video that he saved on the store's DIRECTV DVR. Honestly, I simply shocked that anyone can be bothered by this when watching hockey. The camera flashing is so more obnoxious and annoying how can anyone even notice this extremely minor change in brightness.


Further, it happen very infrequently, but the camera flashing is very frequent. This is a beautiful high performance TV and to pick on this very minor brightness fluctuation during ice hockey while the very frequent and obnoxious camera flashing is happening just does not add up to make any sense. I enjoy ice hockey and would be happy watching it on the F8500 in spite of the annoying camera flashing as I assume most hockey fans do. I love the F8500's ability to produce the bright image that realistic ice hockey viewing demands. BTW, Robert demonstrated the same NHL video clip on the 65" VT50 and it was very dim in comparison and flashing at the same interval.

The moral of this story is... If you don't want brightness fluctuations, but somehow can stand the frequent and continues very bright camera flashing.... buy a good LED TV and be sure not to sit off axes.

+1
Exactly what I thought while watching the video several times.
I do not watch hockey but even if I did this so called pop looks non existent to me, I would not even notice it. I was thinking it was such a disaster while reading about it post after post.

Now we know about it, so please guys move on. No more talks about hockey. This is getting really boring
post #1337 of 11459
Many thanks for answering,



Didn't know this was due to the Louvre filter, but understandle once you explained.

Yes, I like as well to stand up, lay down or just move around while watching TV at times and sometimes there isn't as much space on my couch when friends are entering..


Haven't checked it from below on the other hand but I will check. Most definitely I will buy a new TV-cabinet with a more approriate height.

When I stand further back from the TV, it seems indeed a bit less with more accurate colors, however, from close buy it is unwatchable and doesn't show the TV's true capabilities.
post #1338 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

+1
Exactly what I thought while watching the video several times.
I do not watch hockey but even if I did this so called pop looks non existent to me, I would not even notice it. I was thinking it was such a disaster while reading about it post after post.

Now we know about it, so please guys move on. No more talks about hockey. This is getting really boring

+100

I watch Hockey occasionally and don't see brightness pops as described the folks here that are adamant about it. Now, granted I may not be as hyper-sensitive to it as others have found, but I by no means would attribute it as a fatal flaw when it a small minority of posters who are adamant about it and the rest either see very little or none of the effect.
post #1339 of 11459
Hi,

I would like to talk about something other than brightness pops for a moment. I need some buying advice. Let me give you a short introduction to my current situation and where I want to go:

I've owned exactly one Plasma Panel in my life, I bought it back in 2006 or 2007 and yes, I still use it as my main TV. It's a Panasonic TH-50PZ700. I want to replace this TV and the only reason for that is that I want a larger TV. I always believed that plasma is the way to go and I already ordered the 64F8500. I am in Germany, the set won't be delivered before May. So in the meantime I stumbeled across a couple of reviews about the new Samsung LED F8000, and the reviews are quite good. Actually, even the black level is supposed to be very good for a LED. The prospect of having a 75 inch TV at my home is *very* tempting, to say the least.

What do you guys think? Should I go with a smaller 64 Plasma or a 75 inch LED? Look at my background, I am used to a very old Plasma TV and I am guessing any current high end TV will blow me away, no matter what screen tech I go with.

On the other hand, when I look at the comparison charts at http://www.displaywars.com/ then the step up from 50 inch (what I currently own) to 64 inch is much more dramatic then the difference between 64 inch and 75 inch.

I am really undecided right now.
post #1340 of 11459
Plasma fluctuating brightness
post #1341 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

I just wanted to post this again, as I had mentioned it briefly in the ST60 thread. Believe the hype! This is a phenomenal panel. I had some time to evaluate the 518500 and a VT50 along with a GT50- each of which were playing a loop of the opening IMAX scene of The Dark Knight. Although none of the sets were calibrated, they were not in torch mode settings and this is some reference blu ray that was on display.

Samsung has always had a look to their image that doesn't go with calibration numbers. The F8500 was producing a clearer and brighter image with much more detail and a clean look that was close to lcd without looking artificial.

Based on the 64F8500 measuring slightly higher in mll than the 60" model, I'm guessing that the 51" set may indeed be the blackest of the bunch, similar in fashion to the last generation Pioneer Kuros. This could be due to stability issues with the black optimizer controls, but I guess we'll know soon enough when some measurements take place.

The filter on this set is more aggressive than anything I've ever seen. Even from 7-8 feet away and looking down 2-3 feet to the panel, the filter still dims the image somewhat. To be fair, there is still vertical dimming going on with the ST60, as well. This is basically a non issue, unless you're watching from extreme vertical viewing angles.

Anyway, impressive, impressive set. It seems like you really can't go wrong this year with plasma. Hopefully this is a taste of even greater things next year, and a viable alternative until OLED is ready for primetime.

ken, or anybody can this be confirmed? (panel size mll) did kevin miller calibrate a 60" and 64" with different mll #'s? 51" lowest mll? guess I haven't seen this..
post #1342 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

+1
Exactly what I thought while watching the video several times.
I do not watch hockey but even if I did this so called pop looks non existent to me, I would not even notice it. I was thinking it was such a disaster while reading about it post after post.

Now we know about it, so please guys move on. No more talks about hockey. This is getting really boring

it seems the same people no matter what's in front of them they find flaws. if you look hard for flaws you will always find them. And there are those who will never be happy I think it's because they spend 2K-3K expecting perfection and they don't find it.
post #1343 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

it seems the same people no matter what's in front of them they find flaws. if you look hard for flaws you will always find them. And there are those who will never be happy I think it's because they spend 2K-3K expecting perfection and they don't find it.

i agree...i'm one of the anal bunch, but after watching that video(yes saw the "pops" 1st try) if this is as bad as it gets the f8500 is one damn fine set that as soon as i sell my big 80" lcd has my name on it.
post #1344 of 11459
In the thread of F8000 I can understand the frustration about Flashlighting and clouding the users are concerned about as they really affect the watching experience in a dark room specially with dark materials and scenes, but sorry this brightness fluctuation here in this thread I'm not buying it. This is not a huge flaw. I don't even find it distracting even for those who will watch hockey.

Once you are in the game you won't even notice all this. It is completely opposite of flashlights and clouds in LED where to some extent they are distracting if present to a high degree. Even slight flashlighting and clouding that I think is more annoying than this brightness fluctuation can be tolerated, but someone giving up this TV because of this very very minor problem then I would say they will never be satisfied with any other TV because there is no perfect TV. Absolutely not. At least not to me.
post #1345 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

In the thread of F8000 I can understand the frustration about Flashlighting and clouding the users are concerned about as they really affect the watching experience in a dark room specially with dark materials and scenes, but sorry this brightness fluctuation here in this thread I'm not buying it. This is not a huge flaw. I don't even find it distracting even for those who will watch hockey.

Once you are in the game you won't even notice all this. It is completely opposite of flashlights and clouds on LED where to some extent they are distracting if present to a high degree. Even slight flashlighting and clouding that I think is more annoying than this brightness fluctuation can be tolerated, but someone giving up this TV because of this very very minor problem then I would say they will never be satisfied with any other TV because there is no perfect TV. Absolutely not. At least not to me.

+1
post #1346 of 11459
All this talk of pops, would this be a hardware limitation or software bug i.e. fixable in a firmware update?

I can't see anything described.
post #1347 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

In the thread of F8000 I can understand the frustration about Flashlighting and clouding the users are concerned about as they really affect the watching experience in a dark room specially with dark materials and scenes, but sorry this brightness fluctuation here in this thread I'm not buying it. This is not a huge flaw. I don't even find it distracting even for those who will watch hockey.

Once you are in the game you won't even notice all this. It is completely opposite of flashlights and clouds in LED where to some extent they are distracting if present to a high degree. Even slight flashlighting and clouding that I think is more annoying than this brightness fluctuation can be tolerated, but someone giving up this TV because of this very very minor problem then I would say they will never be satisfied with any other TV because there is no perfect TV. Absolutely not. At least not to me.

Thanks for this. Makes me feel 100% better about my purchase. I saw maybe a little bit of light increase in the video but didn't see it as a big deal. The way people make it seems is like it is unwatchable. To me it seems it might be trying to make the picture better?? I dunno. Either way, didn't bother me and I am really excited for my 64 inch to come next week. biggrin.gif
Edited by Thelt2000x - 4/6/13 at 6:46am
post #1348 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

All this talk of pops, would this be a hardware limitation or software bug i.e. fixable in a firmware update?

I can't see anything described.

It could be software based or it could be hardware, since changing settings seems to help with the issue, I am leaning more towards software at this point, of course there will be extreme cases where the panel is bad and it wont matter.

I wouldn start "looking" for them if you dont see them, some are more sensitive to it and thus it sticks out like a sore thumb when watching content, others may never see it even when it is happening......
post #1349 of 11459
Does anyone use the OTA TV EPG guide? It is really sluggish slow when it looks for information but when it catches up its fast. When you change to smart hub or another input then go back to TV, the guide starts over again looking for information. Hopefully they update this also in the future to fix this. The guide is a nice feature for those that use OTA antenna.
post #1350 of 11459
Well I picked up my 51F8500 yesterday and all I can say is WOW... I meant to post my impressions yesterday but I've been totally engrossed watching it lol..
It's incredibly bright (I'd say as bright as a LED) and now I know what is meant when people describe Blacks as "inky", I really didn't think Blacks could ever wow me but WOW...
I still find myself tweaking the picture settings quite a bit but that normal for me with a new TV, funny thing is on my A850 I had the daytime settings done through Dynamic and night viewing settings in Movie but with this set I don't think Dynamic will ever be used, Movie and Standard are my new daytime/night time modes..

As for pops and fluctuations I haven't seen any and I watched ever type of content imaginable from Golf, Baseball, Hockey, HD through Comcast, Netflix through Smart and Argo on BR.. Yea I pretty much spend the whole afternoon, evening and night in front of this TV tongue.gif

I do want to send a big THANK YOU to Robert & Wendy at VE, it was such a total pleasure meeting them and dealing with real TV enthusiasts and knowledgeable people, much more enjoyable then big store "Sales" personnel. I'm SUPER happy to have purchased my TV from Robert and Wendy vs online or chain stores, sadly here in my in area the Best Buys, Walmarts and HH Greggs have killed all the family owned B&Ms here which I find truly sad.. I do know when its time to replace my F8500 I'll be taking another ride to VE.. biggrin.gif
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