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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 195

post #5821 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

That's for sure! I was most astonished when they played the same blu-rays all over again the second night. It would of at least made it more interesting with more varied content and obviously would of given everyone a better idea how the pictures compared.

I think next year they should have someone from the entertainment industry involved with the production, the geeks sure could use some help in that regard. tongue.gif

all i can say is there will always be... an infiniti crowd, and a lexus crowd....... if we were all the same it would be a very boring world!!
post #5822 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknicolor View Post

Ken, did you get your F8500 yet? You mentioned you ordered one, but I wasn't sure when it was going to be delivered. Thank you for all the input you have given through out your buying process. It's been very helpful.

I have been so torn between the VT60 vs the F8500, but I think I am leaning toward F8500 for it's versatility. I have been to 6 or so Best Buys to compare the two, and depending on which day I lean one way or another. Each of the Best Buys have different setups, so one TV shines over the other depending on their configuration. My wife tells me to just buy one already. smile.gif

Thanks Teknicolor. No delivery yet. Coordinating with Robert. Should be soon.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #5823 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

all i can say is there will always be... an infiniti crowd, and a lexus crowd....... if we were all the same it would be a very boring world!!

...or a boring shootout wink.gif
post #5824 of 11481
By all means, volunteer your ideas and expertise to VE, rather than complain.
post #5825 of 11481
i dont think that was a complaint
post #5826 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

By all means, volunteer your ideas and expertise to VE, rather than complain.

I still enjoyed it. I was expecting it to be a little more variety. especially the second night...it was like watching a rerun. I wish VE the best though!
post #5827 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

Okay, the Shootout bummed me out so much I decided to go back to Magnolia and take another look at the VT60. This time they had the 65" right next to the 64" F8500, which I have at home. Considering the pro's preferred the VT60, I tried my best to determine if and why it would be the better choice. I actually wanted it to be better so I could justify making an exchange.

The salesman was very helpful and, right off the bat, told me it would not be a good idea. We compared the picture on a variety of content and one thing became perfectly clear. The weakness of the VT60 is it's level of detail. In every other respect it was excellent. The brightness was fine, colors, blacks, and even the whites looked great as well. I just could not get over the lack of detail in most of the content we viewed and in some content it appeared incredibly blurry.

I don't know exactly why, but the F8500 just looked better in virtually every scenario. Yes, I know Samsung uses different video processing, but no if's, and's, or but's...that screen technology makes a difference. Maybe it's not a measurable thing, but it sure is obvious from a visual standpoint. You can clearly see the difference.

I was disappointed that the shootout used such a limited array of content and was so heavily weighted toward the measurable instead of the visual. They were so engulfed in the technology they use determine what they think makes a picture look good, they actually spent very little time actually trying to see which picture actually does look better. They simply do not know how to measure screen clarity or detail level, so they simply did not take it into account. Maybe it does not show up in the resolution tests they use, but it obviously shows up on what we see.

If they simply did a comparison of faces from various distances using diverse content (instead of just blu-ray), it would be obvious to the pro's as well. They could then ask the audience which picture they preferred, but that would be a visual comparison, and possibly a contradiction to their measurable's...can't have that! Bottom line, they simply did not take take into account any factors they could not measure with their toys.

It's pretty obvious to me, and everyone I've been with who has viewed them together, that the F8500 provides a better picture. The potential for Samsung to make the picture even better with a future evolution kit convinced me I would be a nut to exchange it. I tried my best to convince myself I was wrong, but came away convinced the pro's are little to full of themselves and their own ability to determine picture quality...without really letting the audience to do that with diverse content from strictly a visual perspective. That's where I think they dropped the ball at the shootout...big time.

Jackobots, I obviously agree with your ultimate decision. I won't tell you I told you so. :-)

As I've said several times before, many are afraid to believe their own eyes when the calibrators say something contrary to what they've seen.

People, believe your own eyes!! Are you going to watch test patterns or actual content? Are you going to watch your display or will there be a calibrator sitting next to you watching?

I think the calibrators did a great job at the shootout, I really do. But I would have put on more real world content. Content that was full screen HD, content that challenged the ABL circuitry. They briefly switched to Directv to check a score and in that brief time I saw the biggest manifestation of ABL I had seen all night. Did anyone notice? Probably very few. I think that's a shame since it might have altered some opinions on the importance of it. But with the time allotted, they were already stressed to get everything in, so I can understand.

In the end, remember, your opinion is far more valuable than anyone else's. It's your display!!

I'm off my soapbox. :-)
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #5828 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Can anyone test for me that uses cable settop boxes when you go to smart hub on main TV screen at the bottom you will see "Guide" when you go into the guide you will see in upper right it will list your input and If if you try and go to a channel on the guide does it work correctly for you?

Update: If anyone is interested I fixed it by going to the Menu/Smart Features/OnTv settings and ran the setup there to get it on the correct Input but the Tv guide by Samsung for cable settop boxes is useless because everytime I use guide button on the samsung remote it starts at channel 1 instead of last channel so I have to scroll back to wherever I was to get to a new channel which isn't easy swiping. When I go to Menu/Broadcasting then channel edit and delete channels they still show up in the guide they just don't give the information for those channels. So, they still have some work to do on some of these features to get it right.
Mine is completely borked. I don't know if it's just my tv, or just a lack of support for my Dish VIP722DVR (note they support the non-dvr version apparently, and also support the vip922dvr version) but I cannot get my remote to work with my dish dvr (ie: channel up, down). Also, if using the guide, I select a channel, nothing happens... it just dismisses the guide and stays put on the current channel.

Then I have the sound issue, where switching an input, or pretty much doing anything will turn the tv sound off. Anyone else having this issue? It's maddening.

Also, last night during a bluray session with Hugo in 3d, the voice command just started going berserk! It was changing the channel and freaking out on voice commands it thought it was hearing.

At this point, I've called and ordered a replacement tv (due to arrive on Friday) as I think either my firmware update got botched or just got a bad tv altogether. This tv is quirky though, which worries me. Hopefully it's just my tv and the new one will correct all the issues and bugs (I could list a few more).

I know one thing, I'm not updating my firmware. I want my brightness back!
post #5829 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddler11 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

!:The answer is no youll have to attach it
2) Break in does not avoid or help avoid IR. The Break in is to age phosphers evenly to prepare for calibration. YOu can watch a mix of content for teh 1st few hundred hours and youll be set to go smile.gif

Thanks for the reply.
... and as long as you continue to watch a mix of content, you shouldn't have IR problems in the future. smile.gif

You may get a occasionally get a glimpse of Residual Charge IR, but it dissipates almost as soon as you see it.
post #5830 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Jackobots, I obviously agree with your ultimate decision. I won't tell you I told you so. :-)

In the end, remember, your opinion is far more valuable than anyone else's. It's your display!!

I'm off my soapbox. :-)
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

+1
I couldn't agree more..
Its your eyes and your $$ so buying one over the other because of what someone else thinks is flat out crazy..
post #5831 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooknl View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

Okay, the Shootout bummed me out so much I decided to go back to Magnolia and take another look at the VT60. This time they had the 65" right next to the 64" F8500, which I have at home. Considering the pro's preferred the VT60, I tried my best to determine if and why it would be the better choice. I actually wanted it to be better so I could justify making an exchange.

snip

snip

That's where I think they dropped the ball at the shootout...big time.

Wow did you hit the nail right on the head jackobots, I agree whole heartedly with your consensus
of the shootout.
Sure technically it was very interesting, but there was NO depth to the visual of the screens.

Seems to me like the calibrators missed the whole VISUAL of how does it look to you, what do you see, how do you interpret this picture on display a b and c.

People should still buy what they like visually not what might come when u calibrate.

Anyway its to bad the whole thing was about the technical not the visual.

Rob

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #5832 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddler11 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Get an LCD. How many dedicated monitors sold are plasma? Theres a reason for that.

Problem is that every lcd I have seen has some catastrophic deal breaker. 65es8000 horrible vertical banding. 70le857 crazy flashlighting. 65xbr950 same banding as the 65es8000 just harder to see cause of backlighting (and its still $5000 here). But I have read the cnet accidental burn in test and everyone else seams to say that I shoukdnt have any problems with the samsung so im going to try it out. I have 30 days to evaluate it and if I do have any problems I will return it and they can put it in the open box pile beside the other crazy expensive p.o.s. tvs that I have returned.
OK. I think I'll have to change my mind. I based my comments on using a TV as a TV. You can use a plasma TV with a HTPC, if you are careful about how often you use the HTPC as a computer. If it's basically a work station monitor, you are going to have IR problems. If you use the computer as an input device for video material, and you mix that material, then you shouldn't have problems.

You, as the user, will be the determining factor with a plasma display.
Edited by htwaits - 5/13/13 at 2:45pm
post #5833 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddler11 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

If you use XBMC, download D-Nice slides and put them as the default pictures in the screensaver. So when the system is idle for 1 minute the screensaver starts and that way you would even benefit from the time your system is idle in breaking in the TV

Yup good tip any others?
Yes, but that will not protect you from long extended sessions with the same fixed image on the screen. Do you play the same game for a couple of hours, a couple of days, or a couple of weeks. Mixing is the only protections that you can count on. smile.gif
post #5834 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiddler11 View Post


Lol "samey things" good tip though. Is a solid black or white screen considered to be a static image?
No because all the pixels are doing the same thing. That's true of the colored slides too.
post #5835 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

OK. I think I'll have to change my mind. I based my comments on using a TV as a TV. You can use a plasma TV with a HTPC, if you are careful about how offten you use the HTPC as a computer. If it's basically a work station monitor, you are going to have IR problems. If you use the computer as an input device for video material, and you mix that material, then you shouldn't have problems.

You, as the user, will be the determining factor with a plasma display.

A user? here? hmmmm I thought we had a program to detect when they entered the grid....biggrin.gif
post #5836 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

OK. I think I'll have to change my mind. I based my comments on using a TV as a TV. You can use a plasma TV with a HTPC, if you are careful about how offten you use the HTPC as a computer. If it's basically a work station monitor, you are going to have IR problems. If you use the computer as an input device for video material, and you mix that material, then you shouldn't have problems.

You, as the user, will be the determining factor with a plasma display.

agree, I've got a HTPC hooked up, and was using a b530 Samsung plasma before this. It's the only monitor I have hooked up to the pc(well it's split between my f8500, a projector, and a small LED in the bathroom) so I use it for pc duties as needed. it's probably in the range of 70% video, 30% PC, perhaps less at times. I've definitely had IR issues with the previous plasma, never any burn-in. the f8500 seems worlds better for IR so far. it really does seem like a non-issue for video use. i'm not even really worried about leaving letterbox bars up for hours on end anymore. but a computer monitor just doesn't need the abilities of a plasma. it needs to be able to display static images for hours on end, all the time. if I had no intentions of watching video at least 50% of the time, I wouldn't even consider a plasma. I absolutely hate trucks, think they are a waste, and annoying to drive or drive around. but I need something to haul my boat to the cottage i'm not going to figure out a way to barely tow it with an economy car that won't even get good mileage while towing it anyway. bite the PQ bullet and get an LCD. if you really want to play videos off the PC and have them look good OCCASIONALLY, then use an extended desktop or dual monitor setup with one being your TV and the other being a real computer monitor that can handle the abuse.
post #5837 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

OK. I think I'll have to change my mind. I based my comments on using a TV as a TV. You can use a plasma TV with a HTPC, if you are careful about how offten you use the HTPC as a computer. If it's basically a work station monitor, you are going to have IR problems. If you use the computer as an input device for video material, and you mix that material, then you shouldn't have problems.

You, as the user, will be the determining factor with a plasma display.

A user? here? hmmmm I thought we had a program to detect when they entered the grid....biggrin.gif
Shhh. No one suspects me.
post #5838 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Yes, but that will not protect you from long extended sessions with the same fixed image on the screen. Do you play the same game for a couple of hours, a couple of days, or a couple of weeks. Mixing is the only protections that you can count on. smile.gif

when rock band or guitar hero came out I played that for like two weeks straight almost. burn in is really blown out of proportions. you need to abuse the tv for it to happen. you don't 'accidentally' get burn in from normal use.

yes it's good to mix, but it's necessary to be paranoid about it. like if you're watching a 3hr football game with a static score, it doesn't matter because the commercials coming on, or you flipping channels out of boredom is more than enough variety to prevent burn in. even with video games, there's very few that allow you to jump straight into the game play with some static display and stay there for hours on end. going back into the menus, pausing to take a leak, start up screens, save screens, etc all count as 'variety'.

I truly believe that ANY extra effort you make is good enough, and often overkill. it's not a bad thing to protect your investment, just don't let it get in the way of USING the TV. run the slides or whatever to break in the tv, then just use it with a teeny bit of common sense. turn it off when you leave the room for several minutes, don't leave it paused overnight, and you should be just fine.
post #5839 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


You, as the user, will be the determining factor with a plasma display.

A user? here? hmmmm I thought we had a program to detect when they entered the grid....biggrin.gif

oh well done!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #5840 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

if you really want to play videos off the PC and have them look good OCCASIONALLY, then use an extended desktop or dual monitor setup with one being your TV and the other being a real computer monitor that can handle the abuse.
That's the setup I used for quite a while a few years ago. At the time we had a DLP HDTV and it was the dual monitor. With DLP there was zero threat of IR. When the plasma came along, I just got tired of the computer related problems and divorced the HT from the computer. wink.gif

I'm not much for couching with a key board, using a track ball, or waving a mouse in the air. Maybe there are better methods for control and data entry now. smile.gif
post #5841 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Yes, but that will not protect you from long extended sessions with the same fixed image on the screen. Do you play the same game for a couple of hours, a couple of days, or a couple of weeks. Mixing is the only protections that you can count on. smile.gif

when rock band or guitar hero came out I played that for like two weeks straight almost. burn in is really blown out of proportions. you need to abuse the tv for it to happen. you don't 'accidentally' get burn in from normal use.

yes it's good to mix, but it's necessary to be paranoid about it. like if you're watching a 3hr football game with a static score, it doesn't matter because the commercials coming on, or you flipping channels out of boredom is more than enough variety to prevent burn in. even with video games, there's very few that allow you to jump straight into the game play with some static display and stay there for hours on end. going back into the menus, pausing to take a leak, start up screens, save screens, etc all count as 'variety'.

I truly believe that ANY extra effort you make is good enough, and often overkill. it's not a bad thing to protect your investment, just don't let it get in the way of USING the TV. run the slides or whatever to break in the tv, then just use it with a teeny bit of common sense. turn it off when you leave the room for several minutes, don't leave it paused overnight, and you should be just fine.
You seem to be advising me, but I was advising fiddler11 but he got left out when a joke took place, and changed the context a bit. wink.gif

What I advise others is close to what you're advising with a few differences in emphasis. If you're interested click here.
Edited by htwaits - 5/13/13 at 3:10pm
post #5842 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks Teknicolor. No delivery yet. Coordinating with Robert. Should be soon.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

assuming you chose a 64" since you would of went w/ the 70" elite if it would of panned out.
post #5843 of 11481
I do have one technical question. When I turn on the set I get a message saying the motion control is unavailable because the is camera deactivated. Then, when I turn it off, I briefly see a message saying the camera firmware is being updated. It's been doing that for quite a while now.

Anyway have that happen? Can it be stopped?

Thanks
post #5844 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

I do have one technical question. When I turn on the set I get a message saying the motion control is unavailable because the is camera deactivated. Then, when I turn it off, I briefly see a message saying the camera firmware is being updated. It's been doing that for quite a while now.

Anyway have that happen? Can it be stopped?

Thanks

u be happy to know...... f8500 rules!
post #5845 of 11481
so we have winner in the shootout????
post #5846 of 11481
on the shootout thread, yes!!
post #5847 of 11481
Indeed but by a nose on both sets of scorecards. Must be the closest shootout yet. While my scores were in line with those of the calibrators, I am not surprised with the results as the panels were that close. Hopefully there will be another shootout in the fall, if the OLEDs ever come out.
post #5848 of 11481
my 8500 comes on Saturday I cant wait!!!!
post #5849 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

my 8500 comes on Saturday I cant wait!!!!

gotta love it smile.gif
post #5850 of 11481
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

so we have winner in the shootout????

The F8500 is the overall winner.
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