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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 72

post #2131 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Because this set is so bright (peak white output) that it has to be tamed for viewing in a dark environment. There are two ways to do this. First you can reduce Contrast but this shifts the 10 point white balance points and makes calibration more difficult (if at all possible) and time consuming. Second you can reduce the Cell light but this lowers the threshold where the ABL circuit kicks in.

Reducing the Cell setting is a more reasonable approach in my opinion.


This F8500 is on my list of potential new replacement plasma TVs but I don't know what I am going to do with the extra 20-30 ftL that comes with it. This, more than the brightness fluctuations, may cause me to remove it from the list.

Larry

Thanks, Im going to have to go with lower cell (for now) then trying to help 'the pops' with lowering contrast or brightness. Most have said that cell @ 20 deactivates the abl, but Ive tried it at 20 with a whole bunch of different combos and just cant get rid of it, only makes it better. but as one fellow pointed out, its not good to lower brightness because thats f up the black properties... So for now I think only lowering the cell is good for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

+1
No difference with my setup or either cal day or night, tried many combos of cell, gamma, brightness..
BUT found Robinson's combo worked best in reducing the issue (that was in Standard mode)..

We tried to figure it out. I ll wait and see what others can get it better.

Keep sharing ideas and knowledge.
post #2132 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Because this set is so bright (peak white output) that it has to be tamed for viewing in a dark environment. There are two ways to do this. First you can reduce Contrast but this shifts the 10 point white balance points and makes calibration more difficult (if at all possible) and time consuming. Second you can reduce the Cell light but this lowers the threshold where the ABL circuit kicks in.

Reducing the Cell setting is a more reasonable approach in my opinion.


This F8500 is on my list of potential new replacement plasma TVs but I don't know what I am going to do with the extra 20-30 ftL that comes with it. This, more than the brightness fluctuations, may cause me to remove it from the list.

Larry

I have wondered how well the 64" F8500, for example, would be at around 33 fl or so which is all I want. I have wondered if the calibration on this display is better at higher output.
post #2133 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I was actually considering the ST60 too, but its quirky grayscale that was mentioned by D-Nice and Chad concerns me, but it's probably a decent upgrade over my ST30.

Probably more than decent, Id wait for DNice to write his report worrying too much about greyscale....as with any set though these days you ahve to pick the lesser of the evil for yourself wink.gif
post #2134 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I have wondered how well the 64" F8500, for example, would be at around 33 fl or so which is all I want. I have wondered if the calibration on this display is better at higher output.

Chad I think measured ~32\34fl if I rememeber correctly , I forget what Kevin calibrated at (I think he did raise it though for 3D)
post #2135 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzakos1 View Post

I have mentioned a few times that I get an unacceptable amount of judder with mjc off and I get stuttering with it set to standard. I'm using direct tv as well and I thought that maybe it was my dvr that wasn't playing nice with the tv, but it's happening with blue ray as well. I'm wondering if anyone knows if film mode has anything to do with it? Does it effect the processing somehow? I also notice it more in movie move. In my opinion this is the one major flaw of this set, it just doesn't seem to be able to process the picture smoothly. Is anyone noticing any stutter other than a couple of us? Could these few sets be defective?

FWIW I'm definitely not getting stuttering.
post #2136 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

That's actually kind of the weird thing I've noticed too. It's counter intuitive to what you associate ABL with, dimming. Where you'd think you'd see a 2 step dimming, I've noticed what appears to be a brightening too. I thought maybe I wasn't seeing this quite right, but that's what it does look like to me.

This is what I notice as well - no dimming but a one step brightening instead.
post #2137 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Chad I think measured ~32\34fl if I rememeber correctly , I forget what Kevin calibrated at (I think he did raise it though for 3D)


Chad calibrated the Movie mode to 51 ftL but he does not normally post control setting values. He said that he could have gotten 58 ftL but decided to reduce it a bit. He also was able to get 85 ftL in the cal-day mode. [blink, squint]

Kevin got 177 cd/m^2 (about 51 ftL) for contrast at 95 and cell at 16.


I cannot take much more than 30 ftL or so for viewing in my near dark living room. I probably could push it up with some back lighting.

Larry
post #2138 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Chad calibrated the Movie mode to 51 ftL but he does not normally post control setting values. He said that he could have gotten 58 ftL but decided to reduce it a bit. He also was able to get 85 ftL in the cal-day mode. [blink, squint]

Kevin got 177 cd/m^2 (about 51 ftL) for contrast at 95 and cell at 16.


I cannot take much more than 30 ftL or so for viewing in my near dark living room. I probably could push it up with some back lighting.

Larry

Well then I stand corrected thank you smile.gif Those are quite high....Maybe for the shootout we will get it at 32 and if not a reason for not doing it smile.gif
post #2139 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Why is that 'special pleading'? I'm making no claims for edge lit LED, just full array. The full array is a subset of LED and it's a technology that obviously works and works extremely well. It's not just full-screen blacks that are so effective, it's shadow detail, it's the rendering of dark movies, it's lots of things. If you haven't lived with it, it probably just sounds like talk. But having come from a fairly lengthy list of plasmas, including the Pro 151, I can tell you that many aspects of full array dimmers are the real deal. They really are. They handle dark movies better than any plasma I've ever owned. It's a pity to see them go.

Oh, and BTW, the Elite doesn't turn off the LEDs on a full black screen, the Sony does that. Sharp took a different approach there to avoid haloing.

As I've said before, if it weren't for the massive screw ups with the last production run of the 70" Elite, I wouldn't be here.

Well, in your original post where you said how good the blacks on the elite are, you didn't mention the other attributes. You just talked about the full black screen. And I said that isn't all that impressive, since the edge lit LEDs can do the same.

I can only respond to what you say, not what you think or know in your head.

And I specifically said I'm sure it has great blacks, but the feature you cite isn't what makes great blacks.

It's like if you say Lebron is the best bb player ever, he can dunk like crazy, and I say well, it's not that big a deal, lots of guys can dunk.
post #2140 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

I'm watching the hockey game. 64 inch directv movie mode. Brightness fluctuations all over the place. I never notice it dim.... Just get brighter... Is that normal??

It's like that with my E533 too. I don't notice the dimming but notice it brightening up. It usually does a double tap, pop pop.

I think Samsung needs to refine the algorithm for their ABL controller. Seems they try to ramp back up after dimming too quickly. Like a driver who slams on the break and the gas and makes the car lurch and the passengers nauseous.
post #2141 of 11456
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

That's incorrect. From everything I've heard, the meter that D-Nice and Kevin Miller use are more accurate in the lowest MLLs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

^^^ Both meters are accurate in that range, could be as simple as unit variation for two different reading from two different displays.
.
We are both right, I stated " Both meters are accurate in that range," You are saying D-nice's and Kevin Miller's meters are better. ^^^ Never said their meters where not more accurate, just stated they both can read in this range.

Chad's meter is still good in that lower range, sure there may be better meters out there, according to the manufacturer it will read that low and lower. So just because one meter is better than another, does that mean our readings where no good ? I guess D-Nice and Kevin Miller can stop out and we will know for sure biggrin.gif As we have all noted, there will be unit variation. ( Meaning the TV itself ) Does not mean one's meter is not measuring accurately. Chad and I had this discussion the night he was here with the Samsung, as we had a good feeling it would come up. He did say the meters these guys where using where a little more accurate, but he did state his meter was supposed to be able to read in these lower levels. Now if this F8500 where below Kuro blacks, we might want a better meter tongue.gif

From Chad B: Spectracal and ChromaPure say the C6/i1D3 is good down to about .001 fL for luminance readings. The actual manufacturer, X-Rite, is silent on the subject.
The Klein K-10a meter is as far as I know the best meter on the planet for measuring black levels, but like you said if they are both good to well below what I measured.

Yours,
Chad B

www.HDTVbyChadB.com
.
.
Edited by Cleveland Plasma - 4/10/13 at 9:45pm
post #2142 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post



As I've said before, if it weren't for the massive screw ups with the last production run of the 70" Elite, I wouldn't be here.

Same boat....
post #2143 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post


We are both right, I stated " Both meters are accurate in that range," You are saying D-nice's and Kevin Miller's meters are better. ^^^ Never said their meters where not more accurate, just stated they both can read in this range.

Chad's meter is still good in that lower range, sure there may be better meters out there, according to the manufacturer it will read that low and lower. So just because one meter is better than another, does that mean our readings where no good ? I guess D-Nice and Kevin Miller can stop out and we will know for sure biggrin.gif As we have all noted, there will be unit variation. ( Meaning the TV itself ) Does not mean one's meter is not measuring accurately. Chad and I had this discussion the night he was here with the Samsung, as we had a good feeling it would come up. He did say the meters there guys where using where a little more accurate, but he did state his meter was supposed to be able to read in these lower levels, even into kuro black zone.

---To further this topic it would not be surprising to hear that there are better meters than what D-Nice and Kevin Miller use. I am not saying there are, I am saying I would not be surprised. Lets face it these meters can get very expensive. When is enough, enough ?

Youre asking when is enough enough on AVS? that answer would be neeevvvveeerrrrr biggrin.gif

I dont doubt that Chads measurements were accurate smile.gif As you said there are a variety of considerations to be made when measurements are read form teh ambient light in the room to the meter used to the panel variation that occurs.......

The best test in the end is someones eyes which should always be the final say when choosing a TV....Too often we seem to get caught up in the numbers and "whats wrong" and forget to enjoy the TVs we have wink.gif
post #2144 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Chad calibrated the Movie mode to 51 ftL but he does not normally post control setting values. He said that he could have gotten 58 ftL but decided to reduce it a bit. He also was able to get 85 ftL in the cal-day mode. [blink, squint]

Kevin got 177 cd/m^2 (about 51 ftL) for contrast at 95 and cell at 16.


I cannot take much more than 30 ftL or so for viewing in my near dark living room. I probably could push it up with some back lighting.

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Well then I stand corrected thank you smile.gif Those are quite high....Maybe for the shootout we will get it at 32 and if not a reason for not doing it smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Chad calibrated the Movie mode to 51 ftL but he does not normally post control setting values. He said that he could have gotten 58 ftL but decided to reduce it a bit. He also was able to get 85 ftL in the cal-day mode. [blink, squint]

Kevin got 177 cd/m^2 (about 51 ftL) for contrast at 95 and cell at 16.


I cannot take much more than 30 ftL or so for viewing in my near dark living room. I probably could push it up with some back lighting.

Larry

Larry & Ph8te,
I notice that Miller has contrast & brightness consistently the same in both day-cal & movie modes, but has the cell different at 16 & 20. He stats in his review that he gets 40 FL for movie & 66 FL for day. So would you get the FL around the sweet-spot of 30/32 FL by having the cell at 14or15? Is that close...

day cell 20, contrast 95, brightness 46 = 66FL
movie cell 16, contrast 95, brightness 47 = 40FL
--- cell 14, contrast 95, brightness 47 = 30FL?

If I were to put cell at 14or15, would that give this 30FL peak output. I too have a moviethreatre environment, so that 30 FL sounds better for us.
Thanks, eh.
post #2145 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Doesnt look good. I guess all us Samsung and Panny owners will be sitting around bitter like Kuro people have been the last few years...
The only bitter Kuro owners would be those that wound up with a display that failed and couldn't be repaired for a reasonable cost. Those that wanted new features just moved on to the Sharp Elite or the top models from Samsung and Panasonic.

If Panasonic, Samsung and LG drop plasma then all plasma owners who can't stand LCD will be bitter. mad.gif

I think it's more likely that Samsung will continue to produce the F8500 design as long as there are enough buyers. I doubt that there will be any further significant improvement to plasma.

I'm content with our Kuro that's over five years old. I'm also content to replace it with one of the current top plasmas in the future, even if there is no further significant improvement. biggrin.gif
post #2146 of 11456
Well, I think I may just go ahead and tell the delivery person to keep the new tv and give him the old one too. I really thought I could live with the fluctuations but it really is too much for me on the 64 inch. I have been following this TV since CES and thought it was my answer to the plasma. This is my first plasma and I will say the picture is like something I have never seen before. I can't see myself going back to an LED unless it's a full array. But $5,000 for a 65 inch?? Really?? Well I guess I will go back to my 42 inch LCD and just wait and see..... So freaking disappointing......

Just to mention a few things. Again PQ awesome, no buzz, very bright, reflections were very very minimal, the set itself looked nice, I didn't experience too much IR (and I tested more than I probably should have), blu rays looks awesome, but the fluctuations are just too crazy.
post #2147 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post


We are both right, I stated " Both meters are accurate in that range," You are saying D-nice's and Kevin Miller's meters are better. ^^^ Never said their meters where not more accurate, just stated they both can read in this range.

Chad's meter is still good in that lower range, sure there may be better meters out there, according to the manufacturer it will read that low and lower. So just because one meter is better than another, does that mean our readings where no good ? I guess D-Nice and Kevin Miller can stop out and we will know for sure biggrin.gif As we have all noted, there will be unit variation. ( Meaning the TV itself ) Does not mean one's meter is not measuring accurately. Chad and I had this discussion the night he was here with the Samsung, as we had a good feeling it would come up. He did say the meters these guys where using where a little more accurate, but he did state his meter was supposed to be able to read in these lower levels. Now if this F8500 where below Kuro blacks, we might want a better meter tongue.gif

From Chad B: Spectracal and ChromaPure say the C6/i1D3 is good down to about .001 fL for luminance readings. The actual manufacturer, X-Rite, is silent on the subject.
The Klein K-10a meter is as far as I know the best meter on the planet for measuring black levels, but like you said if they are both good to well below what I measured.

Yours,
Chad B

www.HDTVbyChadB.com
.
.

I think the analogy I'd make here is to that of speaker response. We know that some speakers can measure 20-20,000hz +/- 3db. It's in that "+/- 3db" where much of the variation lives (aside from embellishments by the manufacturer. As you get lower or higher toward the limits of those speakers, response becomes much more 'sketchy' and less responsive. So the point is that as you get to the upper or lower limits of almost any instrument, inaccuracies become greater. The meter that Kevin and D-Nice use have a greater response in that very low MLL region. I'm not saying that Chad's unit is inaccurate, it's simply not as sensitive in that very low region.

At least that's how I understand it, and I've heard this from a number of people who use these devices.
post #2148 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by barth2k View Post

It's like that with my E533 too. I don't notice the dimming but notice it brightening up. It usually does a double tap, pop pop.

I think Samsung needs to refine the algorithm for their ABL controller. Seems they try to ramp back up after dimming too quickly. Like a driver who slams on the break and the gas and makes the car lurch and the passengers nauseous.

I would agree. It doesn't seem as if it would be too difficult (without knowing all the intricacies) a job to refine that algorithm. They have such a great panel here and the popping certainly seems to be detracting from the enjoyment of many owners.

I'm hoping we can find out what's different in Kevin Miller's Cal Day settings that eliminated it on that display. As I've said before, it may not just be his settings, but a combination of those settings and something that's engaged or disengaged behind the scenes that's resulting in this improvement.
post #2149 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

The F8500, like the ZT60 for Panasonic, has got to be Samsung's "last plasma panel" as well. I could see Samsung possibly holding out one year longer than Panasonic to maybe consume some of the leftover sales especially since they are doing better as a company, but who knows.

I agree, I wouldn't be surprised if tv production ended for Panasonic after 2014 and Samsung stayed around for a year or two longer in plasma only because of the issues they seem to be having getting OLED off the ground.

There could be some refinements of their current tech, they may drive the panels differently next year to get an even better black level, but I think a lot of this is due to issues with OLED materializing. I could see them creating a panel that got black depth of a 9G Kuro, but there may be a lot of sets doing that next year. Panasonic basically has their S,ST,VT, and ZT sets all getting near a 9G in mll.
post #2150 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Well, I think I may just go ahead and tell the delivery person to keep the new tv and give him the old one too. I really thought I could live with the fluctuations but it really is too much for me on the 64 inch. I have been following this TV since CES and thought it was my answer to the plasma. This is my first plasma and I will say the picture is like something I have never seen before. I can't see myself going back to an LED unless it's a full array. But $5,000 for a 65 inch?? Really?? Well I guess I will go back to my 42 inch LCD and just wait and see..... So freaking disappointing......

Just to mention a few things. Again PQ awesome, no buzz, very bright, reflections were very very minimal, the set itself looked nice, I didn't experience too much IR (and I tested more than I probably should have), blu rays looks awesome, but the fluctuations are just too crazy.

That's to bad, I agree the pq is awesome and I have absolutely no buzz(worried me presale) IR has been a non-issue but honestly I don't see the fluctuations you are.. Granted I have the 51" but I would be surprised if there was much of a difference..
But it's your money and eyes and if they aren't happy then I don't blame you, I'd be pissed if I had to give up this TV, its absolutely the best picture I've ever seen... Good luck and I hope you find what makes you happy, that is what its all about:cool:

Only problem I'm having is I can't stop watching it lol and today starts The Masters.. It going to look incredible I'm sure..
Edited by Pinger - 4/11/13 at 5:16am
post #2151 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

That's to bad, I agree the pq is awesome and I have absolutely no buzz(worried me presale) IR has been a non-issue but honestly I don't see the fluctuations you are.. Granted I have the 51" but I would be surprised if there was much of a difference..
But it's your money and eyes and if they aren't happy then I don't blame you, I'd be pissed if I had to give up this TV, its absolutely the best picture I've ever seen... Good luck and I hope you find what makes you happy, that is what its all about:cool:

Only problem I'm having is I can't stop watching it lol and today starts The Masters.. It going to look incredible I'm sure..

Thanks. I wanted so much to like this TV. I was making excuses saying well maybe I'm too close so I stood in my kitchen which in probably another 5-6 ft in viewing distance and it was still there. Maybe it is because I have never owned a plasma before so I am noticing it more? I'm not sure....

Just saw where the EU vt60 was reviewed and they said there was flicker at mid to high brightness. Dagger....
Edited by Thelt2000x - 4/11/13 at 5:25am
post #2152 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Because this set is so bright (peak white output) that it has to be tamed for viewing in a dark environment. There are two ways to do this. First you can reduce Contrast but this shifts the 10 point white balance points and makes calibration more difficult (if at all possible) and time consuming. Second you can reduce the Cell light but this lowers the threshold where the ABL circuit kicks in.

Reducing the Cell setting is a more reasonable approach in my opinion.


This F8500 is on my list of potential new replacement plasma TVs but I don't know what I am going to do with the extra 20-30 ftL that comes with it. This, more than the brightness fluctuations, may cause me to remove it from the list.

Larry

? Larry, I'm a little confused by your thoughts here.

Wouldn't you agree having headroom is *always* a good thing? Even in stereo amplifiers for example. You don't want to exhaust the amp completely producing a lot of low end only to loose fidelity on the high end. This is why there is bi-amping and even tri-amping. And actually having too small of an amp compared to your speakers on a stereo puts you at risk of damaging your speakers vs having an amp that is slightly over powered. Clipping (ABL) on the smaller amp == bad == fried speakers. In the case of the plasma TV it damages your image quality smile.gif

So the same applies withe ABL and the plasma. I think someone reported a 24fl on full white screen. That's a 20% increase from what the VT50 is capable of. You will see that in program material even with your TV dialed into 35fL. Then there is there is the question, is your Plasma really dialed into 35fL? It might be 35fl at some specific APL, but it's not at all APLs.

With the added headroom the 8500 has you will see some luminance you have been missing with previous plasmas with higher APL scenes. Most plasmas run really flat and look like crud with bright images. I know my VT50 does.

I find It's interesting people focus on few very low APL scenes to enjoy their blacks which don't happen very often (but in some material). Just the same can be said with higher APL scenes where plasmas crap out. The 8500 should appear brighter in those scenes and come closer to producing a more accurate image in terms of luminance. Mostly because it has the headroom to do it when you have the TV calibrated to a lower peak luminance.

You make it sound like you have had extra/ample lumens to play with on previous plasmas. When really you've been watching a crushed (compressed) luminance channel all along in higher APLs. The 8500 just brings you closer to what you should be seeing. The VT50 ABL kicks in very early, so even in mid APL scenes you can see it's presence.

This might also be another interesting thing to measure/discuss at the shootout. Measure 100% white from 1% size pattern to 100% and graph it. Which Plasma TV has best headroom/ABL design to cover 1% APL to 50% APL scenes?
Edited by SiGGy - 4/11/13 at 6:00am
post #2153 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post


I find It's interesting people focus on few very low APL scenes to enjoy their blacks which don't happen very often (but in some material). Just the same can be said with higher APL scenes where plasmas crap out. The 8500 should appear brighter in those scenes and come closer to producing a more accurate image in terms of luminance. Mostly because it has the headroom to do it when you have the TV calibrated to a lower peak luminance.

The brain is wired to notice the gradations in low luminance more so than high luminance. But I agree that throwing away the headroom is counter-productive. I would suggest keeping the cell light at 20 and lowering sub-contrast in the SM to align your desired peak white with the upper end of the contrast control.
Quote:
This might also be another interesting thing to measure/discuss at the shootout. Measure 100% white from 1% size pattern to 100% and graph it. Which Plasma TV has best headroom/ABL design to cover 1% APL to 50% APL scenes?

I'd like to see that as well.
post #2154 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Thanks. I wanted so much to like this TV. I was making excuses saying well maybe I'm too close so I stood in my kitchen which in probably another 5-6 ft in viewing distance and it was still there. Maybe it is because I have never owned a plasma before so I am noticing it more? I'm not sure....

Just saw where the EU vt60 was reviewed and they said there was flicker at mid to high brightness. Dagger....

Surprised to read this. Based on what most people have reported aren't the fluctuations mostly an issue with only hockey? Or are you seeing this a lot more than other people? I wish my D series plasma had a more subtle ABL function, but I found that I quickly got used to it during Caps games and it really doesn't bother me. The brightness pops during other content is what really drove me crazy and it sounds like that hasn't been an issue for most.
post #2155 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Surprised to read this. Based on what most people have reported aren't the fluctuations mostly an issue with only hockey? Or are you seeing this a lot more than other people? I wish my D series plasma had a more subtle ABL function, but I found that I quickly got used to it during Caps games and it really doesn't bother me. The brightness pops during other content is what really drove me crazy and it sounds like that hasn't been an issue for most.

If you watch a lot of Hockey it would be a major issue no? wink.gif

Also regardless of settings Thelt may just have a defective set, sometimes however you get such a bad taste that you dont even want to take a chance with the next one......I belive Thelt was eeing it in more than just hockey, which leads me to believe that it was either settings or a defective set....but if he is ultra sensitive to this issue then it may just be the wrong set for him.....

JMU woosaahhhhhh I know youa re getting worried wink.gif this is what happens when new sets come out. There are a number of people who still ahve and enjoy thier sets, of course they dont post as much AND the problems wil always outweigh them since people are trying to figure out whats wrong and help the person fix if possible the issues that they are having
post #2156 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Thanks. I wanted so much to like this TV. I was making excuses saying well maybe I'm too close so I stood in my kitchen which in probably another 5-6 ft in viewing distance and it was still there. Maybe it is because I have never owned a plasma before so I am noticing it more? I'm not sure....

Just saw where the EU vt60 was reviewed and they said there was flicker at mid to high brightness. Dagger....

I'm a little confused, your issue sounds different then what I see (and for me its only with hockey).. My brightness doesn't change rather I can see a blip or blink for a millisecond when 80-90℅ of the screen had the hockey rink in view, what your explaining sounds like your getting more then want I'm seeing?? Sounds like the VT60 also cranked up their brightness resulting in what I think I'm seeing during a hockey game but I dying get it with any other content... Either way I feel bad you have to now settle for something you hoped more from...

Question for our knowledgeable members here:
Why couldn't Samsung engineers release a firmware update which could shut off ABL completely when cell level is set at say 10 or maybe something lower?? With the cell level set that low I would think "meltdown'' wouldn't be a issue, yes??
post #2157 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUdukes07 View Post

Surprised to read this. Based on what most people have reported aren't the fluctuations mostly an issue with only hockey? Or are you seeing this a lot more than other people? I wish my D series plasma had a more subtle ABL function, but I found that I quickly got used to it during Caps games and it really doesn't bother me. The brightness pops during other content is what really drove me crazy and it sounds like that hasn't been an issue for most.

For me it was hockey, then my daughters tv shows, then commercials. I am just thinking plasma may not be for me that's all. Great picture, great blacks. But these fluctuations are just too much for me. And when my wife starts to say "wtf was that. Did the screen just get brighter?" and I didn't even talk to her about it, I think that's enough for me. I am beginning to think plasma tvs (please don't kill me for this) are more of a Blu-ray movie type tv and not necessarily an everyday tv. I am thinking about looking for a full array tv somewhere. If I needed a tv for strictly movies, this would be the one. JMO. Thanks to everyone here that helped me out.
post #2158 of 11456
^^^

Does your wife really say "WTF"? My kind of girl.
post #2159 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I would agree. It doesn't seem as if it would be too difficult (without knowing all the intricacies) a job to refine that algorithm. They have such a great panel here and the popping certainly seems to be detracting from the enjoyment of many owners.

I'm hoping we can find out what's different in Kevin Miller's Cal Day settings that eliminated it on that display. As I've said before, it may not just be his settings, but a combination of those settings and something that's engaged or disengaged behind the scenes that's resulting in this improvement.

It worries me that this issues has persisted through several model years. Samsung surely knows about the issue. This indicates it may be something inherent in the design, a trade off somewhere the Samsung engineers decided to make. In previous years, they released new firmware that was supposed to fix it; some people thought it did, some insisted no.

Please explain more about Kevin's cal day settings. How did you guys determine the FBr was eliminated? Did you watch a known problematic clip and saw it gone? Could it be Kevin just fortuitously fixed the pop on that and similar clips but maybe other, different material will show it? Is this the set where you could only see like 2 instances of popping after so many hours staring at it? Or was that Robert Zohn's?

What about the cal night settings?

I see Kevin's settings floating around on this thread. I take it people have tried them but they did not fix the FBr on their sets?
post #2160 of 11456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

For me it was hockey, then my daughters tv shows, then commercials. I am just thinking plasma may not be for me that's all. Great picture, great blacks. But these fluctuations are just too much for me. And when my wife starts to say "wtf was that. Did the screen just get brighter?" and I didn't even talk to her about it, I think that's enough for me. I am beginning to think plasma tvs (please don't kill me for this) are more of a Blu-ray movie type tv and not necessarily an everyday tv. I am thinking about looking for a full array tv somewhere. If I needed a tv for strictly movies, this would be the one. JMO. Thanks to everyone here that helped me out.

Personally I would wait to see if the replacement set exhibits the same tendencies as the old one. It sounds like you have an extreeme case IMO, but if you are not coming from Plasma you may notice it more on top of the other things that are different between Plasma and LCD.....

There is nothing wrong with findsing out a certain TV\Tech isnt for you, happens all the time smile.gif the only one that needs to be happy is you and your family...I wish you luck in finding a new TV....
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