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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 215

post #6421 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Exactly, I simply raised questions as to why the new owner was lumping the ST and VT together when running through all these comparisons (and called into question the claims of pro calibration for a brand new panel), and this is all it takes to be on the receiving end of you-know-who's witch hunt again (and get labeled as an ignorant by his sidekick). Nowhere did I berate their precious.

The thread subject is titled, and I quote, "Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread." Nowhere is it stated this thread is relegated to only owners or those intending to purchase.

I lumped them together because they look exactly the same, picture-wise.

This is the part where some Panasonic calibrator pulls out a bunch of graphs and color gamut charts, sneering and mocking my ignorance:
"Dude, you obviously never owned those panels because if you had, you would totally know that the green spectrum on the VT60 is like 0.04% higher than the green pixel backlight factor on the ST60, which totally lacks the CCFL lamp aberration factor present in the Samsung light accelerator engine. Gaaaaawwwwd. And of course you would have noticed that the sub-pixel regeneration factor of the AR filter is like 10% lower on the ST60, which totally causes the panel to be at least 15FL lower on Tuesdays, if you don't properly calibrate it. Also, check out the yellow sub-pixel on the Quattron sub-panel which obviously causes the photons to lose about 15% of their wavelength capacity, which means browns and turquoises would show 30% more mosquito effect during low-light viewing. Jesus, it's so obvious you never owned these TVs because if you had, you would never be able to watch Dallas without getting permanent IR in your retinas, and let's face it, Dallas is the best show EVAR. Well, after Star Trek of course. I mean, Star Trek The Next Generation because obviously Picard is so much more convincing than Kirk ever was. Geeeeez, you're so obviously lying to everyone."

Oh and to anyone who is actually "normal", take my word for it - there is ZERO difference between the ST60 and VT60 (and ZT60) in actual normal viewing. Zero. In fact, when I got the VT60 into my living room, my girlfriend was like, "I thought you were taking that back." I had to explain it was a different model and she said, "Looks the same to me." Yep. Looks the same to me, too.

But that's probably because I didn't bust out my colorimeter and spectrographimeter and measure the sub-pixel light aberration factor which totally would have proved me wrong. GAWD. I totally should have kept that Krell amplifier too. Obviously, my ears and eyes totally suck. If I had the sensory godliness of some people here, I would have totally heard the "added warmth and clarity" of my Krell amplifier while totally enjoying the eye-searing brightness of the dimmest television I've ever owned. I obviously suck at life and am totally lying about everything I saw.
post #6422 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 
Exactly, I simply raised questions as to why the new owner was lumping the ST and VT together when running through all these comparisons (and called into question the claims of pro calibration for a brand new panel), and this is all it takes to be on the receiving end of you-know-who's witch hunt again (and get labeled as an ignorant by his sidekick). Nowhere did I berate their precious.

The thread subject is titled, and I quote, "Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread." Nowhere is it stated this thread is relegated to only owners or those intending to purchase.
Ken does not want non-owners to post in a owner thread. He feels strongly about that. As much as i like Ken that is not how we do things here at AVS...
post #6423 of 11459
Well, I know you're telling tall tales now because you haven't even *seen* a ZT60 in person unless you were at the shootout. I could easily tell from the shootout that it held its blacks best in ambient lighting among the 3 contenders (F8500 and VT60) without having to resort to not-so-clever calibrator speak to expound upon it.

Also, to say the ST60 is equivalent to the ZT60 is like me saying every Samsung plasma panel released this year looks just like the other, and only a geeky calibrator would ever say otherwise.
post #6424 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Some calibrators claimed that F8500 is sharper due to its brightness other say it is because of its contrast
How come they are not saying this is because of Samsung's video processing? Why the conflicting reports?

Here is what HDTVtest website say in their review of F8500
We’ve heard some online discussion where it’s claimed that the PS64F8500 has a “sharper” image than other plasma televisions. Given that basically every recent 1080p plasma display panel has been able to resolve at least full static detail from a 1920×1080 source (let’s ignore plasma-centric issues like gradation and dithering for a second), we’re not sure what the basis of these is, but we’d imagine that it has a lot to do with the F8500′s superior contrast performance, which could be said to make images appear perceptibly sharper.

Does it really matter?

Dude, go to a store. Take your favorite bluray with you. Ask to view the bluray on the ST60/VT60, and then view the same bluray on the F8500. You will notice that it is like going from watching a DVD to watching a bluray. Does it matter why? The simple fact is that the F8500 is way more detailed, and it is very noticeable.

You can see it really clearly on the Avatar Bluray, in the scene where the main character is flying around on the red and yellow dragon, and they're all fighting the helicopters. It's near the end of the film. Play that scene on the ST60/VT60 and then play it on the F8500. The difference is dramatic enough that it is literally like going from DVD to Bluray. The details on the dragons' wings, the details in the explosions, the expressions on the characters' faces. Details pop out everywhere on the F8500 that were just not there on the Panasonics. And seriously, if anyone thinks I'm making it up, just go do it for yourself. You can get Best Buy to let you bring in your own Bluray, they let me use mine. Even in a well-lit showroom, the difference is very clear and noticeable.
post #6425 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Thank you pie for your hard work on the calibration.
One question though: do you recommend the TV to be first broken in for at least 100 hours before trying your settings?
Would you recommend that?

You're welcome smile.gif
I asked the very same questions when I got my PDP - the first PDP I have owned.
There will probably be different views on this, but I really didn't 'break in' other then be careful with content. I just varied what I watched, black bars and all. You can safely watch a whole movie with bars, then full screen content and there won't be any lasting IR.
At night I'd run the scrolling field for 10-15 mins. Now only occasionally and I don't see any IR, or if I do, its very slight and goes away soon after.

I calibrated by eye straight away (I did not have the meter to begin with).

-Just go for it! You shouldn't harm anything with varied content IMO

Regards the cal, I advise you try my values then tweak from there. 10p may or may not work well for you. It's a crap shoot.
Edited by pieandchips - 5/18/13 at 11:11am
post #6426 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I really don't understand why the calibrators chose the VT/ZT over the F8500. I wonder if they only cared about the lowest blacks and highest contrast.

Yup, that's why and they pretty much acknowledged that even though the differences in black levels are so small. Interestingly, I think that most people upon seeing the 8500, will feel IT has more contrast than the VT/ZT. I'm one of those, The top end disparity is much greater than the disparity on the low end. So for most material, when there is a difference, your eye will tend to see the greater dynamic range of the 8500. But hey, we 'got to go by them #s'...just disregard what your eyes see. wink.gif

Oh wait, I forgot, "IMO". biggrin.gif

If you honestly believe this then the point of the shootout is beyond you.
post #6427 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

build date is on the serial numbr sticker back of tv... smile.gif

I received my 64" yesterday. No horizontal bands on any RGB/White/Grey slides. Manufacture date: March 2013.
post #6428 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I really don't understand why the calibrators chose the VT/ZT over the F8500. I wonder if they only cared about the lowest blacks and highest contrast.

Yup, that's why and they pretty much acknowledged that even though the differences in black levels are so small. Interestingly, I think that most people upon seeing the 8500, will feel IT has more contrast than the VT/ZT. I'm one of those, The top end disparity is much greater tshan the disparity on the low end. So for most material, when there is a difference, your eye will tend to see the greater dynamic range of the 8500. But hey, we 'got to go by them #s'...just disregard what your eyes see. wink.gif

Oh wait, I forgot, "IMO". biggrin.gif

If you honestly believe this then the point of the shootout is beyond you.

As I've said a number of times, I wanted to see if the ZT60 was better than the 8500. IMO, it wasn't. For me, that was the motivation for the shootout. If that differs from your 'point', then so be it.
It worked for me! :-)

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Edited by Ken Ross - 5/18/13 at 7:45pm
post #6429 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

I lumped them together because they look exactly the same, picture-wise.

This is the part where some Panasonic calibrator pulls out a bunch of graphs and color gamut charts, sneering and mocking my ignorance:
"Dude, you obviously never owned those panels because if you had, you would totally know that the green spectrum on the VT60 is like 0.04% higher than the green pixel backlight factor on the ST60, which totally lacks the CCFL lamp aberration factor present in the Samsung light accelerator engine. Gaaaaawwwwd. And of course you would have noticed that the sub-pixel regeneration factor of the AR filter is like 10% lower on the ST60, which totally causes the panel to be at least 15FL lower on Tuesdays, if you don't properly calibrate it. Also, check out the yellow sub-pixel on the Quattron sub-panel which obviously causes the photons to lose about 15% of their wavelength capacity, which means browns and turquoises would show 30% more mosquito effect during low-light viewing. Jesus, it's so obvious you never owned these TVs because if you had, you would never be able to watch Dallas without getting permanent IR in your retinas, and let's face it, Dallas is the best show EVAR. Well, after Star Trek of course. I mean, Star Trek The Next Generation because obviously Picard is so much more convincing than Kirk ever was. Geeeeez, you're so obviously lying to everyone."

Oh and to anyone who is actually "normal", take my word for it - there is ZERO difference between the ST60 and VT60 (and ZT60) in actual normal viewing. Zero. In fact, when I got the VT60 into my living room, my girlfriend was like, "I thought you were taking that back." I had to explain it was a different model and she said, "Looks the same to me." Yep. Looks the same to me, too.

But that's probably because I didn't bust out my colorimeter and spectrographimeter and measure the sub-pixel light aberration factor which totally would have proved me wrong. GAWD. I totally should have kept that Krell amplifier too. Obviously, my ears and eyes totally suck. If I had the sensory godliness of some people here, I would have totally heard the "added warmth and clarity" of my Krell amplifier while totally enjoying the eye-searing brightness of the dimmest television I've ever owned. I obviously suck at life and am totally lying about everything I saw.

I love this guy, sorry Vinnie
post #6430 of 11459
Don't apologize for your infatuation. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Ken does not want non-owners to post in a owner thread. He feels strongly about that. As much as i like Ken that is not how we do things here at AVS...
Unless those nonowner posts are positive/inquisitive. Anything that might be construed as a negative, and you might as well forgo your posting rights.
post #6431 of 11459
On a side note, the HTMag reviewer who attended the shootout on Saturday forgot to mention in his article that the Kuro he saw was 3 times blacker than a 111FD.

Outside of a slightly darker shade of black on some backgrounds, that Kuro demo disc was just about a wash between all the panels. Yes, it was slightly darker on the 500m, but the difference is like comparing .008fL to .007fL.

Although it wasn't really discussed, the 500m was clipping whites (this seems to have been a problem for the 9Gs) to the same degree as the Panasonic lcd they had. There was some weird color banding at one point with the VT/ZT on the day mode material, but that may have been a bug, because when they replayed it, the pink and green color bands disappeared. They were not present on the 500m and the F8500.

Slight differences between all models, but it was essentially as close as it's ever been and is only really noticeable when all the panels are next to each other. I had a feeling that if the ST had been in the shootout, it would have scored higher than the VT. Everyone that's reviewed that panel, sans David Katzmaier has them almost even in mll.
post #6432 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, I know you're telling tall tales now because you haven't even *seen* a ZT60 in person unless you were at the shootout. I can easily tell from the shootout that it held its blacks best in ambient lighting among the 3 contenders (F8500 and VT60) without not-so-clever calibrator speak.

Also, to say the ST60 is equivalent to the ZT60 is like me saying every Samsung panel released this year looks just like the other, and only a geeky calibrator would ever say otherwise.


OK, well, believe whatever you want to believe, I guess.

I actually had both the ST60 and VT60 in my own living room, and watched a ton of movies on both. Couldn't tell a difference between the two. Definitely not enough to justify any price difference. But I'm kinda growing tired of arguing with people who want to believe what some magazine tells them over what their own eyes tell them. What's the point? Dude, go spend the extra dough, what do I care?

If seeing some numbers on a piece of paper convinces you that the VT60 is worth that much more than the ST60, go buy it and be good with your choice. Sit at home and know that science geeks everywhere are doing jumping jacks because the graphs for the VT60 show a 0.5% improvement in red luminance or some other such nonsense. Never mind that your eyes will never see the difference. Spend the extra money, don't waste it on investments or something that might actually add to your quality of life.

As to the blacks, that's not really what I watch when I'm watching TV. I think the "blacks" argument has to be the most overrated nonsense in the TV market. It really really reminds me of THD in the amplifier/hi-fi market. People arguing over differences of 0.001% THD, when the human ear can't even distinguish between 1% and 6% THD.

When I watch the F8500 at home, it looks just as good, including the blacks. In fact, during the daytime, the F8500 literally destroys the ST60 and VT60 and it's not even close. Yeah, the blacks look great on the ST60. But who wants to look at a black screen? That's not what I'm paying for. I want to watch my football game, with a bunch of my buddies, at 1:00pm in my living room. My girlfriend doesn't want to sit in our basement and stare at a black screen either. She likes to watch Disney films and action flicks (which is actually pretty funny). In those movies, I see a lot less black, and a lot more bright colors, explosions, fire balls, Disney princesses whirling around dancing, etc, etc. For REAL MOVIES in a REAL LIVING ENVIRONMENT, the performance of the F8500 destroys the Panasonic panels. That is my actual hands-on real-world normal person experience.

For the life of me, I can't understand how the ST60 gets so much great press. CNet was raving about it being the best value ever, best picture they ever tested, all this nonsense. When I got it home and even after having it ISF calibrated and asking the guy to boost it as high as he possibly could, it was dim, lifeless, smeary, and about all it had going for it was good color accuracy. Yes, the colors looked great. But I think the F8500 actually looks better to my eyes. The colors look more realistic to me. They also somehow look more vivid, without looking neon. And when I boosted my ST60 to try to make it more vivid, it ended up looking like a neon sign and hurt my eyes. I can actually watch the F8500 in the middle of daytime and it looks fantastic. And it looks just as great at night. Even without being calibrated, and with only minor adjustments, it is hands down a better image TO ME.

And when it comes to video games, it's not even close. All these people talking about IR and input lag, I think that stuff is overrated. I love to play some Madden, FarCry, Skyrim, CoD, you name it. With Skyrim, the Panasonics looked washed out and dim. On the F8500 it was bright, vivid, and had beautiful interesting colors. It got me more into the game.

And I haven't even mentioned ABL. I think it's sad that the so-called "experts" have all tried to downplay the ABL problem on the Panasonics. I'm a normal guy and couldn't figure out how to "fix" the ABL. Professional calibrators are laughing at me here, saying it was my fault that the ABL ruined that TV for me. Well ya know what? I expect when I pay $3500 for a TV that I shouldn't have to hire a professional calibrator and do all this research just to have a watchable TV.

Most of all, I would love to get all these "experts" into a room with some real-life gamers and watch all of their reaction when I put the VT60 and F8500 side by side and play Skyrim and FarCry on both. Then you try to tell me the VT60 can get as bright, has anywhere near the detail, and that ABL is not a problem. FarCry looks like straight-up garbage on the Panasonics. GARBAGE. It is almost unplayable. All the sky scenes, any scene with more than 20% white in it, just gets crushed to the point that it looks like someone put a beige curtain over the TV. The F8500 doesn't have that problem. The skies in FarCry, the water scenes, any scene with dynamic colors just looks amazing, has excellent contrast, and really comes to life.

The only way I can describe it is like someone has applied a dimming sepia filter to the Panasonics when you're gaming. It is really really noticeable on games. Again, get a room full of gamers to look at both and I think you'd have a unanimous agreement with what I'm saying. I don't care what the calibrators say about it because they aren't paying for my television. And the calibrator that I hired couldn't fix it, and never got my TV looking good enough to be acceptable to me.

I haven't even hired a calibrator for the F8500 and it looks awesome. It's a joy to play games on it. I love watching cartoons and action flicks on it. I even enjoy using it as my PC monitor. Football games look sweet, where the VT60 was so dim I couldn't even watch football on it during the day, could barely see anything on the screen.

But I'm getting bored with all this. People are going to believe what they want and have already made up their minds.

I read that shootout and it confirmed for me what I already suspected. Calibrators and "normal people" will never agree on what makes a good TV. The F8500 won hands-down with regular people. I saw the ratings. Those people saw the same thing I do - much better color, clarity, detail and especially brightness on the F8500. While the calibrators all said the VT60 has better blacks, and some even argued it had better color. Their method of measuring color is obviously different than us "normal people." And I'll just leave it at that, because frankly, this whole thing is almost as boring as arguing amplifiers with hi-fi geeks. You can sit there and argue the laws of physics all day long, and they're still going to cling to their vacuum tubes. Let the nerds believe what they want.

I have better things to do now that I have a TV I actually like. As a matter of fact, I need to go buy a lawn mower today and get my lawn mowed. I'm debating between a Toro and a Honda. And ya know what's so hilarious? Same thing as these TV sets. It's like a religious war. So wish me luck because my lawn is outta control!!!
post #6433 of 11459
Just made the purchase for a F8500. Thanks to Pie for the settings (plugged them in at Best Buy to compare with the VT60 right next to it) , Geez for his insights and comparison to the ST60/VT60, and Ken for his early reports that original brought this set to my attention. Delivery is on Friday!
post #6434 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Does it really matter?

Dude, go to a store. Take your favorite bluray with you. Ask to view the bluray on the ST60/VT60, and then view the same bluray on the F8500. You will notice that it is like going from watching a DVD to watching a bluray. Does it matter why? The simple fact is that the F8500 is way more detailed, and it is very noticeable.

You can see it really clearly on the Avatar Bluray, in the scene where the main character is flying around on the red and yellow dragon, and they're all fighting the helicopters. It's near the end of the film. Play that scene on the ST60/VT60 and then play it on the F8500. The difference is dramatic enough that it is literally like going from DVD to Bluray. The details on the dragons' wings, the details in the explosions, the expressions on the characters' faces. Details pop out everywhere on the F8500 that were just not there on the Panasonics. And seriously, if anyone thinks I'm making it up, just go do it for yourself. You can get Best Buy to let you bring in your own Bluray, they let me use mine. Even in a well-lit showroom, the difference is very clear and noticeable.

I dont need to do that or compare, the F8500 has been in my shortlist right from the begining. Panasonic TVs are out of the question.
I just raised this point because I just wanted to show that F8500 is not sharper bec of its brightness. From what ? No idea but as you said it doesnt matter as long as we love that sharpness and clarity.
post #6435 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

A quick question. Are you guys still getting the error message re the camera when the camera is tucked in and the TV is first turned on?

Yep! Even if you turn off all the associated apps...like motion control, you still get the message.
post #6436 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks Air & Dan. So now the question is with the camera out, does it at times pick up normal room movement as an attempt to do a 'gesture'? I would think that might be even more annoying if true. At least with the message you get with the camera tucked in, you hit "OK" and you're done. If movement is misinterpreted with the camera out, that could provide multiple errors.
I just turn motion control off (in the Smart Features).
post #6437 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

You're welcome smile.gif
I asked the very same questions when I got my PDP - the first PDP I have owned.
There will probably be different views on this, but I really didn't 'break in' other then be careful with content. I just varied what I watched, black bars and all. You can safely watch a whole movie with bars, then full screen content and there won't be any lasting IR.
At night I'd run the scrolling field for 10-15 mins. Now only occasionally and I don't see any IR, or if I do, its very slight and goes away soon after.

I calibrated by eye straight away (I did not have the meter to begin with).

-Just go for it! You shouldn't harm anything with varied content IMO

Regards the cal, I advise you try my values then tweak from there. 10p may or may not work well for you. It's a crap shoot.

Thank you for the advise. I'm asking you this because I read that both contrast and brightness should be lowered to below 50 in the first 100 hours. In the shootout even the calibrators suggested 300 hours.
I know this is ideal for preparing the panel for calibration but will it apply to me as well if I just want to apply someone else's settings?
post #6438 of 11459
It would take some patience running for 300 hours at 50 contrast! wink.gif
post #6439 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

yes, but not an error message. it basically says "hey consumer how in the world are you going to wave your hands at me if I can't see you.(hand gestures) so since it's undefeatable at this time, I just leave it engaged.

Thanks Air & Dan. So now the question is with the camera out, does it at times pick up normal room movement as an attempt to do a 'gesture'? I would think that might be even more annoying if true. At least with the message you get with the camera tucked in, you hit "OK" and you're done. If movement is misinterpreted with the camera out, that could provide multiple errors.
Killing a message that's irritating should be a trivial software change. If you assume that hand control is optional, then if the option is "I don't want hand control." the warning shouldn't be coming up.

If leaving the camera closed is the only way to turn off hand control, the user should be able to realize that waving his arm around won't work if he can't see the camera. My preference is to turn off both voice and hand control in the setup menus, and have the logic for warnings follow from those settings.

I hope you owner's send Samsung a strong message so that if my display dies, these little bugs will already be dealt with. biggrin.gif
post #6440 of 11459
You didn't even read my last post (the declaration I made was based on what my eyes witnessed) but I get it, "Geezus." Every con that the Samsung has is "overrated" and "nonsense," while every con exhibited by the Panasonic is the worst thing a videophile could ever be subjected to. BTW, if manufacturers thought deep black levels weren't worth achieving for optimum PQ, they wouldn't have demonstrations alongside a five-year old Kuro, nor would the panel be referenced nearly as much as it has by manufacturers, reviewers, calibrators, and videophile enthusiasts alike. Depending on the viewing environment and the content, the deeper blacks *can* be appreciated by the human eye, unlike that nonequivalent metaphor regarding audio and minuscule total harmonic distortion distinctions.
post #6441 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Exactly, I simply raised questions as to why the new owner was lumping the ST and VT together when running through all these comparisons (and called into question the claims of pro calibration for a brand new panel), and this is all it takes to be on the receiving end of you-know-who's witch hunt again (and get labeled as an ignorant by his sidekick). Nowhere did I berate their precious.

The thread subject is titled, and I quote, "Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread." Nowhere is it stated this thread is relegated to only owners or those intending to purchase.

There is nothing wrong with discussing the 8500. However, for the select few that, with almost every post, attacks or calls in to question every poster that doesn't bow at the altar of your 'precious', Panasonic, does nothing but derail the thread.

You have every right to attack every product in every thread for which you have no interest in buying. I guess it's a hobby for some. Whatever floats your boat.



Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #6442 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Samsung hasn't promoted it recently but beginning in 2011 (D8000) they have been using a local contrast enhancement (LCE) algorithm in their top models. This is probably the source of the perceptual difference in sharpness compared to other 1080p panels. This algorithm works on local groups of pixels, ~100x100 for the D8000, and is most evident when there are brighter objects against more uniform contrast scenes. It can appear to "lift" the objects out of the background in a pseudo-3D effect. Anyone who has used a darblet knows what this looks like, and Samsung panels make use of the same principle although the darblet works on a pixel by pixel basis to adjust local luminance.

LCE in Samsung plasmas which employ it can only be disabled via special commands in the service menu which is unfortunate because then you could compare on/off images for various material and see the difference. I have been able to do this on my D8000 as well as turn the LCE gain up and down to find a nice operating point.

Well that's interesting. Do you know if they juice their BD players in a similar way? I wrote this about a week ago concerning the Samsung F5900 vs the Sony S5100 and my PC:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463952/anyone-have-feedback-on-the-samsung-bd-f5900#post_23307704

Partial quote:

I'm finding that compared to the Sony S5100 and my PC, which look essentially identical on my Panasonic P50ST60, the F5900 makes the TV (calibrated with meter and Calman 5) look like it's been switched to a slightly jacked-up mode (which it hasn't been), or that some sort of "Reality Creation" has been switched on, to use a Sony TV term.
...
A couple of examples where the F5900 "enhancement" is plainly evident include the beginning of Chapter 4 of Star Trek (2009), which starts out on a nebula and star field and pans to Nero's ship, and many of the space scenes in Tree of Life. The F5900 seems to be more contrasty, with blacker blacks and brighter stars, but less detail in things like wisps of nebula gas and smoke. I've tried playing AVS709HD test patterns such as the clipping patterns and can't see a difference there.
post #6443 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Maybe I'm a Samsung plant too but shame on Samsung for not delivering their TV to their plant in time biggrin.gif

Seems we have lots of 'plants' here Hali. Still waiting for my check from Samsung. Get yours yet? ;-)

AVS can be an utterly amazing place at times. There's no room for any love of the 8500 here by the Panny worshippers. Gotta love their 'tolerance'.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #6444 of 11459
I enjoy your enthusiasm for the F8500, but can you express that enthusiasm without the gross exaggeration? Your original post of joy was full of "kicking to the curb" overkill comments. I'm sure that you're seeing more detail with the F8500. That's good. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Dude, go to a store. Take your favorite bluray with you. Ask to view the bluray on the ST60/VT60, and then view the same bluray on the F8500. You will notice that it is like going from watching a DVD to watching a bluray.
post #6445 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

There is nothing wrong with discussing the 8500. However, for the select few that, with almost every post, attacks or calls in to question every poster that doesn't bow at the altar of your 'precious', Panasonic, does nothing but derail the thread.
If that's how you interpret my recent posts in this thread, then yes, I'd say Samsung should be sending you a check if they haven't already.
post #6446 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I enjoy your enthusiasm for the F8500, but can you express that enthusiasm without the gross exaggeration? Your original post of joy was full of "kicking to the curb" overkill comments. I'm sure that you're seeing more detail with the F8500. That's good. smile.gif
If the difference was so extreme, you'd think at least the shootout attendees would have raised this issue and given the F8500 an even greater lead in the voting. Guess they're on Panasonic's payroll.rolleyes.gif
post #6447 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Seems we have lots of 'plants' here Hali. Still waiting for my check from Samsung. Get yours yet? ;-)

AVS can be an utterly amazing place at times. There's no room for any love of the 8500 here by the Panny worshippers. Gotta love their 'tolerance'.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I got my check biggrin.gif although it the name was wrong on it, so Im waiting on a replacement wink.gif .....


As always good to see that wheels havent fallen off the bus rolleyes.gif .....

If people stopped replying to the posts, they might happen less often and with the way this thread moves, they would for sure fall off really quickly....I have no issues with critiques, the more the merrier, especially from owners...A well balanced thread where all of the problems are known discussed and troubleshooted is the only way they might get fixed....If all that happened was patting on the back things would be pretty boring......
post #6448 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks Air & Dan. So now the question is with the camera out, does it at times pick up normal room movement as an attempt to do a 'gesture'? I would think that might be even more annoying if true. At least with the message you get with the camera tucked in, you hit "OK" and you're done. If movement is misinterpreted with the camera out, that could provide multiple errors.
I just turn motion control off (in the Smart Features).
That's what I was thinking about. Motion control is OFF, and the display feels it needs to warn you that the camera isn't deployed. Not a very "smart" solution. It would drive me nuts.
post #6449 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

Ken does not want non-owners to post in a owner thread. He feels strongly about that. As much as i like Ken that is not how we do things here at AVS...

Actually it's not a true owner's thread 8mile, so I have no problem with non-owners posting. I know that even in owner's threads, non-owners post. My issue is with the usual suspects that come here for no other reason than to deride those that favor the thread's subject product. Calling them 'plants' 'suspicious', etc., it's just amazing. God forbid you show enthusiasm! It's been going on as long as I've been on AVS. But as other long term posters have noted, it's been getting worse over time.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
post #6450 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

That's what I was thinking about. Motion control is OFF, and the display feels it needs to warn you that the camera isn't deployed. Not a very "smart" solution. It would drive me nuts.

It almost sounds like its doing the opposite of what it should do, its checking when the camera is "away" and not checking when the camera is "deployed"....I would think this could be fixed easily, BUT people would need to call and write Samsung aboout it since just writing about it on a forum doesnt do much good wink.gif
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