or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 209

post #6241 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post

Hey.its already there, if you think about it... My old HTC evo 3d phone had it wink.gif

I think Toshiba has a panel capable of 3D without glasses

My understanding though is that you have to be almost directly in front of the Tv to see it...and then the price was like $10K for a 55 inch





Warren
post #6242 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by nssimpson View Post

Hi Everyone, I am the proud owner of the amazing 64" F8500. I've installed the latest firmware available on the UK website - 1004.7 (released 11th April 2013) but in the US they have a firmware update - 1103.1 (released 10th May 2013).

Can you tell me whether the firmware numbers are the same for the UK and US? Should I be chasing Samsung to release a UK version of the 1103.1 firmware?

(P.S. I have seen input lag, which I'm hoping Samsung will fix with a future firmware release.)

Cheers everyone

Nick

The firmware is different between the NA and EU, so when they release thier version ov 1103.1 it will be under a different number. When you call them you can refer to the NA 1103.1 as this will point them in the right direction.....

hopefully you've checked out the UK\EU sister site avforums as well smile.gif
Edited by Ph8te - 5/17/13 at 7:03am
post #6243 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmmoore View Post

I just wanted to add my $0.02. I know people are saying that compared to other TVs this one has more input lag which will "ruin the gaming experience", or it's at an "unacceptable level". Here is the reality. I play FPS on it (Mw3, BO2, etc)....and I crush kids (if you don't believe me, check out Spiral Dissent on XBL). Unless you are competing in the top 5% of the world, it will NOT make a difference or be noticeable. I can may attribute 5 out of 500 deaths to "hmm, it seemed like I saw him late"...but lets be honest...it was probably real lag (not input).

Don't let the fact that you are a gamer prevent you from getting this tv. I game a lot, and it's fine. If you are in the top 5% of a gaming league or something, then odds are you have a true "made for gaming" TV.

crmmoore

I found my ST60 to be the same way...not a huge lag issue when playing CoD. I returned it for IR however.

I just ordered an F8000 but still would prefer the F8500. IR is the thing here...how have you found your F8500 handles IR so far? I could always see the HUD for 2 days after an hour of CoD..

Thanks!
post #6244 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

I mean what information is going to your on screen guide. Is it through cable box or directtv etc..connected to hdmi 1?

Surf this is what "Guide" brings up for me.... sorry thought it brought up 10 channels but actually 7 but you get the idea.. if I hit channel up or down it will show the next 7 channels.
post #6245 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post

Surf this is what "Guide" brings up for me.... sorry thought it brought up 10 channels but actually 7 but you get the idea.. if I hit channel up or down it will show the next 7 channels.

Thanks! So It pages up and down using the touchpad remote? When I hit my channel up or down when guide is up on my touchpad remote it just changes the channel and I have to start over again.
post #6246 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Just got done testing some true 3D content. Man this thing is a beast. I love it. Beautiful picture. Much clearer and crisper than the ST60. I know the ST60 didn't get a lot of points for 3D but it was a pretty decent indication on how Panny's half resolution / full res 3D interpolation deal compares to Sammy's simple full res 3D. In this regards, the Sammy is much better. Thin objects I noticed would flicker and shimmer in the 3D on the ST60, on the Sammy, they don't. Plus, on the Sammy, the original 24p content in 3D is perfectly watchable, where as the ST60 it was impossible to watch. However, from what I've read, the VT60 does a bit of a better job at it than the ST60 in that regard when it comes to motion. But I have a feeling the static image quality will mostly be the same on scenes with little cross talk. Gaming in 3D: The Sammy has less jaggies than the ST60, and a smoother overall picture even in 720p. I chalk that up to Sammy using full resolution and Panny using their odd blend of 1080/540 whatever they call it.

I keep using 2D to 3D and I'm consistently surprised just how good it is for what it is. It's a far better implementation of conversion than on the ST60 and UT50, and I doubt the VT/ZT would have a different implementation of the algorithm used in the ST60. The F8500 has much less 2D to 3D flicker than the ST60 did and does a better job at creating simulated real depth. Both the ST60 and F8500 blow the UT50 out of the water in regards of 2D to 3D conversion.

Motion Smoothing works extremely well even though the F8500 doesn't need it for 3D. One thing I noticed, is that motion smoothing works for games that run at 30 fps, too. I tested it on Shadow of the Colossus (HD) on PS3 and it was the first time I've ever seen the game look like it had a frame rate of 60 fps. Neither the UT50 or ST60 did. I really liked it on. I wouldn't recommend it for games that require good timing (usually they run 60 fps) or games that natively run 60 fps. If the input lag could be cut down on normal mode using motion smoothing, I would heartily recommend it for 30 fps games. Anything that's RPG or slow paced though, definitely turn it on, it's worth it for the increase in frame rate.

I also really like it on for 3D film content. Yeah don't like that? I don't care. It's the closest thing I have to HFR in the living room.

So what else? Was the TV worth $1000 over the ST60 from a PQ standpoint? From everything I've posted, yes. The F8500 is what I've been waiting for in a flat panel for half a decade from a PQ standpoint. I can now happily retire my XBR910 to the bedroom. It's also an improvement in many other aspects and doesn't have a bunch of bugs like the Panasonics do, for example PC resolution scaling modes having a sharpening bug unless Photo content is enabled, and weird chroma edging.

Quick note about my observations on the ST60 vs the F8500. Both panels are plenty bright, but the F8500 much less reflective. If people are looking for a bright TV, then I feel both sets are good at that.

Ok, so what Panny does do better, however, is the labeling of their menu options. For example, overscan, HDMI Color range, and so on.

IR is pretty much the same at the moment.

I hope that covers most of everything. Anyone have any questions, I'll try to answer if there is something that wasn't answered before by someone else.

Excellent points and it wont' surprise anyone that I agree very much. I've seen the flickering in the half resolution, single line scan implementation on the Pannys and once you notice it, you'd be hard pressed to unnotice it. Also true about the smoothing, especially in 3D watching.The Hobbit in 3D with motion smoothing on Standard is very very similar IMO to my experiences in the theater watching The Hobbit in 48FPS 3D. It's really pretty incredible and indeed rather close to HFR. In fact, I pretty much watch all 3D content with smoothing, as it creates a more fluid and lifelike experience and is not jarring in any way. Peter Jackson goes into great detail about how high frame rates contribute to comfortable 3D viewing. You dont' sense SOE - it just seems natural. Watching full res 3D with smoothing on the F8500 really is uncannily similar to HFR 3D viewing in a state of the art theater.

But they need to fix the brightness pops in 3D. The good news is they seem to be actively working on a fix for this. Shouldn't stop anyone from reporting the problem though.
post #6247 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

Any other comparisons to the ST60 are appreciated.

OK. I've got quite a bit of feedback on general stuff. I'm not one of these power-user videophiles, just a regular guy who loves watching movies and football.

So I tweaked the settings last night according to some posts I found online and got the image looking pretty good. I'm sure it could use a professional calibration, but the colors and everything looked lifelike. The only outstanding issue is that I see a lot of "grain" in the image because I turned off smoothing. That smoothing feature was hurting my eyes and giving me a headache. Also, it was having problems. Scenes with action would show lag, where motion would be really fast for a second, then get laggy as if the TV was trying to catch up. It also introduced some of the soap opera effect, which I'm not fond of. So I turned that off and am living with the grain for now.


Comparisons with the ST60/VT60 (I tried the VT60 in my house for a few days):

I think the F8500 has significantly better colors than the Panasonic panels. Even my girlfriend noticed and mentioned it. The colors just have a lot more "pop" to them, they're more lifelike and vibrant. The Panasonic panels have really terrible ABL, and that just kills the color accuracy. The worst thing about the Panasonics was that ANY scene with a lot of whites in it just gets really dull looking, and it just appears to crush every color on the screen. It's extremely noticeable and was one of the worst aspects of that screen. Both my girlfriend and I couldn't get over that, it was ruining movies for us. The ST60/VT60 has the worst whites I have ever seen on a television (my last panel was a Kuro).

A professional calibration did not improve it either. In daytime viewing, the ST60 and VT60 were just dull and lifeless no matter what I tried (or they became smeary and neon-looking when I boosted saturation). The F8500 has strong, natural, vivid color whether I'm viewing it at day or night time. To my eyes, it wasn't even a close comparison, the F8500 was leagues ahead. And my girlfriend heartily agreed.

We first put on the Avatar BluRay to test, both during the day and at night. Avatar looked gorgeous, and realistic enough to draw us in to the movie. We only wanted to watch a few scenes, but were drawn in and ended up watching about an hour of it, just oooohing and aaaahing the whole time. LOL.

The first thing we noticed was the colors looked real enough to overcome the "fakeness" of the CGI. And the added detail of the F8500 panel just blew us away. I mean, it was like going from DVD to BluRay. We watched a couple scenes that really highlighted the extreme difference between the panels - 1, the scene where the main character "Jake" is in the jungle when they first land, and he comes face to face with a herd of hammerhead rhino type beings and the alien panther-thing that chases him over the waterfall. We immediately noticed a strong difference in lifelike details in the hammerhead rhino aliens. It was amazing. We actually paused the movie so we could look at them. The detail was so crisp and clear that we could clearly make out all the details of the creatures and see why the characters were scared by them - they had gnarly teeth and strange hairs growing from their faces. And what had appeared to be purple smears on their heads on the ST60 turned out to be colored skin/armor in the center of their hammerheads. It really added to the movie, and made us watch the whole scene. We were blown away when Jake jumped off the waterfall and into the river. What had been a kind of muddy brown-green underwater scene on the ST60 became an eye-popping riveting action sequence with clearly visible droplets in the air as he is falling, bubbles in the water when he goes underwater, and we could even make out the current of the water as it pushed him through the rocks. We actually felt as if we were underwater with him. Truly stunning.

The second scene that really popped out was the flying sequence when Jake captures the red Toruk (a dragon thing). On the ST60 at night, the colors in that scene were pretty good and we were both impressed by the colors of the various flying dragons. My girlfriend mentioned that the Toruk was "pretty" and looked like a big butterfly. On the F8500, it was a wholly different experience. The colors were even more impressive, but what changed it for us was all the added detail. The scene really came to life. Suddenly, you could clearly make out the different red and yellow areas in Toruk's wings, and you could see his teeth and the snarl on his face as Jake flew him. It gave an added dimension to the film - you could feel the mix of terror and excitement that James Cameron probably intended with the scene. What had been a fun frivolous scene on the ST60 became an adrenaline-inducing thrill-ride! My girlfriend was really blown away by this and begged me to leave it on so she could watch the whole flight scene. My girlfriend is like most women, she would normally be looking at Facebook by then and playing along with a bored tone. Instead, she was riveted to her seat and like me, couldn't take her eyes off the scene. Most notably, after watching that scene (and about 20 more minutes of the movie), she turns to me and says, "We never need to go to a movie again." LOL.

Next, we put on the Dredd BluRay. It has a lot of dark scenes and city panoramas. Seemed a perfect test. And holy cow, did it ever blow us away. In one scene, there is a pan over the mega-city at night. We were both stunned and paused the movie so we could just stare at it. You could clearly make out the lights coming from each of the windows of the buildings, and the tiny red tail lights of the cars on the mega-highways contrasted beautifully with the inky dark buildings around them. I'm not sure how to put it into words, but it was beyond stunning and lifelike. The F8500 just kicks the ST60/VT60 to the curb on this movie. It's literally no contest. The ST60 gets lost on the huge contrast between the lights and darkness, and you end up with good shadow detail but poor contrast between the dark buildings and the tail lights on the streets and the glowing dark-orange sunset in the background. It does well with the colors, but noticeably drops detail and ends up looking a bit smeary again. On the F8500, the contrast and detail in ALL 3 elements just makes you feel as if you're actually there, looking at the most stunning city panorama you have ever seen. The sunset was gorgeous and lifelike. My girlfriend actually yelled, "Holy s***, that is awesome!" and she never swears. Again, we ended up watching another 30 minutes of the movie because we were just drawn in. Oh, and another thing we noticed was the drug sequences. There are these drug sequences ("slo-mo") where everything goes into slow motion and there are all these sparkles and neon colors on screen. On the ST60/VT60, these drug sequences were pretty impressive. On the F8500, it was out of this world. Again, the detail and added color of the F8500 panel just brings the scene to life. My girlfriend joked that it made her want to try crack cocaine for the first time.

Next, she begged me to put on one of her Disney cartoons (she loves Disney princesses). So we threw on some Disney flick, I don't know the title because frankly, I just handed her the remote and opened my laptop to go read my favorite football website. About 10 minutes into it, she's ooohing and aaahing, laughing and acting giddy like a child, so I look up and see the most gorgeous presentation of a cartoon I think I've ever seen. This is where the colors, detail and brightness of the F8500 really shine and make it stand head-and-shoulders over the ST60/VT60. I don't know what movie we were watching but it had some girl with curly red hair running through a forest. I think she was singing, but my brain was trying to shut it out. Anyway, you could make out each individual strand of hair, the various shades of red in her hair, and clearly see the details in the dark forest around her. My jaw dropped. I actually ended up watching about 10 minutes, just staring at various details in the cartoon. The best thing was the brightness. The F8500 presents a very bright, vivid image without hurting your eyes. We were watching this at night, and while the TV was showing searing, gorgeous colors, it didn't fatigue my eyes at all, and I found it hard to tear myself away from the movie. And I hate Disney. So that says something. By the end of this "test", I felt like a child again.

Then we started arguing about what to watch next. She wanted to see Blade Runner, I wanted to try out an older movie and felt that Westworld would be a good test. We ended up watching both. Both looked excellent. And again, the F8500 just kicked the ST60 square in the seat of the pants on both films. Especially on Blade Runner. Blade Runner is a dark film, with tons of detail in the shadows where most of the action takes place. On the ST60, it handled the shadows excellent, but the muted colors of the ST60 just seem to lose the brighter areas in the scenes. The F8500 does a far better job handling that duty, and the light/white areas jump out at you and really come to life. I don't know how the technical specs compare when it comes to contrast, but in real-world eyeball tests, the F8500 just has far far better contrast and is really stunning in contrasty scenes, where the ST60/VT60 (perhaps because of ABL?) just drops the white levels too much and appears to have far less contrast and punch in the bright areas.

About halfway into a scene in Blade Runner, my girlfriend goes ADHD and suddenly switches to Labyrinth. I should mention here, I have never once seen my girlfriend enthusiastic about ANYTHING to do with TVs or stereos. She's a girly-girl who loves to rhinestone her burlesque costumes and do girly stuff, and she has a strong distaste for technology-related stuff. She often teases me about this. But tonight, she is on a rampage and I'm loving it. So anyway, she throws on Labyrinth and we are just blown away.

We started with the scene where the big hairy monster thing is being hung upside-down and the girl character comes across him being tortured. We are both blown away, again by the details and stunning color of the F8500. We can clearly make out each individual leaf in the bushes around the girl, and each individual red hair on the monster. You can clearly see the differentiating colors of the hairs which adds to the realism of the scene. The contrast between the girl's skin and her cream-colored vest (with silver paisley things) is just stunning. Everything looks so lifelike. I am just struck by the contrast in the vest and her skin. We pause the movie so we can examine the details in her vest. It is amazing. And her skin isn't too reddish, like it was with the ST60/VT60. It's just perfect. And this is without a professional calibration, and maybe only 10 hours of break-in.

And last, I switch over to my HTPC to do some web browsing and general work. I'm blown away the computer display. This is another area where the F8500 just takes the VT60/ST60 to task. On the ST60, if you maximize a window to full-screen, the whole screen becomes noticeably darker due to the ABL. On the F8500, it just stays bright without hurting your eyes. Text on-screen looks good, nice and contrasty without pixellation. Easy to read. My Windows desktop looked really good, and I can't see any visual artifacts anywhere. Put up a slide that is full gray and don't see any banding. Played a video game and it looked stunning, with no noticeable lag (and I'm a hardcore FPS gamer).

And about black levels - quite a few of the movies we watched had the black bars. While they weren't quite as black as on the ST60/VT60, it was close enough that I can't imagine it being an issue for anyone. Ridiculous to me that people talk so much about it. Basically, you can't see the black bars. They don't have any glow to them or purplish tint like you see with LCDs. Both TVs are very close in that respect. But I actually prefer the blacks on the F8500, I think they show better detail and look more realistic. It was almost like the ST60/VT60 were "too black", like the engineers at Panasonic knew that videophile nerds love blacks so they just went overboard on their blacks trying to beat the Kuro. Whatever. I can't tell the difference in real viewing between any of those 3 plasmas - they all have excellent blacks.

Not sure what else to report here.

What I can say is that the F8500 was worth every penny. And to me, at least, there is no contest between the F8500 and the ST60/VT60. I would even choose the F8500 over the Kuro (which is currently in my gym) because I think the F8500 just has such better detail and color than the Kuro. Don't care what the nerds say, in real viewing, the F8500 is hands-down the best plasma, and indeed the best TV, I've ever seen. I can't wait to get home tonight and watch more movies. My girlfriend and I have decided to buy the Gremlins BluRay after work and watch it together. I love how this TV is so good that it even makes my girlfriend get into movies. That is awesome.

Anyway... let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them.
post #6248 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Thanks! So It pages up and down using the touchpad remote? When I hit my channel up or down when guide is up on my touchpad remote it just changes the channel and I have to start over again.
My 8500 guide also pages up and down when I press the ch up/down buttons (while in guide view). The only way for me to change the channel is to press the touch pad area. I'm not using the IR receiver I got with the tv. Functionality seems fine without the IR receiver. Wile watching tv, If I swipe upward on the touch panel remote, I get a channel guide with a large size picture on the left side of the screen, and guide on the right side of the screen. If I swipe down on the touch panel remote while watching tv, I have a mini-guide pop up at the bottom of the tv...it gets superimposed over the tv display. Pretty nice!!
Edited by DanF8500 - 5/17/13 at 11:14am
post #6249 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

My 8500 guide also pages up and down when I press the ch up/down buttons (while in guide view). The only way for me to change the channel is to press the touch pad area. I'm not using the IR receiver I got with the tv. Functionality seems fine without the IR receiver. Wile watching tv, If I swipe upward on the touch panel remote, I get a channel guide with a large size picture on the left side of the screen, and guide on the right side of the screen. If I swipe down on the touch panel remote while watching tv, I have a mini-guide pop up at the bottom of the tv...it gets superimposed over the tv display. Pretty nice!!

Dan, I went back and tried it again and it is now working for me. smile.gif Not sure what went wrong, but that makes it a whole lot easier to use now. Are you using a cable box? If so how is it changing the channels on the cable box when you enter a channel on the samsungs guide? I thought the IR receiver was needed for it to change the channels on the cable box. If I swipe up or down on the touchpad I get only the mini guide for my cable box.

If I hold down the touch pad I get a channel guide with a large size picture on the left side of the screen, and Samsungs mini guide on the right side of the screen.

By the way any channels that you dont want to show up in the OnTv smart hub you can delete them from the menu options on channel edit but what sucks is the channel still shows up in the samsung guide but just doesnt list the information for it.
Edited by surfmlb - 5/17/13 at 11:39am
post #6250 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

OK. I've got quite a bit of feedback on general stuff. I'm not one of these power-user videophiles, just a regular guy who loves watching movies and football.

So I tweaked the settings last night according to some posts I found online and got the image looking pretty good. I'm sure it could use a professional calibration, but the colors and everything looked lifelike. The only outstanding issue is that I see a lot of "grain" in the image because I turned off smoothing. That smoothing feature was hurting my eyes and giving me a headache. Also, it was having problems. Scenes with action would show lag, where motion would be really fast for a second, then get laggy as if the TV was trying to catch up. It also introduced some of the soap opera effect, which I'm not fond of. So I turned that off and am living with the grain for now.


Comparisons with the ST60/VT60 (I tried the VT60 in my house for a few days):

I think the F8500 has significantly better colors than the Panasonic panels. Even my girlfriend noticed and mentioned it. The colors just have a lot more "pop" to them, they're more lifelike and vibrant. The Panasonic panels have really terrible ABL, and that just kills the color accuracy. The worst thing about the Panasonics was that ANY scene with a lot of whites in it just gets really dull looking, and it just appears to crush every color on the screen. It's extremely noticeable and was one of the worst aspects of that screen. Both my girlfriend and I couldn't get over that, it was ruining movies for us. The ST60/VT60 has the worst whites I have ever seen on a television (my last panel was a Kuro).

A professional calibration did not improve it either. In daytime viewing, the ST60 and VT60 were just dull and lifeless no matter what I tried (or they became smeary and neon-looking when I boosted saturation). The F8500 has strong, natural, vivid color whether I'm viewing it at day or night time. To my eyes, it wasn't even a close comparison, the F8500 was leagues ahead. And my girlfriend heartily agreed.

We first put on the Avatar BluRay to test, both during the day and at night. Avatar looked gorgeous, and realistic enough to draw us in to the movie. We only wanted to watch a few scenes, but were drawn in and ended up watching about an hour of it, just oooohing and aaaahing the whole time. LOL.

The first thing we noticed was the colors looked real enough to overcome the "fakeness" of the CGI. And the added detail of the F8500 panel just blew us away. I mean, it was like going from DVD to BluRay. We watched a couple scenes that really highlighted the extreme difference between the panels - 1, the scene where the main character "Jake" is in the jungle when they first land, and he comes face to face with a herd of hammerhead rhino type beings and the alien panther-thing that chases him over the waterfall. We immediately noticed a strong difference in lifelike details in the hammerhead rhino aliens. It was amazing. We actually paused the movie so we could look at them. The detail was so crisp and clear that we could clearly make out all the details of the creatures and see why the characters were scared by them - they had gnarly teeth and strange hairs growing from their faces. And what had appeared to be purple smears on their heads on the ST60 turned out to be colored skin/armor in the center of their hammerheads. It really added to the movie, and made us watch the whole scene. We were blown away when Jake jumped off the waterfall and into the river. What had been a kind of muddy brown-green underwater scene on the ST60 became an eye-popping riveting action sequence with clearly visible droplets in the air as he is falling, bubbles in the water when he goes underwater, and we could even make out the current of the water as it pushed him through the rocks. We actually felt as if we were underwater with him. Truly stunning.

The second scene that really popped out was the flying sequence when Jake captures the red Toruk (a dragon thing). On the ST60 at night, the colors in that scene were pretty good and we were both impressed by the colors of the various flying dragons. My girlfriend mentioned that the Toruk was "pretty" and looked like a big butterfly. On the F8500, it was a wholly different experience. The colors were even more impressive, but what changed it for us was all the added detail. The scene really came to life. Suddenly, you could clearly make out the different red and yellow areas in Toruk's wings, and you could see his teeth and the snarl on his face as Jake flew him. It gave an added dimension to the film - you could feel the mix of terror and excitement that James Cameron probably intended with the scene. What had been a fun frivolous scene on the ST60 became an adrenaline-inducing thrill-ride! My girlfriend was really blown away by this and begged me to leave it on so she could watch the whole flight scene. My girlfriend is like most women, she would normally be looking at Facebook by then and playing along with a bored tone. Instead, she was riveted to her seat and like me, couldn't take her eyes off the scene. Most notably, after watching that scene (and about 20 more minutes of the movie), she turns to me and says, "We never need to go to a movie again." LOL.

Next, we put on the Dredd BluRay. It has a lot of dark scenes and city panoramas. Seemed a perfect test. And holy cow, did it ever blow us away. In one scene, there is a pan over the mega-city at night. We were both stunned and paused the movie so we could just stare at it. You could clearly make out the lights coming from each of the windows of the buildings, and the tiny red tail lights of the cars on the mega-highways contrasted beautifully with the inky dark buildings around them. I'm not sure how to put it into words, but it was beyond stunning and lifelike. The F8500 just kicks the ST60/VT60 to the curb on this movie. It's literally no contest. The ST60 gets lost on the huge contrast between the lights and darkness, and you end up with good shadow detail but poor contrast between the dark buildings and the tail lights on the streets and the glowing dark-orange sunset in the background. It does well with the colors, but noticeably drops detail and ends up looking a bit smeary again. On the F8500, the contrast and detail in ALL 3 elements just makes you feel as if you're actually there, looking at the most stunning city panorama you have ever seen. The sunset was gorgeous and lifelike. My girlfriend actually yelled, "Holy s***, that is awesome!" and she never swears. Again, we ended up watching another 30 minutes of the movie because we were just drawn in. Oh, and another thing we noticed was the drug sequences. There are these drug sequences ("slo-mo") where everything goes into slow motion and there are all these sparkles and neon colors on screen. On the ST60/VT60, these drug sequences were pretty impressive. On the F8500, it was out of this world. Again, the detail and added color of the F8500 panel just brings the scene to life. My girlfriend joked that it made her want to try crack cocaine for the first time.

Next, she begged me to put on one of her Disney cartoons (she loves Disney princesses). So we threw on some Disney flick, I don't know the title because frankly, I just handed her the remote and opened my laptop to go read my favorite football website. About 10 minutes into it, she's ooohing and aaahing, laughing and acting giddy like a child, so I look up and see the most gorgeous presentation of a cartoon I think I've ever seen. This is where the colors, detail and brightness of the F8500 really shine and make it stand head-and-shoulders over the ST60/VT60. I don't know what movie we were watching but it had some girl with curly red hair running through a forest. I think she was singing, but my brain was trying to shut it out. Anyway, you could make out each individual strand of hair, the various shades of red in her hair, and clearly see the details in the dark forest around her. My jaw dropped. I actually ended up watching about 10 minutes, just staring at various details in the cartoon. The best thing was the brightness. The F8500 presents a very bright, vivid image without hurting your eyes. We were watching this at night, and while the TV was showing searing, gorgeous colors, it didn't fatigue my eyes at all, and I found it hard to tear myself away from the movie. And I hate Disney. So that says something. By the end of this "test", I felt like a child again.

Then we started arguing about what to watch next. She wanted to see Blade Runner, I wanted to try out an older movie and felt that Westworld would be a good test. We ended up watching both. Both looked excellent. And again, the F8500 just kicked the ST60 square in the seat of the pants on both films. Especially on Blade Runner. Blade Runner is a dark film, with tons of detail in the shadows where most of the action takes place. On the ST60, it handled the shadows excellent, but the muted colors of the ST60 just seem to lose the brighter areas in the scenes. The F8500 does a far better job handling that duty, and the light/white areas jump out at you and really come to life. I don't know how the technical specs compare when it comes to contrast, but in real-world eyeball tests, the F8500 just has far far better contrast and is really stunning in contrasty scenes, where the ST60/VT60 (perhaps because of ABL?) just drops the white levels too much and appears to have far less contrast and punch in the bright areas.

About halfway into a scene in Blade Runner, my girlfriend goes ADHD and suddenly switches to Labyrinth. I should mention here, I have never once seen my girlfriend enthusiastic about ANYTHING to do with TVs or stereos. She's a girly-girl who loves to rhinestone her burlesque costumes and do girly stuff, and she has a strong distaste for technology-related stuff. She often teases me about this. But tonight, she is on a rampage and I'm loving it. So anyway, she throws on Labyrinth and we are just blown away.

We started with the scene where the big hairy monster thing is being hung upside-down and the girl character comes across him being tortured. We are both blown away, again by the details and stunning color of the F8500. We can clearly make out each individual leaf in the bushes around the girl, and each individual red hair on the monster. You can clearly see the differentiating colors of the hairs which adds to the realism of the scene. The contrast between the girl's skin and her cream-colored vest (with silver paisley things) is just stunning. Everything looks so lifelike. I am just struck by the contrast in the vest and her skin. We pause the movie so we can examine the details in her vest. It is amazing. And her skin isn't too reddish, like it was with the ST60/VT60. It's just perfect. And this is without a professional calibration, and maybe only 10 hours of break-in.

And last, I switch over to my HTPC to do some web browsing and general work. I'm blown away the computer display. This is another area where the F8500 just takes the VT60/ST60 to task. On the ST60, if you maximize a window to full-screen, the whole screen becomes noticeably darker due to the ABL. On the F8500, it just stays bright without hurting your eyes. Text on-screen looks good, nice and contrasty without pixellation. Easy to read. My Windows desktop looked really good, and I can't see any visual artifacts anywhere. Put up a slide that is full gray and don't see any banding. Played a video game and it looked stunning, with no noticeable lag (and I'm a hardcore FPS gamer).

And about black levels - quite a few of the movies we watched had the black bars. While they weren't quite as black as on the ST60/VT60, it was close enough that I can't imagine it being an issue for anyone. Ridiculous to me that people talk so much about it. Basically, you can't see the black bars. They don't have any glow to them or purplish tint like you see with LCDs. Both TVs are very close in that respect. But I actually prefer the blacks on the F8500, I think they show better detail and look more realistic. It was almost like the ST60/VT60 were "too black", like the engineers at Panasonic knew that videophile nerds love blacks so they just went overboard on their blacks trying to beat the Kuro. Whatever. I can't tell the difference in real viewing between any of those 3 plasmas - they all have excellent blacks.

Not sure what else to report here.

What I can say is that the F8500 was worth every penny. And to me, at least, there is no contest between the F8500 and the ST60/VT60. I would even choose the F8500 over the Kuro (which is currently in my gym) because I think the F8500 just has such better detail and color than the Kuro. Don't care what the nerds say, in real viewing, the F8500 is hands-down the best plasma, and indeed the best TV, I've ever seen. I can't wait to get home tonight and watch more movies. My girlfriend and I have decided to buy the Gremlins BluRay after work and watch it together. I love how this TV is so good that it even makes my girlfriend get into movies. That is awesome.

Anyway... let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them.
I believe caeguy got his request.....dang that makes me want to cancel my ST that's on the way frown.gif
post #6251 of 11559
geezuz747 - Thanks for the detailed write-up. I'm becoming more convinced that the F8500 is for me.
post #6252 of 11559
Tim Akin -

If you have a chance, I would. IMHO, there is no comparison between the 2. Even in a really dark room, I still think the F8500 has better color and detail, and noticeably so. I'm actually surprised at all the reviews that seem to pick the Panasonic T60 panels as the "best." I just think they're so dim it takes away from the experience.

Although, in a perfectly black environment, the ST60 is a great panel, don't get me wrong. I was worried when I exchanged it that I wouldn't be as happy with the F8500. That's why I tried the VT60 first. In a dark room, the picture on the ST60 is truly stunning. I had it right next to my Kuro that everyone raves about, and I think it has a slightly better picture than the Kuro.

I honestly don't understand the reviews either. I think people are going too much by what it says on paper. Like scientific results. Well, this TV has the better gamut and color space is most accurate so it must be the best picture, right?

When it comes down to it, it's what YOU see with your own eyes that counts. My eyes definitely prefer the picture on the F8500. As I said, if I had the ST60 on order, I'd cancel in a heartbeat and try to find a deal on the F8500, even if it was a slightly smaller size. The extra detail alone is like going from DVD to BluRay.
post #6253 of 11559
Looking for some convincing that the F8500 is the way to go.

I believe the reviews, and feedback here about has me sold. My only issue is that it's a Samsung and I've been screwed over 2x now with their blu-rays being crippled with firmware and crummy DLNA support.

I have see how proactive Sammy has been with the brightness pop issue, but I'm just concerned they will push something on their TV's that will infuriate me again.

Can anyone speak to their long term experience with Samsung Plasmas, or any recent contact with customer service?

Thanks!
post #6254 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Tim Akin -

If you have a chance, I would. IMHO, there is no comparison between the 2. Even in a really dark room, I still think the F8500 has better color and detail, and noticeably so. I'm actually surprised at all the reviews that seem to pick the Panasonic T60 panels as the "best." I just think they're so dim it takes away from the experience.

Although, in a perfectly black environment, the ST60 is a great panel, don't get me wrong. I was worried when I exchanged it that I wouldn't be as happy with the F8500. That's why I tried the VT60 first. In a dark room, the picture on the ST60 is truly stunning. I had it right next to my Kuro that everyone raves about, and I think it has a slightly better picture than the Kuro.

I honestly don't understand the reviews either. I think people are going too much by what it says on paper. Like scientific results. Well, this TV has the better gamut and color space is most accurate so it must be the best picture, right?

When it comes down to it, it's what YOU see with your own eyes that counts. My eyes definitely prefer the picture on the F8500. As I said, if I had the ST60 on order, I'd cancel in a heartbeat and try to find a deal on the F8500, even if it was a slightly smaller size. The extra detail alone is like going from DVD to BluRay.
So did the ST or BT have technical problems or you just didn't like pq?
post #6255 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Tim Akin -

If you have a chance, I would. IMHO, there is no comparison between the 2. Even in a really dark room, I still think the F8500 has better color and detail, and noticeably so. I'm actually surprised at all the reviews that seem to pick the Panasonic T60 panels as the "best." I just think they're so dim it takes away from the experience.

Although, in a perfectly black environment, the ST60 is a great panel, don't get me wrong. I was worried when I exchanged it that I wouldn't be as happy with the F8500. That's why I tried the VT60 first. In a dark room, the picture on the ST60 is truly stunning. I had it right next to my Kuro that everyone raves about, and I think it has a slightly better picture than the Kuro.

I honestly don't understand the reviews either. I think people are going too much by what it says on paper. Like scientific results. Well, this TV has the better gamut and color space is most accurate so it must be the best picture, right?

When it comes down to it, it's what YOU see with your own eyes that counts. My eyes definitely prefer the picture on the F8500. As I said, if I had the ST60 on order, I'd cancel in a heartbeat and try to find a deal on the F8500, even if it was a slightly smaller size. The extra detail alone is like going from DVD to BluRay.

Great point about going by your eyes in this case.

So, even in a total black room are the F8500 blacks very close to the Panasonic? I've talked to six or seven people from the Shootout and everyone said they were extremely close and the small amount of material where the Panasonics appeared darker was so very slight that is was inconsequential. The only reason I would consider a Panasonic would be because of blacks and black stability, but if the two brands are that close...
post #6256 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Tim Akin -

If you have a chance, I would. IMHO, there is no comparison between the 2. Even in a really dark room, I still think the F8500 has better color and detail, and noticeably so. I'm actually surprised at all the reviews that seem to pick the Panasonic T60 panels as the "best." I just think they're so dim it takes away from the experience.

Although, in a perfectly black environment, the ST60 is a great panel, don't get me wrong. I was worried when I exchanged it that I wouldn't be as happy with the F8500. That's why I tried the VT60 first. In a dark room, the picture on the ST60 is truly stunning. I had it right next to my Kuro that everyone raves about, and I think it has a slightly better picture than the Kuro.

I honestly don't understand the reviews either. I think people are going too much by what it says on paper. Like scientific results. Well, this TV has the better gamut and color space is most accurate so it must be the best picture, right?

When it comes down to it, it's what YOU see with your own eyes that counts. My eyes definitely prefer the picture on the F8500. As I said, if I had the ST60 on order, I'd cancel in a heartbeat and try to find a deal on the F8500, even if it was a slightly smaller size. The extra detail alone is like going from DVD to BluRay.

So you had the VT60 in your home and it was broken in and professionally calibrated in a few days ?
post #6257 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

Any other comparisons to the ST60 are appreciated.

OK. I've got quite a bit of feedback on general stuff. I'm not one of these power-user videophiles, just a regular guy who loves watching movies and football.

Anyway... let me know if you have any specific questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

Thanks for the great feedback. A few questions!

1) did you have the latest firmware? (Some feel some detail was lost with it)

2) was any of your viewing (for example Avatar) in 3d?

3) with your htpc, any line bleed?

4) with your htpc, any mouse lag? Did you have to use any of the lag-reducing tricks? (Like PC labelling)

5) did you use different day and night settings?

Thanks again for the very detailed post!
post #6258 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Dan, I went back and tried it again and it is now working for me. smile.gif Not sure what went wrong, but that makes it a whole lot easier to use now. Are you using a cable box? If so how is it changing the channels on the cable box when you enter a channel on the samsungs guide? I thought the IR receiver was needed for it to change the channels on the cable box. If I swipe up or down on the touchpad I get only the mini guide for my cable box.

If I hold down the touch pad I get a channel guide with a large size picture on the left side of the screen, and Samsungs mini guide on the right side of the screen.

By the way any channels that you dont want to show up in the OnTv smart hub you can delete them from the menu options on channel edit but what sucks is the channel still shows up in the samsung guide but just doesnt list the information for it.
I have a verizon fios stb. What seems to be happening is when I swipe up and down the samsung guide and then select the channel I want to view, the tv is sending channel codes (via bluetooth ?) to the touch pad remote, then the remote is sending those codes via IR to my stb. As long as I have the remote pointed in the direction of my stb, the proper channel codes get sent there. If I point the touchpad remote away from the stb after selecting a guide channel, the codes don't make it to my stb.

Update: the swipe up/down feature of the touchpad remote will bring up my stb's mini/medium guides, so it is "stb" specific as to what types of guides will be shown when swiping up and down on the touchpad remote. For a verizon fios remote , pressing the up/down buttons is no different than swiping up and down on the tv's touchpad remote.
Edited by DanF8500 - 5/17/13 at 12:19pm
post #6259 of 11559
geezuz747 -- Glad you are happy with your new F8500. But you lost me entirely with your "the F8500 has significantly better colors than the Panasonic panels, "F8500 was leagues ahead," "added detail of the F8500 just blew us away," "The F8500 just kicks the ST60/VT60 to the curb on this movie," "make it stand head-and-shoulders over the ST60/VT60," etc. And no input lag for PC gaming? That doesn't jive with what has been reported by others.

Go 'Hawks!
post #6260 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

So you had the VT60 in your home and it was broken in and professionally calibrated in a few days ?
Yea, that's not a red flag.rolleyes.gif
post #6261 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Yea, that's not a red flag.rolleyes.gif

If you read it closely other inconsistencies, granted detailed post I just question some of the statements about professional calibration that were made but people will gobble up what supports there own thoughts without questioning the source.
post #6262 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by nclion View Post

Looking for some convincing that the F8500 is the way to go.

I believe the reviews, and feedback here about has me sold. My only issue is that it's a Samsung and I've been screwed over 2x now with their blu-rays being crippled with firmware and crummy DLNA support.

I have see how proactive Sammy has been with the brightness pop issue, but I'm just concerned they will push something on their TV's that will infuriate me again.

Can anyone speak to their long term experience with Samsung Plasmas, or any recent contact with customer service?

Thanks!

The added 3 months they give you on warranty for registering the products gave me 15 months on my D7000. When my fluctuating brightness issue returned after the "fix" Samsung was pretty great about giving me a full refund. I got the impression that they definitely wanted me to be a satisfied customer and I have been nothing but ecstatic about my F8500.
post #6263 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

If you read it closely other inconsistencies, granted detailed post I just question some of the statements about professional calibration that were made but people will gobble up what supports there own thoughts without questioning the source.

Did he say he had the VT calibrated? I would agree with you that after a few days (unless broken in before and calibrated) would not be normal.....The problem is that the word "calibration" get thrown around so much, that the actual term used and known here as calibration is gettign twisted. People start chaing their settings and say they are calibrating....

Hopefully people sue reports with a grain of salt wink.gif good and bad as they are only small data points in the over all decision making process.....
post #6264 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by donstim View Post

geezuz747 -- Glad you are happy with your new F8500. But you lost me entirely with your "the F8500 has significantly better colors than the Panasonic panels, "F8500 was leagues ahead," "added detail of the F8500 just blew us away," "The F8500 just kicks the ST60/VT60 to the curb on this movie," "make it stand head-and-shoulders over the ST60/VT60," etc. And no input lag for PC gaming? That doesn't jive with what has been reported by others.

Exactly. rolleyes.gif There's only one thing to do after reading such a post...
post #6265 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

So did the ST or BT have technical problems or you just didn't like pq?

No real technical "problems" that I can think of. Yes, I didn't feel the picture quality was up to par with the F8500. At night time, it was great. But during the day, it was just too dim for my living environment. Like I said earlier, I have two full walls of glass in my living area, so lots of light. During the day, the picture was so dim that you could barely see what was on screen. And I don't feel the colors were as punchy. Not sure how to describe it, just that the T60 panels were a little more dull and constrained.
post #6266 of 11559
I have done three comparisons now of the VT60 to the F8500. The F8500 simply shows more detail than the VT60 can show. The Hobbit and Prometheus are both excellent demo discs. Chapter 3 of The Hobbit clearly shows how much more detail the F8500 can bring out compared to the VT60. The amount of detail in Gandalf's face is simply amazing with the F8500 whereas the VT60 dulls these details and they are simply not as visible. The contrast the F8500 is capable of delivering makes the landscape scenes of the Shire just pop full of contrast and detail, whereas the details in the same landscape scenes of the Shire get lost or blurred by the VT60. Chapter 1 of Prometheus shows much more landscape details than the VT60 is capable of showing. For example, look at the water running in the river in chapter 1 and you can see much more contrast and thus detail than the VT60 is capable of producing. The clarity or sharpness of the F8500 panel is superior to that of the VT60. The contrast the F8500 is able to produce also contributes to the clarity or sharpness of the F8500 panel. Yes, the VT60 can get darker than the F8500, but not by an order of magnitude to dismiss the F8500. Both have similar black levels, but the F8500 can get much brighter making fine details stand out better than the VT60 can produce. Now in blurays that don't have a lot of fine detail brought out by contrast, the VT60 looks darn good and I can see how one would prefer the VT60 over the F8500 in a dark room setting. The F8500 is a "reference" product in my book. I'm not waiting for the VT60 to catch up, the ZT60 to get to the showroom with is lower light output than the VT60, OLED to come out, or to see if the rumors about the 4K Sharp Elite are true. I'm getting the 64" F8500. Only 4K can beat the picture sharpness of the F8500 and while a Sharp Elite 4K sounds awesome, since watching a plasma panel, I don't want to go back to LCD. BTW, I passed up a 60" Elite at MHT for $2,999 in perfect condition in favor of the F8500. For anyone that has not experience plasma yet, yep, the F8500 is better than the best of the LCD offerings.
post #6267 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Did he say he had the VT calibrated? I would agree with you that after a few days (unless broken in before and calibrated) would not be normal.....The problem is that the word "calibration" get thrown around so much, that the actual term used and known here as calibration is gettign twisted. People start chaing their settings and say they are calibrating....

Hopefully people sue reports with a grain of salt wink.gif good and bad as they are only small data points in the over all decision making process.....

You are the ultimate politician lol I see things more black and white smile.gif He alluded to "professional" calibration in his posts, also indicated he compared material on all three sets but only had the vt60 in his home for a few days hmmmmm ....
post #6268 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I have a verizon fios stb. What seems to be happening is when I swipe up and down the samsung guide and then select the channel I want to view, the tv is sending channel codes (via bluetooth ?) to the touch pad remote, then the remote is sending those codes via IR to my stb. As long as I have the remote pointed in the direction of my stb, the proper channel codes get sent there. If I point the touchpad remote away from the stb after selecting a guide channel, the codes don't make it to my stb.

Update: the swipe up/down feature of the touchpad remote will bring up my stb's mini/medium guides, so it is "stb" specific as to what types of guides will be shown when swiping up and down on the touchpad remote. For a verizon fios remote , pressing the up/down buttons is no different than swiping up and down on the tv's touchpad remote.

That makes sense so it uses both bluetooth and IR. What I like better is that If you use the provided IR receiver and set it in front of your cable box then you don't have to worry about pointing it in that direction. That is what I like about this remote I can be sitting on it while I change channels and it still works.
post #6269 of 11559
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Great point about going by your eyes in this case.

So, even in a total black room are the F8500 blacks very close to the Panasonic? I've talked to six or seven people from the Shootout and everyone said they were extremely close and the small amount of material where the Panasonics appeared darker was so very slight that is was inconsequential. The only reason I would consider a Panasonic would be because of blacks and black stability, but if the two brands are that close...

Correct. The ST60 had slightly blacker blacks. The best test I found was looking at the top and bottom black bars during a movie in a dark room.

You can see that the ST60 is slightly darker. It was truly impressive. For instance, the ending credits in Labyrinth are white letters on a black background. In a dark room, it looks insanely good. The white text just seems to pop out of nowhere, because the black is so black that you can't even see the TV itself, just the text popping out. Not sure how to describe it other than to say the black is totally 100% black and fits it into the darkness of the room, you don't see any backlight, etc.

The F8500 is slightly less black. Very slightly. As in, I can barely see a slight backlight, it is an extremely dark grey, but if you stare long enough, you can tell the difference between the bezel, the black bars of the film, and the movie itself. Just barely. And definitely not enough to take away from the film. The closing credits of Labyrinth still pop out at you. And here is where the better contrast really shines, because I felt the white text was much whiter and brighter on the F8500 so it had the same pop, even though the black bars weren't completely 100% black (more like 99.5% black).

The Kuro is in between both. I feel that the ST60/VT60 has better blacks than the Kuro and don't care what nerds say about their measurement tools. My girlfriend and I both noticed it. The ST60 has amazing blacks. So if all you care about is having really really black blacks, you can't beat the ST60.

of course, I watch movies to see the stuff in the movie rather than the blacks, but whatever. To each their own, I guess.
post #6270 of 11559
^Blacks are one of the prime ingredients for great contrast ratios (the most important parameter of PQ in my experience). I think you're confusing great blacks with crushed blacks (not that the ST or VT does this, but you are watching in a window-laden room).
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubusduck View Post

Both have similar black levels, but the F8500 can get much brighter making fine details stand out better than the VT60 can produce
I think this perception is related more to the video processing and perhaps the sub/pixel structure, not the brightness.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Plasma Flat Panel Displays
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk]