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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 15

post #421 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

So are you getting all the CEC and ARC to work correctly?
The only issue I have with mine is now when I turn everything off with just the power button on the samsung remote everything turns off correctly except like 10 seconds later the stereo turns back on and goes to the arc input for audio.
Same thing happens on 2 stereos I tried Pioneer VSX-30 and Yamaha RX-A820

Haven't tried using the Samsung remote to control the receiver but ARC audio switching works fine. The Samsung remote leaves a lot to be desired in its small form factor for me to use it universally.
post #422 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

It depends on how soon you want to get that 200 hours done.
If you only have it on 8 hours a day that 200 hours will take 25 days.
I left my Samsung on 24/7 for the first 10 days with the ID channel
for overnight (any channel with a semi transparent logo will do.
The screen wiper is the most aggressive method
to age the phosphors.

I'm new to the Plasma world and this will be my first set.
I would like to know why should I do that? what will I gain and to prevent what of leaving the plasma on for day's?
Are you referring to a screen burn in?
post #423 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddmania View Post


I'm new to the Plasma world and this will be my first set.
I would like to know why should I do that? what will I gain and to prevent what of leaving the plasma on for day's?
Are you referring to a screen burn in?
It's not required. smile.gif

What you should do for a few hundred hours is be sure you are not watching the same fixed image for long periods of time. I've got to go watch a movie now, but you can read more by clicking here.
post #424 of 11477
Any update on the review? Can't wait to hear what Chad has to say about it.
post #425 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

Any update on the review? Can't wait to hear what Chad has to say about it.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1450401/samsung-f8500-new-industry-standard/1230#post_23125865
post #426 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

OK here you go. Its hard to get fast motion on camera but like I always say it looks way better in person and I didn't see any flaws on the ice. No fluctations or popping smile.gif



Here is a small video using a Galaxy Nexus http://sdrv.ms/YbtzPB

You are the man. Thanks for this. One step closer to getting this tv.
post #427 of 11477
Thread Starter 
Review: Samsung PN-64F8500 plasma


When I arrived at Cleveland Plasma to check out this latest beauty from Samsung, Chris could barely contain himself as he told me of the excitement the F8500 has been generating online. Big improvements over last year's E series were expected, and specifics were just beginning to trickle in. I was appreciative of Samsung's previous lines, though I admit feeling somewhat let down at the E series' limited brightness and lack of substantial improvement over the D series. Chris said it looked like the F series was going to change all that, and he was right on the money.

This is an attractive TV, with a narrow pewter bezel, slim profile, and a tiny, top mounted Skype camera. The remote is a small but solid-feeling clickable touchpad device.

The screen soaks up ambient light very well. With very bright ceiling lights on, reflections were dark and well suppressed. I could see myself looking at the screen with some effort, but my reflection appeared to be a mostly featureless silhouette.

I could hear a small amount of buzzing very close to the screen, though by about a 6 foot distance the whirring of a Blu Ray player masked the slight buzzing with most content. Some bright test patterns, like the ANSI checkerboard pattern, generated a little more buzzing that was audible from 8 or 9 feet. This can vary from one set to the next, but it is safe to say it will not be an issue on this sample.

The viewing angle is perfect from side to side, and as long as you don't stand close to a F8500 that is on the floor you shouldn't be bothered by any dimming in the vertical direction.

Before calibration:


Standard

The F8500 initially defaults to Standard mode, which looked a bit etched and artificially enhanced. Pans had the uber-smooth soap opera feel, though at times motion broke up and appeared choppy. Despite the fact that still images looked excessively grainy, it appeared that strong noise reduction was at work with moving images, making them smoother but somewhat smeared. The picture lacked stability, with brightness pumping and flashing apparent at times. Colors were vibrant and fairly pleasing, though not quite lifelike and natural. Whites appeared bright, bluish, and somewhat flat; and brightly lit faces were overexposed and suffered from a caked on makeup look. Deep blacks and fairly good shadow detail hinted of good things to come, but this display's as-delivered state hardly puts it's best foot forward.

Relax

Relax was quite similar to Standard, though without the overexposed look. Colors popped and skin tones were not as offensive as one might expect, though the overall look was more subdued and “doctored” than realistic.

Movie

Colors, which were respectable in the previous modes, improved quite a bit by switching over to Movie mode. They appeared much more realistic, though perhaps a bit pale in overall balance. In addition, the picture gained brightness and pop, and realism took a leap forward. However, depth could be a bit lacking, and whites had a bit of an off-white or greenish tinge. At times, I thought I glimpsed hints of the dirty screen effect, in which bright panning objects appeared smudged or dirty until they stop moving. Though to a much smaller degree than in the two previous modes, graininess with still images and glazed over motion were visible. Stability, contrast, and shadow detail were impressive. It appeared that Movie mode has some great qualities, though it was not quite seductively rich or lifelike yet.

Dynamic

Ugh... With it's cartoonish colors and gaudy whites, Dynamic wore thin in a hurry. However, it was bright and punchy, which will appeal to some at least in the short term.

Tweaks


A few simple things can be done by anyone to bring out significantly more performance in Movie mode. Turning sharpness down to half or less of it's starting position will reduce graininess, and with 1080 HD sources changing the Picture Size from 16:9 to Screen Fit will improve sharpness and eliminate overscan. In Picture options, changing Color Tone from Warm2 to Warm1 alleviates the off white and greenish tinge, and turning off the other various “enhancements” found there will increase the accuracy of the picture. Finally, in the advanced settings, reducing gamma to -1 eliminated a slightly flat sensation. Later, after examining the measurements, I was surprised at this since gamma was already quite high, but I did feel it made an improvement short of a more complete calibration with the aid of test equipment. After making these simple changes, without the aid of test patterns of any kind, the F8500's performance improved significantly. Thus configured and viewed in a light controlled room, the F8500 is a real head turner.

Black levels

The richness of blacks and contrast is arguably the toughest test for any display, and traditionally a good plasma will outperform a conventional LED in that regard. While last year's E series took a timid step forward, there is no doubt the F8500's blacks take a more confident leap ahead. In Movie mode's picture options, a selection called Black optimizer does seem to make the blacks darker when set to Dark room. In that setting, the black level, which appeared excellent before, improved even further; coaxing what appears to be state of the art black level performance out of the F8500. Do the blacks appear illuminated with the lights out in the Dark room setting? Yes; not even the last run of Elite Kuros could claim otherwise. However, the F8500 is so good that nearly any significant picture content made the blacks appear extremely or even totally devoid of light, which is a significant accomplishment. Bright objects appear to come out of a velvety, inky black background. However, the extra darkness comes at the price of stability. Later testing revealed that Dark room caused dynamic fluctuation of the blacks, so it will be a judgment call on whether to take advantage of that circuitry.

Black levels were measured with a C6 meter profiled with a Jeti 1211 reference spectro to the F8500.

Black level measured .0069 fL with Black optimizer off and a 1080P/60 source. With the Black optimizer set to Dark room or Auto, it measured .0025 fL. With 1080P/24 and cinema smooth on, black level was .0072/.0025 fL, which is not significantly different. With Black Optimizer set to either auto or Dark room, Movie mode's modified ANSI contrast ratio was 7436:1, at 34.95/.0047 fL. That was further evidence of some black level floating, as the black level on a dark screen was significantly lower than black level of the checkerboard. Because of this fluctuating black level in the Dark room setting, I made the decision to do the calibration in Movie mode with the Black optimizer off. As calibrated, with Black optimizer off, the modified ANSI contrast ratio measured 6034:1, at 38.62/.0064 fL.

Calibration

After going into the service menu, I opened up the Cal-Day and Cal-Night modes, which are normally not present in the TV's menu. In a departure from previous Samsungs, these modes, before calibration, produced one of the worst, most peculiar pictures I've seen yet on a modern plasma. After resetting some curiously strange settings, things looked much, much better.

The F8500 is a light output heavyweight, breaking records in my experience for large plasmas. Light output could have been as high as 58 fL after calibration in Movie mode, though I backed that down to about 51 fL after viewing some program material. Cal-Day could be calibrated up to an astonishing 84.1 fL, but otherwise behaved similarly to Movie mode once the proper groundwork was laid. The light output with a 100% full white screen was a super strong 23.4 fL. Cal-Day could reach well into the 40's with the ANSI checkerboard pattern, which is a record in my experience. These are wonderful numbers for hockey fans, because the F8500 will maintain brightness better when showing a bright rink than any other plasma I know of. It's also great news for those who have brighter rooms, because the F8500 will remain punchy when other plasmas begin to look bland.

Calibration of Movie mode was straightforward, until I got to the CMS adjustment. In the past year, thanks to advances in software capability, I've transitioned from calibrating only fully saturated colors to focusing more on 75% saturations at 75% luminance, which gives a better approximation of real world picture content. With the F8500, it's just not possible to accurately calibrate the CMS at 75% saturation; it's color gamut shrinks as saturation is reduced. I ended up targeting somewhere in between the old standard of 100% saturation/75% luminance and 75% saturation/75% luminance. What I got was a perfectly acceptable compromise, with all color saturation delta errors below about 2, but with slightly pale shades below full purity.

Unlike the E series, the F8500 goes blue the more load is placed on the ABL circuitry by progressively larger measurement windows. This is subjectively more pleasing than the more earthy tone the E series exhibited with bright scenes. In my estimation, good window sizes to use for calibration seem to be either 5% conventional windows or approximately 18% APL windows.

With a 1080P/24 signal and Cinema Smooth engaged, my meter synced at around 96 Hz.

Cinema Smooth caused a significant shift in gamma and white balance, adding an average of 3 dE to the grayscale run. Because of this, it may be desirable to either send a Blu Ray signal to a dedicated input, put up with some motion judder by leaving Cinema Smooth off if you're not much of a movie watcher, or calibrate with Cinema Smooth on and let TV content be a bit less accurate.

After calibration:


How does the F8500 look after all the tweaks have been made? Majestic, with bright scenes oodling pop and excitement like I've never seen on a large plasma. It's textures are smooth, devoid of graininess. Colors look very lifelike, but on the polite side of accurate. Blacks and contrast are excellent, though not a substitute for the late, great Kuro king. The black bars are just visible with letterbox movies, but only in a dark room. Because of the way bright objects change our perception, the bars tend to be more visible with dark movie scenes than bright ones. Shadow detail is superb, looking correct in intensity and neutral in color. Resolution and sharpness are as good as I've seen.

I've calibrated many Panasonic 65VT50s, with the last one being just a couple of days ago. Though I did not have one available for a side by side comparison, I know it extremely well and can give impressions of how it and the F8500 compare.

Compared to the VT50 calibrated in the normal fashion of ISF Day using mid panel brightness, the F8500 is punchier in bright scenes. It is also a bit smoother, especially up close. The VT50 has slightly superior color accuracy, though it looks a bit more “hot” and colored with skin tones than the F8500's more relaxed color palette. If you are easily offended by the sunburnt look skin tones have on many displays, the F8500's less saturated but still seductive colors will be like a soothing balm on your eyes. The VT50's blacks are superior, though subjectively they appear extremely close. Dark movie scenes in dark rooms may show the VT50's slightly superior blacks. Motion quality will depend on if you use Cinema Smooth or not, but I prefer the VT50's motion overall. The F8500's edge in brightness makes it superior in slightly brighter rooms or if you just like brighter images.

The F8500 is a winner, with special appeal to lovers of bright and punchy images. It's color was very natural and easy on the eyes, and over all it's performance keeps pace with the very best.

Chad B

Samsung 64F8500 movie.pdf 785k .pdf file
Edited by Cleveland Plasma - 3/26/13 at 6:07am
post #428 of 11477
^^^^

Thanks Chris but this old news. smile.gif
post #429 of 11477
Old for some, but you may only subscribe to this thread and when using an device just looking at subscribed threads, its welcome to have it here too wink.gif
post #430 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

And you're not buying a LCD display why...?

I tried the60es8000 and I felt it had too many issues. Clouding, flash lighting on the edges, motion issues - particularly stuttering. Additionally the whole CE dimming was annoying. I loved the quality of the picture, the sharpness and pop, and the soap opera effect. But when you crank up AMP the picture went to hell. I feel that for the money I was paying there are just too many issues to deal with. So I'm moving to plasma. The 60F8500 seems like a great set and maybe best of both worlds, but I want to know if the soap opera effect can be achieved and also if the picture gives you a little pop, like an LCD? Also, it seemed like the blue ray we were watching at the store seemed a little grainy. Is that inherent of plasma or maybe just the movie which was an Indiana Jones movie? I know sometimes it's the movie and we didn't have another blue ray to test at the time. If anyone can answer these questions I would appreciate it.

Thanks!
post #431 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Old for some, but you may only subscribe to this thread and when using an device just looking at subscribed threads, its welcome to have it here too wink.gif

It was a joke, man & I hope Chris gets it. See, he posts this only minutes after Chad posted it and I write, "Old news"! Ha, ha, wink, wink, nudge, nudge -- oh never mind.
post #432 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzakos1 View Post

I tried the60es8000 and I felt it had too many issues. Clouding, flash lighting on the edges, motion issues - particularly stuttering. Additionally the whole CE dimming was annoying. I loved the quality of the picture, the sharpness and pop, and the soap opera effect. But when you crank up AMP the picture went to hell. I feel that for the money I was paying there are just too many issues to deal with. So I'm moving to plasma. The 60F8500 seems like a great set and maybe best of both worlds, but I want to know if the soap opera effect can be achieved and also if the picture gives you a little pop, like an LCD? Also, it seemed like the blue ray we were watching at the store seemed a little grainy. Is that inherent of plasma or maybe just the movie which was an Indiana Jones movie? I know sometimes it's the movie and we didn't have another blue ray to test at the time. If anyone can answer these questions I would appreciate it.

Thanks!

Yes, You will definitely get the soap opera effect If you want it and gives you plenty of pop like an LCD in my opinion. It was definitely the Bluray you were watching that was grainy because I have seen MIB3 and Skyfall and no grain was noticeable. Try going back and bring your own Bluray to watch and ask If you can put in movie mode and set motion judder canceller to standard or smooth and you will get the soap opera effect you are looking for without any grain.
post #433 of 11477
Surfmlb - I noticed the issue last night about the HDMI CEC connection turning back on the receiver after powering down the TV. Happened about 1min after powering down where the receiver powered back on by itself and changed its input to TV but no sound came out.

I'm using a Pioneer VSX-1123 so it seems we both have the same issue.
post #434 of 11477
Just letting you all know, I walked into a best buy last night. And after eventually convincing the worker to look in the back. He came out with a pn60f8500...... it wasn't in their system at all, but when he scanned it it went through.... I might have bought their display model, oh well...... I'm happy.... I have it back home playing movies on repeat to get past the crucial 100 hour mark.
post #435 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Yes, You will definitely get the soap opera effect If you want it and gives you plenty of pop like an LCD in my opinion. It was definitely the Bluray you were watching that was grainy because I have seen MIB3 and Skyfall and no grain was noticeable. Try going back and bring your own Bluray to watch and ask If you can put in movie mode and set motion judder canceller to standard or smooth and you will get the soap opera effect you are looking for without any grain.

Thanks so much for your input. It's definately what I wanted to hear.
post #436 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by altagracia57 View Post

Surfmlb - I noticed the issue last night about the HDMI CEC connection turning back on the receiver after powering down the TV. Happened about 1min after powering down where the receiver powered back on by itself and changed its input to TV but no sound came out.

I'm using a Pioneer VSX-1123 so it seems we both have the same issue.

Yeah thats the ARC-audio return channel when it changes input to TV is my guess. So maybe the TV is doing something to talk to receiver after it shuts down. Maybe its the voice recognition setting. I will try and disable that.
They need a good remote app because that remote is a PITA for certain functions.
post #437 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Yeah thats the ARC-audio return channel when it changes input to TV is my guess. So maybe the TV is doing something to talk to receiver after it shuts down. Maybe its the voice recognition setting. I will try and disable that.
They need a good remote app because that remote is a PITA for certain functions.

Does it come with the touch remote and the standard one?
post #438 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzakos1 View Post

Does it come with the touch remote and the standard one?
No, just the one with the track pad in the middle.
post #439 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

It was a joke, man & I hope Chris gets it. See, he posts this only minutes after Chad posted it and I write, "Old news"! Ha, ha, wink, wink, nudge, nudge -- oh never mind.

I know and tus the added "wink" in my post biggrin.gif
post #440 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I know and tus the added "wink" in my post biggrin.gif

smile.gif It's all good!
post #441 of 11477
Can any of you new owners tell me if the remote included is an RF remote or a Bluetooth remote????
Also can you use a bluetooth keyboard with or without mouse pad???, like with a dongle in a USB port???

Thanx guys,

Rob

PS The keyboard would be used for the browser in the smarthub, I have a D8000 now and input into the
smarthub browser is abominably terrible.
And CANT use an external blutooth keyboard.
Edited by cooknl - 3/26/13 at 1:19pm
post #442 of 11477
I posted this question in another F8500 thread but it was not answered.

I have never owned a plasma and the F8500 has my interest. If I go plasma this time, it will be my first. From reading about IR and burn-in, I get nervous.

My wife loves watching HGTV all day as she is working in the home. On HGTV there is a logo that is displayed on the lower right of the picture and it will be there all day virtually everyday.

In your opinion, under this situation, would it be better for me to stick with an LED vs Plasma?
post #443 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

I posted this question in another F8500 thread but it was not answered.

I have never owned a plasma and the F8500 has my interest. If I go plasma this time, it will be my first. From reading about IR and burn-in, I get nervous.

My wife loves watching HGTV all day as she is working in the home. On HGTV there is a logo that is displayed on the lower right of the picture and it will be there all day virtually everyday.

In your opinion, under this situation, would it be better for me to stick with an LED vs Plasma?
I would under those circumstances. I don't think there is a way to fight having the same logo on the screen several hours every day. You would never catch up. I preach mixed sources, and it sounds like more than 50% of your TV time is exposing the display to the same fixed image.

It's might be a good idea to check out Samsung's new LED/LCD displays. They may have as much improvement as their new plasmas seem to have.
post #444 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

I posted this question in another F8500 thread but it was not answered.

I have never owned a plasma and the F8500 has my interest. If I go plasma this time, it will be my first. From reading about IR and burn-in, I get nervous.

My wife loves watching HGTV all day as she is working in the home. On HGTV there is a logo that is displayed on the lower right of the picture and it will be there all day virtually everyday.

In your opinion, under this situation, would it be better for me to stick with an LED vs Plasma?

If you dont vary your programming then yes it may be better to go with LCD....You can always zoom to take away the logo, but this introduces other issues......If you are talking 5-6 hours of "hard" logo vewing Plasma may not be the best, but then again there are those with Plasmas that dont ahve issues with IR and watch tv with logos......if you keep reading these forums you will get OCD about things though as this subset of owners teds to be fanatic about these subjects....There are millions of people who use the sets and dont do anything....
post #445 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

I posted this question in another F8500 thread but it was not answered.

I have never owned a plasma and the F8500 has my interest. If I go plasma this time, it will be my first. From reading about IR and burn-in, I get nervous.

My wife loves watching HGTV all day as she is working in the home. On HGTV there is a logo that is displayed on the lower right of the picture and it will be there all day virtually everyday.

In your opinion, under this situation, would it be better for me to stick with an LED vs Plasma?

I just watched HGTV for about 10 min and it does have a solid green logo they don't run it all the time
but most of the time.
It's a tough call from what you describe how the wife will use the tv especially
before it gets past the 200 hours mark.
You can run the white screen wiper over night if you see IR from that logo.
If you get the F8500 make 100% sure about the return window just in case you want to
swap it for the F8000 LED.
post #446 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I would under those circumstances. I don't think there is a way to fight having the same logo on the screen several hours every day. You would never catch up. I preach mixed sources, and it sounds like more than 50% of your TV time is exposing the display to the same fixed image.

It's might be a good idea to check out Samsung's new LED/LCD displays. They may have as much improvement as their new plasmas seem to have.

htwaits

Thanks for the input. That was my thought also but I wanted to see if my thinking was correct.

I will order the 65F8000
post #447 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

I just watched HGTV for about 10 min and it does have a solid green logo they don't run it all the time
but most of the time.
It's a tough call from what you describe how the wife will use the tv especially
before it gets past the 200 hours mark.
You can run the white screen wiper over night if you see IR from that logo.
If you get the F8500 make 100% sure about the return window just in case you want to
swap it for the F8000 LED.

I will probably play safe and go with the F8000 LED
post #448 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post


htwaits

Thanks for the input. That was my thought also but I wanted to see if my thinking was correct.

I will order the 65F8000
You're welcome. Enjoy. tongue.gif
post #449 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw View Post

htwaits

Thanks for the input. That was my thought also but I wanted to see if my thinking was correct.

I will order the 65F8000

I think that's a better bet for what you watch too, Jim. I need to be more observant in what my wife watches too in making my decision.

I don't know what your budget is, but the Sony XBR950 is a full array display that would probably outperform the F8000 in terms of black levels.
post #450 of 11477
Thread Starter 
It does depend though. You could probably zoom out the logo. If she doesn't care, plasma is cheaper and better in most cases. That is an easy fix there.

The other option is, if you watch 8 hours with the logo, 8 hours without the logo, the screen would recycle back to normal for another day of use. Depending on how you will use your TV in a average day.
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