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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 65

post #1921 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by wattheF View Post

I would ask the guys working at the store if they noticed anything weird going on with hockey playing and no one noticed it until I pointed it out. Then all of the sudden they said something along the lines of "OH WOW! Yeah that's pretty bad but I never noticed it before"

well, thanks for pointing it out to us fellow hockey players who had yet to notice! now i'm ruined!!! biggrin.gif
post #1922 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I thought it might be interesting to give my observations of the ZT60 that I saw tonight at the Engadget show (thanks Robert & Wendy for the invite, MUCH appreciated!). I apologize if some feel this is inappropriate in this thread, but I know there must be others besides me that are looking at both the 8500 & ZT60 for their next display. So here's what I saw and I disagree on a few points with digitaltrends:
*snip*

I often wonder how much attention is given to the rival displays in these manufacturer "shoot-outs". Certainly a properly calibrated 9G Pioneer should lose to nothing in terms of shadow detail, for a start.

Did Panasonic give any information about what model they had there, what mode it was in and how it was calibrated?

At any rate, It seems my quest for a larger display that can rival mine in both accuracy and dark-room contrast will continue for at least a while longer....
post #1923 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridaman View Post

Set the film mode to auto 2 and this will eliminate the blurred text.

Thanks for this Floridaman. I will def try that when I get home. Any advice on the ABL?
Edited by Thelt2000x - 4/10/13 at 5:32am
post #1924 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinson ------ View Post


Try these out.
I started with Kevin Miller movie & night setting and tweaked a little.

If anyone has any settings that are good for me try, please text it. I am still tweaking and continuing to make the hdtv better. and eliminate pops as much as possible.
Thanks for reply-ing.

I've got 100+ hours of break-in on my 51F8500 and plan on keep breaking it in to D-Nice's recommended 200 hours.. But as of now these are my daytime settings..
Note:they may be a bit brighter then some may like but I coming from years of LCDs I just like/used to a bright display, heck that's why I bought the F8500.. it does have the brightness of a LED combined with the blacks and contrast of plasma, to me that results in Utopia biggrin.gif

Mode-Standard
Cell-20
Contrast-98
Brightness-43
Sharpness-11
Color-50
Advanced
Dynamic Contrast-Low
Black Tone-Off
Flesh Tons_+2
Color Space-Auto
White Balance- 25 for all
10 p White Balance-off
Gamma- -1
Motion Lighting-Off
Picture Options
Color Tone-Warm1
Digital Clean-Auto
MPEG-Auto
HDMI black level-Normal
Film Mode-auto2
Motion Judder-Standard-can differ depending on what I'm watching (Movie, sports or programming)
Black Optimizer-Dark Room

Opinions or suggestions are most welcome..
post #1925 of 11457
^
eek.gif

biggrin.gif

-We certainly all do have different tastes!! wink.gif
post #1926 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

I've got 100+ hours of break-in on my 51F8500 and plan on keep breaking it in to D-Nice's recommended 200 hours.. But as of now these are my daytime settings..
Note:they may be a bit brighter then some may like but I coming from years of LCDs I just like/used to a bright display, heck that's why I bought the F8500.. it does have the brightness of a LED combined with the blacks and contrast of plasma, to me that results in Utopia biggrin.gif

Mode-Standard
Cell-20
Contrast-98
Brightness-43
Sharpness-11
Color-50
Advanced
Dynamic Contrast-Low
Black Tone-Off
Flesh Tons_+2
Color Space-Auto
White Balance- 25 for all
10 p White Balance-off
Gamma- -1
Motion Lighting-Off
Picture Options
Color Tone-Warm1
Digital Clean-Auto
MPEG-Auto
HDMI black level-Normal
Film Mode-auto2
Motion Judder-Standard-can differ depending on what I'm watching (Movie, sports or programming)
Black Optimizer-Dark Room

Opinions or suggestions are most welcome..

Do you see much brightness fluctuation with these setting? I.e. Hockey??
post #1927 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Well, I received my 64 inch yesterday. I will echo what the previous owners have said and say the picture really is just amazing. However, a few concerns. The ABL I have been reading so much about is like a punch in the face. I watched a little bit of hockey last night and it was instantaneous. Brightness up up brightness down down. 2-3 times an min. Economy is turn off and cell light was at 20. Tried a few different settings didn't really work. This was only during hockey. Didn't notice it any other time. I also noticed on sports "tickers" at the bottom as the text was scrolling it would be blurry sometimes(??) that's confusing to me. I am not too sure how I feel about these two things. Unfortunately though this set is going back because it came with a nasty scratch. The company was more than nice about it and said they would send another and pick up mine when delivered. Oh yea, I did update the TV too.

These are just my initial thoughts and concerns

Thelt.....

DOnt foret there are TWO different things you may see with a hockey game.....There are bright flashes on the screen which are the strobes (which will occur all the time) then there are the ABL fluctuations that will usually show up when both light and dark are on the TV (Ice and crowd).....If its happening 2-3 times a min on your TV then it is either the strobes from the photographers, settings or a defective set.....
post #1928 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird8450 View Post

I often wonder how much attention is given to the rival displays in these manufacturer "shoot-outs". Certainly a properly calibrated 9G Pioneer should lose to nothing in terms of shadow detail, for a start.

Did Panasonic give any information about what model they had there, what mode it was in and how it was calibrated?

At any rate, It seems my quest for a larger display that can rival mine in both accuracy and dark-room contrast will continue for at least a while longer....

He did mention the model #, but I've forgotten. I'm pretty sure it was a 9.5 gen.

There was definitely more shadow detail on the ZT60, I think that was probably the most convincing part of the A/B. He went in to a detailed explanation as to why that was and it did not appear to be related to the Kuro being improperly adjusted. As I said, I do believe the color was not set properly, but that was it. The reddish blacks on the Kuro didn't surprise anyone as I believe most Kuros suffered from that. I know my Pro 151 did.

Frankly, if I had to choose between a Kuro and the ZT60, I'd choose the ZT60 because I think it does more things better than the Kuro (color, motion, shadow detail & brighness). Choosing between the ZT60 and the F8500, is far more difficult IMO. But for full-screen blacks, at least from how my eyes saw it, the Kuro still edged out the ZT by a hair. Now he did say they measured essentially the same within the limitations of their light meter. So it's entirely possible that a better light meter would have wound up showing what my eyes were seeing, an edge to the Kuro.
post #1929 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Thelt.....

DOnt foret there are TWO different things you may see with a hockey game.....There are bright flashes on the screen which are the strobes (which will occur all the time) then there are the ABL fluctuations that will usually show up when both light and dark are on the TV (Ice and crowd).....If its happening 2-3 times a min on your TV then it is either the strobes from the photographers, settings or a defective set.....

Thanks. Trust me I could notice the difference between the flashed and fluctuations. It would be in two increments every time. The screen as a whole would get brighter brighter then dimmer and dimmer. I am going to try some of the settings that have been posted to see if that helps. But like I said this set is going back anyway because of the scratch on the screen.
post #1930 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Thelt.....

DOnt foret there are TWO different things you may see with a hockey game.....There are bright flashes on the screen which are the strobes (which will occur all the time) then there are the ABL fluctuations that will usually show up when both light and dark are on the TV (Ice and crowd).....If its happening 2-3 times a min on your TV then it is either the strobes from the photographers, settings or a defective set.....

Disagree - the ABL fluctuations will happen with hockey pretty much anytime up and down the ice (unless the particular broadcast has a camera angle where it doesn't catch much of the crowd when it pans to each offensive zone) and is something that I think you learn to live with over time (doesn't bother me on the D7000 anymore)

In fact, I'm pleased that it sounds like the ridiculous "brightness pops" on other content doesn't appear to be an issue on these sets - that's an issue that is absolutely infuriating once you realize your set has it and that the "fix" is only temporary.
post #1931 of 11457
I forgot to mention that on my way to the Panasonic show, I stopped in to a Magnolia store in Westbury. What I saw there was a bit disconcerting. They had some BD movie playing (pretty bad, grade B pirate type movie) on the 64" F8500 which was set to "Dynamic". The display was painfully bright. But this was the first time I saw multiple instances of popping. Just as Floridaman had commented, large expanses of sky triggered the popping. In one scene there was what looked like a fortress wall that was very brightly lit and even that induced one episode of popping. Darker scenes were gorgeous and shadow detail looked great.

I asked for the remote and we dialed the cell light to 20 and played back the chapter. I saw the same popping in the same places. Putting it in movie mode helped a bit, but I still could see the popping. I wanted to get to the show, so I spent very little time with settings.

So why this display with this movie? I had seen this same display with Life of Pi and saw no instances of popping. So there was something about this last move and the scenes within it that triggered the popping. I was pretty rattled about it. The movie itself looked like a pretty bad transfer, so it could have been partially due to that and the really hyped contrast of the movie (not just the hyped contrast of Dynamic). There's no way to know for sure.

I mentioned this to Robert prior to the show (he was surprised) and he mentioned he has already spoken to Samsung about it. He indicated they are concerned and are listening. What this means in terms of a fix is anyone's guess.
post #1932 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Disagree - the ABL fluctuations will happen with hockey pretty much anytime up and down the ice (unless the particular broadcast has a camera angle where it doesn't catch much of the crowd when it pans to each offensive zone) and is something that I think you learn to live with over time (doesn't bother me on the D7000 anymore)

In fact, I'm pleased that it sounds like the ridiculous "brightness pops" on other content doesn't appear to be an issue on these sets - that's an issue that is absolutely infuriating once you realize your set has it and that the "fix" is only temporary.

Yea.... I suppose it is something I could "learn to live with." but just based on the early reviews I though this would only be a problem on cell light 16 or 17. Hmm.... I dunno...
post #1933 of 11457
The only place I've seen popping thus far is starting at 2min40sec in the opening of Prometheus (in 3D). The water up ahead and the engineer's skin shows fluctuations, etc for the next couple minutes. Cell brightness does nothing to change this in my experience and does not get less aggressive at 20. What does reduce and/or eliminate it is reducing contrast (i.e. cranking brightness way down or way up). I have yet to try this in 2D yet.

Oddly enough, Frozen Planet, which exhibits a lot of the same kind of scenery and contrast (expanses of white with dark objects present) doesn't exhibit brightness pops at all....none whatsoever.
post #1934 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I forgot to mention that on my way to the Panasonic show, I stopped in to a Magnolia store in Westbury. What I saw there was a bit disconcerting. They had some BD movie playing (pretty bad, grade B pirate type movie) on the 64" F8500 which was set to "Dynamic". The display was painfully bright. But this was the first time I saw multiple instances of popping. Just as Floridaman had commented, large expanses of sky triggered the popping. In one scene there was what looked like a fortress wall that was very brightly lit and even that induced one episode of popping. Darker scenes were gorgeous and shadow detail looked great.

I asked for the remote and we dialed the cell light to 20 and played back the chapter. I saw the same popping in the same places. Putting it in movie mode helped a bit, but I still could see the popping. I wanted to get to the show, so I spent very little time with settings.

So why this display with this movie? I had seen this same display with Life of Pi and saw no instances of popping. So there was something about this last move and the scenes within it that triggered the popping. I was pretty rattled about it. The movie itself looked like a pretty bad transfer, so it could have been partially due to that and the really hyped contrast of the movie (not just the hyped contrast of Dynamic). There's no way to know for sure.

I mentioned this to Robert prior to the show (he was surprised) and he mentioned he has already spoken to Samsung about it. He indicated they are concerned and are listening. What this means in terms of a fix is anyone's guess.

I guess I should forget what I just said then.

Ugh, if I go through all of this pain AND pay the $600 extra to upgrade to this model and it still has the same brightness pops I am going to be livid.
post #1935 of 11457
One more thing: I did experience cell light @ 16 causing rhythmic pulsing in the brightness on all content. Setting it lower or higher fixed it and I haven't seen it since.
post #1936 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

One more thing: I did experience cell light @ 16 causing rhythmic pulsing in the brightness on all content. Setting it lower or higher fixed it and I haven't seen it since.

The cell light at 16 seems to be causing an issue for most people if not all people.
Edited by DavidHir - 4/10/13 at 7:06am
post #1937 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

No need ot make a qualifier though there are plenty of people who like 3D on the forums, especially when its done right wink.gif


BTW thank you for the nice review, I know there were a few people looking to hear about the motion handeling and 3D of this set, your review, is the first "in depth" one I ahve seen from an end user in regards to this......

I agree Watcher that was some good feedback on the 3D capabilities of the set and I appreciated reading it. Thanks for making the effort.
post #1938 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

The cell light at 16 seems to be causing an issue for most people if not all people it seems.

I didn't noticed a difference either way. There were fluctuations at all cell lights for me..... But again, only on hockey
post #1939 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Thanks. Trust me I could notice the difference between the flashed and fluctuations. It would be in two increments every time. The screen as a whole would get brighter brighter then dimmer and dimmer. I am going to try some of the settings that have been posted to see if that helps. But like I said this set is going back anyway because of the scratch on the screen.

Ouch.....I totally missed that part...Hopefully the new set treats you better smile.gif
post #1940 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I forgot to mention that on my way to the Panasonic show, I stopped in to a Magnolia store in Westbury. What I saw there was a bit disconcerting. They had some BD movie playing (pretty bad, grade B pirate type movie) on the 64" F8500 which was set to "Dynamic". The display was painfully bright. But this was the first time I saw multiple instances of popping. Just as Floridaman had commented, large expanses of sky triggered the popping. In one scene there was what looked like a fortress wall that was very brightly lit and even that induced one episode of popping. Darker scenes were gorgeous and shadow detail looked great.

I asked for the remote and we dialed the cell light to 20 and played back the chapter. I saw the same popping in the same places. Putting it in movie mode helped a bit, but I still could see the popping. I wanted to get to the show, so I spent very little time with settings.

So why this display with this movie? I had seen this same display with Life of Pi and saw no instances of popping. So there was something about this last move and the scenes within it that triggered the popping. I was pretty rattled about it. The movie itself looked like a pretty bad transfer, so it could have been partially due to that and the really hyped contrast of the movie (not just the hyped contrast of Dynamic). There's no way to know for sure.

I mentioned this to Robert prior to the show (he was surprised) and he mentioned he has already spoken to Samsung about it. He indicated they are concerned and are listening. What this means in terms of a fix is anyone's guess.

Now that you have seen it and know what to look for you will never be able to unsee it wink.gif muhahahahahahahahaha biggrin.gif

A little worrisome for sure, but I am going to wait to see what comes of this wink.gif
post #1941 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

I guess I should forget what I just said then.

Ugh, if I go through all of this pain AND pay the $600 extra to upgrade to this model and it still has the same brightness pops I am going to be livid.

So far reports of "pops" have gone back and forth.....there are sets that experience it more than not it seems and others who dont see it, of course if I didnt see it, I am not going to go looking for it wink.gif

it seems like people get really worried or upset each time some reports seeing them, while I understand why especially due to the history....it seem people ignore the members who dont see it at all.....
post #1942 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

So far reports of "pops" have gone back and forth.....there are sets that experience it more than not it seems and others who dont see it, of course if I didnt see it, I am not going to go looking for it wink.gif

it seems like people get really worried or upset each time some reports seeing them, while I understand why especially due to the history....it seem people ignore the members who dont see it at all.....

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I realize it's a pretty trivial problem. However, you pay a premium to get a top-end display and then you get this ridiculously annoying problem - the worst part being the fact that a) they provide a "fix" that makes the picture almost perfect but apparently stops working after x number of hours and b) having to take off countless hours from work to have technicians diagnose and then return to repair the unit. I've much preferred the picture on the Samsung plasmas the past few years and the Panasonics really worry me with the reports of fuzzier pictures and IR.
post #1943 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I forgot to mention that on my way to the Panasonic show, I stopped in to a Magnolia store in Westbury. What I saw there was a bit disconcerting. They had some BD movie playing (pretty bad, grade B pirate type movie) on the 64" F8500 which was set to "Dynamic". The display was painfully bright. But this was the first time I saw multiple instances of popping. Just as Floridaman had commented, large expanses of sky triggered the popping. In one scene there was what looked like a fortress wall that was very brightly lit and even that induced one episode of popping. Darker scenes were gorgeous and shadow detail looked great.

I asked for the remote and we dialed the cell light to 20 and played back the chapter. I saw the same popping in the same places. Putting it in movie mode helped a bit, but I still could see the popping. I wanted to get to the show, so I spent very little time with settings.

So why this display with this movie? I had seen this same display with Life of Pi and saw no instances of popping. So there was something about this last move and the scenes within it that triggered the popping. I was pretty rattled about it. The movie itself looked like a pretty bad transfer, so it could have been partially due to that and the really hyped contrast of the movie (not just the hyped contrast of Dynamic). There's no way to know for sure.

I mentioned this to Robert prior to the show (he was surprised) and he mentioned he has already spoken to Samsung about it. He indicated they are concerned and are listening. What this means in terms of a fix is anyone's guess.

It would be nice to know or If you can find out exactly what movie it is so we can test same said movie on our sets to see If it does the same things. Maybe you can stop in again and get the name of it and maybe do more testing while there wink.gif
post #1944 of 11457
If anyone with ABL pops is brave enough to enter the service menu and activate CAL night and day and test I can PM where to go and what to do.

I'd take no responsibility if you go wrong though.
post #1945 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I realize it's a pretty trivial problem. However, you pay a premium to get a top-end display and then you get this ridiculously annoying problem - the worst part being the fact that a) they provide a "fix" that makes the picture almost perfect but apparently stops working after x number of hours and b) having to take off countless hours from work to have technicians diagnose and then return to repair the unit. I've much preferred the picture on the Samsung plasmas the past few years and the Panasonics really worry me with the reports of fuzzier pictures and IR.

Two calibrators have already reported annoying grayscale behavior on the ST60 which mimics the VT30. So maybe Samsung with fluctuating brightness and Panasonic are going back to 2011 in some ways. lol
post #1946 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

So far reports of "pops" have gone back and forth.....there are sets that experience it more than not it seems and others who dont see it, of course if I didnt see it, I am not going to go looking for it wink.gif

it seems like people get really worried or upset each time some reports seeing them, while I understand why especially due to the history....it seem people ignore the members who dont see it at all.....

Maybe the TV size?? I have a 64 inch. I anyone with a 51 inch seeing pops? 60 inch??
post #1947 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things I realize it's a pretty trivial problem. However, you pay a premium to get a top-end display and then you get this ridiculously annoying problem - the worst part being the fact that a) they provide a "fix" that makes the picture almost perfect but apparently stops working after x number of hours and b) having to take off countless hours from work to have technicians diagnose and then return to repair the unit. I've much preferred the picture on the Samsung plasmas the past few years and the Panasonics really worry me with the reports of fuzzier pictures and IR.

I totally agree, if you are sensitive to this issue then I recommend holding off on this TV as the sourcce of it is as yet undetermined. We have some users reporting seeing it all the time while others see it rarely if ever.....As with all electronics you have to decide which "evil" you can live with wink.gif its not the ideal situation, but just the world we live in...
post #1948 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Maybe the TV size?? I have a 64 inch. I anyone with a 51 inch seeing pops? 60 inch??

I think we ahve seen reports on all sizes, it could be a combo of a few things of course with a bigger set it will "show" more as with most defects in the image....I watched a 64" in Magnolia and saw a varity of different content, the only defects I saw were due to the source....
post #1949 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I totally agree, if you are sensitive to this issue then I recommend holding off on this TV as the sourcce of it is as yet undetermined. We have some users reporting seeing it all the time while others see it rarely if ever.....As with all electronics you have to decide which "evil" you can live with wink.gif its not the ideal situation, but just the world we live in...

I guess I will have to see it for myself. I still haven't seen anyone describe anything that seems as annoying as what I have on my D7000. I wish someone with the display could play the Jaws Blu-Ray as I could have them run a very easy test to see if the pops are the same as I experienced on the D7000. I am hopeful based on the post a few pages back that I will be as happy with the exchange as the other owner who seemed thrilled with this set compared to his D series he exchanged.
post #1950 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

He did mention the model #, but I've forgotten. I'm pretty sure it was a 9.5 gen.

There was definitely more shadow detail on the ZT60, I think that was probably the most convincing part of the A/B. He went in to a detailed explanation as to why that was and it did not appear to be related to the Kuro being improperly adjusted. As I said, I do believe the color was not set properly, but that was it. The reddish blacks on the Kuro didn't surprise anyone as I believe most Kuros suffered from that. I know my Pro 151 did.

Frankly, if I had to choose between a Kuro and the ZT60, I'd choose the ZT60 because I think it does more things better than the Kuro (color, motion, shadow detail & brighness). Choosing between the ZT60 and the F8500, is far more difficult IMO. But for full-screen blacks, at least from how my eyes saw it, the Kuro still edged out the ZT by a hair. Now he did say they measured essentially the same within the limitations of their light meter. So it's entirely possible that a better light meter would have wound up showing what my eyes were seeing, an edge to the Kuro.

I would be curious to hear the explanation they gave. Panasonic has often marketed their shadow detail as best-in-class, but that has historically been because gamma on the low end is typically incorrect even post-calibration and this results in elevated shadow detail. A fully-calibrated 9G should boast exactly the right amount of shadow detail - not too little, and not too much. Without knowing how both displays were adjusted, I don't really see much benefit in a side-to-side evaluation.
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