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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 156

post #4651 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungro View Post

It seems to me that is a hardware fault not software. Zoyd a member on these forums mentioned that panasonic uses a one pulse method for precharging the cells in the plasma, but samsung uses 2 hence why you see this type of brightening. I am not exactly sure if I am explaning this correctly but that pretty much tells me it's a hardware fault. Just a different driving method with is more noticeable in black level change. If someone can find Zoyd's quote or better yet Zoyd if you care to explain??? then this might answer the brightness pops, i could also be talking about two different issues rolleyes.gif

This is all starting to sound a lot like the Sharp Elite cyan fix that was promised but then never delivered due to the problem being more complicated than originally thought. At the time, Robert was certain a fix would be released for that issue too. I hope we're not going down that path again.
Edited by grxz - 5/5/13 at 12:31pm
post #4652 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post


not should "could" be the one but, per Damien who downloaded it yesterday, it didnt fix them for him.......

you are correct yam this was up yesterday.....

Robert isnt sure becasue of the changing in the numebrs of the firmwares that were relaesed and as far as I have seen him post openly, he has not heard back from Samsung to confirm if either of the firmware releases were "the" fix owners are looking for.....

i still see pops with the update during hockey but have not seen it anywhere else yet
post #4653 of 11474
Holy jeepers creepers see that we are still going in circles here.....guess some just cant help themselves still


Samsung has never publicly acknowledged that there is indeed an issue
The only sourcee we have that a fix is coming is form Robert at VE who had Samsung Engineers come to the store to test the firmware fixes and updates
At this point the actual number of the firmware to fix said issues is unknown
We have seen CNets review where they did not see fluctuations and had the firmware (1017.2) that was the supposed fix for these flucuations.
If you are waiting for this update becasue this is a major issue to you then IMO I would return the TV, I would never base keeping or buying a TV based on something that "could" come down the road
There are some owners who dont see the flucutations or pops and we have seen where sttings\mode\calibration have all but eliminated the issues that the firmware fix is for

The best thing you can do is wait, I would not download the firmware from Samsungs site and rather wait for an automatic update to occur, it may take longer, but this is just personal prefference until there is more known about what firmware does what.
I still dont see them fixing everything as some of it has to do with ABL and just cant be defeated.
post #4654 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

I can't even get the file recognized with the tv. didn't have any problem w/ 1101 when I did it. just a refresh but do I extract the file before it's on the thunbdrive or when it's on there? or not at all? usually if it's just in the file folder your good right?

yes extract the file first then move the extracted file to your usb stick and you should have no problem installing it
post #4655 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

i still see pops with the update during hockey but have not seen it anywhere else yet

Did you see it in other content before? I know there were some that did.
post #4656 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Did you see it in other content before? I know there were some that did.

yes i saw pops from different sources and different content. From directv to playing a dvd on my ps3 I saw pops. I need to play Life Of Pi later. That has been a great torture test for popping. Also the 3D blu ray of Alice In Wonderland popped like crazy but much less in CAL DAY mode.
post #4657 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

yes i saw pops from different sources and different content. From directv to playing a dvd on my ps3 I saw pops. I need to play Life Of Pi later. That has been a great torture test for popping. Also the 3D blu ray of Alice In Wonderland popped like crazy but much less in CAL DAY mode.

Thanks Damien, appreciate the leg work you are putting in n this. I just want to see if it is more pronounced (which it usually is in hockey) or if you are still seeing it as much with the other content as well.

As Ive said before even if they do have a "fix" the true test would be when it comes out to the public as tehre are many different setups and media being played. Its near impossible for a company to test all of the different things that could be brought up once released.
post #4658 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

If it's that easy why haven't the D and E series models been cured of the brightness pops then? unless of course there's suddenly been a breakthrough.

Well, in my case, they have until the shootout to fix it or I'll have to return it. Although initially very promising, it appears this years crop of plasma's have some serious issues...and it's not just about picky AVS people, the issues are real and they are not minor.

LED is not an option in my house because people do not sit together on one couch directly in front of the tv....everyone likes their space and are sprawled out all around the room. They also could be watching from the kitchen or the dining room or even the lanai. Until another technology produces a quality picture that can be viewed from a variety of angles, the only functional choice in my house is plasma.

Sooooo, if the ZT60 is not spectacular and Samsung does not provide a good fix for the F8500, I'll just get a basic under $1000 60" plasma and wait for something better to come along.

For now, I'm rooting for both Samsung and Panasonic to get things right with their flagship panels, if not, I will not be spending big bucks on a tv, that's for sure mad.gif
post #4659 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Holy jeepers creepers see that we are still going in circles here.....guess some just cant help themselves still
If you are trying to insinuate something, whatever, holmes. This is an open discussion, and no one was upset until you jumped in.
post #4660 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Thanks Damien, appreciate the leg work you are putting in n this. I just want to see if it is more pronounced (which it usually is in hockey) or if you are still seeing it as much with the other content as well.

As Ive said before even if they do have a "fix" the true test would be when it comes out to the public as tehre are many different setups and media being played. Its near impossible for a company to test all of the different things that could be brought up once released.

I just saw a pop on directv. it was during a commercial that had an all white background. I can confirm the pop happens in movie and cal day mode with contrast at 95
post #4661 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

I just saw a pop on directv. it was during a commercial that had an all white background. I can confirm the pop happens in movie and cal day mode with contrast at 95
I think you can forgive it during a commercial unless you watch them religiously (assuming it wasn't DirecTV). wink.gif Hockey viewing or anything else that consumes your escapist time might be a different story.
post #4662 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I think you can forgive it during a commercial unless you watch them religiously (assuming it wasn't DirecTV). wink.gif Hockey viewing or anything else that consumes your escapist time might be a different story.

I dont forgive it because it shows this tv cant handle a bright white background without popping.
post #4663 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

I just saw a pop on directv. it was during a commercial that had an all white background. I can confirm the pop happens in movie and cal day mode with contrast at 95

All white backgrounds are going to have ABL changes, Ive seen this on the VT60 as well. It will never be totally gotten rid of as its part of the Plasma tech now, I think we need to deermine what would be considered "normal" and what can be considered "bad"........
post #4664 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

If you are trying to insinuate something, whatever, holmes. This is an open discussion, and no one was upset until you jumped in.

holmes? Im not trying to insinute anything, but as always you can take my words as you want....and Im not upset far from it.
post #4665 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

If you are trying to insinuate something, whatever, holmes. This is an open discussion, and no one was upset until you jumped in.

eek.gif
post #4666 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

All white backgrounds are going to have ABL changes, Ive seen this on the VT60 as well. It will never be totally gotten rid of as its part of the Plasma tech now, I think we need to deermine what would be considered "normal" and what can be considered "bad"........

Yes but dont you think the ABL should be more subtle and smooth? Instead of a quick jump up in brightness let it be a slow fade or something like that. Then it would not be so noticeable. The quick 1,2 or 1,2,3 brightness jump is very distracting.
Edited by Damien Inferno - 5/5/13 at 1:57pm
post #4667 of 11474
Why cal day/night modes are not an option in European models? When will they be open?
post #4668 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Why cal day/night modes are not an option in European models? When will they be open?

I dont know about the European models but I can tell you with the American models to use the CAL modes you need to go into the service menu to activate them. Be warned you can damage your tv if you don't know what you are doing.
post #4669 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

yes extract the file first then move the extracted file to your usb stick and you should have no problem installing it

the other odd thing is when I go to the software update, I can't chose manual update so I can use my thumbdrive. I only have auto update on/off option and update now option. I can't use my thumbdrive as it doesn't see it. any ideas, I didn't have this issue with 1101.
post #4670 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

Yes but dont you think the ABL should be more subtle? Instead of a quick jump up in brightness let it be a slow fade or something like that. Then it would not be so noticeable. The quick 1,2 or 1,2,3 brightness jump is very distracting.

I totally agree. What I saw on the VT60 was a quick change, just as people are describing with the F8500. it wasnt a multistep process but rather a brightining\diming especially when menus are broguht up. It caught me off gaurd since I was so close to the TV, but didnt notice it as much when I was at a normal distance...

This goes now becsue you are looking for it specifically would you really see some of these adjustemnts if you were just watching the content. the only true test is to have someone watch the set and not tell them about it to see if they bring it up.

I am hoping that Samsung does come out with a fix for this as I know the owners here are trying to get the best out of their set, but Im always hesitent to put confidence in any fix being complete since the testing that is done usually for QA\QC is done on a much smaller scope......
post #4671 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

To activate the CAL modes you need to go into the service menu to activate them. Be warned you can damage your tv if you don't know what you are doing.

CalDay\calNight I think are disabled completely for EU models, even when they get access to the SM, they are not able to turn them on.
post #4672 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

the other odd thing is when I go to the software update, I can't chose manual update so I can use my thumbdrive. I only have auto update on/off option and update now option. I can't use my thumbdrive as it doesn't see it. any ideas, I didn't have this issue with 1101.

Do you have both firmwares on the stick? I would assume only one and that you ahve the update file in the root of the USB though. I might try formatting and or a different USB to see if that works for you.
post #4673 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

the other odd thing is when I go to the software update, I can't chose manual update so I can use my thumbdrive. I only have auto update on/off option and update now option. I can't use my thumbdrive as it doesn't see it. any ideas, I didn't have this issue with 1101.

Hmmm i dunno. I simply put the update on a usb stick , stuck it into my tv and then went to software update and it asked me if it wanted to download the usb content i clicked yes and then it installed it.
It will probably be available for auto update after a day or so just like 1101 was so you will be able to get it then.
post #4674 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

holmes? Im not trying to insinute anything, but as always you can take my words as you want....and Im not upset far from it.
Homie, bro, fella. wink.gif You seemed to be upset with recent discourse, sorry if that impression was incorrect.
post #4675 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Do you have both firmwares on the stick? I would assume only one and that you ahve the update file in the root of the USB though. I might try formatting and or a different USB to see if that works for you.

yeah make sure you delete 1101 off the stick before you install 1102. Thats what I did. Maybe the tv is confused because it sees 2 updates on the stick?
post #4676 of 11474
Somebody on here said its impossible to watch basketball on this tv because of popping. Ive been watching the Knicks Pacers game on abc via directv all afternoon and haven't seen any popping at all. im in movie mode contrast at 95.
post #4677 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Homie, bro, fella. wink.gif You seemed to be upset with recent discourse, sorry if that impression was incorrect.

Nope I dont get upset over forum antics wink.gif it does become tiresome, but thats the extent of it.smile.gif
post #4678 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien Inferno View Post

Somebody on here said its impossible to watch basketball on this tv because of popping. Ive been watching the Knicks Pacers game on abc via directv all afternoon and haven't seen any popping at all. im in movie mode contrast at 95.

They were seeing camera flashes and though it was the "pop" that everyone was talking about....I think that got cleared up within a few posts..They were also seeing the camera flashes (strobes) in hockey and thought it was the same thing. This of course is just form memory so I may be wrong.....
post #4679 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

They were seeing camera flashes and though it was the "pop" that everyone was talking about....I think that got cleared up within a few posts..They were also seeing the camera flashes (strobes) in hockey and thought it was the same thing. This of course is just form memory so I may be wrong.....

Well I certainly see it in hockey but not one bit in basketball thankfully. People need to realize that in hockey as well as basketball when a strobe goes off its a quick flash. With a pop you see either a 1,2 or 1,2,3 brightness jump.
Edited by Damien Inferno - 5/5/13 at 2:39pm
post #4680 of 11474
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

I decided to take Ph8te's advice and check out the VT60 in person at Magnolia. I was lucky to have a truly fantastic salesman help me out. A 64" F8500 was directly above the a 60" VT60 and we spent almost an hour comparing the two panels in virtually every way possible. Here are my observations:

The first thing I must mention is that we have a VT50 in our bedroom, if you are familiar with that tv, you will be familiar with the VT60...to be perfectly honest, I could not tell the difference, although I did prefer the all glass design of the VT60. Aesthetically, it is a beautiful tv and would look great in any room. I should also mention the VT60 was only in the store for 3 days and had not even been broken in yet.

My salesman said the best way to compare tv's is not to just try the same settings and compare the picture, but to also put them through extremes and see how they perform. He started with the out of the box standard mode on the F8500 and the THX mode on the VT60. If you have experienced a horrible picture with the standard settings in the past, you will not with these tv's. Both looked very normal...not deformed in any way.

The first thing you notice is that although the VT60 has an all glass design, it is the F8500 that provides the effect of looking through a pane of glass. There is a slight haze with the VT60 that you do not see in the F8500. From a clarity and detail standpoint, we both preferred the F8500. You could see the gleam in peoples eyes form a distance on the F8500, while you could only see that gleam on close up views of a persons face on the VT60. Colors looked great on both sets. One advantage the VT60 had, as Ken had mentioned, is that you could see a little more detail through the blacks....better shadow detail. I specifically looked for that and had to point it out to the salesman for him to notice it. One other thing that could be considered an advantage is that the VT60 is not as bright in daylight scenes and not as dark in nighttime scenes, so the transition form light to dark is more comfortable. Although we both much preferred the F8500 overall, I would probably give the VT60 the advantage in dark scenes.

The salesman said now lets have some fun and put the tv's in a variety of extreme modes...maxing out the gamma and contrast etc... He was trying to show me how he could still get a clean, although extremely bright, picture by tweaking the settings. He cranked up the lights and in that environment, the F8500 dominated. The clearest, brightest picture you could imagine...with great detail. The Vt60 does not have the ability to do that...it looked fuzzy and washed out. In a bright environment the F8500 is just spectacular. On the other side of the coin, when reducing the settings to minimum levels, the F8500 could still be adjusted to produce a nice picture, but the blacks were more dominate than on the VT60. At very dim levels, the VT60 gets the nod.

ABL, popping, or whatever you call it, was visible on both sets in the extreme bright modes. You can see it more clearly on the F8500, in part because the the picture itself it's so much clearer in those modes. I didn't even notice it on the VT60 until the salesman said "there it is!". What we viewed did not produce very much ABL so I can't really give an a thorough comparison on that issue.

Finally, the salesman insisted I check the smart stuff, which has been so feeble in the past, I didn't really care, but I'm glad I did. The F8500 is so much better than anything you have experienced. To my surprise it was very fast and functional. The biggest surprise of all was how stunning HD YouTube videos looked...I was not expected it to look so perfect. It really blew me away. That was not the case with the VT60....yuck...no comparison. Okay, that's all, I've written enough. Thanks for your time : )


It's almost unbelievable to read your personal viewing of these two tv's w/ a salesman & then mine. I wrote mine having not read yours at all & I'm sure you probably didn't read mine when writing yours. We use different adjectives & verbiage but it's clear we both seen & reported the exact same things. Reading your post just reaffirms everything I wrote to myself. They read almost identically.
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