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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 240

post #7171 of 11457
Hard to say yeah, it seems similar because they both came up with the fluctuating term and both are in reference to letterbox bars.
post #7172 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

In an "owners" thread you can red flag posts that are not asking for technical help or giving it. It helps even more if owners don't take the bait. wink.gif
I know from experience that you and Ken are already keenly aware that you can report someone in this thread just as easily as any other.
Of course most members are aware that AVS promotes using the red flag instead of direct confrontation. That's why it's in the AVS rules. smile.gif

What AVS does, when a thread can't seem to stay on topic, is close the thread. Those still interested in the topic can start a new one with a fresh start.

Avoiding "taking the bait" does wonders for any thread regardless of how well the topic is defined.
Edited by htwaits - 5/23/13 at 9:56pm
post #7173 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I need to get to bed - time flies going through this stuff. lol But, doing some more experiments, contrast seems to be play a bigger role with the issue - not so much with cell light. Perhaps it is more of a leakage of white spilling into black vs pure floating issue. When I turned cell down to 1 and contrast to 0, I saw pure consistency. Increasing cell seemed fine, but once contrast starts creeping higher and higher, the issue can be seen more. I need to re-test tomorrow, but that is what I noticed on my last test.

Dave, sorry if you've posted this already but I hate when I'm gone a few hours and come back and see bickering for 10 pages since my last post.

Have you checked to make sure Dynamic Contrast has been disabled? And checked to make sure you don't have any black level settings at low, lower, or lowest? Make sure all that stuff is off?
post #7174 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Well, spent a fair amount of time tonight exploring the floating blacks (or whatever you want to call it). All of the floating blacks I am seeing are repeatable no matter where the Dark Optimizer is set. I can even give you time stamps if you own Season 1 of Star Trek TOS. However, I suspect other content would be able to produce it. Even looking at test and pluge patterns, I cannot see any black level change or difference no matter where the Dark Optimizer is at; perhaps it's somewhat dynamic and depends on a scene with some contrast. But, I watched several of the same scenes over and over again with the Dark optimizer off, bright room, and dark room - I couldn't detect any changes. Now, Cinema Smooth is a different matter where the blacks noticeably rise (as has been reported), but they still float. I also tried more combinations of cell light and contrast, but makes no difference.

thank you for confirming the optimizer. curious what your hdmi is set at? is it just with bluray, or any content?
post #7175 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post

I've really been enjoying your reviews, as your experience seems to echo mine almost completely. I agree about the menus - they're really annoying and why did they have to stick it right in the center of the screen? The remote is definitely pretty cool. Love how small it is and the touchpad is surprisingly useful and handy. I've also had no problem with input lag and don't understand all the talk about it. I game on my F8500 and use it as an HTPC, and have had no real issue with lag - the mouse responds immediately for me as well, and shooters work great. If there's any lag, I sure haven't noticed it.

I haven't done much with the 3D yet. I use an HTPC so not sure how to playback 3D. Do you have to have a 3D bluray player? I downloaded a 3D demo online and played it back from the HTPC but it didn't look that great to me. Also, the 3D demos they have in the SmartTV section didn't look so great either. I wonder if it's because I wear glasses and I'm not wearing the 3D glasses close enough to my eyes or something.

If you wanna see something really awesome, watch the Dredd Bluray on it. There is a panorama shot of the megacity at night that is just stunning. I mean truly mind-boggling. It's right at the beginning of the movie. The detail and contrast and colors in that scene just come to life on the F8500. I took a screen shot of that scene and made it my HTPC desktop. LOL.

Thank you.
Regarding the 3D. I haven't used my HTPC for 3D playback so cannot comment on how good or bad it will be. I downloaded a 3D demo from the smart hub and I'm telling you this is completely not what I have experienced when using a 3D bluray with a 3D bluray player. The experience is HUGELY different. I did not feel that the demos in the smart hub could make justice to the 3D capabilities of the TV. You need to get a 3D player and check it out yourself. I guarantee you will be very impressed.

My setup is 3D Player connected to 3D Capable AVR which is connected to the TV
Fortunately the TV came with a Home Theater so I did not need to purchase a 3D player.
This is the HT I got

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/tv-audio-video/home-entertainment/blu-ray-home-entertainment-system/HT-F4550/XU
post #7176 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I think some of you are getting way too hung up over black optimizer mode on the 8500's. I cannot see any visual changes to the screen cycling through its settings. There has been at least five 8500 owners today who have all agreed they cannot see any visual changes to the screen when adjusting black optimizer......I'm sure there's many more out there. Just enjoy you new TV!!!

Count me in.
Honestly the blacks for me are so inky. But No matter what option I choose under Black Optimizer: (off, Dark room, bright room, auto) I do not see even a bit of change. Nothing. I don't know it might be bug or what? Is the optimizer on all the time on my set? or is it broken and off all the time? No Idea. I have the European model and the firmware is 1004.

While on the other hand using my HTPC under HDMI black level there is a big difference I see: When in normal the blacks are good. but when I set it to low they become super inky, might cause very slight shadow detail loss but the black gets huge noticeable difference.

Can't say the same about Black Optimizer. Can't see even a slight difference between any of its 4 options.
post #7177 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

Just want to say, I absolutely loved the picture before, but my calibrator came yesterday (Doug Weil) and did his thing and... OH .. MY .. GAWD! My wife and I watched Jack Reacher last night on the best picture I've ever seen. Ever, ever.... I am so freaking happy! I've never ever seen anything look this flat out perfect. Doug was laughing at me when he put in his reference bluray and about 10 minutes into it I screamed out: HOLY ****, and he's like what? and I was like, I just realized this movie has black bars! They had disappeared into the dark. Like, bezel black. You had to strain really hard to tell and it was difficult (near pitch black room).

He got so much more out of this tv that I never thought possible. The calibration was worth 10 times what I paid for it... I just can't believe what I am seeing now. The colors are orgasmic. Everything is just, so.... f'n PERFECT now. I could not be happier and I am so glad I cancelled my zt60 order and got this. It's so clear, clean and picture perfect. It POPS and is black as night. Hell yes... this will make me happy for the next decade easy.

Wonderful. Wish I had any calibrators in my area. I'm really glad that all turned very well for you. Always good to see happy and satisfied people.
post #7178 of 11457
Finally I finished reading today's unread posts (Couldn't read yesterdays) and I have to say that except for a few posts I really got BORED of the non constructive, non beneficial posts.

People who keep complaining while they don't own the set have no right to do so.
If you are an owner and you have a problem you are welcome to post and other owners will assist.
If you are a potential buyer you are welcome to post your queries and we can help to answer.

But to those who have no intention in buying this TV, then why are you posting? to bore us? Please bore someone else with your posts.
post #7179 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Thanks for the update. If they could nail this issue down (whatever you want to call it - to me seems like floating blacks) I could be happy with this set.

Dave, have you noticed this with any 8500 you've seen in the store?
post #7180 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

LOLOLOLOLOL!!! I've been trying to tell everyone on this thread throughout the day, especially Mr. Nfraso, that setting black optimizer has no Visual effect on the screen.....He probably won't believe you either, but he's been defending you all day in this thread!! This is so funny!!!

Dan, I think Kevin Miller got very slightly different results with MLL, but they could only be seen with his meter if memory serves me.
post #7181 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

In an "owners" thread you can red flag posts that are not asking for technical help or giving it. It helps even more if owners don't take the bait. wink.gif

So let's do it.
post #7182 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

This is exactly what I mean, you have appointed yourself as judge, jury, and executioner and assigned everyone into little groups. They are not my "buddies," but the constant desire to make this personal really brings out the pettiness that you pretend to be above. I changed my characterization of the problem because it was apparently misinterpreted from the beginning. How dare I try to get a better handle on the issue an owner is facing. cool.gif

Another very constructive post Vinnie, thanks. Pretty much done with your posts in this thread. Fire away and as you would say, enjoy your precious.
post #7183 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Count me in.
Honestly the blacks for me are so inky. But No matter what option I choose under Black Optimizer: (off, Dark room, bright room, auto) I do not see even a bit of change. Nothing. I don't know it might be bug or what? Is the optimizer on all the time on my set? or is it broken and off all the time? No Idea. I have the European model and the firmware is 1004.

While on the other hand using my HTPC under HDMI black level there is a big difference I see: When in normal the blacks are good. but when I set it to low they become super inky, might cause very slight shadow detail loss but the black gets huge noticeable difference.

Can't say the same about Black Optimizer. Can't see even a slight difference between any of its 4 options.

some guys from our local forum reported the same issue with their EU models. After a factory reset of the TV black optimizer worked normal.
You may want to try .
post #7184 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

How is that funny, it wasn't my claim:
Also, it seems Dave is stuck with the issue regardless of any settings- so I don't find that funny either.

I don't believe that Dan thought it was funny that he was 'stuck with the issue'. Are you aware that 'funny' can be used in different ways depending on the context?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

I also don't understand why Ken and others are saying this isn't floating blacks, but Ken also claims that they are working on "further improving" floating blacks...

Which is it?

Since I don't know what it is having never seen it, I'm simply using the phrasing that Air used in describing it. Is that OK or would you like to spend 3 pages arguing about that.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfraso View Post

Furthermore, your claim that black optimizer has "no visual effect on the screen" is at odds with what Ken is saying here:

As I said before, Kevin Miller measured very slight changes in black level depending on the Optimizer setting. The key word is 'measured', in that it may not be observable. Are you aware that certain differences in settings can exist according to instruments, but not be seen?

So since your posting style is of a contrarian nature (Someone says black, you say white, someone says up you say down), I will stop responding to your posts. There is more than enough clutter here.
post #7185 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

some guys from our local forum reported the same issue with their EU models. After a factory reset of the TV black optimizer worked normal.
You may want to try .

Thanks for a constructive post. Anyone that has the issue might want to give it a try. smile.gif
post #7186 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Dave, what's odd is that I don't believe floating blacks was noticed at all during the shootout by either the calibrators or attendees. I know I didn't see it. I can't recall any owner discussing it sine the firmware update either.

Actually, D-Nice did mention the floating blacks during the shootout. He didn't go into much detail, other than stating it only happens in some content. It was one of the reasons he preferred the Panasonic for his dark-room viewing. I think it was during day2 Q&A session.

Dave, did you try doing a factory reset? Maybe the optimizer is stuck and needs a hard reset before it functions correctly?
post #7187 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

some guys from our local forum reported the same issue with their EU models. After a factory reset of the TV black optimizer worked normal.
You may want to try .

Thank you for the suggestion. I just did a factory reset but nothing has changed. Still I cannot see any difference when changing the black Optimizer settings.
post #7188 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks for a constructive post. Anyone that has the issue might want to give it a try. smile.gif

I have no issues but tried it and nothing changed. Same as before. I guess someone that has north American version should try to see.
I guess as you said Ken it is only visible in the measurement and cannot be noticed by the eyes but I wonder why would Samsung implement something that cannot be visible to the eyes and it is not just on and off but giving it 4 different options?

Can other owners please confirm if they see any visible difference when they change the BO? Appreciate the response
post #7189 of 11457
maybe a silly question, but do You check the TVs black level in a dark or bright room? To see a difference of such low MLLs You need a complete dark room, for ideal the TV is the only light source. Than You should clearly see a difference.
post #7190 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

maybe a silly question, but do You check the TVs black level in a dark or bright room? To see a difference of such low MLLs You need a complete dark room, for ideal the TV is the only light source. Than You should clearly see a difference.

I checked in both. Light and dark room. After the reset only in bright room but will check it tonight in pitch dark room and report again
post #7191 of 11457
I've tested the 64" EU model a few weeks ago, firmware 1001, 1002 and 1004. With all versions the black optimizer worked well and I could clearly see the difference in black when set to ON. There was also a visible improvement in black for higher APLs from 1002 to 1004. If You test in a pitch black room, wait a few minutes then Your eyes will get more sensitive to light and You should use movie with very low APL or maybe just a black pattern with 0 IRE.
You can download the AVSHD709 disc or mp4 files if You want to try the 0 IRE pattern.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

I would also recommend this disc to set brightness and contrast correct on Your TV, as brightness setting is too low by default and You loose details near black. 47 was the right setting for my set. At least these two settings can be done easy by everyone.
Edited by DrFaxe - 5/24/13 at 5:34am
post #7192 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

maybe a silly question, but do You check the TVs black level in a dark or bright room? To see a difference of such low MLLs You need a complete dark room, for ideal the TV is the only light source. Than You should clearly see a difference.

That is the only way.

Interesting price - check Great Found Deals - http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471418/samsung-f8500-pricing-reduction#post_23350937
post #7193 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

some guys from our local forum reported the same issue with their EU models. After a factory reset of the TV black optimizer worked normal.
You may want to try .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Thank you for the suggestion. I just did a factory reset but nothing has changed. Still I cannot see any difference when changing the black Optimizer settings.

Are we talking about resetting a particular mode(Dynamic, Standard, Movie ect..) or a true total Factory reset?? Honestly I haven't seen that option in Settings and can't remember seeing it in Service Mode when I was in there (when I activated Cal Day/Night)..

PS:Nice to be back on topics and not dealing with trolls cool.gif
post #7194 of 11457
Buzz,

I've read that You're going to test the F8500, especially ABL behavior. Any news on that? As I'm curious about the results.
Thanks!
post #7195 of 11457
I am having a big time problem with my set lately. wink.gif
I can't find any new Blu-rays to watch. Anybody have any good suggestions for the latest and greatest movies that have just come out?

Sorry, This isnt a F8500 series discussion. So, let me rephrase. Best and latest blu-ray to show off the inky blacks on the F8500 maybe?
post #7196 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinger View Post


Are we talking about resetting a particular mode(Dynamic, Standard, Movie ect..) or a true total Factory reset?? Honestly I haven't seen that option in Settings and can't remember seeing it in Service Mode when I was in there (when I activated Cal Day/Night)..

PS:Nice to be back on topics and not dealing with trolls cool.gif

I was talking about the factory reset You can find in the TV's menu, no need to go into service menu. You can find it under Support > Self Diagnosis > Reset. But can only speak for EU models.
Edited by DrFaxe - 5/24/13 at 6:03am
post #7197 of 11457
Wallymart have Skyfall for Fathers day for ten bucks over here.
post #7198 of 11457
I also just bought TDK for fifteen.
post #7199 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Wallymart have Skyfall for Fathers day for ten bucks over here.
Excellent choice.
post #7200 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

I've tested the 64" EU model a few weeks ago, firmware 1001, 1002 and 1004. With all versions the black optimizer worked well and I could clearly see the difference in black when set to ON. There was also a visible improvement in black for higher APLs from 1002 to 1004. If You test in a pitch black room, wait a few minutes then Your eyes will get more sensitive to light and You should use movie with very low APL or maybe just a black pattern with 0 IRE.
You can download the AVSHD709 disc or mp4 files if You want to try the 0 IRE pattern.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

I would also recommend this disc to set brightness and contrast correct on Your TV, as brightness setting is too low by default and You loose details near black. 47 was the right setting for my set. At least these two settings can be done easy by everyone.

Thank you for confirming that. I will check that tonight and will report back.
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