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I have 5000 $ budget for a 5.1 speaker setup... - Page 2

post #31 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

$100,000 is a budget.

Does a $5,000,000 system have the same compromise as a $5,000 system?

No.

Never said that the compromises were the same, just said that there always seem to be compromises. So for the guy that is spending $5,000 on his system and thinking, "if only I had $10,000 to spend" thinking this would solve all of his compromises, it doesn't.
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post #32 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

Oh, with your sickness I figure it's just a matter of time. I've seen your collection of misfit toys. smile.gif

I absolitely agree with them being polarizing. I would never criticize anyone for owning or loving them, however. It is all personal choice.

Very personal choice indeed, and I also respect people owning them even if they may not be for me.

I would not own Paradigm. They just don't fit my criteria. biggrin.gif

We all have our criteria. Even if they sound great, I would probably never own certain brands just because they don't fit my criteria. biggrin.gif
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 3/20/13 at 9:31pm
post #33 of 102
Thread Starter 
OK... i guess i looked at paradigm because they where easy access.. but i too was not impressed... what about monitor audio?
post #34 of 102
What was it you did not not like about the Paradigm. And what electronics were they using to run them. Some speakers are forgiving of the electronics and some are much more finicky.
post #35 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenthplanet View Post

What was it you did not not like about the Paradigm. And what electronics were they using to run them. Some speakers are forgiving of the electronics and some are much more finicky.

In Pure Direct mode which bypasses all EQ, DSP, RC, there is nothing for the electronics to forgive and be finicky about.

But if Room Correction, EQ, DSP were engaged, that could potentially diminish the sound quality. The speaker placement and room acoustic could also adversely affect the SQ.

In my audition, it was in Direct Mode and I did pull the speakers out from the wall. But perhaps the room was at fault. The sound I heard was a little muddy and not as clear. But the sound may be clear in my own room. My Infinity P362 sounded 100% clearer in my house than the Studio 100 at the dealer.
post #36 of 102
I have only heard two generations of the Monitor Floorstanding speakers next to B&W CM7s and I thought they were both very muddy and veiled but a younger colleague liked the Paradigms better than the CM7s. He was in to movies and gaming and less worried about music. He ended up buying a Def Tech system.
Now I have not heard the Studio or Signature series so they may be worlds better, but I was turned off by what I heard but it made it clear to me that speaker choices are subjective and you should listen to as many as you can and pick what you like.
If both music and movies are important I like Kef. If music not a priority then KK, JTR, Tekton and others are known for cinema. For music as a priority, in addition to Kef I would add B&W, Revel, and although I have not yet heard them Salk and Philharmonic based on feedback from others on this forum. In the end it is what you like.
Edit: I would also have to believe TAD would be extremely good also as it has Kef ties but taken very high.
post #37 of 102
My friend who is a dealer said the Paradigm Signature 8 sounded "disgusting" and "pathetic" even when paired with dual high-end Velodyne subs. eek.gif

He was being a bit "too honest". biggrin.gif

But I concur with "muddy" and "veil" or "thin" description.

Another member said he auditioned both the KEF 207/2 & Paradigm S8 at the same place; he thought the S8 was very mediocre & the KEF was amazing.

I've heard people say there's not much difference in SQ between the Studio 100 vs Sig8.

But as we say, it's all quite subjective.

There are A LOT of Paradigm owners FOR SURE. So that's why I just don't know.......
post #38 of 102
Thread Starter 
Well, paradigm is out.. ok,.. Ascend.. or what else??? surely their are other options... MOnitor audio seem nice also?
post #39 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

Well, paradigm is out.. ok,.. Ascend.. or what else??? surely their are other options... MOnitor audio seem nice also?

Ascend, Salk, Revel, KEF. Many people and critics find these speaker great sounding. Plus they measure very accurately.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 3/23/13 at 8:37pm
post #40 of 102
I know the OP has said 5.1 for $5000, but man you could built an amazing 5.0 for $5100 with the new Noesis 228HT's LCR's and Single 8's as rears.
That would be a pretty amazing system that IMO few others could touch for HT use.
post #41 of 102
I'd go with Ascend or Salks...

You could save a bit of cash and go with Ascends Sierra-1 NrT bookshelf speakers as you LCR, sounds amazing and 3 of the same front speakers is hard to beat, then use the Ascends HTM-200 as your rears this would cost you $2104 add in a Rythmik F12 sub at $874 bring the cost to $2978 plus taxes and shipping then for an AVR go with an Anthem MRX 300 at $1000 now you have a killer setup.
post #42 of 102
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

I'd go with Ascend or Salks...

You could save a bit of cash and go with Ascends Sierra-1 NrT bookshelf speakers as you LCR, sounds amazing and 3 of the same front speakers is hard to beat, then use the Ascends HTM-200 as your rears this would cost you $2104 add in a Rythmik F12 sub at $874 bring the cost to $2978 plus taxes and shipping then for an AVR go with an Anthem MRX 300 at $1000 now you have a killer setup.

thanks... i'm looking into that...
post #43 of 102
Thread Starter 
Actually, i'm still debating if i need towers, smallers speakers like the ascend Sierra-1 with a well balanced sub is something that pleases me... thanks..
post #44 of 102
Thread Starter 
Oh ya, and i have 2000$ budget for the AVR so... how about the Anthem MRX 700 ?
post #45 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

Oh ya, and i have 2000$ budget for the AVR so... how about the Anthem MRX 700 ?

No way on the Anthem.

I would do a Marantz SR5007 for $800 & add an Emotiva 3 channel amp to power your front stage.
post #46 of 102
If you've going with a good sub it's probably not really a problem going with some good bookshelf speakers like Sierra's.
You should take a serious look at the Rythmik F25, Brian just released the newest version with the 800watt amp for $1399.
That's a great value and something I would have seriously consider if it was available with I ordered my PSA XS30's.

I don't know if things have changed with the Anthem MRX receivers but back when I was looking at them there seemed to be a lot of software issues with them.
Might be worth reading up on them in the AVR section. If you have a $2000 budget I would suggest looking at the Denon AVR-4520CI.
post #47 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

No way on the Anthem.

I would do a Marantz SR5007 for $800 & add an Emotiva 3 channel amp to power your front stage.

I'm guessing you own Marantz?.... I wouldn't buy a Japanese company like Marantz over a Anthem, Cambridge or Arcam and Anthems room corrections is miles ahead over what the SR5007 has, let alone Anthem uses high end amps and their DSP is as good as it gets. If you prefer "features" over sound than go Jap but Anthem MRX 300 is very very hard to beat at $1000 and blows away that SR5007.
post #48 of 102
Well I'm using the MRX300 for the Towers....albeit slightly more efficient the 300 drives them with ease & room to spare in my 21x15 living room. I'd use the money saved in getting a better sub to augment with your speakers of choice...IMHO....ARC played a large role in making everything sound teriffic....I highly recomend the Anthem line of receivers...coming from a Yamaha RXV1800 and prior to that Denon 3805...wink.gif

Good luck...smile.gif
post #49 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

Actually, i'm still debating if i need towers, smallers speakers like the ascend Sierra-1 with a well balanced sub is something that pleases me... thanks..

The Sierra-1s with the NrT tweeter are simply amazing! a pro reviewer said in the end of his review that these may be the last speakers you buy....

The Sierra-1 makes a great foundation to an audio system, one that you can upgrade around for years (or not)…they could be the last speakers you ever buy. In fact, they may well be the last that I ever buy.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0907/ascend_acoustic_sierra_1.htm

I fully back that as I'm really having a hard time to convince myself that I need anything better as their just that good with the NrT tweeter and they have an upgradable raal kit coming this year. After reviewing the Sierra-1s this review ended up buying them!. No doubt the Towers should be better and I really want to hear them, it's just these speakers are so damn good.
post #50 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rash1 View Post

Oh ya, and i have 2000$ budget for the AVR so... how about the Anthem MRX 700 ?

I think the 700 is over kill, the 300 should be more than enough if you want more power then go with the 500, do you listen loud? if you like it really loud then sure go with the 700 but from sound there is no difference between the 3 just power and extra features and the 700 power supply is different.
post #51 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

I'm guessing you own Marantz?.... I wouldn't buy a Japanese company like Marantz over a Anthem, Cambridge or Arcam and Anthems room corrections is miles ahead over what the SR5007 has, let alone Anthem uses high end amps and their DSP is as good as it gets. If you prefer "features" over sound than go Jap but Anthem MRX 300 is very very hard to beat at $1000 and blows away that SR5007.

You would rather have a Chinese-made AVR over a Marantz ?

And who says ARC is "miles ahead" or even as good as Audyssey XT32? Is that evidence-based or just some hearsay or opinion?

You opened up the Anthem and compared the internal parts with the Marantz and saw that the Anthem uses "high-end" parts and the Marantz does not? eek.gif

Is that also fact that the MRX300 "blows" away the Marantz ? Or just your opinion with nothing to back it up ?

Here is the HTM measurement of the MRX300:

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 1% distortion at 83.4 watts.

Wow, a lot of high-end power there. eek.gif

THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.030 percent at 1 kilohertz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –72.23 decibels left to right and –71.65 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –101.03 dBrA.

Wow, a "high-end" gear with a crapy crosstalk of -71dB @ 1kHz. In fact, all those measurements are much worse than any $1000 Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer. eek.gif

http://www.hometheater.com/content/anthem-mrx-300-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Oh, and here's the MRX700:

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:

1% distortion at 93.7 watts

THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.023 percent at 1 kilohertz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –73.01 decibels left to right and –72.06 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –104.67 dBrA.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/anthem-mrx-700-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

A $2K Anthem with a crosstalk of -72dB @ 1kHz. In fact, all these measurements are also much worse than any $1000 Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer. eek.gif

Oh, don't tell me. Measurements very conveniently don't mean anything. You can just tell by ear. eek.gif



Here is $1K Denon 3312, which Amazon sold for $550 a few months ago:

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:

1% distortion at 103.0 watts

THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.005 percent at 1 kHz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –77.40 dB left to right and –77.93 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 Hz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –108.68 dBrA.

Better than a $2K Anthem. On every measurement.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 3/23/13 at 10:03pm
post #52 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

You would rather have a Chinese-made AVR over a Marantz ?

And who says ARC is "miles ahead" or even as good as Audyssey XT32? Is that evidence-based or just some hearsay or opinion?

You opened up the Anthem and compared the internal parts with the Marantz and saw that the Anthem uses "high-end" parts and the Marantz does not? eek.gif

Is that also fact that the MRX300 "blows" away the Marantz ? Or just your opinion with nothing to back it up ?

Here is the HTM measurement of the MRX300: Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 71.4 watts, 1% distortion at 83.4 watts. Wow, a lot of high-end power there. eek.gif

There was no multichannel input to measure. THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.030 percent at 1 kilohertz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –72.23 decibels left to right and –71.65 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –101.03 dBrA.

Wow, a "high-end" gear with a crapy crosstalk of -71dB @ 1kHz. In fact, all those measurements are much worse than any $1000 Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Pioneer. eek.gif

http://www.hometheater.com/content/anthem-mrx-300-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Oh, and here's the MRX700:

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads:
0.1% distortion at 86.3 watts
1% distortion at 93.7 watts

There was no multichannel input to measure. THD+N from the CD input to the speaker output was less than 0.023 percent at 1 kilohertz when driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load. Crosstalk at 1 kHz driving 2.83 volts into an 8-ohm load was –73.01 decibels left to right and –72.06 dB right to left. The signal-to-noise ratio with an 8-ohm load from 10 hertz to 24 kHz with “A” weighting was –104.67 dBrA.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/anthem-mrx-700-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

the SR5007 uses Audyssey MultEQ XT not XT32, there is a pro review and they opened up the MRX and went over the parts and it's built quality and those test marks were known not to be accurate sound and vision test marks of the MRX 700

Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 147/216 W (21.7/23.3 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 94 W (19.7 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 71 W (18.5 dBW)

I don't even own an Anthem, I've been looking and one Anthem dealer has Yamaha, Denon and Marantz and even the sales guy there were pumping Anthem over those. At this store they have them setup for abing, Anthem had more depth, imaging , detail and transparent, imo. I want to hear more from Arcam before I buy, but hearing Anthem up against denon, marantz and yamaha I'll take anthem, although the yamaha were really nice. You can't tell audio equipment from numbers and testing scores.
post #53 of 102
Rash1,

you should go to audio stores and test out Anthem, Denon, Yahama, Marantz, Pioneer, Arcam, Cambridge ect I'm pretty sure you'll much prefer Anthem over Denon and it's sister company Marantz, I thought they were ok but after hearing audiophile companies like Anthem there is a difference. I don't want to sway you to one company over another with my bias and with your limit of $2000 you have a lot of great choices, personally for me it's down to Arcam or Anthem with Cambridge in the race, I'm now trying to abing those two/three, like I was able to with the other brands. Remember that feature rich brands have to pay for those features and have to cut cost some where to offer it at the same price as companies that focus on audio quality and with my time abing the 2 different approaches, I much prefer the companies with the less features.
post #54 of 102
All this talk about Anthem sounding better then Denon, Marantz, Pioneer and Yamaha is starting to be too much to take. It's starting to sound like the old "this amp is magical and sounds way better then that amp". I personally A/B tested a Anthem MRX700 with a Denon AVR-4520 and a high store a friend works at and when using the same speakers they sounded the exact same.

The same friend has said they have returned far more Anthem receivers and would take a Denon over all of the receivers they sell.
I personally think you should get which ever brand does it for you but stop trying to say band A sounds 10 times better then brand X.
post #55 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

I'm guessing you own Marantz?.... I wouldn't buy a Japanese company like Marantz over a Anthem, Cambridge or Arcam and Anthems room corrections is miles ahead over what the SR5007 has, let alone Anthem uses high end amps and their DSP is as good as it gets. If you prefer "features" over sound than go Jap but Anthem MRX 300 is very very hard to beat at $1000 and blows away that SR5007.

You're from Canada and I respect having pride in your country (Anthem is a Canadian company), but 80 watts for $1,000 is not a good value in comparison to the solution I offered which was the receiver with pre-outs into a larger amp. This recommendation would obviously hinge on his speaker choice on if the added power would even benefit him. At a $5,000 speaker system I would say probably.

Do I own Marantz? Yes, quite a few pieces. I also own a fair amount of Denon, Parasound, Halo, and Arcam gear. I own an integration firm the designs systems for these products and we have a lot of it in our design center.

- Anthem's room corrections are not miles ahead of Audyssey by any stretch at all. They all have benefits and draw backs.

- Anthem's electronic sections are sourced from another receiver manufacturer and is not made special for them, so this is not any advantage Anthem has over anyone else at all. How do I know this? Because two months ago the rep called me and offered me the line. We had quite the discussion about Anthem and he sent me the price sheets for all of it (it's got the margins of any other receiver line, so if someone says they can't discount it.... BS). Unfortunately, the deal was going to be that I had to take on Paradigm as s line as well. Paradigm is my least favorite major speaker manufacturer so I declined.

- I have demo'd Anthem, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, Rotel and just about every other receiver line under the sun. They are all very similar to each other in their various price points with their own separate benefits and drawbacks.

Before anyone tries to say it, just because I sell one brand or the other doesn't mean I'm here to rep it exclusively or give it any sort of special attention over anything else. I'll be just as happy to say something is bad product as I am to say it's a good one. I have nothing to gain in this and I've yet to have a client come in and say... I read on a message board "blah, blah, blah" and then hand me a bunch of money - although.... that would be AWESOME.

I will freely admit that Anthem makes a great receiver. It is a fine choice and the OP or anyone else would not be particularly wrong to choose it if it fit their needs... or a Marantz, Integra, Arcam, Cambridge, Pioneer, or Yamaha. These receivers on the surface are really all about the same at any given price point unless there is a specific need that it can't accommodate. I promise you, I've used them all over the years I've been in custom electronics. I have brands that I would say to stay away from for various reasons: Pioneer & Pioneer Elite's HDMI output is junk if you are trying to go really far or through a balun over CAT5, Onkyo's reliability has been suspect lately, and Yamaha's I personally don't like to use because the setup and menus are annoying to me personally.

Other than that, pick one and enjoy it.
Edited by PlexMulti - 3/23/13 at 11:29pm
post #56 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

I'm guessing you own Marantz?.... I wouldn't buy a Japanese company like Marantz over a Anthem, Cambridge or Arcam and Anthems room corrections is miles ahead over what the SR5007 has, let alone Anthem uses high end amps and their DSP is as good as it gets. If you prefer "features" over sound than go Jap but Anthem MRX 300 is very very hard to beat at $1000 and blows away that SR5007.

I don't know where you get your info from but Anthem receivers are made in China, no different then any other major brand.
post #57 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

I don't know where you get your info from but Anthem receivers are made in China, no different then any other major brand.

I never said the MRX wasn't made there?... wtf?...
post #58 of 102
It just comes across poorly when you start going off saying Anthem sounds better then every other brand, we get that you like Anthem but everyone needs to make their own decisions. Like I said, I have a friend that sells Anthem, Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer and a few others. I've personally back to back tested an Anthem MRX700 and a Denon AVR-4520 using the same mains and sound wise there was no difference. Further more the same friend has said they've had to take back more Anthem receivers from customers then any of the other brands they sell.
post #59 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlexMulti View Post

You're from Canada and I respect having pride in your country (Anthem is a Canadian company), but 80 watts for $1,000 is not a good value in comparison to the solution I offered which was the receiver with pre-outs into a larger amp. This recommendation would obviously hinge on his speaker choice on if the added power would even benefit him. At a $5,000 speaker system I would say probably.

Do I own Marantz? Yes, quite a few pieces. I also own a fair amount of Denon, Parasound, Halo, and Arcam gear. I own an integration firm the designs systems for these products and we have a lot of it in our design center.

- Anthem's room corrections are not miles ahead of Audyssey by any stretch at all. They all have benefits and draw backs.

- Anthem's electronic sections are sourced from another receiver manufacturer and is not made special for them, so this is not any advantage Anthem has over anyone else at all. How do I know this? Because two months ago the rep called me and offered me the line. We had quite the discussion about Anthem and he sent me the price sheets for all of it (it's got the margins of any other receiver line, so if someone says they can't discount it.... BS). Unfortunately, the deal was going to be that I had to take on Paradigm as s line as well. Paradigm is my least favorite major speaker manufacturer so I declined.

- I have demo'd Anthem, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, Rotel and just about every other receiver line under the sun. They are all very similar to each other in their various price points with their own separate benefits and drawbacks.

Before anyone tries to say it, just because I sell one brand or the other doesn't mean I'm here to rep it exclusively or give it any sort of special attention over anything else. I'll be just as happy to say something is bad product as I am to say it's a good one. I have nothing to gain in this and I've yet to have a client come in and say... I read on a message board "blah, blah, blah" and then hand me a bunch of money - although.... that would be AWESOME.

I will freely admit that Anthem makes a great receiver. It is a fine choice and the OP or anyone else would not be particularly wrong to choose it if it fit their needs... or a Marantz, Integra, Arcam, Cambridge, Pioneer, or Yamaha. These receivers on the surface are really all about the same at any given price point unless there is a specific need that it can't accommodate. I promise you, I've used them all over the years I've been in custom electronics. I have brands that I would say to stay away from for various reasons: Pioneer & Pioneer Elite's HDMI output is junk if you are trying to go really far or through a balun over CAT5, Onkyo's reliability has been suspect lately, and Yamaha's I personally don't like to use because the setup and menus are annoying to me personally.

Other than that, pick one and enjoy it.

Anthem isn't a Canadian company anymore, it's American now, if I wanted to push Canadian I'd be pushing NAD or Bryston. Look it doesn't matter to me who fan bois what, I don't even own Anthem right now and maybe I wont when I buy a new AVR as I still want to ab it against Cambridge and Arcam, so I don't have anything invested in Anthem, just going by how it faired up to others when I ab avrs, and in my opinion they do sound different and that's because of their DSP processing and room corrections effects the sound, for me and what I've tested as of now imho Anthem MRX is the best I've heard and it never had issues with power, even the 300. If your running it just off the amp than yeah I agree they'll sound the same. We all have different opinions on this topic and what speakers sound better, which is why I said you have to listen to them yourself to find out what sounds best. You have Marantz and your pushing that, I get it, the other guy has Denon and he pushed that, that's cool you have that, you like it and happy with it that's fine, I own Harman Kardon and I'm not pushing that cause there's a reason why I'm looking at upgrading and I don't feel it matches up with the competition out there so I wouldn't recommend it, just giving my honest opinion. Like I said earlier with a $2000 budget he has a lot of great options, including ID like outlaw.

Also, when I tested the MRX 300 it didn't lack anything compared to the Denon, Marantz and Yamaha, in the UK forums there's a few guys who sold the Arcam FMJ 600 for the Anthem MRX 300 after hearing the Anthem!, that's saying a lot for that amp considering the Arcam 600 is 6 times the MRX 300 price. Again we all have different taste in things and if there was only one clear choice than we wouldn't have competition.
post #60 of 102
I don't own a Denon, I own a Pioneer. I just find it amusing when people start going off saying one brand sounds amazing, almost magical and sounds way brand then another brand. Just comes across funny and total is BS.
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