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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 252

post #7531 of 11444
Yes, a biased lighting will work wonders. I too noticed the amount of flickers on the F8500, the VT60, and the ST60 in a dark room, but I was rather glad because I love flickers, but I also know I can alleviate them with biased lighting. As much as I love my Sony BVM CRT, eyestrain can be a concern.

I really don't understand the plasma dithering part though...Sure, the F8500 and the ST60 had faint dithering in comparison with the VT60 (I'm really picking hairs...) , but against a F8000? The F8500's sharper, (there, I said it! Yes, even superior to ANY LCDs I've ever seen) more detailed, and more saturated color simply clobbers the F8000. It's actually one of the cleanest looking TV I've ever seen, Kuros included.
Edited by KOF - 5/27/13 at 1:44am
post #7532 of 11444
No firmware yet here in europe for the pops! Whats going on samsung?
post #7533 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Wow, edgeh20, sounds like we just underwent an equitable forum owner exchange (one regained, one lost). wink.gif You might want to try some bias lighting since eye strain has raised its ugly head. I see you're also an LCD convert....maybe it's the behavior of the phosphors to which you're unaccustomed.

Haha sounds like it indeed. I'd love to be one of these happy owners, but I can't help what my eyes see. I'm definitely going to get some bias lighting, it seems beneficial for any display (*begins searching for the best value bias light*). All I want is to be completely immersed into what I'm watching, but right now I feel like there is a roadblock between me and the immersion. And it's whatever is causing my eyes to strain. Instead of sitting back enjoying myself, I'm almost constantly aware that I'm straining to see what's going on in the movie. For whatever it's worth, I think I'm going to give the Panny a try before I give up on plasma altogether and go back to the darkside (LED) eek.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Yes, a biased lighting will work wonders. I too noticed the amount of flickers on the F8500, the VT60, and the ST60 in a dark room, but I was rather glad because I love flickers, but I also know I can alleviate them with biased lighting. As much as I love my Sony BVM CRT, eyestrain can be a concern.

I wish I could love the flickers, because I sure do love the blacks.
post #7534 of 11444
UK has just had FW 1102.2 drop this morning, USA is on 1103.1, did the US have 1102 before 1103? I think there was a couple in quick succession. This 1102.2 has also been released for the F8000 LEDs, sounds like it's just a generic one rather than the one to fix the pops
post #7535 of 11444
Can anyone please test the new eu firmware? Does it fix the pops?
post #7536 of 11444
Nevermind. Just did the update. Its v1102. Pops are still there in hockey, and skateboard games in espn hd america. Waiting for the next firmware...
post #7537 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

UK has just had FW 1102.2 drop this morning, USA is on 1103.1, did the US have 1102 before 1103? I think there was a couple in quick succession. This 1102.2 has also been released for the F8000 LEDs, sounds like it's just a generic one rather than the one to fix the pops

Trying to remember back, I believe there was a 1102, but cant be for sure, since EU and NA firmwares go by a different naming convention its hard to match them up.....
post #7538 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

No firmware yet here in europe for the pops! Whats going on samsung?

Since this is an NA based forum, you probably wont get many answers wink.gif I do feel for those in the EU stil lwaiting for the firmware update. I suggest continuing to reach out to Samsung EU to keep the issue fresh...
post #7539 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

I think I must say goodbye to my F8500. It's not because of the buzzing, although that is pretty bad in my setup. It's because when I turn off the lights to watch a bluray, my eyes start getting super fatigued about 15 minutes in. I find myself trying to focus on the screen, and it being a task, because it's almost as if it's not there. It's there and it's not, like the entire picture isn't solid. Not really a flicker, but almost a flicker. That's the best I can describe it. I remember having a 60" LED that I returned and watching that in the dark was never an issue. I've messed around with cell light, contrast, and brightness. Right now I'm at 10, 65, and 42, and I'm watching a dark movie called the Fountain and my eyes are killing me. I though this is something I would get used to, but with only having a 15 day return period from BB, I don't have much time.

It really bums me out, because the uniformity, colors, and clarity are the best I've seen. It makes Uverse look better than I've ever seen it.

I was going to try the ST60 next, since it's almost as good as the VT60 and since the ZT60 is out of my budget. But will this eye strain be present on that display too, is this the plasma technology itself that bothers me?

If so, I wouldn't know what to get next, I'd really hate to go back to LED(flashlighting/uniformity problems), since I love watching movies in the dark. Sounds like I would be screwed until OLED gets here.

edge you may be part of the small population that is sensitive to flicker on Plasmas....I would suggest biased lighting, but even that may not help.....Have you tried adjusting the "Film Mode" ? There are a number of threads discussing this if you do a google search as well. You may just be better suited with an LCD....
post #7540 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Did you at least get an HDMI splitter so that you could eliminate any source discrepancies? If not, that probably doesn't matter since it sounds like the sets performed as expected.
The Samsung was running off a standalone bluray player. The zt was running off a htpc with bluray. Jriver using madvr is used on that machine.
post #7541 of 11444
Quote:
I've messed around with cell light, contrast, and brightness. Right now I'm at 10, 65, and 42, and I'm watching a dark movie called the Fountain and my eyes are killing me.
I tried setting my 8500 to your mentioned cl, contrast, and brightness values. It's just too brutal!! My eyes are straining to see detail. It's like my picture has a veil covering it. I'd be returning my tv if this is the best it could look. You could never get a properly calibrated tv with your numbers. I'm going back to my previous settings(16,93,48)....
post #7542 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

I just watched the movie pitch black. You dont know what your missing

We've all seen it and all chose the 8500. Any reason you continue to troll here? Ba bye.
post #7543 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Hallelujah!! I am finally happy! The F8500 display is awesome.

You've learned there is more to PQ than just the absolute best black levels. wink.gif

The dynamic range, sharpness, excellent black levels and well-controlled ABL of the 8500 is what attracted me too. Like you, I didn't pull the trigger until the ZT60 was out and I was able to see it at 2 locations. Although very good, I feel the 8500 is a better all-around performer. I just feel the dynamic range, or lack thereof, of the ZT/VT60 would bug me a lot more than the slightly better black levels of the VT/ZT. With the 2013 ZT & VT being dimmer than last year's VT, for me I'd notice it.

I still find it amusing how some simply dismiss the 8500 based on its black levels. Yet here you have in the 8500, a panel that would have been the black level class leader in 2012, slightly bettering the VT50 that was raved about throughout 2012 for its outstanding black levels. In 2013 we find the 8500 is beaten out, marginally, by the VT/ZT. For most material you'll never notice the difference. For the darkest material, in the darkest rooms, you would probably notice the slight differences as we did at the shootout. But for all the other material, I give the nod to the 8500. smile.gif
post #7544 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Yah. Thanks for your help vinnie! It was mainly the brightness and then the sharpness. I had the same bluray playing on both sets next to each other and I kept looking back and forth through the entire The Dark Knight.

I think the blacks are close enough where I don't put too much thought into it, but the whites are noticeable.

An example is during the scene where Fox and Wayne are walking towards the camera in Fox's hangar and most of the frame is the ceiling lights, on the zt the lights became dimmer and I couldn't see as much detail in the faces as on the F8500 because the zt was too dark.

Maybe with time I will place more emphasis on blacks. I am new to all this so take it with a grain of salt.

And you'll find so many scenes exactly like you describe. I can't tell you how many people are unaware of the influence of ABL. I think it's impact is grossly underestimated by many. The better dynamics as the result of the better controlled ABL will play to the 8500 in so many scenes. You have the fortunate ability to do an A/B in a relatively controlled environment. I've done the same thing at retailers and a better controlled A/B with the VT50.
post #7545 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

I think I must say goodbye to my F8500. It's not because of the buzzing, although that is pretty bad in my setup. It's because when I turn off the lights to watch a bluray, my eyes start getting super fatigued about 15 minutes in. I find myself trying to focus on the screen, and it being a task, because it's almost as if it's not there. It's there and it's not, like the entire picture isn't solid. Not really a flicker, but almost a flicker. That's the best I can describe it. I remember having a 60" LED that I returned and watching that in the dark was never an issue. I've messed around with cell light, contrast, and brightness. Right now I'm at 10, 65, and 42, and I'm watching a dark movie called the Fountain and my eyes are killing me. I though this is something I would get used to, but with only having a 15 day return period from BB, I don't have much time.

It really bums me out, because the uniformity, colors, and clarity are the best I've seen. It makes Uverse look better than I've ever seen it.

I was going to try the ST60 next, since it's almost as good as the VT60 and since the ZT60 is out of my budget. But will this eye strain be present on that display too, is this the plasma technology itself that bothers me?

If so, I wouldn't know what to get next, I'd really hate to go back to LED(flashlighting/uniformity problems), since I love watching movies in the dark. Sounds like I would be screwed until OLED gets here.

I wonder if it really isn't the flicker that's bothering you. This is another disadvantage of plasmas relative to LED. With my Elite, I get zero flicker but with every plasma I've seen or owned, there is a certain amount of flicker when the screen gets bright. I can't say I've noticed much of a difference in this area between panels from different manufacturers. My Kuro, Fujitsus and Samsungs seem to have it to the same degree.

I think the suggestions for bias lighting is a good one.

Fortunately for me, I'm used to it with my plasma history and it doesn't bug me like it does you.
post #7546 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

That's why I thought as well, and no blooming finally. biggrin.gif Although the 55LHX is better than most backlit LED sets at handling blooming. I'm very curious how the black levels will compare.
I think you will be very happy with the 8500, as you know I've had he 55lhx in the past. although it was a great display mainly in contrast/black levels, and being an ips panel didn't hurt either.(viewing area wise). I still think overall the 8500 is much better. as you know the two big issues with the lhx is terrible amount of DSE, and the blooming control isn't the best.
post #7547 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by polakis View Post

No firmware yet here in europe for the pops! Whats going on samsung?

I have the Euro version with 1004 firmware. I have not seen even one brightness pop. If it appears in hockey only I do not see hockey. However I have not seen it while watching movies and TV shows
post #7548 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I wonder if it really isn't the flicker that's bothering you. This is another disadvantage of plasmas relative to LED. With my Elite, I get zero flicker but with every plasma I've seen or owned, there is a certain amount of flicker when the screen gets bright. I can't say I've noticed much of a difference in this area between panels from different manufacturers. My Kuro, Fujitsus and Samsungs seem to have it to the same degree.

I think the suggestions for bias lighting is a good one.

Fortunately for me, I'm used to it with my plasma history and it doesn't bug me like it does you.
i agree i have not gotten my f8500 yet but i have bias lighting on buth my plasma TV's and i think it really helps with eye fatigue plus i think it makes colors and blacks appear fuller and blacker IMHO
post #7549 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bama29 View Post

crmmoore,

There is a pretty good guide for setup of your PS3 over at the Home Theater Shack Forum and can be located here.

Michael

Thanks, this is great.
post #7550 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Which tv has the best black levels this year
mine is when its off man is it black can't see a darn thing
biggrin.gif
post #7551 of 11444
I have a general question
I have read contradictory reports about black level as well as the colors of plasma TVs, need some thoughts here.
Some say that with time and more watching hours plasma's black and colors get better and more rich.

While others say that with time the blacks and colors will fade and get worse.

Don't know really who to believe.
post #7552 of 11444
I have a general question
I have read contradictory reports about black level as well as the colors of plasma TVs, need some thoughts here.
Some say that with time and more watching hours plasma's black and colors get better and more rich.

While others say that with time the blacks and colors will fade and get worse.

Don't know really who to believe.
post #7553 of 11444
Neither is true.
post #7554 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

I just watched the movie pitch black. You dont know what your missing

We've all seen it and all chose the 8500. Any reason you continue to troll here? Ba bye.
Those who reply confirm his power. Get it? wink.gif
post #7555 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

I have a general question
I have read contradictory reports about black level as well as the colors of plasma TVs, need some thoughts here.
Some say that with time and more watching hours plasma's black and colors get better and more rich.

While others say that with time the blacks and colors will fade and get worse.

Don't know really who to believe.

Well after use the plasma matures and will stabilize. Which is why calibrators normally won't calibrate until after you have had some time on the panel so when they mature it won't throw everything off. I think it will ultimately depend on how the manufacture drives their panels. If they rise such as the black levels in previous panasonic models that is a defect. That shouldn't happen especially with the amount of hours it would occur in. You numbers will shift that is just how it is over time which is why we recalibrate after so long.
post #7556 of 11444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post

Well after use the plasma matures and will stabilize. Which is why calibrators normally won't calibrate until after you have had some time on the panel so when they mature it won't throw everything off. I think it will ultimately depend on how the manufacture drives their panels. If they rise such as the black levels in previous panasonic models that is a defect. That shouldn't happen especially with the amount of hours it would occur in. You numbers will shift that is just how it is over time which is why we recalibrate after so long.

Thanks for clarifying that
post #7557 of 11444
After I set the HDMI color under my Oppo player to RGB PC I can use HDMI Black Level to low when playing blurays and DVDs. Improves the blacks in a big way. Very inky
post #7558 of 11444
Make sure its not crushing your blacks. You don't want to loose detail
post #7559 of 11444
You are most probably crushing black.
post #7560 of 11444
There is some detail loss, not huge but worth it
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