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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 245

post #7321 of 11478
Is anybody know how to enter Development mode to download third-party applications ?
post #7322 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTri View Post

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a 64F8500 as my first plasma. This may be a strange question but will going from a 60" LED to a plasma have a big impact on my electric bill?
Members with engineering backgrounds have done estimations and while there will be an increase, it shouldn't be enough to worry about. I don't recall exact results, but it seemed to me that the difference was small enough to get lost in the normal variation month to month.

Yes. You are looking at about 2.75 a month vs 1.25 based on my ca prices. If you crank it all the way maybe 3.
post #7323 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinTri View Post

I'm ready to pull the trigger on a 64F8500 as my first plasma. This may be a strange question but will going from a 60" LED to a plasma have a big impact on my electric bill?

You can estimate it:

((Average power draw in watts of calibrated plasma - LED) * (Average hours watched per day) * 30) / 1000 = kWh/mo increase
$/kWh * kWh/mo = $/mo increase

Just for fun, assume the average power draw increase is 200 W, you watch 5 hours/day, and a kWh is billed at $.10 (mine is actually about 9 cents, so that's not far off). Then:

200*5*30/1000 = 30 kWh/mo extra compared to LED
$.10*30 = $3/mo extra

Since you're watching 150 hours/mo, ($3/mo / 150 hrs/mo) = $.02/hour extra or 2 pennies per hour penalty for watching plasma. To be really accurate, you might need to account for running the A/C a little more in summer and the heater a little less in winter. biggrin.gif

I don't know what the average power draw of a calibrated 64F8500 vs your 60" LED is, but I would guess the difference would not be less than 200W and not more than 400W, so figure $3-$6/mo extra for this usage pattern and energy rate.
post #7324 of 11478
Ok, tried ARC but was not successful in making it work. I enabled the ARC option in my AVR but still nothing. I'm not sure if there is any setting that need to be changed in the TV itself. The only thing I was able to see in the sound menu was choosing the speakers between the TV or external speakers. Why the receiver is grayed out? any idea?
post #7325 of 11478
I have a query guys

What will happen if I reset the TV and change the region to North America? Will the whole TV change to that region? Will I get North American firmware updates?
Did anybody do that before? Just curious
post #7326 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

They are just the two that I have the most familiarity with. Actually, I tend to leave my AVR setup alone except for the volume control. wink.gif
That's right. It's also why some think they are getting 5.1 directly from a external source connected to a TV. I checked and the current Denon AVRs have PLIIx M in Music mode which can drive the six speakers in a 5.1 setup using a stereo input. At least with a Denon, it's very easy to get that result using the remote.

I'm not saying that's what people are hearing, but it's a possibility.
AFAIK all brands of newer avr have Dolby Pro Logic IIx. My Yamaha has it.
post #7327 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz747 View Post


I sent an email to the CNet reviewer complaining that his review had convinced me to the buy the ST60 and later the VT60, and that they were unwatchable for hockey. I asked him if he even bothered to view them with any whites on screen, play an video games, or use an HTPC. I received a response that merely stated they use a standard suite of reference material which does not include HTPC, video games or sports broadcasts. So potential buyers should probably take his results with a grain of salt.

I've said this before, but just look at almost any product reviewed on CNET and there's a good chance you'll see a radical difference between CNET's opinion and those of the actual users who use the product day in and day out. I learned a long time ago not to be a slave to reviewer's opinions. They're simply one data point. There are some reviewers I do respect more than others though.
post #7328 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Ok, tried ARC but was not successful in making it work. I enabled the ARC option in my AVR but still nothing. I'm not sure if there is any setting that need to be changed in the TV itself. The only thing I was able to see in the sound menu was choosing the speakers between the TV or external speakers. Why the receiver is grayed out? any idea?
this may be silly to say but are your HDMI cables the latest High Speed HDMI Cable - Ultra Series - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return [Newest Standard]
post #7329 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

this may be silly to say but are your HDMI cables the latest High Speed HDMI Cable - Ultra Series - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return [Newest Standard]

Yes, Ethernet, 3D High Speed HDMI
post #7330 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I've said this before, but just look at almost any product reviewed on CNET and there's a good chance you'll see a radical difference between CNET's opinion and those of the actual users who use the product day in and day out. I learned a long time ago not to be a slave to reviewer's opinions. They're simply one data point. There are some reviewers I do respect more than others though.

I agree with you Ken, but I also am of the opinion that alot of hanky panky goes on between SOME reviewers and the manufacturers, that in my opinion is ONE of the reasons that they use
what they call a standard set of REFERENCE material to do the review INSTEAD of using the material needed to review the product for real life customer use.
IMO this whole REVIEW debacle is been invented to benefit the manufacturers.

It would be a much better system if they would use real life customer event material to do their REVIEWS that way we could believe what was found in testing.

Anyway my 2 cents worth,

Rob
post #7331 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Yes, Ethernet, 3D High Speed HDMI

Did you setup your AVR for the remote? I forget where it is at the moment. I think press the SOURCE button
and select Universal Remote Setup on the top right of the screen. Not sure If this will help but give it a shot maybe wont be greyed out anymore.
post #7332 of 11478
Yet another Update:

- Last night I have used pie's new settings and loved it very much. Thanks to him now the punch is more. Great job Pie. Love how the colors look vibrant. Photos cannot show what I'm seeing.







- As was suggested by some members here, last night I watched the movie The Mechanic in a totally dark room to test the black optimizer option. I have to confirm again that I cannot see even the slightest difference between any two of the four options under BO. I alternated between all the options and have not noticed any difference. not a subtle one too. So again I might think that this option is either:
1-Broken
2- Cannot be seen except for very rare conditions
3- Can only be measured but not seen
I tend to feel it is broken and need a fix.

- I have said this point before but will share it with my own settings this time. I find this TV to be doing a really good job in presenting DVDs (SD material). Specially series from the 80s. Usually TV shows from that era has lots of noise and with just changing few settings you will see a big difference in quality. Yesterday I watched one episode from Murder She Wrote and another episode of Dynasty. I keep both Digital Clean View and MPEG Noise Filter at auto and then increase the sharpness to 20. It clears the picture from unwanted noise without distorting it. It is just like giving a new life to the picture of these shows. Try it and see for yourself. For me it made a big big difference. I use this setting only for the older TV shows.





On a separate note, today I got the last three seasons to complete my collection of this wonderful series. biggrin.gif
post #7333 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

In the last few weeks, CNET's David Katzmaier has written several reviews of Panasonic's latest plasma panels. The first of those reviews was a whopper—the Panasonic ST60 received the highest recommendation ever given to a television by CNET. The next one was the four-star rated VT60; in that review, Katzmaier said he finally found a "Kuro killer"—a television that outperforms the famed Pioneer Kuro plasma—and stated that the VT60 produced the second-best picture of any HDTV he has ever reviewed


How is the F8500 producing a better picture then a VT60 ?

Because David has one opinion and we have another. Just as the calibrators had one opinion and the attendees had another. Remember who was crowned the King of HDTV? wink.gif
post #7334 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

this may be silly to say but are your HDMI cables the latest High Speed HDMI Cable - Ultra Series - Supports Ethernet, 3D, and Audio Return [Newest Standard]
Even standard (not high speed) HDMI cables support ARC. I doubt you could find standard speed HDMI cables now if you tried.
post #7335 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post



I'm related. smile.gif Had lunch with her at the studio once - but I'm not about to admit how many years ago that was..... lolol
post #7336 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

Did you setup your AVR for the remote? I forget where it is at the moment. I think press the SOURCE button
and select Universal Remote Setup on the top right of the screen. Not sure If this will help but give it a shot maybe wont be greyed out anymore.

Thank you for suggesting that. I tried but it didn't work. under sound only two options I get, TV speakers and External. Even when my AVR is saved under the universal remote setup
post #7337 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Yes my AVR has both ARC and optical audio input too.
Which one to use? which one is more practical.

Right now the AVR is connected to the TV through HDMI 1

This is my AVR
http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V673-7-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B007JF85WE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1369417757&sr=8-1&keywords=YAMAHA+673
this is the U.S. VERSION of the manual
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=usa.yamaha.com&asset_id=55178
check out page 97 ARC
Enables/disables ARC (page23) when HDMI Control is set to on
Off disables ARC
on enables ARC
post #7338 of 11478
B.O. ISSUE

i do share as well what Halimali is seeing. Hopefully if it's truly "broken" that it's stuck in the engaged position, and not off.eek.gif
post #7339 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I'm related. smile.gif Had lunch with her at the studio once - but I'm not about to admit how many years ago that was..... lolol

Lucky you. I bet she is a nice lady in person too
post #7340 of 11478
okay guys i finally made the exchange from my 65hx950 to the 64f8500 the sammy comes in on monday are there any tips suggestion you guys can give me to look out for when i get it set up etc.. thanks in advance
how to be pro active in not getting ir this is my first plasma.
O and Halimali where did you get your settingsn from to get your pic to look like that
post #7341 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by bargervais View Post

this is the U.S. VERSION of the manual
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=usa.yamaha.com&asset_id=55178
check out page 97 ARC
Enables/disables ARC (page23) when HDMI Control is set to on
Off disables ARC
on enables ARC

I did that too. I changed HDMI Control to ON, then turned on the ARC option. It didn't work
post #7342 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Well, guys, I just wanted to give an update. I will make it brief.

I ended up getting a 65VT60 delivered tonight as it was going to be that display or the F8500 for 2013. I am determined to upgrade this year no matter what.

Once it got dark, I fed the same Blu-ray video feed from an Oppo 103 to the 64F8500 and 65VT60. Yep, I had a mini shootout with both sets side by side seeing the exact same video.

I triple checked the brightness and contrast settings on both displays. I also checked ALL of the other video settings.

I am being as objective as I can as I have no brand loyalty; just looking for the best set for my viewing needs (or wants I should say).

There is absolutely no question the VT60 is for me. The blacks are notably deeper and rock stable on all content - like a vice grip. I was re-playing the same Star Trek scenes I mentioned earlier and a significant difference in my opinion.

I still think the F8500 is a great display and in no way am I trying to knock it. I am just giving you my honest, open opinion (again, dark room impressions although the VT60 still gets pretty bright - but nowhere like the F8500). As a result, I am not going to comment any longer on the VT60 in this thread as I respect this thread as an "F8500". I will still check in time to time as I will still have a general curiosity about the F8500, but the VT60 is without question the display for me.

Best of luck Dave. As I said in our PMs, I thought the VT was a better fit for you. I'm sure you'll be happy, these are two exceptional displays.

Also, thanks very much for your comments and awareness on posting in the VT thread as opposed to the 8500 thread. Your are truly a gentleman and many could learn a lot from your ethical approach to this!

As to your observations, I know you saw what you saw, but I guess what confuses me though is at the shootout, in a totally darkened room, almost all of us saw the differences in black levels as quite minor and not of any great magnitude. For 95% of the material, it was essentially indistinguishable.

Here's the other odd thing. I watched TDK last night to look specifically for the issue with the top & bottom crop bars. I saw no fluctuations in the brightness. I even cupped my hands over the screen adjacent to the bars to give me better sheltering from the lit portions of the screen. I still saw no fluctuations. Of course when you do this, you can see the bars are not totally dark, but when you go back to your viewing distance, the bars pretty much disappear. So I can't figure out what's going on with your unit and the fact that almost nobody else, Air excluded, has mentioned it, I can't help but wonder if there isn't sample to sample variation. Of course I wouldn't rule out sensitivity to this issue either, but I don't think that's likely based on what I saw last night.

At any rate, I've got to say that the 8500 really wowed me last night. Having just gotten back from a business trip, I didn't have much time prior to this trip to spend with the display.

I did some comparisons with 'my reference', the Sharp Elite. The 8500 truly held its own with the Elite and surpassed it in some ways. I was watching some old movie on one of the movie channels and it appeared that the blacks in the scene were a bit muddy. So I raced into the bedroom to compare that same scene on the Elite. Although the blacks were just a tiny bit darker, the Elite also depicted the scene in a muddy way. So it was the source and not the display. That's always the advantage of doing these A/Bs.

What really strikes me about the set is how close the colors are, out-of-the-box, to my calibrated Elite. Keep in mind the only adjustments I've made to the gray scale are 2 clicks down on red for both gain and cuts. That's it. The Elite, in the THX mode out-of-the-box, didn't come close to the 8500's rendering. Very impressive. Of course I'll still get mine calibrated once I've got enough hours.

Detail is exceptional and my gut is it may surpass the Elite, though I need more time to feel confident about that. The ABL behavior of the 8500 really puts it in close proximity to the full-array Elite. That's just plain remarkable. Yes, with full screen whites on commercials, the Elite still gets brighter, but it's really pretty damn good and a ton better than any other plasma I've ever seen.

So far, really pleased! smile.gif
post #7343 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

B.O. ISSUE

i do share as well what Halimali is seeing. Hopefully if it's truly "broken" that it's stuck in the engaged position, and not off.eek.gif

I guess we should contact Samsung about this to get a clarification to which extent this B.O. is visible.
post #7344 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdjocp View Post

okay guys i finally made the exchange from my 65hx950 to the 64f8500 the sammy comes in on monday are there any tips suggestion you guys can give me to look out for when i get it set up etc.. thanks in advance
how to be pro active in not getting ir this is my first plasma.
O and Halimali where did you get your settingsn from to get your pic to look like that

Pretty sure she/he wink.gif used these http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467675/f8500-recommended-settings-thread/150#post_23308141

Don't forget to wear white gloves on install day wink.gif
post #7345 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdjocp View Post

okay guys i finally made the exchange from my 65hx950 to the 64f8500 the sammy comes in on monday are there any tips suggestion you guys can give me to look out for when i get it set up etc.. thanks in advance
how to be pro active in not getting ir this is my first plasma.
O and Halimali where did you get your settingsn from to get your pic to look like that

Hello and congratulations on your exchange. This is my first plasma too and don't worry about IR. I personally have not seen anything yet. Not a hint of IR.
Just avoid black bars for the first 100 - 200 hours.

The settings I got were done by a very active member here Pie. There is another thread about F8500 settings and you will see the link of the settings in his signature. The only thing I changed from his setting was the contrast. The pictures I have posted are with contrast at 60 (just being cautious for the first 100 hours). So just imagine how the pic quality looks under higher contrast.
post #7346 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

The pictures I have posted are with contrast at 60 (just being cautious for the first 100 hours). So just imagine how the pic quality looks under higher contrast.

So why don't you turn Contrast up to 90 and see for yourself? I told you earlier that doing that will in no way damage your display.

Incidentally, I'll be calibrating an F8500 next week and will be comparing Pie's latest settings to factory settings before hand as I promised him a while back.
post #7347 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

I did that too. I changed HDMI Control to ON, then turned on the ARC option. It didn't work
man that should work TV input HDMI 3 ARC high speed HDMI Cable conected to AVR and the HDMI controler set to ON your AVR should switch when you start smart hub on my AVR ONKYO 818 it switches to TV/CD Then when i exit it goes back to what ever scource i was watching before like it switches right back to CBL/SAT. I hope someone can help you it's probably something simple
post #7348 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Incidentally, I'll be calibrating an F8500 next week and will be comparing Pie's latest settings to factory settings before hand as I promised him a while back.
I'm looking forward to that smile.gif
Very interested to see how close the sets are in basic settings, even between sizes. I know 10p and colorspace will be out a bit. 2p should be okay I think.
I pushed my contrast to the max (94) before I saw clipping (0-255) so I'd really like to see what you see there.

I watched TDK last night (new purchase) and man-o-man, does that flick have bright and dark extremes, wow.
Is that reference grade? Seems to me to be pushing limits smile.gif

It highlighted the fact that the 45fL for dim room movie is a little too much IMO.
I think I'm going to try a high 30's-40fL for movies at night.
The 45fL I have is perfect for the family for day time movies and regular TV, it's just I want something less eyestrainy for night time movie watching.

Also, my next mini project is 3D. How in heck do I calibrate that?
I don't think my meter can work with the lens of a pair of glasses hanging over it biggrin.gif
Just a crap shoot? Make cell a bit higher?


Questions questions....
Trial and error...
Lots of assistance from kind folks here....
post #7349 of 11478
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

You can estimate it:

((Average power draw in watts of calibrated plasma - LED) * (Average hours watched per day) * 30) / 1000 = kWh/mo increase
$/kWh * kWh/mo = $/mo increase

Just for fun, assume the average power draw increase is 200 W, you watch 5 hours/day, and a kWh is billed at $.10 (mine is actually about 9 cents, so that's not far off). Then:

200*5*30/1000 = 30 kWh/mo extra compared to LED
$.10*30 = $3/mo extra

Since you're watching 150 hours/mo, ($3/mo / 150 hrs/mo) = $.02/hour extra or 2 pennies per hour penalty for watching plasma. To be really accurate, you might need to account for running the A/C a little more in summer and the heater a little less in winter. biggrin.gif

I don't know what the average power draw of a calibrated 64F8500 vs your 60" LED is, but I would guess the difference would not be less than 200W and not more than 400W, so figure $3-$6/mo extra for this usage pattern and energy rate.
That was a complicated process, I was going to say as long as you are not in CA, you would be about $5 per month........ wink.gif
post #7350 of 11478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post



As to your observations, I know you saw what you saw, but I guess what confuses me though is at the shootout, in a totally darkened room, almost all of us saw the differences in black levels as quite minor and not of any great magnitude. For 95% of the material, it was essentially indistinguishable.

Here's the other odd thing. I watched TDK last night to look specifically for the issue with the top & bottom crop bars. I saw no fluctuations in the brightness. I even cupped my hands over the screen adjacent to the bars to give me better sheltering from the lit portions of the screen. I still saw no fluctuations. Of course when you do this, you can see the bars are not totally dark, but when you go back to your viewing distance, the bars pretty much disappear. So I can't figure out what's going on with your unit and the fact that almost nobody else, Air excluded, has mentioned it, I can't help but wonder if there isn't sample to sample variation. Of course I wouldn't rule out sensitivity to this issue either, but I don't think that's likely based on what I saw last night.

Ken, this is what is puzzling to me.

I am sometimes am thinking *something* must be off somewhere in the chain because the black level differences (VT60 vs F8500) I am seeing even with the Oppo logo on the black screen are quite notable. Everyone said the blacks were so close at the Shootout. Even the calibrators rated the VT60 9.2 vs 8.5 for the F8500 which is pretty close....but I feel I am seeing a bigger difference than that.

I spent more time last night (didn't get to bed until 3 am) with both displays.

The only thing I see that is a bit curious on the F8500 is the HDMI Black Level. It's always grayed out. When I had no video signal going to the display, it's on Low. When I run a signal it switches to Medium. However, I can never control it.

All of my other settings are as follows:

Movie
Warm 1 or 2
Contrast 90 (sometimes less if I boost up cell light...experimenting)
Cell Light 13 (sometimes less or more as I experiment)
Brightness 48
Gamma -1
Sharpness 0
Every else pretty much at default
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