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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 220

post #6571 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohtly View Post

I tried to have BB price match a cheaper east cost on-line store but since they were not an "authorized" dealer BB said nope. But... starting yesterday thru next Saturday the 25th if you buy any of the Samsung Smart HDTV's they have a Samsung promo and giving you a choice of a Samsung sound bar, 27" LED or a wireless audio dock($299 retail for either). I didn't need any of those so I asked them to apply the $299 as a "price-match reduction" and bingo ! That at least covered the outrageous Calif. sales tax. :-0

Good idea to get the price reduction in lieu of the freebie, thanks.
post #6572 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

So where's day 2 of the shootout? I know the F8500 won so they want to delay posting it, but still. I would like to see day 2 as I was working when the shootout was live.

according to Robert it will be posted on their youtube channel next week.
post #6573 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

according to Robert it will be posted on their youtube channel next week.

OK thanks, have you checked your pm box? wink.gif
post #6574 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Yes, I have seen that "director's intent" statement several times. If there is one thing that is truly unknowable it is a person's intent.

It may be possible to reproduce an image close to what the director saw on the equipment of the time that it was released. But, since movies have been produced and directed since the 1880s with evolving media, equipment, and processing standards that is a remarkable spectrum.

Calibrating an F8500 to produce a picture closest to the average age of movies watched seems most true to the stated goal. Sets calibrated to the current standard only produce a picture seen by directors in recent years. Not calibrating to the current standards seems a waste of technology and money spent on the F8500. An interesting dilemma, indeed.

Do professional calibrators even ask what standard the owner wants the set calibrated to or do they always use the current standards?

Blu-rays and HD content are generally mastered to rec 709. That should be the goal/standard for a display. That is what a professional calibrator strives for with a display. That is the true "intent" for displays.
Since my display is HD it was calibrated to Rec. 709. Click here for more information.

It's nothing to brag about. wink.gif
post #6575 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by david3772 View Post

Good idea to get the price reduction in lieu of the freebie, thanks.

I know we're not supposed to talk street pricing but I couldn't hold back my excitement on getting BB to lower price rather than get a freebie I don't need.
post #6576 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

That's a source difference. What about a fixed source, the same Blu-ray disk for instance, played on displays calibrated by the same professional calibrator. As soon as you move away from that standard, too many variables are added. The interesting thing about sharpness and the F8500 is the new sub pixel structure. There seems to be a good possibility that verifiable differences in sharpness are possible.

The thing that makes "sharpness" discussions at AVS difficult is that you never know for sure that the people reporting have their display setup correctly. All it takes is for overscan to be on and sharpness is changed. It's similar with IR. Very few people who report IR think to indicate exactly how they are seeing it - slides or programming.

Well as an example, seeing a calibrated VT50 sitting alongside a calibrated 8500 (both by Kevin Miller), Robert, D-Nice and I all agreed the 8500 was sharper playing the same TDK content. It was hard to miss. We watched the picture in motion as well as still frame and frame by frame advance. This takes out all the variables of source, calibrator, environment and perception. Here were 3 people all seeing the same thing. It's real. wink.gif

Although in other environments where panels were not calibrated, I've seen the VT60 & 8500 playing the same content and showing the same differences as above (regardless of settings on both). The sharpness delta stays pretty much the same in favor of the 8500. I wouldn't pretend to know why (pixel structure, processing etc), but it is what it is.
post #6577 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Why would it matter if I'm new? What would you be suspicious of?

I

It actually reminds me of the time I ignored my electrical engineer father and bought a $10k Krell amplifier because some stereo magazine said it had "unmatched warmth and clarity." I got it home and it didn't sound any different than an old Yamaha receiver with my Focal Grande Utopia speakers. My dad kept telling me that amplifiers can only introduce more or less distortion per watt, and that neither cables nor amplifiers could violate the laws of physics and magically add "warmth" or "clarity" to the signal. As he said, a watt is a watt, until you introduce distortion. So I followed his advice and returned the Krell and bought a Crown Audio amplifier for $500 from Guitar Center that actually sounded better than the Krell to my ears (according to dad, because it was producing greater wattage with less distortion). And ya know what happened when I brought over a few audiophiles and did blind tests? They all picked the Crown. Then argued that the Krell was vastly superior because of its better capacitors, even after I explained they had picked the Crown PA amplifier when blindfolded.

.



Wait...you have 180 000 dollar speakers and went out and bought a 500 dollar amp after you returned a 10k amp.? first you had a Yamaha amp?
I,m sorry , your story really doesn't make sense. Maybe it's just me...
Edited by ppipro - 5/19/13 at 6:59pm
post #6578 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

My guests/relatives want to see movement and colors. Only a fool would pay for a professional calibration to impress that lot. eek.gif
lol
post #6579 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post

Not even one person that has been over my house and has watched tv, has ever complimented the PQ of my vt50. The few that I've asked
have replied "eh it's ok" I've seen better".. mad.gif

You've got some rude guests even if they were being honest, don't invite them back. biggrin.gif

Hey, sounds like some of them may post here on certain threads! wink.gif
post #6580 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

...Robert, D-Nice and I all agreed the 8500 was sharper playing the same TDK content...

Is this nice material available for download anywhere?
Please and thank you smile.gif
post #6581 of 11461
The Dark Knight, you can get it anywhere Blu-rays are sold. wink.gif
post #6582 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRWalker View Post

Yes, I have seen that "director's intent" statement several times. If there is one thing that is truly unknowable it is a person's intent.

It may be possible to reproduce an image close to what the director saw on the equipment of the time that it was released. But, since movies have been produced and directed since the 1880s with evolving media, equipment, and processing standards that is a remarkable spectrum.

Calibrating an F8500 to produce a picture closest to the average age of movies watched seems most true to the stated goal. Sets calibrated to the current standard only produce a picture seen by directors in recent years. Not calibrating to the current standards seems a waste of technology and money spent on the F8500. An interesting dilemma, indeed.

Do professional calibrators even ask what standard the owner wants the set calibrated to or do they always use the current standards?

At the risk of being accused of saying this too often, was it the director's intent for us to see a movie in a theater where the black levels are almost always at the level of a 2008 vintage plasma? Or was it the director's intent for us to see a bright scene dimmed by the impact of the display's ABL? We always want to discuss things like color accuracy, conformance to Rec709 and general calibration issues, but sometimes I think more important aspects of PQ are left off the table in some very common viewing venues.

The fact is, as poor as black levels are in the vast majority of theaters, when was the last time you heard someone leave a theater saying "You know, I really couldn't enjoy that movie because of those lousy black levels"? In fact, for those that get really anal about that last ounce of MLL on AVS, I wonder how many of them are consciously bothered by movie theater presentations and find it seriously detracts from their enjoyment. We went to see Star Trek this weekend and really enjoyed it. Of course I couldn't help but notice the star fields were not nearly as black as my last several displays, but I also thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

It's amazing what happens when we actually focus on content. smile.gif
post #6583 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppipro View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

Why would it matter if I'm new? What would you be suspicious of?

I

It actually reminds me of the time I ignored my electrical engineer father and bought a $10k Krell amplifier because some stereo magazine said it had "unmatched warmth and clarity." I got it home and it didn't sound any different than an old Yamaha receiver with my Focal Grande Utopia speakers. My dad kept telling me that amplifiers can only introduce more or less distortion per watt, and that neither cables nor amplifiers could violate the laws of physics and magically add "warmth" or "clarity" to the signal. As he said, a watt is a watt, until you introduce distortion. So I followed his advice and returned the Krell and bought a Crown Audio amplifier for $500 from Guitar Center that actually sounded better than the Krell to my ears (according to dad, because it was producing greater wattage with less distortion). And ya know what happened when I brought over a few audiophiles and did blind tests? They all picked the Crown. Then argued that the Krell was vastly superior because of its better capacitors, even after I explained they had picked the Crown PA amplifier when blindfolded.

.



Wait...you have 180 000 dollar speakers and went out and bought a 500 dollar amp after you returned a 10k amp.? first you had a Yamaha amp?
I,m sorry , your story really doesn't make sense. Maybe it's just me...

After reading his very first post, I've only seen geez's subsequent posts as quoted in replies to him, which I normally just breeze past, but I'm glad I read this one. It's not often that you read that blind tests were conducted with the subjects literally blindfolded. That's gold, Jerry. Gold!
post #6584 of 11461
Oh oops lol, sorry. redface.gif

I thought this was TDK as in the audio manufacturer, who had maybe produced some nice reference video.
-Back to regular viewing...


*slouches off*
post #6585 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Is this nice material available for download anywhere?
Please and thank you smile.gif

Sorry, TDK is shorthand for the The Dark Knight. "Available at fine stores near you". wink.gif

Oops, Vinnie beat me to it.
post #6586 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

At the risk of being accused of saying this too often, was it the director's intent for us to see a movie in a theater where the black levels are almost always at the level of a 2008 vintage plasma? Or was it the director's intent for us to see a bright scene dimmed by the impact of the display's ABL? We always want to discuss things like color accuracy, conformance to Rec709 and general calibration issues, but sometimes I think more important aspects of PQ are left off the table in some very common viewing venues.

The fact is, as poor as black levels are in the vast majority of theaters, when was the last time you heard someone leave a theater saying "You know, I really couldn't enjoy that movie because of those lousy black levels"? In fact, for those that get really anal about that last ounce of MLL on AVS, I wonder how many of them are consciously bothered by movie theater presentations and find it seriously detracts from their enjoyment. We went to see Star Trek this weekend and really enjoyed it. Of course I couldn't help but notice the star fields were not nearly as black as my last several displays, but I also thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

It's amazing what happens when we actually focus on content. smile.gif

Good point, Ken. It always seems at home we're trying to reach video nirvana, but forget too often about the content. I cannot help but cringe in some of those Blu-ray software forums where so many people buy movies they dislike only because they are reference quality and spend more time pixel peeping at 300% zoomed in screenshots looking for a missing piece of film grain or a DNR artifact.
post #6587 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Good point, Ken. It always seems at home we're trying to reach video nirvana, but forget too often about the content. I cannot help but cringe in some of those Blu-ray software forums where so many people buy movies they dislike only because they are reference quality and spend more time pixel peeping at 300% zoomed in screenshots looking for a missing piece of film grain or a DNR artifact.

Yup. Dave it reminds me of when HD was new and my son would always say "Dad, you'll watch anything if it's in HD". He was absolutely right. I didn't care about content, I was just mesmerized with those pretty pictures.

I like to think I've grown up a bit....just a bit. biggrin.gif
post #6588 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

After reading his very first post, I've only seen geez's subsequent posts as quoted in replies to him, which I normally just breeze past, but I'm glad I read this one. It's not often that you read that blind tests were conducted with the subjects literally blindfolded. That's gold, Jerry. Gold!
lol, the credibility factor continues to slide. I just can't be bothered to read the avalanches of verbal diarrhea. Anyone that desperate to make a point must not be as sure of their claims as they're insinuating.
post #6589 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Well as an example, seeing a calibrated VT50 sitting alongside a calibrated 8500 (both by Kevin Miller), Robert, D-Nice and I all agreed the 8500 was sharper playing the same TDK content. It was hard to miss. We watched the picture in motion as well as still frame and frame by frame advance. This takes out all the variables of source, calibrator, environment and perception. Here were 3 people all seeing the same thing. It's real. wink.gif
.
That's the kind of situation that makes sense to me. I'm betting on pixel structure and the chemical makeup of the phosphors. Keep in mind that I've bet on the lottery knowing the odds against, but that was a couple of years ago. eek.gif
post #6590 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I wonder how many of them are consciously bothered by movie theater presentations and find it seriously detracts from their enjoyment. We went to see Star Trek this weekend and really enjoyed it. Of course I couldn't help but notice the star fields were not nearly as black as my last several displays, but I also thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

It's amazing what happens when we actually focus on content. smile.gif
I've been to one movie in the past five and a half years. My wife made me go. I didn't think about the factors important to a good calibration at all. I don't watching my sister in law's Sony LCD either. Once the show starts I'm in the movie unless it's a really bad movie.

What a bad theater or a bad TV can do is ruin a movie if the faces are green and the grass is florescent. tongue.gif

Lucas hates bad movie houses. wink.gif
post #6591 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post


Good point, Ken. It always seems at home we're trying to reach video nirvana, but forget too often about the content. I cannot help but cringe in some of those Blu-ray software forums where so many people buy movies they dislike only because they are reference quality and spend more time pixel peeping at 300% zoomed in screenshots looking for a missing piece of film grain or a DNR artifact.
smile.gif +1
post #6592 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


What a bad theater or a bad TV can do is ruin a movie if the faces are green and the grass is florescent. tongue.gif

With the myriad of 'stylized' movies out there, would we know the difference?wink.gif
post #6593 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

No, I don't think you're crazy, but there is a lot of information that strangers don't have. Lighting and quality calibration would be two of those things.
How many TVs do you have? wink.gif
.

Only 6 rolleyes.gif But only the 2 plasma's are the "expensive" ones.. The rest are Lcds and crts..
post #6594 of 11461
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

ive read it doesnt work so well on SD...do you know if is this correct? thx
Nothing works good on SD. When you start with crap, you usually end up the same......
post #6595 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Nothing works good on SD. When you start with crap, you usually end up the same......

Truer words were never spoken tongue.gif

Rob
post #6596 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Oh oops lol, sorry. redface.gif

I thought this was TDK as in the audio manufacturer, who had maybe produced some nice reference video.
-Back to regular viewing...


*slouches off*
I thought the same thing.
post #6597 of 11461
The Wait is OVER for me. smile.gif
My set will be delivered day after tomorrow biggrin.gif. Really Cant wait. After the first delay I was informed that it will be in June so it came as a big surprise to me.
Where is superman to accelerate the time and let it move faster smile.gif

This set looks NOTHING like the dim plasmas I have seen before. Not dim at all, Looked almost similar in its brightness and sharpness to the high end LEDs
I said before that I did not like the stand very much but I'm taking this back. It is very elegant. I'm loving it so much. Those who said that in person the stand looks better I would say they were absolutely right.
The TV screams PREMIUM QUALITY. It doesn't need anyone to guess that it is a high end premium quality set
The set I have seen had a feed of the National Geographic going on it. Looked sharp, blacks not washed out like other plasmas. crisp and most important it did not have the wax layer that I have seen on all the other plasmas which made the picture look blurry.
Whites are WHITE. No grays. Again this is the first plasma set that I see with superior white color.

So what I have seen was Standard and movie modes. Out of the box. For OTB the settings looked excellent. Maybe with few tweaks the TV will look even better.

I swear if I did not know about this TV before I would have mistaken its brightness and sharpness to LCD. Now I know why so many people are that much in love.

I'm getting ready to babysit my TV. It is so gorgeous not to babysit it.
post #6598 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post


What a bad theater or a bad TV can do is ruin a movie if the faces are green and the grass is florescent. tongue.gif

Lucas hates bad movie houses. wink.gif

+1
Just went to see 42 in a very good theater yet I kept thinking ''this would look so much better on my TV'' biggrin.gif
post #6599 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post


If only hearing loss was the result of such tomfoolery (not wearing earplugs), I would actually be thankful. Luckily, I am not afflicted with excessive tinnitus (another irritant caused by loud noises).

32 yrs of sirens and air horns will get you a nice case of tinnitus, ringing 24/7 takes some time to get used too.. hey maybe thats why my F8500 doesn't buzz eek.gif
post #6600 of 11461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

The Wait is OVER for me. smile.gif
My set will be delivered day after tomorrow biggrin.gif. Really Cant wait. After the first delay I was informed that it will be in June so it came as a big surprise to me.
Where is superman to accelerate the time and let it move faster smile.gif

This set looks NOTHING like the dim plasmas I have seen before. Not dim at all, Looked almost similar in its brightness and sharpness to the high end LEDs
I said before that I did not like the stand very much but I'm taking this back. It is very elegant. I'm loving it so much. Those who said that in person the stand looks better I would say they were absolutely right.
The TV screams PREMIUM QUALITY. It doesn't need anyone to guess that it is a high end premium quality set
The set I have seen had a feed of the National Geographic going on it. Looked sharp, blacks not washed out like other plasmas. crisp and most important it did not have the wax layer that I have seen on all the other plasmas which made the picture look blurry.
Whites are WHITE. No grays. Again this is the first plasma set that I see with superior white color.

So what I have seen was Standard and movie modes. Out of the box. For OTB the settings looked excellent. Maybe with few tweaks the TV will look even better.

I swear if I did not know about this TV before I would have mistaken its brightness and sharpness to LCD. Now I know why so many people are that much in love.

I'm getting ready to babysit my TV. It is so gorgeous not to babysit it.
The wait isnt over if you arent getting it until the day after tomorrow. But atleast you wont have to review it once you get it. You have done that a dozen times here already. biggrin.gif
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