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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 210

post #6271 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

That makes sense so it uses both bluetooth and IR. What I like better is that If you use the provided IR receiver and set it in front of your cable box then you don't have to worry about pointing it in that direction. That is what I like about this remote I can be sitting on it while I change channels and it still works.
Okay, I see the need for the IR receiver now. I wish the "guide" button would bring up my stb's full guide. That would be really nice!! The Samsung guide is just not that usable at it's current state.
post #6272 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I think this perception is related more to the video processing and perhaps the sub/pixel structure, not the brightness.

Completely agree.
post #6273 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

No real technical "problems" that I can think of. Yes, I didn't feel the picture quality was up to par with the F8500. At night time, it was great. But during the day, it was just too dim for my living environment. Like I said earlier, I have two full walls of glass in my living area, so lots of light. During the day, the picture was so dim that you could barely see what was on screen. And I don't feel the colors were as punchy. Not sure how to describe it, just that the T60 panels were a little more dull and constrained.
Some of the things sure saying is just hard for me to swallow, just not what others have been reporting. I'm not saying your not seeing it though, I'm just saying I would have to see it for myself.
post #6274 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

So you had the VT60 in your home and it was broken in and professionally calibrated in a few days ?

No. Where did I say I did that?

I had the ST60 for 3 weeks. I ran the slides that were in the ST60 thread on this forum. The slides that the pro calibrator dude put in the dedicated thread and everyone said you should run before doing his calibration. I ran those for a solid week while I was in Vegas. Then I paid to have an ISF calibration from a guy recommended by my local Video Only. He did a good job and had the light meter thing and all that. He spent about 2-3 hours on it, I think. Don't really know because I was outside cooking some steaks and enjoying the sunlight, and frankly, I'm not into video enough to hang out and watch him the whole time.

I haven't calibrated the F8500 or run any slides on it yet. I just got it yesterday, did a crude basic calibration using different settings and just going by what I like, and went with that. And yeah, even without a pro calibration, the F8500 spanks the ST60 and even my girlfriend saw it. She commented on it and she hates electronics. So believe whatever you want, it doesn't matter to me. Going by my eyes, and by my girlfriend's eyes, the F8500 has the best picture. And that jives with the shootout results I saw, where the regular people all loved the F8500 and rated it higher than the ST/VT60 by a good margin, while the professional video nerds were all looking at charts and graphs and rating the Panasonic better because of numbers on a piece of paper.
post #6275 of 11459
This thread is moving fast. I edited my last post to respond to the one preceding it. smile.gif
post #6276 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

No. Where did I say I did that?

I had the ST60 for 3 weeks. I ran the slides that were in the ST60 thread on this forum. The slides that the pro calibrator dude put in the dedicated thread and everyone said you should run before doing his calibration. I ran those for a solid week while I was in Vegas. Then I paid to have an ISF calibration from a guy recommended by my local Video Only. He did a good job and had the light meter thing and all that. He spent about 2-3 hours on it, I think. Don't really know because I was outside cooking some steaks and enjoying the sunlight, and frankly, I'm not into video enough to hang out and watch him the whole time.

I haven't calibrated the F8500 or run any slides on it yet. I just got it yesterday, did a crude basic calibration using different settings and just going by what I like, and went with that. And yeah, even without a pro calibration, the F8500 spanks the ST60 and even my girlfriend saw it. She commented on it and she hates electronics. So believe whatever you want, it doesn't matter to me. Going by my eyes, and by my girlfriend's eyes, the F8500 has the best picture. And that jives with the shootout results I saw, where the regular people all loved the F8500 and rated it higher than the ST/VT60 by a good margin, while the professional video nerds were all looking at charts and graphs and rating the Panasonic better because of numbers on a piece of paper.
The VT and ST are separate televisions, so I'm just curious as to why you keep lumping them together. The former should look even better postcalibration.

At the shootout, I am not so sure it was a "good margin" by which it was rated better when we average out the categories. In fact, the margin was pretty thin with a difference of only 0.2. If you value daytime viewing more than night, it likely puts the 8500 at a greater relative advantage.
Edited by vinnie97 - 5/17/13 at 1:12pm
post #6277 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

I'm just saying I would have to see it for myself.
If at all possible thats what everyone should do before buying a tv.
post #6278 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

...I can be sitting on it while I change channels and it still works.

*imagines such a feat*

You should join Cirque my friend smile.gif
post #6279 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You are the ultimate politician lol I see things more black and white smile.gif He alluded to "professional" calibration in his posts, also indicated he compared material on all three sets but only had the vt60 in his home for a few days hmmmmm ....

That is false. I owned the ST60 for 3 weeks. I owned the VT60 for a full week. I have owned the F8500 for 2 days now. smile.gif

Considering that I owned the Panasonic panels for a total of one month, I felt that I had enough to go on that I could judge by what I was seeing. And the only reason I owned those panels that long was because I was allowing my opinion to be swayed by what I was reading on this forum. Everyone said the ST60/VT60 were the best panels in the world, so I kept tweaking and tweaking them and wondering why I wasn't liking it that much.
post #6280 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Okay, I see the need for the IR receiver now. I wish the "guide" button would bring up my stb's full guide. That would be really nice!! The Samsung guide is just not that usable at it's current state.

Funny you say that because it did bring up the full guide with one of the older firmwares. Maybe they will bring it back in the future.
post #6281 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

*imagines such a feat*

You should join Cirque my friend smile.gif

I thought thats how you did your calibrations my friend biggrin.gif
post #6282 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

That is false. I owned the ST60 for 3 weeks. I owned the VT60 for a full week. I have owned the F8500 for 2 days now. smile.gif

Considering that I owned the Panasonic panels for a total of one month, I felt that I had enough to go on that I could judge by what I was seeing. And the only reason I owned those panels that long was because I was allowing my opinion to be swayed by what I was reading on this forum. Everyone said the ST60/VT60 were the best panels in the world, so I kept tweaking and tweaking them and wondering why I wasn't liking it that much.
Makes sense to me. The only thing I see hurting you is that you act like the 8500 blows them away. I think most people even here just dont find that realistic. But thanks for the review. It is helpful.
post #6283 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

If at all possible thats what everyone should do before buying a tv.
Man I would love nothing more than to get an ST and 8500 in my home for just one day. I have seen both in BB but you know how that is, didn't come away with much.
post #6284 of 11459
Anybody using any of the smart features? If so, What do you think?

I think Vudu HDX looks awesome. They have some free material like trailers and stuff and when you register they give you $5.99 credit. I saw The Man with the Iron Fists it was pretty entertaining.
post #6285 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

Some of the things sure saying is just hard for me to swallow, just not what others have been reporting. I'm not saying your not seeing it though, I'm just saying I would have to see it for myself.

And that's what you SHOULD do. Spend some time with both in your own environment, watching stuff that you like to watch. Go by what you see versus what you read on this forum. I wasted too much time with the ST60 because everyone on this forum kept saying it's the best television ever. So I kept telling myself that it was great, when in fact, it was so dim that it was unwatchable unless it was dark inside my room.

I'm a big football fan, so I want to be able to watch my TV during the day when the games are on. For me, it's a no-brainer. I had the VT60 sitting side-by-side with the F8500 when they first delivered it, and had the same SuperBowl recording (1080p) playing on both. This was at about 1:00pm when the F8500 was delivered. Even the delivery guys were laughing and commenting on how the F8500 just blew away the VT60. About all you could see on my VT60 was the reflections of my living room, and a very dim picture with whites that looked more like brown. The F8500 just popped. It had no problem dealing with the sunlight in my living room, the picture was bright and vivid, and you could clearly see all the details in the game, including the awesomeness of Kaepernick's crying face when the 49ers lost to the Ravens (oh sweet glory). The VT60 just looks smeary compared to the F8500, not sure how to put it in technical terms. The details aren't there at all. The colors are okay in a dark room, but the detail just isn't there. And no, from everything I've read from regular people on Amazon, from the shootout thread, and from this thread as well, they're having a very similar experience to mine.

But again, you have to try for yourself. Stop listening to these people online. They can't tell you what your eyes are going to like. My eyes greatly prefer the better colors and detail and brightness of the F8500. Maybe you'll prefer staring at the black bars on the VT60 because I will admit, it has awesome blacks.
post #6286 of 11459
Anyone that makes the kind of over the top comments you are making is in IMO exaggerating to make a point ill leave you to your opinions enjoy your new set
post #6287 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Akin View Post

Man I would love nothing more than to get an ST and 8500 in my home for just one day. I have seen both in BB but you know how that is, didn't come away with much.
Completely understand. As knowledgeable and experienced as most people here are though you can get a pretty good idea if you get the opportunity to spend some time with them and play with the settings.
post #6288 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

That is false. I owned the ST60 for 3 weeks. I owned the VT60 for a full week. I have owned the F8500 for 2 days now. smile.gif

Considering that I owned the Panasonic panels for a total of one month, I felt that I had enough to go on that I could judge by what I was seeing. And the only reason I owned those panels that long was because I was allowing my opinion to be swayed by what I was reading on this forum. Everyone said the ST60/VT60 were the best panels in the world, so I kept tweaking and tweaking them and wondering why I wasn't liking it that much.

Why are people doubting this guy because his opinion of the benefits of this tv over the Panny's is a bit stronger than most have reported? What do you think he's trying to accomplish by falsifying his report on his experience with all 3 tvs? To what end? I just think we should take all reviews on here with a grain of salt and the understanding that everyone's mileage may vary. But when we start to treat commentator like shills, people will be to afraid to comment.
post #6289 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by cockatiel View Post

Thanks for the great feedback. A few questions!

1) did you have the latest firmware? (Some feel some detail was lost with it)

2) was any of your viewing (for example Avatar) in 3d?

3) with your htpc, any line bleed?

4) with your htpc, any mouse lag? Did you have to use any of the lag-reducing tricks? (Like PC labelling)

5) did you use different day and night settings?

Thanks again for the very detailed post!

1) No. I read on this forum that the latest update caused problems with detail so I haven't downloaded that yet. I LOVE the detail on the F8500 so am waiting to upload firmware until someone says that has been resolved and the detail is back.

2) Yes, I watched Avatar in 3D. It was pretty good, but I'm not into 3D, it gives me headaches. So I only watched a few scenes. Overall, it was pretty good though and didn't give me a headache. Avatar looks pretty impressive in 3D for sure, though.

3) Nope. It looks nice and crisp. Better than the LCD on my Asus G75VW and my girlfriend's Powerbook.

4) No, not really, but I use a Gyration mouse so it has a little bit of wireless lag no matter what. But no, I didn't really notice any. And when I played FarCry and Skyrim, they looked gorgeous and there was no noticeable lag. I also tried Madden on my XBOX 360 and had no issues.

5) No. I'm using one setting and it works great for both. That's really what I noticed right off the bat. The F8500 is bright enough to use in my open living room with glass walls, but at night it doesn't burn a hole in my eyeballs. It's really nice. I have the auto-contrast and all other processing options turned off. I set cell brightness to 16, I think.

I should take some photos and post them. I've been very impressed with the F8500's performance. Enough so that I signed up for an account here and went from lurking to posting. I'm tired of reading all the rave reviews about the VT60. I think people are getting too worked up about graphs, and some people are going to end up doing what I did and buy the wrong TV and try to justify it because of the stuff they read here. Go by your eyeballs. The F8500 is clearly the better performer in that regard.
post #6290 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Why are people doubting this guy because his opinion of the benefits of this tv over the Panny's is a bit stronger than most have reported? What do you think he's trying to accomplish by falsifying his report on his experience with all 3 tvs? To what end? I just think we should take all reviews on here with a grain of salt and the understanding that everyone's mileage may vary. But when we start to treat commentator like shills, people will be to afraid to comment.
+1 He is a new guy though so that makes people suspicious. Im sure you can understand that.
post #6291 of 11459
fair enough Bond. I loved your work in Thunderball.
post #6292 of 11459
Well, I have a 64F8500 getting delivered next week so I get to see what it's all about.

Even though I do mostly dark room viewing, the Samsung plasmas have certain characteristics I believe that I prefer over the Panasonics...even though the Panasonics have slightly better blacks. I'm basing this on my experience with an F5300 and ST30...these characteristics appear to be the same in the F8500 and VT60.

If for some reason I'm not happy, it will go back and I will call it a day with the VT60. I'll post some detailed feedback once I get the set in gear and have some time with it.
post #6293 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

1) No. I read on this forum that the latest update caused problems with detail so I haven't downloaded that yet. I LOVE the detail on the F8500 so am waiting to upload firmware until someone says that has been resolved and the detail is back.

2) Yes, I watched Avatar in 3D. It was pretty good, but I'm not into 3D, it gives me headaches. So I only watched a few scenes. Overall, it was pretty good though and didn't give me a headache. Avatar looks pretty impressive in 3D for sure, though.

3) Nope. It looks nice and crisp. Better than the LCD on my Asus G75VW and my girlfriend's Powerbook.

4) No, not really, but I use a Gyration mouse so it has a little bit of wireless lag no matter what. But no, I didn't really notice any. And when I played FarCry and Skyrim, they looked gorgeous and there was no noticeable lag. I also tried Madden on my XBOX 360 and had no issues.

5) No. I'm using one setting and it works great for both. That's really what I noticed right off the bat. The F8500 is bright enough to use in my open living room with glass walls, but at night it doesn't burn a hole in my eyeballs. It's really nice. I have the auto-contrast and all other processing options turned off. I set cell brightness to 16, I think.

I should take some photos and post them. I've been very impressed with the F8500's performance. Enough so that I signed up for an account here and went from lurking to posting. I'm tired of reading all the rave reviews about the VT60. I think people are getting too worked up about graphs, and some people are going to end up doing what I did and buy the wrong TV and try to justify it because of the stuff they read here. Go by your eyeballs. The F8500 is clearly the better performer in that regard.

OK. I've been asking around a bit regarding this topic but it is because I'm getting close to delivery time for my F8000 and I'd prefer to go F8500.. I am coming from an ST60 that had severe IR. Given that you played some Farcry and Madden which both have HUDs...did you notice any IR on your F8500?
post #6294 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Why are people doubting this guy because his opinion of the benefits of this tv over the Panny's is a bit stronger than most have reported? What do you think he's trying to accomplish by falsifying his report on his experience with all 3 tvs? To what end? I just think we should take all reviews on here with a grain of salt and the understanding that everyone's mileage may vary. But when we start to treat commentator like shills, people will be to afraid to comment.

It always happens, I agree all reviews should be taken with a grain of salt. It happens often, but isntead of calling into quesiton the persons report, more questions should be asked to satisy ones curiosity or doubt......We have had a number of verly positive reviews here as well as totally negative ones....Happens with all TVs and as you said YMMV to what your personal experience may be with any said set......
post #6295 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

fair enough Bond. I loved your work in Thunderball.
biggrin.gif
post #6296 of 11459
Hope it works out for you David will be interested to hear your thoughts especially after chad works on it with his meter "thing"
post #6297 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Hope it works out for you David will be interested to here your thoughts especially after chad works on it with his meter "thing"
lol
post #6298 of 11459
Thanks, Chunon. I talked to Chad yesterday about it and had a great, interesting conversation. I'm planning on having him also do my audio next time out so should be nice audio and video "upgrade" all the way around.
post #6299 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Anyone that makes the kind of over the top comments you are making is in IMO exaggerating to make a point ill leave you to your opinions enjoy your new set

Yeah, I'll admit they're over the top. That's exactly how I felt. I wasn't expecting much of a difference. In fact, after viewing the F8500 in the Video Only, it seemed too contrasty and like it had less detail. I was expecting to have to return it and even asked my sales dude if I could return it before buying it. He just rolled his eyes and said, yeah that's our policy, and said they'd probably start charging me extra for all the deliveries. LOL. Then I got into my home and I won't exchange it, because I LOVE this TV.

I know I'm exaggerating slightly because I was THAT impressed by the F8500 after living with the Panasonics for a month. My girlfriend was just as enthusiastic as I was. I have never in my life heard my girlfriend beg me to watch anything and actually try to fight me for the HTPC remote. It was hilarious. She was all about watching Disney! And she dropped at least two curse words, which was hilarious if you actually knew her. If you think I'm exaggerating or acting hysterical, you should see my girlfriend. She actually texted me at work today to ask if we could go buy the Gremlins BluRay after work and watch it for date night tonight. We normally go see live theater or hit our favorite restaurant (El Gaucho in Seattle, the best steak on the West Coast - another true exaggeration). She HATES television. So imagine my surprise that she wants to spend our Friday evening watching a movie. That's saying something.

But hey, whatever. You want to blow me off because I like my TV that much, that's cool and I understand. I'd probably do the same. I'm just THAT happy with my purchase after feeling so frustrated with the ST60 and the VT60. And yes, I do think it stands out that much.

I think it stands out that much though because I have a TON of light in my living space. Like I said, I have two full walls of glass in my living room with big open decks, and a big open living space. So there is a ton of light. Oh, and we also have 5 skylights in the living room / kitchen area. So lots and lots of light. The Panasonics just can't deal with my living space. You can barely see anything on screen unless it's night time. The Samsung is totally visible and looks the same during the daytime that the Panasonic looked at night. So that was a big deal to me. Especially after thinking I'd have to buy an LED because both the Kuro and ST60/VT60 just couldn't handle my living room.

Oh, and to respond to your other question, I group the ST60 and VT60 because IMHO, there was no noticeable difference in picture quality between the two. They looked exactly the same to me.

Anyway... sorry for blasting this thread. I'm just enthusiastic. I'll stop spamming the thread now. if anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask. I spent a lot of time with the ST60 and VT60 and can answer questions about those as well.
post #6300 of 11459
To each his own in the end
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