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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 227

post #6781 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I still think it can be argued that the F8500 could *overall*match or slightly beat the ZT60 in a dark room based on its better ABL (brighter, purer whites and color), slightly sharper image, and blacks that are very close still and some say 95% identical on material. I've heard the F8500 just has a different look to it probably because of the pixel technology. At least this is based on what some people have told me from the Shootout. I have not seen either to judge.frown.gif

It certainly might match it, however.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

In a black room:

1. Less ABL might be a big bonus for the 8500 - Sammy
2. Both TVs at 30 FtL, White will be exactly the same, or should be, barring magic from those new pixels - Tie

At 30 ft/L, the effect of ABL on a Panasonic is going to be minimal. ABL is a "headroom" effect. The more you're driving more of the display, the more it comes into play. At 30 ft/L, there is a lot of headroom left and therefore the need to dim the screen even as much of it is white is limited... At 40 ft/L, the effect is more pronounced.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Excellent question, and the answer may not be measurable. Reduced ABL helps luminance pure and simple, White or Colors. The other question is, if we calibrate to the same peak luminance with some type of patterns and of course there are many "types", which emulates real world viewing the best? zoyd can help out here because he has the numbers on Average Picture Level and it might make a difference (as in + 4 Sammy).

And, again, if you look at the limited APL data we've seen, I've long explained that absent an adjacent display, it's often hard to notice your plasma being affected by ABL at all. But realistically, the effect is going to get a lot worse when you are trying to get whites to 40+ ft/L than when you are only asking for less...

None of this is to say "don't buy a Samsung" and, in fact, I recommend looking hard at one, but I recommend strongly against overrating ABL effects.
post #6782 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It certainly might match it, however.....
At 30 ft/L, the effect of ABL on a Panasonic is going to be minimal. ABL is a "headroom" effect. The more you're driving more of the display, the more it comes into play. At 30 ft/L, there is a lot of headroom left and therefore the need to dim the screen even as much of .

Then tell me this, Mark. The ZT max's out at 30 FtL. The headroom is where?????
post #6783 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I'm using one of the ferrite cores. I installed it around the power cable just under where the plug goes into the back of the tv. Not sure if it's blocking any radio frequency interference. RFI can travel up the power cable and create interference on your tv if it's excessive. Also, for those being affected by a buzzing tv, check out this link...http://www.cabletv.com/blog/how-to-fix-a-buzzing-tv/. Read the sections regarding ground loop and overmodulation. You may be surprised to find out the source of your buzzing may not even be tv related..

buzzing is created by the coils on the power supply. simple as that....
post #6784 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

[snip]

Then there's the observation that one of the Shootout calibrators stated to use APL patterns for the 8500 and Windows on Black patterns for the VT & ZT. Eh, what?

Buzz, I think that I heard it just the opposite. Normal windows for the 8500 and APL windows for the VT and ZT. I guess we'll have to wait for the YouTube posting of the second session.

Larry
post #6785 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Buzz, I think that I heard it just the opposite. Normal windows for the 8500 and APL windows for the VT and ZT. I guess we'll have to wait for the YouTube posting of the second session.

Larry

I took notes - but I was drinking.... lololol
post #6786 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAL2000 View Post

I will try tonight Rangers/Bruins.I have to TV side-by-side Samsung F8500 and Pioneer 6070HD
I am watching the game right now and no pop-ups at all. But I am sure I saw pop-ups at yesterday's game.
post #6787 of 11459
Notes: Quote: Me

Windows - Pan 10-18% non APL // Samsung use APL patterns (and, duh?) LCD - full screen....... tongue.gif
post #6788 of 11459
I heard APL for the Sammy. I had not been drinking BUT I had three cats on my face and a wife waffling at me rolleyes.gif
post #6789 of 11459
For those of you that don't listen this weeks podcast of Home Theater Geeks (this sites Scott wilkinson) is on the shootout and Kevin B is the interviewee. Haven't listened to the entire thing yet though hoping some more tidbits are talked about.
post #6790 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

It certainly might match it, however.....
At 30 ft/L, the effect of ABL on a Panasonic is going to be minimal. ABL is a "headroom" effect. The more you're driving more of the display, the more it comes into play. At 30 ft/L, there is a lot of headroom left and therefore the need to dim the screen even as much of it is white is limited... At 40 ft/L, the effect is more pronounced.
And, again, if you look at the limited APL data we've seen, I've long explained that absent an adjacent display, it's often hard to notice your plasma being affected by ABL at all. But realistically, the effect is going to get a lot worse when you are trying to get whites to 40+ ft/L than when you are only asking for less...

None of this is to say "don't buy a Samsung" and, in fact, I recommend looking hard at one, but I recommend strongly against overrating ABL effects.

Rogo,

I have a pro calibrated 65ST30 at 33 fl and the ABL is very evident and behavior compared to my brother's F5300.

I never thought ABL was an issue with the ST30. I too thought it was just overblown, over-stated talk. But when you actually compare it to another display with better APL at similar light output, it stood out to me (with same content).
Edited by DavidHir - 5/21/13 at 6:58pm
post #6791 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAL2000 View Post

I am watching the game right now and no pop-ups at all. But I am sure I saw pop-ups at yesterday's game.
Then what you saw was most likely strobes smile.gif
post #6792 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post

Hali, congrats on the new set. Please to enjoy it. With regards to banding and buzz...don't LOOK for it. If you don't notice it while watching regularly, you have nothing to gain by LOOKING for problems. I can't tell you the amount of times in my life I've had a product I've loved, and then someone mentions a flaw I never noticed, then I can't notice anything else. Just sit back and enjoy your new awesome tv.
This x1000000000000000000
post #6793 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I'm using one of the ferrite cores. I installed it around the power cable just under where the plug goes into the back of the tv. Not sure if it's blocking any radio frequency interference. RFI can travel up the power cable and create interference on your tv if it's excessive. Also, for those being affected by a buzzing tv, check out this link...http://www.cabletv.com/blog/how-to-fix-a-buzzing-tv/. Read the sections regarding ground loop and overmodulation. You may be surprised to find out the source of your buzzing may not even be tv related..

Thanks Dan, guess I might as well use them. Still haven't turned the TV on, have a friend coming soon to help me take it out of the box/mount.

Did you read through the "For any problem" paper taped to the back cover on the TV? You would think they would have used spell/grammar check for something they included in their flagship plasma lol... "When you lift up a 55" or larger TV, your thumd touches the sareen directly, you can damage the screen."
post #6794 of 11459
So I recently returned a Sony HX950 due to very bad vertical banding and decided on a 51" F8500. Awesome picture with the 8500 and I love it so far, but I've noticed vertical banding on white and very light backgrounds. I attached 3 photos here, the horizontal lines that can be seen I think are due to my camera and can't be seen on the TV by my eyes. Does anyone see the vertical banding or am I being way too picky? Thanks for looking I appreciate it. (Edit- I am probably being too picky but it is obvious when watching hockey, sadly)



post #6795 of 11459
^ Do you see any banding in real content? If not then go with it. As posted a bit earlier today in this thread, if you go out of your way to try and find faults, you will probably find them with every set you get.

I can't see any banding at 50-100% white on my 51" but TBH, I haven't really been looking for banding either.

Just my 2c.
post #6796 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Doesn't the better ABL help whites and colors though? At least in terms of "appearing" more pure even if they don't measure differently? Something is happening as on my brother's F5300 I see this compared to my ST30 (and yet mine is pro cal'd and his is not).

Excellent question, and the answer may not be measurable. Reduced ABL helps luminance pure and simple, White or Colors. The other question is, if we calibrate to the same peak luminance with some type of patterns and of course there are many "types", which emulates real world viewing the best? zoyd can help out here because he has the numbers on Average Picture Level and it might make a difference (as in + 4 Sammy).

Then there's the observation that one of the Shootout calibrators stated to use APL patterns for the 8500 and Windows on Black patterns for the VT & ZT. Eh, what?

I'd be comfortable saying that the APL for most movies is low enough that ABL is not really a factor for any of these plasmas set around 35 ftL. So I don't see the 8500 having an advantage at that peak luminance with respect to hitting the correct luminances. It's big advantage is being able to expand that range into the 50-60 ftL peak output if you need it. Of course there is plenty of material with APL higher than the typical movie (some sports, news casts, commercials, etc.)
post #6797 of 11459
Nothing unusual there: Korean definition of thumd is:

post #6798 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ Do you see any banding in real content? If not then go with it. As posted a bit earlier today in this thread, if you go out of your way to try and find faults, you will probably find them with every set you get.

I can't see any banding at 50-100% white on my 51" but TBH, I haven't really been looking for banding either.

Just my 2c.

I see it mostly when watching hockey otherwise it is much less noticeable when watching other regular content that has lighter colors + panning. If it wasn't hockey playoff time I probably never would've noticed it frown.gif Other than this issue there are no bad pixels and there is no abnormal buzzing. The kicker is my dad has a 3 year old Panasonic TH series pro plasma and while not as sharp as my 8500, there is no banding at all that I could see. So I've seen a perfect panel in person and I'm jealous.
post #6799 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Thanks Dan, guess I might as well use them. Still haven't turned the TV on, have a friend coming soon to help me take it out of the box/mount.

Did you read through the "For any problem" paper taped to the back cover on the TV? You would think they would have used spell/grammar check for something they included in their flagship plasma lol... "When you lift up a 55" or larger TV, your thumd touches the sareen directly, you can damage the screen."
Yes, I saw those mispellings, and I remembered laughing myself. That's certainly not the first time I've seen technical manuals have mispellings. Best of luck with your new F8500!!
post #6800 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Friendssssss
Just got the TV biggrin.gif What a surprise. Was told it will arrive tomorrow but it came today.
Soooooo loving it. Don't have the time to write the first impression but let me say the things that worry most of us before any TV arrives:
1- Banding: Not a hint of it. I used all the slides of D-nice and was looking very very close and very hard. Nothing. Can't see anything. smile.gif
2- Buzzing: Nothing. No buzzing at all. I mute the set and put my head on the screen. I'm trying to hear the buzz but cannot hear anything
3- Dead pixels: None, checked with the slides. nothing there.

Right now its on movie mode with contrast at 50 and brightness at 45. I have Planet Earth on now and even with the contrast half way down this TV looks spectacular.

My only problem is that when I switch off the TV and switch it back on it goes back to dynamic mode. Is there any setting I have to change to prevent it from doing so.
I appreciate your help

Sounds great Hali. I can check off those first 3 too. smile.gif

Robert delivered mine this afternoon via Lisandro, who did his typical great job moving and wall-mounting my Sharp Elite in the bedroom. Thanks to Robert, Wendy and crew for another job well done.

Hali, not sure why yours is going back to dynamic. Mine updated the camera twice when I turned it off and back on again, but it's stable now.

BTW, I can attest to the fact that one of the updates rolled in an improvement in judder mitigation. I didn't let it update at the beginning to establish a baseline and I noticed a significant amount of judder that bothered me. The judder controls just gave me a bit more of the SOE than I would have liked. I then let it go through the firmware update and noticed a very dramatic reduction in judder. I now can leave the judder reduction off. Nice. smile.gif

Robert called me early this evening to see how things were going and he confirmed that the update did have an improvement to judder.

I've got a business trip tomorrow, so I won't have any time to play before the weekend. Thus far, I'm really happy with this panel. smile.gif
post #6801 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post


[snip]

My only problem is that when I switch off the TV and switch it back on it goes back to dynamic mode. Is there any setting I have to change to prevent it from doing so.
I appreciate your help


Hali,

From the user manual:
Quote:
The settings are lost after 30 minutes or every time the TV is turned off.

If Use Mode is set to Store Demo, the TV's audio and video settings are
automatically reset every 30 minutes.

Change Use Mode (Support > Use Mode) to Home Use.

Larry
post #6802 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Then tell me this, Mark. The ZT max's out at 30 FtL. The headroom is where?????

Precisely. The impact of ABL is not minimized by me. I've done enough A/Bs to see it happens more often than some think.
post #6803 of 11459
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I still think it can be argued that the F8500 could *overall*match or slightly beat the ZT60 in a dark room based on its better ABL (brighter, purer whites and color), slightly sharper image, and blacks that are very close still and some say 95% identical on material. I've heard the F8500 just has a different look to it probably because of the pixel technology. At least this is based on what some people have told me from the Shootout. I have not seen either to judge.frown.gif
smile.gif I smile when I read this because I think to myself, does it really matter ? We know all three of these sets are modern marvels....... smile.gif
post #6804 of 11459
Just turned my 60F8500 on for the first time, the buzz is pretty loud frown.gif can hear it perfectly from 11ft away... going to watch some stuff now
post #6805 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post


[snip]

My only problem is that when I switch off the TV and switch it back on it goes back to dynamic mode. Is there any setting I have to change to prevent it from doing so.
I appreciate your help


Hali,

From the user manual:
Quote:
The settings are lost after 30 minutes or every time the TV is turned off.

If Use Mode is set to Store Demo, the TV's audio and video settings are
automatically reset every 30 minutes.

Change Use Mode (Support > Use Mode) to Home Use.

Larry
Yellow doesn't work well on my monitor wink.gif.
post #6806 of 11459
Here in puerto rico we have a small frog that is all night singing but we dont even hear it if we are not searching for the sound.maybe is the same with the buzzing.my a/c buzz my fan buzz and my refrigerator buzz too.LOL
post #6807 of 11459
You can hear the coqui wink.gif get some coquito or some moonshine and they fade into the background smile.gif
post #6808 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Yellow doesn't work well on my monitor wink.gif.

Tough. Get over it.tongue.gif Blue doesn't work on mine. biggrin.gif

Larry
post #6809 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Yellow doesn't work well on my monitor wink.gif.

Just select the text with your mouse and it will be readable.
post #6810 of 11459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

You can hear the coqui wink.gif get some coquito or some moonshine and they fade into the background smile.gif
its that easy bro!!!!!LOL
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