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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 287

post #8581 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by philwojo View Post

Do you have the TV set to use external speakers?

I had to unplug the unit to do an internal reset and then reinstall Playbar over the wireless network. Seems ok for now. Thanks
post #8582 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

Well its official now. Just got word they are in. Since no official thread was started I thought I would do the honors. Chad will be here soon to do his things, pics to come asap !!
.



Review: Samsung PN-64F8500 plasma


When I arrived at Cleveland Plasma to check out this latest beauty from Samsung, Chris could barely contain himself as he told me of the excitement the F8500 has been generating online. Big improvements over last year's E series were expected, and specifics were just beginning to trickle in. I was appreciative of Samsung's previous lines, though I admit feeling somewhat let down at the E series' limited brightness and lack of substantial improvement over the D series. Chris said it looked like the F series was going to change all that, and he was right on the money.

This is an attractive TV, with a narrow pewter bezel, slim profile, and a tiny, top mounted Skype camera. The remote is a small but solid-feeling clickable touchpad device.

The screen soaks up ambient light very well. With very bright ceiling lights on, reflections were dark and well suppressed. I could see myself looking at the screen with some effort, but my reflection appeared to be a mostly featureless silhouette.

I could hear a small amount of buzzing very close to the screen, though by about a 6 foot distance the whirring of a Blu Ray player masked the slight buzzing with most content. Some bright test patterns, like the ANSI checkerboard pattern, generated a little more buzzing that was audible from 8 or 9 feet. This can vary from one set to the next, but it is safe to say it will not be an issue on this sample.

The viewing angle is perfect from side to side, and as long as you don't stand close to a F8500 that is on the floor you shouldn't be bothered by any dimming in the vertical direction.

Before calibration:

Standard

The F8500 initially defaults to Standard mode, which looked a bit etched and artificially enhanced. Pans had the uber-smooth soap opera feel, though at times motion broke up and appeared choppy. Despite the fact that still images looked excessively grainy, it appeared that strong noise reduction was at work with moving images, making them smoother but somewhat smeared. The picture lacked stability, with brightness pumping and flashing apparent at times. Colors were vibrant and fairly pleasing, though not quite lifelike and natural. Whites appeared bright, bluish, and somewhat flat; and brightly lit faces were overexposed and suffered from a caked on makeup look. Deep blacks and fairly good shadow detail hinted of good things to come, but this display's as-delivered state hardly puts it's best foot forward.

Relax

Relax was quite similar to Standard, though without the overexposed look. Colors popped and skin tones were not as offensive as one might expect, though the overall look was more subdued and “doctored” than realistic.

Movie

Colors, which were respectable in the previous modes, improved quite a bit by switching over to Movie mode. They appeared much more realistic, though perhaps a bit pale in overall balance. In addition, the picture gained brightness and pop, and realism took a leap forward. However, depth could be a bit lacking, and whites had a bit of an off-white or greenish tinge. At times, I thought I glimpsed hints of the dirty screen effect, in which bright panning objects appeared smudged or dirty until they stop moving. Though to a much smaller degree than in the two previous modes, graininess with still images and glazed over motion were visible. Stability, contrast, and shadow detail were impressive. It appeared that Movie mode has some great qualities, though it was not quite seductively rich or lifelike yet.

Dynamic

Ugh... With it's cartoonish colors and gaudy whites, Dynamic wore thin in a hurry. However, it was bright and punchy, which will appeal to some at least in the short term.

Tweaks

A few simple things can be done by anyone to bring out significantly more performance in Movie mode. Turning sharpness down to half or less of it's starting position will reduce graininess, and with 1080 HD sources changing the Picture Size from 16:9 to Screen Fit will improve sharpness and eliminate overscan. In Picture options, changing Color Tone from Warm2 to Warm1 alleviates the off white and greenish tinge, and turning off the other various “enhancements” found there will increase the accuracy of the picture. Finally, in the advanced settings, reducing gamma to -1 eliminated a slightly flat sensation. Later, after examining the measurements, I was surprised at this since gamma was already quite high, but I did feel it made an improvement short of a more complete calibration with the aid of test equipment. After making these simple changes, without the aid of test patterns of any kind, the F8500's performance improved significantly. Thus configured and viewed in a light controlled room, the F8500 is a real head turner.

Black levels

The richness of blacks and contrast is arguably the toughest test for any display, and traditionally a good plasma will outperform a conventional LED in that regard. While last year's E series took a timid step forward, there is no doubt the F8500's blacks take a more confident leap ahead. In Movie mode's picture options, a selection called Black optimizer does seem to make the blacks darker when set to Dark room. In that setting, the black level, which appeared excellent before, improved even further; coaxing what appears to be state of the art black level performance out of the F8500. Do the blacks appear illuminated with the lights out in the Dark room setting? Yes; not even the last run of Elite Kuros could claim otherwise. However, the F8500 is so good that nearly any significant picture content made the blacks appear extremely or even totally devoid of light, which is a significant accomplishment. Bright objects appear to come out of a velvety, inky black background. However, the extra darkness comes at the price of stability. Later testing revealed that Dark room caused dynamic fluctuation of the blacks, so it will be a judgment call on whether to take advantage of that circuitry.

Black levels were measured with a C6 meter profiled with a Jeti 1211 reference spectro to the F8500.

Black level measured .0069 fL with Black optimizer off and a 1080P/60 source. With the Black optimizer set to Dark room or Auto, it measured .0025 fL. With 1080P/24 and cinema smooth on, black level was .0072/.0025 fL, which is not significantly different. With Black Optimizer set to either auto or Dark room, Movie mode's modified ANSI contrast ratio was 7436:1, at 34.95/.0047 fL. That was further evidence of some black level floating, as the black level on a dark screen was significantly lower than black level of the checkerboard. Because of this fluctuating black level in the Dark room setting, I made the decision to do the calibration in Movie mode with the Black optimizer off. As calibrated, with Black optimizer off, the modified ANSI contrast ratio measured 6034:1, at 38.62/.0064 fL.

Calibration

After going into the service menu, I opened up the Cal-Day and Cal-Night modes, which are normally not present in the TV's menu. In a departure from previous Samsungs, these modes, before calibration, produced one of the worst, most peculiar pictures I've seen yet on a modern plasma. After resetting some curiously strange settings, things looked much, much better.

The F8500 is a light output heavyweight, breaking records in my experience for large plasmas. Light output could have been as high as 58 fL after calibration in Movie mode, though I backed that down to about 51 fL after viewing some program material. Cal-Day could be calibrated up to an astonishing 84.1 fL, but otherwise behaved similarly to Movie mode once the proper groundwork was laid. The light output with a 100% full white screen was a super strong 23.4 fL. Cal-Day could reach well into the 40's with the ANSI checkerboard pattern, which is a record in my experience. These are wonderful numbers for hockey fans, because the F8500 will maintain brightness better when showing a bright rink than any other plasma I know of. It's also great news for those who have brighter rooms, because the F8500 will remain punchy when other plasmas begin to look bland.

Calibration of Movie mode was straightforward, until I got to the CMS adjustment. In the past year, thanks to advances in software capability, I've transitioned from calibrating only fully saturated colors to focusing more on 75% saturations at 75% luminance, which gives a better approximation of real world picture content. With the F8500, it's just not possible to accurately calibrate the CMS at 75% saturation; it's color gamut shrinks as saturation is reduced. I ended up targeting somewhere in between the old standard of 100% saturation/75% luminance and 75% saturation/75% luminance. What I got was a perfectly acceptable compromise, with all color saturation delta errors below about 2, but with slightly pale shades below full purity.

Unlike the E series, the F8500 goes blue the more load is placed on the ABL circuitry by progressively larger measurement windows. This is subjectively more pleasing than the more earthy tone the E series exhibited with bright scenes. In my estimation, good window sizes to use for calibration seem to be either 5% conventional windows or approximately 18% APL windows.

With a 1080P/24 signal and Cinema Smooth engaged, my meter synced at around 96 Hz.

Cinema Smooth caused a significant shift in gamma and white balance, adding an average of 3 dE to the grayscale run. Because of this, it may be desirable to either send a Blu Ray signal to a dedicated input, put up with some motion judder by leaving Cinema Smooth off if you're not much of a movie watcher, or calibrate with Cinema Smooth on and let TV content be a bit less accurate.

After calibration:

How does the F8500 look after all the tweaks have been made? Majestic, with bright scenes oodling pop and excitement like I've never seen on a large plasma. It's textures are smooth, devoid of graininess. Colors look very lifelike, but on the polite side of accurate. Blacks and contrast are excellent, though not a substitute for the late, great Kuro king. The black bars are just visible with letterbox movies, but only in a dark room. Because of the way bright objects change our perception, the bars tend to be more visible with dark movie scenes than bright ones. Shadow detail is superb, looking correct in intensity and neutral in color. Resolution and sharpness are as good as I've seen.

I've calibrated many Panasonic 65VT50s, with the last one being just a couple of days ago. Though I did not have one available for a side by side comparison, I know it extremely well and can give impressions of how it and the F8500 compare.

Compared to the VT50 calibrated in the normal fashion of ISF Day using mid panel brightness, the F8500 is punchier in bright scenes. It is also a bit smoother, especially up close. The VT50 has slightly superior color accuracy, though it looks a bit more “hot” and colored with skin tones than the F8500's more relaxed color palette. If you are easily offended by the sunburnt look skin tones have on many displays, the F8500's less saturated but still seductive colors will be like a soothing balm on your eyes. The VT50's blacks are superior, though subjectively they appear extremely close. Dark movie scenes in dark rooms may show the VT50's slightly superior blacks. Motion quality will depend on if you use Cinema Smooth or not, but I prefer the VT50's motion overall. The F8500's edge in brightness makes it superior in slightly brighter rooms or if you just like brighter images.

The F8500 is a winner, with special appeal to lovers of bright and punchy images. It's color was very natural and easy on the eyes, and over all it's performance keeps pace with the very best.

Samsung 64F8500 movie.pdf 785k .pdf file

Chad B
.

Nice review Chad B,

Could you please post your calibration settings. I would be interested in seeing them. I am sure others folks would be as well. Thank you.
post #8583 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by badabing View Post


Nice review Chad B,

Could you please post your calibration settings. I would be interested in seeing them. I am sure others folks would be as well. Thank you.
I don't speak for Chad B, but I can tell you what I think from my perspective.

The final settings in a calibrated display, moved to a different display, will not produce the same results. To ask a professional calibrator to provide his settings will inevitably cause people to misunderstand the results. Who's going to spend full time correcting misunderstandings caused by moving settings from the calibrated set to a different set? smile.gif
post #8584 of 11457
The Samsung tech is here now fixing my magenta vertical line issue. It's a pain seeing my baby get disassembled, hopefully it's all good when he reassembles it.
post #8585 of 11457
^ Best of luck Slickman. Let us know how she feels after the doctor leaves.
post #8586 of 11457
My toddler son wants to watch a show streamed from netflix, however, the aspect ratio is 4:3. I went into Picture menu however the Picture Size sub-menu is not highlighted, hence I can't select it to change the pic size. Any idea why the picture size menu is not highlighted. The set has less than 100 hours on it, thus I want to be careful.

Is there a way I can zoom / stretch the picture to fit screen.

Thanks
post #8587 of 11457
So the Samsung tech took about 15 minutes to disassemble my F8500, and another 15 to put the new panel in. My F8500 looks great now and I think the picture is even better than before. biggrin.gif
post #8588 of 11457
Great news Slickman! We're all happy for you. Enjoy!
post #8589 of 11457
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

I don't speak for Chad B, but I can tell you what I think from my perspective.

The final settings in a calibrated display, moved to a different display, will not produce the same results. To ask a professional calibrator to provide his settings will inevitably cause people to misunderstand the results. Who's going to spend full time correcting misunderstandings caused by moving settings from the calibrated set to a different set? smile.gif
Could not have said it better wink.gif
post #8590 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

So the Samsung tech took about 15 minutes to disassemble my F8500, and another 15 to put the new panel in. My F8500 looks great now and I think the picture is even better than before. biggrin.gif

Not sure if you had any buzzing at all but would interested if you notice any change with the new panel installed.
post #8591 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

So the Samsung tech took about 15 minutes to disassemble my F8500, and another 15 to put the new panel in. My F8500 looks great now and I think the picture is even better than before. biggrin.gif
Always nice to hear great news!!! thx for keeping us updated smile.gif
post #8592 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickman View Post

So the Samsung tech took about 15 minutes to disassemble my F8500, and another 15 to put the new panel in. My F8500 looks great now and I think the picture is even better than before. biggrin.gif


Great..good luck with your new panel smile.gif
post #8593 of 11457
To answer the question about buzzing, I didn't notice any buzzing from my old panel or the new panel.
post #8594 of 11457
Ordered my 51f8500 today.

biggrin.gif

Delivered next wednesday.
post #8595 of 11457
Got mine 3 days ago, it's incredible! I've never had 64in tv or a plasma but with all the edge lit bleed I kept reading about I simply had to try the plasma and I'm glad I went this route because the picture is stunning and it's not even calibrated yet. smile.gif I have run into one snag that some may find a cure for by simply hard wiring the tv but I have no way to hardwire mine, streaming keeps loading constantly and I'm on a 50mg line, the max I can get unless I go business class confused.gif The cable guy updated all the wires which improved overall picture, sound, and reception on both cable and internet, but the tv continues to choke even though the modem/router is only two rooms away. The guy from Time Warner suggested using repeaters so I came here to see if anyone could enlighten me on repeaters, any issues anyone else is having with wifi on this set, or maybe a place in the tv that needs a setting tweak. This streaming junkie is not loving the great features of this tv with this poor wifi reception! eek.gif
post #8596 of 11457
Did you set the tv to zoom before going to Netflix? I notice that option is not available when streaming but rather in live tv. I also had to adjust picture on set top simply to avoid the same problem you're trying to avoid "burn in" before 100 hours, though I read the technology today would likely not have this problem. Try setting it to zoom on tv mode in both tv and set top if you're using one if "burn in" is your concern. Picture may be less than great if the content your child wants to watch is 480p on Netflix. Hope this helps. smile.gif
post #8597 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooney74 View Post

My toddler son wants to watch a show streamed from netflix, however, the aspect ratio is 4:3. I went into Picture menu however the Picture Size sub-menu is not highlighted, hence I can't select it to change the pic size. Any idea why the picture size menu is not highlighted. The set has less than 100 hours on it, thus I want to be careful.

Is there a way I can zoom / stretch the picture to fit screen.

Thanks

Did you set the tv to zoom before going to Netflix? I notice that option is not available when streaming but rather in live tv. I also had to adjust picture on set top simply to avoid the same problem you're trying to avoid "burn in" before 100 hours, though I read the technology today would likely not have this problem. Try setting it to zoom on tv mode in both tv and set top if you're using one if "burn in" is your concern. Picture may be less than great if the content your child wants to watch is 480p on Netflix. Hope this helps. smile.gif
post #8598 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDancerXTC View Post

Got mine 3 days ago, it's incredible! I've never had 64in tv or a plasma but with all the edge lit bleed I kept reading about I simply had to try the plasma and I'm glad I went this route because the picture is stunning and it's not even calibrated yet. smile.gif I have run into one snag that some may find a cure for by simply hard wiring the tv but I have no way to hardwire mine, streaming keeps loading constantly and I'm on a 50mg line, the max I can get unless I go business class confused.gif The cable guy updated all the wires which improved overall picture, sound, and reception on both cable and internet, but the tv continues to choke even though the modem/router is only two rooms away. The guy from Time Warner suggested using repeaters so I came here to see if anyone could enlighten me on repeaters, any issues anyone else is having with wifi on this set, or maybe a place in the tv that needs a setting tweak. This streaming junkie is not loving the great features of this tv with this poor wifi reception! eek.gif

Have you tried using another wireless device in the same space as the 8500? This would verify if there isn't some odd dead spot there. I'd also try rebooting the router just to be sure everything is OK. I have a Galaxy Tab 3 and I noticed an initial slow speed via wireless. Once I rebooted my modem and the tablet, for whatever reason, the speed jumped up on my Tab exponentially and has been great since.
post #8599 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowDancerXTC View Post

Got mine 3 days ago, it's incredible! I've never had 64in tv or a plasma but with all the edge lit bleed I kept reading about I simply had to try the plasma and I'm glad I went this route because the picture is stunning and it's not even calibrated yet. smile.gif I have run into one snag that some may find a cure for by simply hard wiring the tv but I have no way to hardwire mine, streaming keeps loading constantly and I'm on a 50mg line, the max I can get unless I go business class confused.gif The cable guy updated all the wires which improved overall picture, sound, and reception on both cable and internet, but the tv continues to choke even though the modem/router is only two rooms away. The guy from Time Warner suggested using repeaters so I came here to see if anyone could enlighten me on repeaters, any issues anyone else is having with wifi on this set, or maybe a place in the tv that needs a setting tweak. This streaming junkie is not loving the great features of this tv with this poor wifi reception! eek.gif

Check your connection speed at the TV by opening the web browser and going to speedtest.net. You can also check it from a PC for comparison. Speedtest is showing about 14 Mbps at my TV and I'm streaming HD Amazon Prime movies perfectly.

If your speed at the TV is slow it's a process of elimination. Verify the speed plugged in to the router, then wireless to a PC if possible.
post #8600 of 11457
How may of you guys watch movies on your F8500 in pitch dark/black room? In "movie mode", will any bright image be too bright to the eyes in the dark room?
post #8601 of 11457
has anyone had an issue with the voice and gesture control activating will watching movies while they have been set to off in the menu,also when turning the set on the previous picture settings are going back to default have had the 64" for around 2 months and not a problem till l updated the firmware l am in aust and the update we have is 1105.4 any ideas anyone.
post #8602 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

How may of you guys watch movies on your F8500 in pitch dark/black room? In "movie mode", will any bright image be too bright to the eyes in the dark room?

I watch almost all the time in the dark and have no issues with bright scenes. What are your settings? There probably is also a range of tastes as to what constitutes 'too bright', assuming we're talking about a properly calibrated display.
post #8603 of 11457
Does anyone having the Cyberbike? How is it?
post #8604 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

How may of you guys watch movies on your F8500 in pitch dark/black room? In "movie mode", will any bright image be too bright to the eyes in the dark room?

I was concerned about the same question before I got my 8500, since brightness is such a key feature. But I do watch in movie mode in a dark room and it's excellent. The cell adjustment allows you to set the overall brightness level to suit your eyes, and combined with the contrast and brightness settings allows a wide range of adjustment. I started with a fairly low cell but now prefer it at 19 (max is 20). Also, you can always use a bias light of whatever brightness you need to moderate the effective brightness. I would say don't worry, you'll be happy.
Edited by abalone - 7/28/13 at 12:20pm
post #8605 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooney74 View Post

My toddler son wants to watch a show streamed from netflix, however, the aspect ratio is 4:3. I went into Picture menu however the Picture Size sub-menu is not highlighted, hence I can't select it to change the pic size. Any idea why the picture size menu is not highlighted. The set has less than 100 hours on it, thus I want to be careful.

Is there a way I can zoom / stretch the picture to fit screen.

Thanks

Certain settings might be locked going through the smart hub, if thats what you're doing. Do you have any other source available that can stream netflix like a PS3 or XBox I would try that and see if it will allow you to adjust the picture size.
post #8606 of 11457
What kind of buzzing should I expect out of this when it's on and muted?

I'm just wondering because my D7000 has terrible directional buzzing. I want to know if I should not expect that when I get this one. That would be most ideal. Thanks!
post #8607 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannybee View Post

has anyone had an issue with the voice and gesture control activating will watching movies while they have been set to off in the menu,also when turning the set on the previous picture settings are going back to default have had the 64" for around 2 months and not a problem till l updated the firmware l am in aust and the update we have is 1105.4 any ideas anyone.

Yes, I did have this happen twice yesterday. Very strange.
post #8608 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

What kind of buzzing should I expect out of this when it's on and muted?

I'm just wondering because my D7000 has terrible directional buzzing. I want to know if I should not expect that when I get this one. That would be most ideal. Thanks!

Plasmas buzzing sound is not the only issue that causes noise, you also have fans in the back of the plasma cooling the unit down and those also cause noise. Your rooms Sound-Acoustics has a great deal lot to do with it as well, and of course how far above or below sea level you are. With Plasma display technology I always recommend to any new comer to be mindful of these issues when jumping in and to purchase your display from a company that has a good return policy. However if you've had good luck with Plasma displays in the past you're probably a safe bet unless something is terribly wrong with the fans or display itself. cool.gif
post #8609 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Plasmas buzzing sound is not the only issue that causes noise, you also have fans in the back of the plasma cooling the unit down and those also cause noise. Your rooms Sound-Acoustics has a great deal lot to do with it as well, and of course how far above or below sea level you are. With Plasma display technology I always recommend to any new comer to be mindful of these issues when jumping in and to purchase your display from a company that has a good return policy. However if you've had good luck with Plasma displays in the past you're probably a safe bet unless something is terribly wrong with the fans or display itself. cool.gif

I'm not a newcomer to plasmas. Like I said, I own a D7000.

Also, we're just replacing our rather old 720p Panny Viera downstairs. that one has light buzzing, but nothing recognizable/directional in the room that it's in. My D7000 upstairs is a nuisance, but one which I've come to ignore I suppose. Others, however, wouldn't ignore it.

Again, I had a bad experience with my particular plasma, but my sister and her husband also own a D7000 and have zero issues. I just wondered if the F8500's have had reports of buzzers as commonly as the sets from two years ago.
post #8610 of 11457
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadTech51 View Post

Plasmas buzzing sound is not the only issue that causes noise, you also have fans in the back of the plasma cooling the unit down and those also cause noise. Your rooms Sound-Acoustics has a great deal lot to do with it as well, and of course how far above or below sea level you are. With Plasma display technology I always recommend to any new comer to be mindful of these issues when jumping in and to purchase your display from a company that has a good return policy. However if you've had good luck with Plasma displays in the past you're probably a safe bet unless something is terribly wrong with the fans or display itself. cool.gif
The F8500 is fanless, so air/fan noise is one you can mark off the list of potential offenders when evaluating it.
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