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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 158

post #4711 of 11454
Ken, you didn't note in your latest Magnolia viewing whether black optimizer was on or off on the F8500. Presumably it was on, but it would be interesting to know if the black bar fluctuations were still evident with the optimizer off. Also, the jacket test probably put you pretty close to the screen; I wonder how noticeable the fluctuations are from a reasonable viewing distance. Hopefully, the expected firmware update will eliminate these fluctuations.
post #4712 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi59 View Post

Add to that

Samsungs are more reliable than Pannys (based on my calibrators information)

24 frame mode actually works well on the Sammy this year.. Pannys have had flicker issues even at 96hz.

a comment from what you said and from the earlier post you quoted from points below



"Once professionally calibrated I'm sure the PQ difference will b subjective anyway, they're both clearly awesome sets, hey are flagships for the brand. So if you're on the fence you will drive yourself nuts debating the PQ. Maybe form your decision around some factors the calibrators can't nullify.

- 3D performance (Samsung is best in market.. plus comes with 4 sets of glasses)
- Motion handling (Samsung wins)
- Image retention (a clear win for Sammy again)
- price for the size
- design aesthetics
- warranty
- interactive features (smart TV, etc)

Stuff like that."


It doubtful that a buyer at this price point would be buying the TV for interactive features and I cant imagine the couple of hundred dollars difference in pricing that there typically is between these is going to sway much either.
The glasses that come with the Samsung are $20.00...and they feel very cheap. They can be bought for less and they will work with the Panasonic. Though I dont think the 3D performance in the two is going to really sway a buyer either

I thought they had the same warranty?

Motion handling and image retention ..IMO..are really the only two factors that could sway a buyer at this price. The BIG DEALS are color and black levels

Design aesthetics is completely subjective

where are you getting your info on reliability?

If you read back a couple of years...a lot of us..myself included had issues with the C8000 series plasmas. Three warranty claims on that TV
I bought the D8000 and they replaced the panel because a horizontal line formed on the display..when that didnt work they gave me a new E8000 to replace it

My D8000 experience might have been limited...but the C8000 was very common

On the other hand no issues( as of yet) with an ST50 and and old friend of mine has had a V10 for years with no issues


Warren
post #4713 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

It's really no different than comparing a 5-year-old Ferrari to a current Corvette. That older Ferrari may still surpass the Corvette in many ways. The point to me is that the Kuros were the best of breed at the time and any set that claims to be the best should be able to beat it. Kuros are references; that is all. The fact that you can't buy (a new) one is irrelevant. It's about being a reference.

+1

Though for the selling price I never thought the Kuro was worth that money...however no argument from me that it was( and is) a great display



Warren
post #4714 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

It's really no different than comparing a 5-year-old Ferrari to a current Corvette. That older Ferrari may still surpass the Corvette in many ways. The point to me is that the Kuros were the best of breed at the time and any set that claims to be the best should be able to beat it. Kuros are references; that is all. The fact that you can't buy (a new) one is irrelevant. It's about being a reference.

No it is not relevant any more. If it was on stores shelves then it would have been relevant. Why do we have to compare a new TV to something that has been discontinued. I'm talking in the perspective of the average user. Whats the point of bragging the features of something that is DEAD and GONE? Totally irrelevant

People should learn that once a technology is gone then it is gone. same thing for a brand.
I still find here and there people who are crying on Toshiba's HD DVD technology. Whats the point?
Live with what is available now and move on. Crying on a gone tech will do no one any benefit wink.gif
Edited by Halimali - 5/6/13 at 5:17am
post #4715 of 11454
It is relevant as a reference, otherwise reviewers and calibrators would have long stopped referencing it in their reviews and comparisons to this day. Blu-ray is as every bit as capable of HD DVD in PQ (even greater with its higher bandwidth), so those holding on to that battle are doing so for nothing other than sentimentality or having not overcome their anger at its untimely demise (plus the handful of exclusives the format still has wink.gif).

Are you guys going to go on a witch hunt every time someone brings up that fateful 4-letter word?
post #4716 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

It is relevant as a reference, otherwise reviewers and calibrators would have long stopped referencing it in their reviews and comparisons to this day. Blu-ray is as every bit as capable of HD DVD in PQ (even greater with its higher bandwidth), so those holding on to that battle are doing so for nothing other than sentimentality or having not overcome their anger at its untimely demise (plus the handful of exclusives the format still has wink.gif).

Are you guys going to go on a witch hunt every time someone brings up that fateful 4-letter word?

That is true, but not for normal consumers. it is for reviewers reference. When you compare this TV to your KING what is the purpose of that? you cant even advise anyone to buy it because it is not available anymore. That is my point. The comparison is irrelevant. probably you can advise someone to go for Panasonic's E-Ink TVs or some other available manufacturers. But not your king smile.gif

And by the way I don't like 4-letter words biggrin.gif
post #4717 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

It is relevant as a reference, otherwise reviewers and calibrators would have long stopped referencing it in their reviews and comparisons to this day. Blu-ray is as every bit as capable of HD DVD in PQ (even greater with its higher bandwidth), so those holding on to that battle are doing so for nothing other than sentimentality or having not overcome their anger at its untimely demise (plus the handful of exclusives the format still has wink.gif).

Are you guys going to go on a witch hunt every time someone brings up that fateful 4-letter word?

you mean the four letter word dead
but i do understand what going through but do you think Samsung or Panasonic are trying to make their TV's like a kuro i don't. each are developing their set with whats out there in the marketplace IMHO
Edited by bargervais - 5/6/13 at 5:42am
post #4718 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

dead

Dead and long buried too biggrin.gif
post #4719 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

dead
but i do understand what going through but do you think Samsung or Panasonic are trying to make their TV's like a kuro i don't. each are developing their set with whats out there in the marketplace IMHO

Sorry barge, but Ill ahve to disagree here, there is a reason Panasonic was touring the ZT with a Kuro beside it wink.gif
post #4720 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post


And by the way I don't like 4-letter words biggrin.gif

Wow Right ON!!!! LOL

Rob
post #4721 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Dead and long buried too biggrin.gif

not buried...due to the simple fact that people keep bringing it up as a reference point...in both the Samsung and Panasonic plasma forums

In regard to technology

I am not sure I can ever remember a long discontinued item being brought up as a reference to a current item for a mano a mano performance discussion

For the simple reason that performance moves so dramatically that the old item is like comparing a VCR to a blu ray player



Warren
post #4722 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Sorry barge, but Ill ahve to disagree here, there is a reason Panasonic was touring the ZT with a Kuro beside it wink.gif
eek.gif
stand corrected
post #4723 of 11454
The similarities between Kuro and ZT?

I guess they are the LAST TVs for their perspective manufacturers wink.gif

One thing is bad though that competition will no longer be there and consumers will suffer
post #4724 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

not buried...due to the simple fact that people keep bringing it up as a reference point...in both the Samsung and Panasonic plasma forums

In regard to technology

I am not sure I can ever remember a long discontinued item being brought up as a reference to a current item for a mano a mano performance discussion

For the simple reason that performance moves so dramatically that the old item is like comparing a VCR to a blu ray player



Warren

I guess it will be buried and so all the other plasma TVs if OLED has proved to be a much more superior technology. Then the movement will be gradual as prices go down for that new tech
post #4725 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

The similarities between Kuro and ZT?

I guess they are the LAST TVs for their perspective manufacturers wink.gif

One thing is bad though that competition will no longer be there and consumers will suffer

then when Panasonic stops making Plasma TV's it will be sad we need competition till OLED and 4K get to the market at a good price point
post #4726 of 11454
Note: Samsung themselves brought up the four-letter word earlier this year also. I believe it was at CES.

And another reason for bringing it up, Hali, is there are a handful of 4-letter word owners looking to upgrade this year, so how a new set performs in comparison *is* important to them as potential new customers.
post #4727 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

The similarities between Kuro and ZT?

I guess they are the LAST TVs for their perspective manufacturers wink.gif

One thing is bad though that competition will no longer be there and consumers will suffer

Panasonic must consider the Kuro to be "the TV reference" point

I would speculate they were trying to show that they had "met the reference standard"

On another note...it seems that making a reference Tv AND making a profit can be challenging

as Panasonic, Sony and Sharp are all losing money on their TV business


Warren
post #4728 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Panasonic must consider the Kuro to be "the TV reference" point

I would speculate they were trying to show that they had "met the reference standard"

On another note...it seems that making a reference Tv AND making a profit can be challenging

as Panasonic, Sony and Sharp are all losing money on their TV business


Warren

PANASONIC is losing big time not everyone can buy a three or four thousand dollar TV
post #4729 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

PANASONIC is losing big time not everyone can buy a three or four thousand dollar TV

It's like the business i'm in PRINTING. The trend is not so much quality but if the ink hits the sheet and price is lower then it's good enough. prices are down margins are lower people are price driven these days it' a sad reality.
post #4730 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

PANASONIC is losing big time not everyone can buy a three or four thousand dollar TV

yes...and its really more about making money( maybe 100% about it actually) than making what people think is a"reference" TV

LG is a perfect example of that.. they generally sell a lot of medium to lower end product and widely known as a value brand

I dont ever recall any of their TV's being the on "best of the best" list

However I wonder if those reference TV's are profitable.....Sony is dropping their full array LED...Sharp is dropping the Elite..Panasonic is on shaky ground

We all know the financial issues with Pioneer, both with the now defunct Tv business as well as issues with their home audio business

so to your point...profit is likely not in a high end TVs



Warren
post #4731 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Note: Samsung themselves brought up the four-letter word earlier this year also. I believe it was at CES.

And another reason for bringing it up, Hali, is there are a handful of 4-letter word owners looking to upgrade this year, so how a new set performs in comparison *is* important to them as potential new customers.

Agreed.

Why people continue to think that ALL existing Kuro owners have an agenda is beyond me. Is it that difficult to understand that some of us Kuro owners want the best . The last thing we want is to take a step backwards?

Honestly, I hope this years models are better than the old champ.

Not specifically singling your post out Vinnie, I agree with most of them. I too am looking to upgrade but I prefer not to go in reverse.
post #4732 of 11454
bargervais and turnne1, you guys are both making really excellent points here, because:

A) Panasonic doesn't make any TVs that cost less than $3,000 - $4,000.
B) The Samsung F8500 is a dirt-cheap TV that you can find at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

Oh, wait! Neither of those things are true. Never mind.......
post #4733 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Dead and long buried too biggrin.gif
Death for the purchase, but not entérré on image ...
Whatever happens, the Kuro has been much ink is still talking about the whole planet ... biggrin.gif
post #4734 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

The industry is taking note. The new Lumagen Processor is using the tech. Direct link - http://www.lumagen.com/docs/Radiance_2021_Brochure_030313.pdf

DarbeeVision has two US Patents:

7,995,835 Method and apparatus for altering two-dimensional images using three-dimensional information
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&S1=darbeevision&OS=darbeevision&RS=darbeevision

7,043,074 Method and apparatus for embedding three dimensional information into two-dimensional images
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=2&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&S1=darbeevision&OS=darbeevision&RS=darbeevision
post #4735 of 11454
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

then when Panasonic stops making Plasma TV's it will be sad we need competition till OLED and 4K get to the market at a good price point
That should be some time from now, they are stopping R and D, not the production of plasma's......
post #4736 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by MechanicalMan View Post

bargervais and turnne1, you guys are both making really excellent points here, because:

A) Panasonic doesn't make any TVs that cost less than $3,000 - $4,000.
B) The Samsung F8500 is a dirt-cheap TV that you can find at the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

Oh, wait! Neither of those things are true. Never mind.......

A. and still losing money..no matter what they are making
and its really all about making a profit..right?

B. Cheap is a relative word...to a Kuro owner..the F8500 is like half the price( not even inflation adjusted) of the Pioneer elite Kuro
....on the other hand does it make sense for Samsung to concentrate on their lower end plasma thats probably 80% of the sales volume( in their plasma line)?...A TV that an average buyer cant either see the difference in it and an F8500 TV, or in no way thinks its worth the price difference that exists between the two

If I were a betting man ...I would say there will be some further fall out in the TV business in the next year or two

Those making money and those that are not profitable,both slimmed down their lines for 2013



Warren
post #4737 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

That should be some time from now, they are stopping R and D, not the production of plasma's......

not sure if that is 100% correct

http://hdguru.com/breaking-news-panasonic-to-continue-plasma-tv-research-and-development/




Warren
post #4738 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

not sure if that is 100% correct

http://hdguru.com/breaking-news-panasonic-to-continue-plasma-tv-research-and-development/




Warren

its old news wink.gif really though no one knows for sure what they plan to do as the story has changed a few times since the inital "break" that they were positioning to move out of plasma. IMO they wont move out of Plasma until they can replace it with OLED, ocne they can, they will start to shut down the Plasma line as they can......
post #4739 of 11454
Oops sorry, wrong thread, I was looking for the Samsung F8500 thread, anyone know where it's gone?rolleyes.gif
post #4740 of 11454
Quote:
Originally Posted by koan View Post

Ken, you didn't note in your latest Magnolia viewing whether black optimizer was on or off on the F8500. Presumably it was on, but it would be interesting to know if the black bar fluctuations were still evident with the optimizer off. Also, the jacket test probably put you pretty close to the screen; I wonder how noticeable the fluctuations are from a reasonable viewing distance. Hopefully, the expected firmware update will eliminate these fluctuations.

I suspect you're right. I doubt the fluctuation I saw 2" from the screen would be nearly as noticeable as from an average viewing distance. The Black Optimizer was on, but I didn't check to see if the fluctuations were still present with it off.

I'm hoping, as you said, the firmware update takes care of these issues.
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