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Netflix Plans to Stream 4K Within Two Years - Page 2

post #31 of 136
3/17/13 at 6:53pm
^^^They would if 4K was available and they didn't have access to it. If you are ok with no progress, you can always go enjoy your old black n white =^)
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post #32 of 136
3/17/13 at 7:25pm
not happening. the current netflix hd is crap

let alone do 99% of people have the speed for it.
Edited by WagBoss - 3/17/13 at 7:34pm
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post #33 of 136
3/17/13 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

I didn't see that offered when I was looking last night. Mark did I read your post on another thread correctly when you said we can't do Netflix HD on comcast?
Your ISP must he a part of the Netflix OCN, and you must be playing through a Netflix Super HD / 3d supported device. If your device is not supported "available in Super HD" will not be posted in the content description. On the flip side, if your device is supported, but your ISP is not a part of the OCN, "available in Super HD" will be posted in the content description, but it will stream in regular HD and not Super HD. Comcast is not OCN compliant.
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post #34 of 136
3/17/13 at 9:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

not happening. the current netflix hd is crap
That makes sense because you know, technology never gets better. Yay to my 14.4kbps internet connection! Oh wait...
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post #35 of 136
3/17/13 at 10:06pm
The real measure of whether something is 480p, 720p 1080p/2k, 4k, etc. should not the pixel dimensions of the decoded video. It is the resolution to which it has to be downscaled so that compression artifacts, when compared with a lossless encode at that lower resolution, are not perceptible to a trained eye in motion.

The real resolution of the "1080p" what I see on Netflix is usually somewhere between 480 and 720 depending on the scene. So maybe when they say they will be offering 4k, that really means 1080p.
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post #36 of 136
3/17/13 at 11:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

That makes sense because you know, technology never gets better. Yay to my 14.4kbps internet connection! Oh wait...

the entire united states is not getting new infrastructure in the next two years so 4k won't be able to be streamed to 90% of the population. The "1080p" netflix offers now isn't actually even 1080p quality. it's like stretched 720p at best.

it's nothing to do with advancing technology. it's basic hardware/wiring issues due to cost/distance.
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post #37 of 136
3/18/13 at 1:50am
They first need to increase more content and better movies in 5.1. Most movies are still in 2 channel...
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post #38 of 136
3/18/13 at 5:19am
In principle, having access to thousands of movies on line and watching them by streaming is a great idea. In practice, I've been extremely dissatisfied with both the AQ and PQ of movies that I have streamed from Netflix. When the AQ/PQ of streamed movies rivals that of Bluray discs, then I will stop renting physical media. IMHO, Netflix is a long way from making that happen over my Comcast cable.

Cal68
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post #39 of 136
3/18/13 at 5:41am
Having worked on software that encodes and decodes many media formats, I can say that netflix can deliver on streaming 4K content. The caveat is it may not look any better than what they deliver now. 4K is simply the pixel resolution and since whatever will be delivered will be compressed, they can use tricks to make the files smaller and still be 4K.

One trick I've used is to replace color ranges with single colors. For example every color with RGB values of 250 or higher are replaced with 253,253,253. Doing this can reduce the palette from 16.7 million colors to something much smaller and will result in much better compression. The problem is this will almost always introduce banding.
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post #40 of 136
3/18/13 at 8:48am
4K format nowadays is a joke, if not a lie. No one can see 4K from any player outside the TV itself. There is no standard way to deliver uncompressed video at enough framerate to the display. Current HDMI devices and high speed HDMI 1.4 cables supports up to 3840x2160 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz and only 4096x2160 24Hz. Not even 30Hz in full 4K. "4K" standard is not just resolution. The standard goes up to 120Hz. This is why I laugh a lot when all the brands say that their receivers support 4K. Yes 4K but at only 24Hz... and when this standard break into the home systems the standard won't be 24Hz. With HDMI 1.5 or 2.0 60Hz is going to be the standard and 120Hz will be the future HQ.

Regards
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post #41 of 136
3/18/13 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

the entire united states is not getting new infrastructure in the next two years so 4k won't be able to be streamed to 90% of the population. The "1080p" netflix offers now isn't actually even 1080p quality. it's like stretched 720p at best.

it's nothing to do with advancing technology. it's basic hardware/wiring issues due to cost/distance.
Just because not everybody can get it, doesn't mean that they won't/can't do it. That's like saying not everyone has a bluray player, so let's not release blurays yet.
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post #42 of 136
3/18/13 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

Just because not everybody can get it, doesn't mean that they won't/can't do it. That's like saying not everyone has a bluray player, so let's not release blurays yet.
Do you have a 4K UDTV ? If not then when do YOU plan to get one ? We are talking 4K here not Blu-ray movies that sell for $5 at Walmart or Blu-ray players that sell for $59. I will get a 4K UDTV when prices drop to what 1080p HDTVs sell for today but not any sooner.
Quote:
There are no standards
This is, perhaps the biggest problem with Ultra HD displays available right now/soon. HDMI 1.4, the current standard, allows for a maximum of 4,096x2,160 pixels at 24fps. Granted this is slightly higher than the 3,840x2,160 of the current crop of Ultra HD displays, but it is not enough to do 4K 3D. It's not enough to do higher frame rates, either, which may or may not come into play (though with computers, it certainly will). Rumors point toward HDMI 2.0 offering more bandwidth, so higher resolutions and frame rates can be transmitted over everyone's favorite cable, but that will require different transmitter and receiver chips. This won't be a software upgrade, so all the current Ultra HD displays are already obsolete. Remember, this isn't as simple as swapping out a new cable; the hardware in the TV won't be able to accept the higher data rates. I don't hear any manufacturer mentioning that upgrade path for their $20,000 televisions.

When there is a standard, who knows what it might have? Maybe they will improve some aspect of color (either in better color depth or in a wider color gamut or both). These Ultra HD displays won't be able to take advantage of that, either.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57566079-221/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/
Edited by jogiba - 3/18/13 at 11:34am
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post #43 of 136
3/18/13 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

Your ISP must he a part of the Netflix OCN, and you must be playing through a Netflix Super HD / 3d supported device. If your device is not supported "available in Super HD" will not be posted in the content description. On the flip side, if your device is supported, but your ISP is not a part of the OCN, "available in Super HD" will be posted in the content description, but it will stream in regular HD and not Super HD. Comcast is not OCN compliant.




Hi, I gotcha. From what Comcast hinted in a phone call with them I think there is something in the works soon. Netflix is getting left in the dust. I just tried Vudu last night and bought a movie for the first time and it was pretty good. I'll have to watch more movies on there to form a real opinion but I did like how it works. I also entered my first UV code through flixster and I really liked that.
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post #44 of 136
3/18/13 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Do you have a 4K UDTV ? If not then when do YOU plan to get one ? We are talking 4K here not Blu-ray movies that sell for $5 at Walmart or Blu-ray players that sell for $59. I will get a 4K UDTV when prices drop to what 1080p HDTVs sell for today but not any sooner.
You completely missed the point. I'm sure people were talking crazy about blurays when they first came out. How about 8 tracks? How about CDs? This same argument comes about every time there is talk about a new format. Embrace the change =^)
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post #45 of 136
3/18/13 at 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djPerfectTrip View Post

You completely missed the point. I'm sure people were talking crazy about blurays when they first came out. How about 8 tracks? How about CDs? This same argument comes about every time there is talk about a new format. Embrace the change =^)
I guess you missed my post, read it very slowly and think before you post.
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post #46 of 136
3/18/13 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Hi, I gotcha. From what Comcast hinted in a phone call with them I think there is something in the works soon. Netflix is getting left in the dust. I just tried Vudu last night and bought a movie for the first time and it was pretty good. I'll have to watch more movies on there to form a real opinion but I did like how it works. I also entered my first UV code through flixster and I really liked that.
I would never take the hint of a Comcast rep. They have absolutely no insight and most are borderline retarded. Don't hold your breath. These two companies have beef from the past.
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post #47 of 136
3/18/13 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

I guess you missed my post, read it very slowly and think before you post.

I re-read your post and his answer makes perfect sense for me. And I doubt he missed your post because he quoted it in his answer. ;-) So maybe, you know, some expounding would be helpful, because somewhere something is apparently being misconstrued.

I don't get the hate for a company wanting to introduce a higher quality streaming format. But then, in two years, I'll be one of the 10% who can take advantage of this so maybe I'm biased?

But hey, I think we can all agree at least that the current enemy of online streaming isn't the actual resolution itself, but the needed bandwidth. If the 4K streaming service brings along a better codec (h.265) then that will be a big benefit in quality, not just the pushed pixels. So I'm not going to dismiss streaming out of hand because I understand the likelihood of these other improvements coming along for the ride. That's all part of it to me.
Edited by chirpie - 3/18/13 at 1:04pm
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post #48 of 136
3/18/13 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chirpie View Post

I re-read your post and his answer makes perfect sense for me. And I doubt he missed your post because he quoted it in his answer. ;-) So maybe, you know, some expounding would be helpful, because somewhere something is apparently being misconstrued.

I don't get the hate for a company wanting to introduce a higher quality streaming format. But then, in two years, I'll be one of the 10% who can take advantage of this so maybe I'm biased?

But hey, I think we can all agree at least that the current enemy of online streaming isn't the actual resolution itself, but the needed bandwidth. If the 4K streaming service brings along a better codec (h.265) then that will be a big benefit in quality, not just the pushed pixels. So I'm not going to dismiss streaming out of hand because I understand the likelihood of these other improvements coming along for the ride. That's all part of it to me.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463651/netflix-plans-to-stream-4k-within-2-years/30#post_23094723
OMG, were did I say I hate Netflix because they plan on streaming 4K ? I don't care if they plan on streaming 8K by 6PM today but I don't plan on purchasing a 4K UHDTV until prices fall to todays 1080p HDTV price level. So do you have an UHDTV ? If not when do YOU plan on getting one ?
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post #49 of 136
3/18/13 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463651/netflix-plans-to-stream-4k-within-2-years/30#post_23094723
OMG, were did I say I hate Netflix because they plan on streaming 4K ? I don't care if they plan on streaming 8K by 6PM today but I don't plan on purchasing a 4K UHDTV until prices fall to todays 1080p HDTV price level. So do you have an UHDTV ? If not when do YOU plan on getting one ?
I get your point:

I am not drooling over 4k OLED TVs yet because they are sort of like concept cars at this point; not practical. First more content must be converted to 4k. Then there has to be a practical delivery method. Blu-ray will not work, and streaming would require very high bandwith at a price. Then watch how fast you hit your monthly data cap. Plus there is currently a price tag that of an entry level car for a 4k OLED.

Even if Netflix wanted to adopt a 4k platform, they would have to beef up their infrastructure and that will not make financial sense until more consumers are 4k ready. They are not going to spend millions to offer a service that only 1% of the population can even utilize. It is a few years out, but I do see why Netflix is throwing this info out there. It is called word of mouth and it has all of us talking about it. Sony has created a buzz about their upcoming 4k service and Netflix does not want to feel left behind to a direct competitor.
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post #50 of 136
3/18/13 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

I guess you missed my post, read it very slowly and think before you post.
*Sigh*. I saw what you posted, and again you missed my point. Just because YOU don't have the capability or don't want it, doesn't mean that other people don't. Your condescension is silly and should be pointed in the mirror. Let me put it into another perspective, i'm guessing this was you back in the day:

"I'm not going to buy a computer because they are just way too expensive right now, and the internet shouldn't be invented until everyone can afford a computer."

Are you following yet?
Edited by djPerfectTrip - 3/18/13 at 2:26pm
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post #51 of 136
3/18/13 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Comcast monthly data limit :

Frequently asked questions about excessive use of data.


What are the different plans you will be launching?



We'll be launching at least two approaches, and here is an overview:

In the Nashville market, we will increase our data usage allowance for all tiers to 300 GB per month and also offer additional gigabytes in increments/blocks (e.g., $10 per 50 GB).

In the Tucson market, we will increase our data usage allowance for XFINITY Internet customers subscribing to the Economy tier through the Performance tier from 250 GB to 300 GB. In addition, those customers subscribed to the Blast! tier will receive an increase to 350 GB, those subscribed to Extreme 50 will be increased to 450 GB, and those subscribed to Extreme 105 will be increased to 600 GB (see table below).

XFINITY Internet Package New Data Usage Allowance
Economy 300 GB
Economy Plus 300 GB
Internet Essentials 300 GB
Performance Starter 300 GB
Performance 300 GB
Blast 350 GB
Extreme 50 450 GB
Extreme 105 600 GB

In both approaches, we'll be increasing the initial data usage allowance for our customers from 250 GB per month to at least 300 GB per month.

http://customer.comcast.com/help-and-support/internet/data-usage-what-are-the-different-plans-launching

Many 1080p Blu-ray movies are 50GB each.
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post #52 of 136
3/18/13 at 2:37pm
Pure spin BS! They can call it whatever they want. Just because it will be flagged as UHD content for the display doesn't mean it will contain the data necessary for the best image. IOW just like their so-called HD streaming now.
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post #53 of 136
3/18/13 at 5:23pm
Mark this is a little off topic I hope you don't mind. I registered for a flixster account as I purchased a blu-ray with UV. I noticed flixster said I can store my DVD's on their cloud (if I'm reading it correctly) What are the limits with that? Is it a certain amount of storage for free then you pay for more?

Thanks,
John.
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post #54 of 136
3/18/13 at 5:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

Mark this is a little off topic I hope you don't mind. I registered for a flixster account as I purchased a blu-ray with UV. I noticed flixster said I can store my DVD's on their cloud (if I'm reading it correctly) What are the limits with that? Is it a certain amount of storage for free then you pay for more?

Thanks,
John.

I really have no clue, I've never ripped a DVD to cloud storage. I've also never used the flixster website.
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post #55 of 136
3/18/13 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

I really have no clue, I've never ripped a DVD to cloud storage. I've also never used the flixster website.



I'll have to look into it more, thanks.
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post #56 of 136
3/18/13 at 8:40pm
John,

You are not really storing "your DVD" in the cloud. It is just giving you access to a shared copy of the movie. Space really shouldn't be an issue.
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post #57 of 136
3/18/13 at 8:59pm
Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong.
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post #58 of 136
3/18/13 at 9:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronMK View Post

John,

You are not really storing "your DVD" in the cloud. It is just giving you access to a shared copy of the movie. Space really shouldn't be an issue.



On Flixsters site they have something called disc to digital beta. It's a download for your PC or Mac. I'm going to download it tomorrow but it sure sounds like its storing your ripped DVD's.
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post #59 of 136
3/18/13 at 10:50pm
What is the problem?

Netflix is saying they will begin to stream 4K content "within a year or two."

I would have thought most people here on AVS Forum would be delighted. Would you rather Netflix said we have no interest in improving the quality of the video we stream.

If they do start streaming 4K within a year or two I am sure it would be for early adopters - but I am happy they want help drive picture quality improvements and the infrastructure needed to do this.

Their relationship with the ISPs is certainly complicated - both a major competitor (for those ISPs that are also Cable TV companies) but also a major reason people are willing to pay for high speed internet which is the bulk of the profit for the ISPs.

That said Netflix has to resolve the Open Connect dispute they are having with most of the US ISPs and the reason Netlix is not making their SuperHD (highest quality 1080P streams) available to most US customers before we can think about 4K streaming.
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post #60 of 136
3/18/13 at 10:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by comfynumb View Post

On Flixsters site they have something called disc to digital beta. It's a download for your PC or Mac. I'm going to download it tomorrow but it sure sounds like its storing your ripped DVD's.

Same for Vudu - as AaronMK says 'It is just giving you access to a shared copy of the movie' that you already own or purchase.

http://www.vudu.com/in_home_disc_to_digital.html

I have used it to upgrade some DVD's (480i) to HDX (1080P) - but be careful sometimes that downgrades the sound from 5.1 to 2.0
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