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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 199

post #5941 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Can motion control be turned off? If so, why would there be a motion control message if the camera was tucked away?

Having the camera out looks yuck. This message has been doing my head in also.
I KNOW the camera is not available, it's IN IT"S HOUSING BECAUSE I PUT IT THERE!! rolleyes.gif
post #5942 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by icelt View Post

Even though I was biased towards rooting for the F8500 in the shootout, especially as a current E8000 owner, personally I find the VE Shootout results effectively a tie IMHO. I see clear varibles where the VT/ZT scored legitimately better and also others where the 8500 was measurably preferable.

Now as for the "eye of the beholder test" I trust all the intelligent and well spoken commentators on the forum, regardless of their choice, that whichever one they perceived to be best as subjectively equally valid.

For my take... the display lag of the 8500 is a significant hurdle. For those other gamers like myself, I inadvertently played about 8 games of Domination on CoD Blops2 the other day in regular mode, meaning not in Gaming or PC modes. Since I completely forgot to set the TV to HDMI1 I thought I was playing normally. And the results were bad. Very badddd. Checking displaylag.com the Gaming mode rating is 39-56ms. Assuming the "normal" modes is at least 20 to 30 ms slower, that would put my experience at around 60 - 80 ms which is in the vicinity of the best results measured for the F8500 at 56-67ms (PC).

I realize statistically us performance demanding gamers are relatively rare, but I can also tell you that we are amongst the most willing to drop serious coin on products that meet our fairly stringent requirements. Unless Samsung is willing and able to address this DL issue via a firmware update, even granted is very impressive performance at the ShootOut, I personally am hard pressed to consider it as a worthwhile upgrade over my E8000. Right now I am more tempted by the VT60 and its comparatively silky smooth DL performance.

Either way, I am with you all in congratulating both major PDP manufacturers in bringing amongst the best panel's ever produced to the masses and all things considered at a very reasonable price. This quality and versatility of image handling/processing, across all source types, was simply NOT available at just any price point 10+ years ago. So "here-here" to the hard working engineers at both Panasonic and Samsung! Through your concerted efforts we all gain biggrin.gif

I would not judge at all based on playing in regular mode. Your experience was more like 100ms probably. Moving to game mode lowers it by a factor and renaming to PC lowers it by yet another factor. I'm not saying it will be acceptable to you, but it will be nothing even remotely like playing in regular mode.
post #5943 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picasso Moon View Post


On the other hand, they told me Sammy's were strictly price controlled and there was nothing they could do beyond the marked prices.

It's not true. I'll just say that.
post #5944 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Having the camera out looks yuck. This message has been doing my head in also.
I KNOW the camera is not available, it's IN IT"S HOUSING BECAUSE I PUT IT THERE!! rolleyes.gif

Next, my laptop will tell me the screen IS AVAILABLE BECAUSE I OPENED THE LID! cool.gif

Of all the senseless messages. I do hope Samsung suppresses it at some point.
post #5945 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

Just wanted to mention a conversion I had with the Magnolia guy I've been dealing with. He is the best BB salesman I have ever encountered and has been very frank and extremely helpful. He spends all day every day displaying and comparing tv's. He tells you in detail what he likes or dislikes about the sets without any indication of bias. He uses a variety of source material, over and over again, that he feels show the strengths, as well the weaknesses of the panels.

Our discussion was specifically about how the firmware update effected the picture on the F8500 and he showed examples of what he felt had changed. Most on here know that it seems to have eliminated pops and reduced the effects of ABL and he agreed with that 100%. Another benefit he noticed was a reduction of glare off objects within the picture. He showed me an example of a scene which he felt had too much reflection off a man's head, it appeared too shiny before the update, but much less so after.

On the flip side, he felt there was a slight reduction in sharpness. He showed me an example of peach fuzz on a boys face that he used to show the amazing detail the set provides. He said although you can still see it, it is not as pronounced as it was before the update. He showed me another example of the guy from the movie Machete, who let;s just say has extremely rough face. He said before the update you could make out every horrible detail, but again, not quite as much after. Still great detail, but not quite as much as before the update.

I certainly don't want to open a can of worms, but I have also noticed a subtle change in regards to sharpness. Is it the reason it didn't measure so high at the shootout, I don't know, but it may of had something to do with it. I knew there was something different about picture after the update and wasn't sure what changed initially, but I think I have a better idea now after talking to him. He made a pretty compelling case.

That's pretty interesting. Did he re-calibrate after the update?
post #5946 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyStillRemains View Post

Looks the demographic of gamers that are interested in this TV is growing...I am still maintaining hope that Samsung will do something to fix the input lag, as they have delivered rapidly and effectively to our previous requests. Power in numbers... biggrin.gif

If we all call Samsung and report that gaming is laggy and the TV is not performing as we expect then they might do something. I've reported it. I recommend others do as well. Playing games on the living room TV is not all that odd. It's common.

If Samsung feels like it's a widespread problem they'll look into it.
post #5947 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

Question is, is the 8500 worth paying $500 more then the VT60 65"?

You shouldn't have to pay 500 more.
post #5948 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Guys who own the 64F8500, can you please comment how many of you have the faint horizontal band? I want to check if its a common issue or not. Thanks

I have it. Very faint and white. I'l be swapping my TV shortly.
post #5949 of 11459
I just wanted take a moment to bring up "Digital Clean View".

I know most just turns this off as the prevailing conventional wisdom says turn off all processing. By doing so, I'd suggest you may not be getting as good of a picture as you could be, especially when watching Cable or Satellite content. But even with some film content...

...depending on how much you like the "ant crawl" or dancing dots" of film grain/noise.

I've watched an F8500 through an HDMI splitter next to a Kuro 9G and "Digital Clean View, to my eyes, provides a fairly massive, yet innocuous, improvement to picture quality. I think we sometimes forget that video processing gets better and better with better techniques and faster processing. Conventional wisdom says "turn it off" but is that "wisdom" still 100% valid? Is it based on the algorithms and processing muscle (or lack therefor) of yore? How would we know if we just turn it off without truly evaluating its effects?

Watch Empire Strikes Back for example with it off and then with it on. It's pretty staggering IMO. I've watched a number of BD titles where the ant crawl, especially on a large screen, is a distraction...even on newer movies. There is a scene in Wrath of the Titans where the the walls are crawling with noise. You'll seen this often on walls in lower light scenes where film was digitized or shot with lower quality digital cameras (or the film was not de-noised). Turn on Digital Clean View, even on Low, and it cleans it up perfectly. The wall or background stops dancing and the rest of the image stays exactly the same to my eyes. Next to the Kuro, I noticed no ill effects of this processing other than making the picture stable and cleaner. Color and contrast looked the same, etc.

This is basically a kind of temporal denoising and it works very very well IMO.

I think we forget that audio and video are restored and cleaned up in mastering labs with this kind of processing all the time. Samsung has offered us, IMO some excellent processing that perhaps should be considered and not just turned off without further thought or evaluation. Seeing the effects, side by side, I find it hard to watch the picture and not be distracted by dancing dots in walls and backgrounds that become completely stable and far less distracting with a little help from the F8500's excellent and modern video processing.

Anyway...try it. You might like it. The next time you see a wall crawling with digital ants...turn it on and see if you like what it does. YMMV of course. Luckily it's easy to toggle.
post #5950 of 11459
[quote name="endlessender" url="/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/5940#post_23314606"

...depending on how much you like the "ant crawl" or dancing dots" of film grain/noise.
[/quote]

Are you referring to distracting images like the movement you see in a striped shirt?
post #5951 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackobots View Post

[quote name="endlessender" url="/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/5940#post_23314606"

Are you referring to distracting images like the movement you see in a striped shirt?

No not really. I'm talking about what you seen on, for example, walls in darker environments.
post #5952 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Guys who own the 64F8500, can you please comment how many of you have the faint horizontal band? I want to check if its a common issue or not. Thanks

have not seen anything like this, and no, i'm not going to go looking for it either, haha.
post #5953 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

Question is, is the 8500 worth paying $500 more then the VT60 65"?

the pricing i was given was reversed. the 65" vt60 was 500 more than the 64" f8500

looks like the vt60's have already dropped pretty significantly. not so much here in canada though, i think they just came in stock a week ago...
post #5954 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

I have it. Very faint and white. I'l be swapping my TV shortly.

Thanks man. Please report when you get your new set...
post #5955 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Guys who own the 64F8500, can you please comment how many of you have the faint horizontal band? I want to check if its a common issue or not. Thanks

Polakis, we keep running around in circles with this issue wink.gif those that ahve had the band exchanged thier sets (floridaman and arenaman to name 2) and received sets without the band....I know you are in Greece and they do things differently, but the advice given to you before will not change.....
post #5956 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Guys who own the 64F8500, can you please comment how many of you have the faint horizontal band? I want to check if its a common issue or not. Thanks
Have it... but I'm getting my replacement this Friday (for other issues, not that).
post #5957 of 11459
Can u guys describe this horizontal band?
post #5958 of 11459
On certain scenes (like an all grey scene/test pattern) my h-banding wasn't "faint" at all, but was striking. It was very easy to see it.

I do know one thing, when my new tv gets here Friday, I will NOT being updating the Firmware. I so much prefer the picture before the latest update. Mine went down quite noticeably in overall brightness and lost some clarity/detail (sharpness). I did not like how it looked after by comparison. To me, this extreme detail and brightness is the panels best features and exactly why I chose it over the Panny's.
post #5959 of 11459
I have updated my post http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/2600_100#post_23205805 with the following:

Update 5/14/2012: Purchased Antec Bias Lighting for HDTV with 51.1-Inch Cable (HDTV BIAS LIGHTING) which uses USB port for power.

Update 5/14/2012: Discovered that my DVR's switched outlet is turned off if its HDMI output is not received for an interval. Purchased from Amazon a ZuniDigital ZG7000B-15 7 Outlet Digital Smart Green Surge Protector with 1 Master, 4 Controlled, and 2 Constant outlets. Plugged the TV into the Master outlet and USB Hub into a Controlled outlet which is only on when TV is on. My controlled devices are:
Powered USB Hub
MoCA Router (Provides wired Internet connection for TV, Blu-ray player ,Video Game, and Receiver)
Video Game

The last two had been 24/7 power vampires.

Edited by JRWalker - 5/15/13 at 11:38am
post #5960 of 11459
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

You shouldn't have to pay 500 more.
Nope they are closer to the $3K range and the same price.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the pricing i was given was reversed. the 65" vt60 was 500 more than the 64" f8500
..
Shop somewhere else if you can.........
post #5961 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Can motion control be turned off? If so, why would there be a motion control message if the camera was tucked away?

Having the camera out looks yuck. This message has been doing my head in also.
I KNOW the camera is not available, it's IN IT"S HOUSING BECAUSE I PUT IT THERE!! rolleyes.gif
This must be a candidate for an easy firmware fix. biggrin.gif

I think it's probably too early to ask, but is there anyone using the F8500 as a dumb display monitor? What I mean is display only. No tuner, no smart features, no TV speakers/audio, no Internet connection, and the camera put away for good. wink.gif

If so, can you turn off the speakers, and all smart features in the setup menus. and make it what I have now -- a dumb display screen with one or possibly more HDMI connections to source material. smile.gif
Edited by htwaits - 5/14/13 at 12:03pm
post #5962 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Can motion control be turned off? If so, why would there be a motion control message if the camera was tucked away?

I've left my camera out of its hidden position since I unboxed my F8500 with motion control off and never seen the messages Jacko has been plagued with.. When I get home tomorrow I will put the camera in the hidden position and see if I start to get the messages...
But I agree hywaits it makes no that sense, once the camera is stored away there shouldn't be any messages concerning the motion control..
I'm looking forward to what you find.

Thanks.
Edited by htwaits - 5/14/13 at 12:31pm
post #5963 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

Thanks man. Please report when you get your new set...

here's my situation(sounds like them joysey boyz) anyway my display is wall mounted, if i'm on the couch viewing it in a sitting position i see nothing at all. if i lie on the floor, and i'm looking up at the display i see it. it's exactly as described. i have no doubt it is related to the filter.

on an unrelated note my set has developed the faint vertical pink band again. my 1st set had it right away, and this set it took two weeks before it reared it's head. this time rather than in the middle it's about 2/3rds to the right. it sounds like damien and i are the only one's with this problem. it's puzzling to me as i thought bands would be pronounced from day one. never had a display not have it, and then develop it over time. it was like one day not there, and then the next day there.
post #5964 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

. . .
-hdmi inputs are poorly located. none of my cables can be plugged in without the cable showing on the side of the tv. tiny complaint, but 2-3 inches would have made all the difference.
. . .

I have found four solutions for this problem at Monoprice.com. All four keep HDMI cables invisible from the front and work with 3D.

First two Port Savers are a little too thick and put more stress on the TV port than I feel comfortable with. If about 1/8" of Port Saver's case sanded off would be ok. Still could not use more than one of each of the first two types in multi HDMI cable configuration.

Cable from below:
PID 4859 - HDMI® Right Angle Port Saver Adapter (Male to Female) - 90 Degree - Vertical Flat Left
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041913&p_id=4859&seq=1&format=2

Cable from above:
PID 4860 - HDMI® Right Angle Port Saver Adapter (Male to Female) - 270 Degree - Vertical Flat Right
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041913&p_id=4860&seq=1&format=2

No modification required but not best solution:
PID 5133 - HDMI® Port Saver Adapter (Male to Female) - Swiveling Type
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041913&p_id=5133&seq=1&format=2

I recommend and use:
PID 7702 - HDMI® Port Saver Adapter (Male to Female) - 360 Degree Swiveling Type
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041913&p_id=7702&seq=1&format=2

I use thick HDMI cables, so I also use 7702s on the back of my A/V Receiver to take stress off its ports.
Edited by JRWalker - 5/14/13 at 1:01pm
post #5965 of 11459
Earlier I complained about some red and green snow showing in the black letter box borders.

When I drop contrast below 60 the red and green snow disappears from the letter box. It depends on brightness level also though.

A similar snow is present in the actual movie, though less noticeable .
post #5966 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

. . .
-hdmi inputs are poorly located. none of my cables can be plugged in without the cable showing on the side of the tv. tiny complaint, but 2-3 inches would have made all the difference.
. . .

I have found four solutions for this problem at Monoprice.com. All four keep HDMI cables invisible from the front and work with 3D.

First two Port Savers are a little too thick and put more stress on the TV port than I feel comfortable with. If about 1/8" of Port Saver's case sanded off would be ok. Still could not use more than one of each of the first two types in multi HDMI cable configuration.

The AmazonBasics cables are nice, thin, light, and bendy and have no ferrite cores to get in the way. I used HDMI couplers to join them to my thicker, heavier, ferritey Monoprice cables. This works even better than the port savers and 90 degree adapters I also bought. My Panasonic ST60 has the ports about 3.5 inches from the side, and I've got three of the AmazonBasics plugged in like this. The set came with a reusable cable tie that snaps into the back, and with these three cables and an optical cable plugged into the side and a coax antenna and network cables plugged into the bottom, to my amazement, it's staying in and providing strain relief as I slide my TV several times a day around my Anthrocart desk. The cables are all totally invisible from the front and very neatly organized when viewed from the back. I didn't even need to stick any clips to the back of the TV to help with the cable management.

Concerning length, I got the 6' Amazon cables, and the Monoprice cables they are joined to range from 6-10'. No issues whatsoever due to this.
post #5967 of 11459
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57584396-221/samsung-f8500-plasma-wins-value-electronics-shootout/

Here's the rusults of the value electronics 2013 shootout... Thanks, CNET

Samsung won the popular vote; Panasonic won the calibrators' vote - both by very minimal margins.
post #5968 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

here's my situation(sounds like them joysey boyz) anyway my display is wall mounted, if i'm on the couch viewing it in a sitting position i see nothing at all. if i lie on the floor, and i'm looking up at the display i see it. it's exactly as described. i have no doubt it is related to the filter.

on an unrelated note my set has developed the faint vertical pink band again. my 1st set had it right away, and this set it took two weeks before it reared it's head. this time rather than in the middle it's about 2/3rds to the right. it sounds like damien and i are the only one's with this problem. it's puzzling to me as i thought bands would be pronounced from day one. never had a display not have it, and then develop it over time. it was like one day not there, and then the next day there.

Try having it serviced maybe you will have better luck than I did.
post #5969 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronman79 View Post

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57584396-221/samsung-f8500-plasma-wins-value-electronics-shootout/

Here's the rusults of the value electronics 2013 shootout... Thanks, CNET

Samsung won the popular vote; Panasonic won the calibrators' vote - both by very minimal margins.

Juuuusssstttttt a little bit late wink.gif

Was posted a page or few back been a lot of activity since the results where released yesterday.
post #5970 of 11459
With seven HDMI cables running to my pre/pro things were getting so tight it was becoming impossible to access anything back there with the thick cables and ferrite cores. When one of the cable ends started coming loose because of being squashed by tight surroundings I replaced it with one of these RedMere cables from Monoprice.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255

After installing it I was so impressed I replaced all of the HDMI cables in my system with RedMere cables. Huge improvement. What was a cluttered mess is now neat with plenty of space. They are a little more expensive than a std. cable and they are directional so you have to pay attention when installing them but they are well worth the price in my book.
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