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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 162

post #4831 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitchman View Post

I can't tell you how happy I am to read this, Ken. I have been following this thread since day 1, because I have a UN60ES8000 that, due to poor screen uniformity and limited off axis viewing (that seemed to plague the 2012 Samsung LED models), I decided that I would take the hit to unload it at a loss and go with a PN64F8500. I love the brightness and pop of an LED (my room is very bright during the day) but until the F8500 came along I didn't think plasma was an option (when I tried out a GT50 for a brief period of time, I pretty much hated the dim, lackluster image and performance - even using any of its THX modes). Your recent post about the poor black levels on your earlier Magnolia visit really bummed me out. I was thinking I'd have to come up with an all new plan. Since I live more than two hours away form a Magnolia (or any other vendor that caries it) I have been relying on reviews in this thread to help me make a buying decision. I was planning on taking a trip to the closest Magnolia after the shootout to see an F8500 for myself, but like I say, after your earlier post, I had pretty much ruled it out. This is great news...thanks! I hope to check out some of the shoot out online and then get ready to make a final decision.

Pitchman, thanks, I'd still highly recommend you make the trip. Never base your buying decisions solely on what you read here. We all have our biases. When you're spending this kind of money, see these displays with your own eyes and either validate what the consensus is or refute it.

There are some great displays out there this year and it's not an easy choice. I can guarantee you that some would look at the VT60 and totally discount the ABL behavior in favor of a bit more darkness.

Choices. This year we have them! smile.gif
post #4832 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


I have some inside access to one aspect of OLED development. I wouldn't be making any cash deposits at this time. wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

To expensive in this economy. I do not see OLED coming out this year.......again frown.gif

My money's on LG and Samsung launching curved 55" OLED by July 2013. LG with white OLED and colored filters and Samsung with dedicated individual RGB OLED. Anyone want to give me odds?
post #4833 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Pitchman, thanks, I'd still highly recommend you make the trip. Never base your buying decisions solely on what you read here. We all have our biases. When you're spending this kind of money, see these displays with your own eyes and either validate what the consensus is or refute it.

There are some great displays out there this year and it's not an easy choice. I can guarantee you that some would look at the VT60 and totally discount the ABL behavior in favor of a bit more darkness.

Choices. This year we have them! smile.gif

thats for sure yes you have to see it for yourself
post #4834 of 11477
Guys I just finished calibrating my TV I have no clue what is the proper way to do it but I figured why not, I have included my report below hoping someone can tell me how off I am. Thanks.

post #4835 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffithstrife View Post

Guys I just finished calibrating my TV I have no clue what is the proper way to do it but I figured why not, I have included my report below hoping someone can tell me how off I am. Thanks.


Well, for someone who says s/he doesn't know how to calibrate, it looks pretty good.

The gamut is near perfect. Gamma is good and nearly flat at about 2.35. However, there is something screwy with the grayscale (color balance) and the associated deltaE. The grayscale curve errors don't seem to match up with the deltaE values at the low to mid range. Some numbers would help us understand why -- so post them please.

Larry
post #4836 of 11477
Forgive me because I know this will sound stupid but, what numbers do you want me to post thats all the report gave me? Thanks and sorry for the dumb question

Update I think you meant the setting I used, so I put them below.

White balance
R-Off 12
G-OFF 25
B-Off 23
R-GAIN 23
G-GAIN 27
B-Gain 10
Color space costom
RED: RED 60 GREEN 10 BLUE 4
GREEN: RED 30 GREEN 50 BLUE 5
BLUE: RED 0 GREEN 5 BLUE 63
YELLOW: RED 55 GREEN 50 BLUE 5
CYAN: RED 24 GREEN 50 BLUE 54
MAGENTA: RED 50 GREEN 12 BLUE 54
CONTRAST 98
SHARPNESS 25
BRIGHTNESS 48
COLOR 50
TINT 0
post #4837 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Well, for someone who says s/he doesn't know how to calibrate, it looks pretty good.

The gamut is near perfect. Gamma is good and nearly flat at about 2.35. However, there is something screwy with the grayscale (color balance) and the associated deltaE. The grayscale curve errors don't seem to match up with the deltaE values at the low to mid range. Some numbers would help us understand why -- so post them please.

Larry


I really appreciate the compliment thanks, oh and I am a he.
post #4838 of 11477
Got the update. Not too many changes but if you're watching videos on a DLNA server/Network, you will want this. Allows proper skipping forward and rewind.

i.e. if you were in the middle of a movie and want to jump forward, you can now.
post #4839 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffithstrife View Post

Forgive me because I know this will sound stupid but, what numbers do you want me to post thats all the report gave me? Thanks and sorry for the dumb question

Update I think you meant the setting I used, so I put them below.

White balance
R-Off 12
G-OFF 25
B-Off 23
R-GAIN 23
G-GAIN 27
B-Gain 10
Color space costom
RED: RED 60 GREEN 10 BLUE 4
GREEN: RED 30 GREEN 50 BLUE 5
BLUE: RED 0 GREEN 5 BLUE 63
YELLOW: RED 55 GREEN 50 BLUE 5
CYAN: RED 24 GREEN 50 BLUE 54
MAGENTA: RED 50 GREEN 12 BLUE 54
CONTRAST 98
SHARPNESS 25
BRIGHTNESS 48
COLOR 50
TINT 0

Griff (I assume),

It isn't a dumb question. The settings that you posted are not what I mean. I am talking about the xy coordinates and luminance values for the grayscale. But now I realize that you have the low end version of CalMan that doesn't give that data.

Just leave everything alone. The display should look great according to the calibration report.

BTW, what meter are you using? What size is your panel? Oh, yes -- what is the Cell setting?

Larry
post #4840 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffithstrife View Post

Forgive me because I know this will sound stupid but, what numbers do you want me to post thats all the report gave me? Thanks and sorry for the dumb question

Update I think you meant the setting I used, so I put them below.

White balance
R-Off 12
G-OFF 25
B-Off 23
R-GAIN 23
G-GAIN 27
B-Gain 10
Color space costom
RED: RED 60 GREEN 10 BLUE 4
GREEN: RED 30 GREEN 50 BLUE 5
BLUE: RED 0 GREEN 5 BLUE 63
YELLOW: RED 55 GREEN 50 BLUE 5
CYAN: RED 24 GREEN 50 BLUE 54
MAGENTA: RED 50 GREEN 12 BLUE 54
CONTRAST 98
SHARPNESS 25
BRIGHTNESS 48
COLOR 50
TINT 0

I believe Larry is talking about the numbers from the calibration report. There should be more information than what you posted wink.gif
post #4841 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Griff (I assume),

It isn't a dumb question. The settings that you posted are not what I mean. I am talking about the xy coordinates and luminance values for the grayscale. But now I realize that you have the low end version of CalMan that doesn't give that data.

Just leave everything alone. The display should look great according to the calibration report.

BTW, what meter are you using? What size is your panel? Oh, yes -- what is the Cell setting?

Larry

Would he be able to get those numbers from HCFR possibly?
post #4842 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Would he be able to get those numbers from HCFR possibly?

Absolutely but he will need more hands-on experience for to tackle HCFR.

Larry
post #4843 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Griff (I assume),

It isn't a dumb question. The settings that you posted are not what I mean. I am talking about the xy coordinates and luminance values for the grayscale. But now I realize that you have the low end version of CalMan that doesn't give that data.

Just leave everything alone. The display should look great according to the calibration report.

BTW, what meter are you using? What size is your panel? Oh, yes -- what is the Cell setting?

Larry

Thank you for the quick feed back I think the TV looks amazing but I thought it looked good before the calibration, I am using a C3 meter a 60 inch TV and the cell light is set to 20.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Absolutely but he will need more hands-on experience for to tackle HCFR.

Larry

What is HCFR, would using it help improve my calibration? Thanks
post #4844 of 11477
HCFR is a more difficult to use software program because it isn't as friendly, but it does give you lots of reading options. I would try it out, it's free and can't hurt.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/latest/download?source=files
post #4845 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by griffithstrife View Post

Thank you for the quick feed back I think the TV looks amazing but I thought it looked good before the calibration, I am using a C3 meter a 60 inch TV and the cell light is set to 20.
What is HCFR, would using it help improve my calibration? Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

HCFR is a more difficult to use software program because it isn't as friendly, but it does give you lots of reading options. I would try it out, it's free and can't hurt.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hcfr/files/latest/download?source=files

I would also check out the following thread in the calibration section of the forums:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed
post #4846 of 11477
ok, my turn to try and help. brought home a 64" F8500 this evening and have some first impressions to share.

i'll start off by giving a brief background:
-tv is replacing a Samsung PN50B540. I have not bought a 'high end' tv since CRT ruled the showrooms.
-located in a room dedicated to home theatre, and set up with projector and 100" electric screen(recently downsized from 120). so I've had the tv on in pitch black room
-TV is hooked up to AVR that controls all source content. hdmi out is split to another 1080p display, and a 720p projector. as such I am only running 720p signal.
-so far I've only watched content off the HTPC


ok, so, I didn't do anything major yet, hooked it up, did the updates, and very quickly adjusted the standard video modes. I started with 'movie' and quickly noticed the lag as I have it hooked up to a htpc and moving the cursor around had a noticeable delay. afterwards, I also adjusted the 'standard' setting with game mode turned on. aside from not being able to use movie mode, I have not found any other drawback for ME to use game mode, so i'm thinking I might leave it on. its not perfect, but I think it'll be close enough. i'll try gaming on it later and find out if I need to try the 'PC' input trick.

had both the F8500 and B540 hooked up the same source at the same time to compare. I'm already using a 4way hdmi splitter with one extra output so it was an easy thing to do. the f8500 is so much better than the b540, it's hardly even worth comparing. I wanted to see for myself, and basically the differences were all in the shadows. both TV's looked to be about the same brightness, but what looked like a dark grey mess on the b540 showed detail on the f8500. so I guess, what should be expected, a new $3000 plasma is a lot better than a 5yr old $1000 plasma.

general comments, as I don't really have any direct comparisons that are worth while.
-the 'blacks' aren't 'black' but they are as close as I've ever owned. it does remind me a lot of my CRT RPTV. i'm satisfied with that.
-I didn't notice a difference with black optimizer on or off. might mean I've got some more calibrating to do
-I haven't noticed any IR.
-i'm still not totally sure what brightness 'pops' are. it's perhaps something i'm so used to I don't notice anymore, but the only thing I could nit-pick on is that occasionally when the picture fades to black, it seems to do so in steps rather than a gradual fade. I have not played around enough to figure out what is causing it, or if it's something in the content.
-it buzzes, like my old plasma. which means it's essentially silent during normal use, and I only noticed it buzzing when I opened up the internet browser and a bright white screen with no audio to cover it up.
-the screen AR filter is what I expected from in store viewing. that is to say it doesn't really do anything special horizontally. all the lights behind me can be easily seen in reflections. but it does a very good job of keeping the black on screen black and not getting washed out from overhead lighting. the screen does dim significantly when viewed off axis vertically. I confirm this looking up at the screen as well, so if you intend to mount the tv high, you will have to angle it down.
-hdmi inputs are poorly located. none of my cables can be plugged in without the cable showing on the side of the tv. tiny complaint, but 2-3 inches would have made all the difference.
-as of this point, I fully intend to keep the TV. i'm debating just sticking my head in the sand and being happy with what I've got. it was by far the cheapest between f8500, vt, and zt and it seems to be as good as I need if not as good as it gets.

if anybody wants me to test things, or wants my impression on something I haven't commented on i'll do what I can to give an answer.

I did try to take some pics to show the difference between the two sammys, camera didn't handle it too well though, and I don't think too many ppl would really be comparing these two TV's anyway, but I did get one pic that kinda shows what I saw. look at the difference in detail in the top right corner. the f8500(which is just set to default movie mode in the pic) on top shows all the detail, the b540 on the bottom(which has actually been calibrated as best I can do) is completely unable to show anything in the shadows. despite the bottom tv looking 'darker' its actually way brighter in person. the bright areas of the picture suffer because the brightness needs to be low to make the blacks bearable I guess.


same screenshot but overexposed a bit. you can see how drastic the difference in blacks are. and why i've been so unsatisfied with the old TV.

Edited by fierce_gt - 5/7/13 at 7:13am
post #4847 of 11477
fierce-gt
Congratulations on your purchase.
Thank you for giving us your first impression.
post #4848 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFrancis View Post

I apologize in advance for asking what I know is a common question.

My multi-part question:

1. Do all plasmas buzz?
2. If so, does the F8500 buzz more, less, or about the same as an equivalent-size VT50 or VT60?

I've got a PN60F8500 and love it, but it does have some straight-on buzz that's noticeable on mute or low volume. It's not a deal-breaker for me unless it's abnormal. I'd like to exchange it if I've got a suboptimal unit.

I would really appreciate an answer from this thread's participants. I've Googled this a multitude of ways and have spoken with Robert Zohn and others. Robert's answers were the most helpful, but others have answered differently. Some say it's a luck-of-the-draw thing and a normal plasma should be completely silent.

I can't detect any buzz from the front on the F8500s or VT60s at Magnolia (though that may be due to all the other noise and electricity). The Magnolia employees at two different stores don't seem to know anything about buzzing.

Sorry again to clutter the forum with a question like this.

What I've found, and I'm not sure if its any worse than any other plasma, is that the panel of the f8500 emits some serious interference of some sort. I'm not savvy enough to speculate exactly what it is but I know that when I had my McIntosh tube preamp sitting in front of he tv about 3 or 4 ft on a short stand that there was serious interference in the form of a nasty 60hz type of sound. I've since moved the Mac away from the front and off to the side 5 ft or so and the issues is resolved. However I still have my proceed pre pro underneath i
The tv in a console and can very faintly hear the same sound thru it although not nearly to the same degree. Just some food for thought. So it might not be the panel buzzing but the interference it's causing with your sound system/ speakers. Try turning off the preamp or reciever, whatever the case may be for you, and see if you still hear the buzzing as bad. Might even go as far as unplugging every thing but the TV.
post #4849 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottFrancis View Post

I apologize in advance for asking what I know is a common question.

My multi-part question:

1. Do all plasmas buzz?
2. If so, does the F8500 buzz more, less, or about the same as an equivalent-size VT50 or VT60?

I've got a PN60F8500 and love it, but it does have some straight-on buzz that's noticeable on mute or low volume. It's not a deal-breaker for me unless it's abnormal. I'd like to exchange it if I've got a suboptimal unit.

I would really appreciate an answer from this thread's participants. I've Googled this a multitude of ways and have spoken with Robert Zohn and others. Robert's answers were the most helpful, but others have answered differently. Some say it's a luck-of-the-draw thing and a normal plasma should be completely silent.

I can't detect any buzz from the front on the F8500s or VT60s at Magnolia (though that may be due to all the other noise and electricity). The Magnolia employees at two different stores don't seem to know anything about buzzing.

Sorry again to clutter the forum with a question like this.

I just put a 64" f8500 in the spot where I used to have a 50" b540(older Samsung plasma) and it does seem to be a bit louder with the f8500. neither one was offensively loud to me, and only noticeable when i'm surfing the web.

I honestly would believe it more that they all buzz about the same (depends on how much power they use) and it's not luck of the draw, but how picky the owner is.

for me there has always been buzzing when I look for it. I can also hear the lights buzz, my LCD buzz, CRT's buzz, heck my watch buzzes when I turn the indiglo on. the important thing is that when watching video, I do not hear a buzz. the tv is essentially 'silent' when i'm not trying my hardest to hear it buzzing.
post #4850 of 11477
i think i found out what 'pops' are, haha.

scrolling through this page, when i get to my post with the pics, the screen brightness changes. i also notice that beside the dark picture, the lighter areas appear ever so slightly darker. i guess this is 'banding'?

either way, i think i'll be fine with these. it's a bit odd scrolling up and down, but i think with video content i won't be distracted by it. luckily for me i guess, i'm not too sensitive to it.
post #4851 of 11477
Has anyone tried the may 7th update off of the Samsung website??

Its version 1103.
post #4852 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Has anyone tried the may 7th update off of the Samsung website??

Its version 1103.

wow, dont tell me... could it be?? the ONE!!??? no, not avail ota yet.... thanks for heads up
Edited by ljmart - 5/7/13 at 5:57am
post #4853 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Has anyone tried the may 7th update off of the Samsung website??

Its version 1103.

Dang, Samsung is popping these out like the octomom. what, like three in a week's time.
post #4854 of 11477
Why those firmwares are only for NA? What about Europe?
post #4855 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiznant View Post

What I've found, and I'm not sure if its any worse than any other plasma, is that the panel of the f8500 emits some serious interference of some sort. I'm not savvy enough to speculate exactly what it is but I know that when I had my McIntosh tube preamp sitting in front of he tv about 3 or 4 ft on a short stand that there was serious interference in the form of a nasty 60hz type of sound. I've since moved the Mac away from the front and off to the side 5 ft or so and the issues is resolved. However I still have my proceed pre pro underneath i
The tv in a console and can very faintly hear the same sound thru it although not nearly to the same degree. Just some food for thought. So it might not be the panel buzzing but the interference it's causing with your sound system/ speakers. Try turning off the preamp or reciever, whatever the case may be for you, and see if you still hear the buzzing as bad. Might even go as far as unplugging every thing but the TV.

I can attest to AM radio interference from plasma. It's bad, really bad. In our old place, I had a 42" Kuro, wall-mounted and adjacent to our shower. When I'd shower in the morning, while my wife watched TV, the AM radio was simply horrible to listen to. The level of interference clearly varied by the brightness of the scene. It was easy to tell when a bright scene was on as the static increased exponentially.
post #4856 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Has anyone tried the may 7th update off of the Samsung website??

Its version 1103.

Won't be able to check until tomorrow (damn these 24 hour shifts) but will ASAP... But seeing this is the 3rd FW update in 2 weeks sure shows Samsung is listening to their customers... Very nice.. cool.gif
post #4857 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

Won't be able to check until tomorrow (damn these 24 hour shifts) but will ASAP... But seeing this is the 3rd FW update in 2 weeks sure shows Samsung is listening to their customers... Very nice.. cool.gif

The suspense is maddening!! Can someone try it?
post #4858 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Dang, Samsung is popping these out like the octomom. what, like three in a week's time.

post #4859 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Why those firmwares are only for NA? What about Europe?

Europe is handled differently, sometimes its the other way around where Eu gets updates NA will never see...
post #4860 of 11477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

The suspense is maddening!! Can someone try it?

i'll try it if i can find it, but i'm not seeing it anywhere... if it's not on the canadian website i'm not gonna risk it being a US only update though.
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