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Panasonic May End Plasma Production in 2014 - Page 7

post #181 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icon13 View Post

I saw this one coming. Panasonic plasma sales were far below expectations last year. I want to say that I read sales were 60% lower than their projections. Plus, it seemed like Samsung's F8500 stole the show at 2013 CES as far as plasmas are concerned. Those sets have made me very excited about the potential future of affordable plasma televisions.

Furthermore, what is the motion resolution of OLED? I have read that it suffers from similar afflictions as LCD. Any truth behind this? If so, it will be sad to say goodbye to plasma.

I am not drooling over 4k OLED TVs yet because they are sort of like concept cars at this point; not practical. First more content must be converted to 4k. Then there has to be a practical delivery method. Blu-ray will not work, and streaming would require very high bandwith at a price. Then watch how fast you hit your monthly data cap. Plus there is currently a price tag that of an entry level car for an OLED.

OLED is super fast and should have perfect motion resolution. Refresh rates of 600Hz and above are possible. As are pixel response rates of .02 ms. As well as real contrast ratios of 1,000,000:1
post #182 of 225
For faster refresh rate, Panasoni plasma are already at 3.000 Hz.
post #183 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by JukeBox360 View Post

You sure your not confusing it with a PSP. The only thing apples display had over that vita is PPI. Color wise the vita blows it out the water with plenty of room to run.

Yep - and now LCD doesn't even have the PPI crown (at least not with Apple's "retina" screens). The retina LCDs are something like 330 ppi - the new OLED screen on the Samsung Galaxy S4 is something on the order of 440 PPI. I think it's a 1080P screen on a 5" handheld device. Amazing...
post #184 of 225
Only for Japan-market.
post #185 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Only for Japan-market.

What are you suggesting is only for the Japan market?

http://reviews.cnet.com/samsung-galaxy-s4/
Quote:
The Galaxy S4 handset steadily draws from the same design language as the S3, but takes almost every spec to an extreme -- the screen is larger (5 inches), the resolution greater (1080p), the battery capacity higher (2,600mAh), the processor faster (1.9GHz quad-core or 1.6GHz octa-core), and the rear-facing camera stuffed with more megapixels (13, to be exact).
post #186 of 225
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdoherty972 View Post

Yep - and now LCD doesn't even have the PPI crown (at least not with Apple's "retina" screens). The retina LCDs are something like 330 ppi - the new OLED screen on the Samsung Galaxy S4 is something on the order of 440 PPI. I think it's a 1080P screen on a 5" handheld device. Amazing...

LCD retains the pixel density crown with 498ppi, courtesy of the Sharp IGZO display. http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/news/creative-hardware/up-close-with-sharps-better-than-retina-498dpi-igzo-display/
Edited by imagic - 3/26/13 at 1:21pm
post #187 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

If you live anywhere near Cincinnati Oh, come to my house and watch and HDX movie and a blu ray movie on my HT screen. I have no dog in this fight but that is like saying a car that does 0 to 60 in 6.8 seconds is the same as a car that does it in 6 seconds...they both do it in the "6" range but I can tell you which will cross the finish line first. HDX and Blu Ray are NOT equivalent. Close, yes but blu ray is superior visually. Throw in the audio side of blu ray and it wins on both fronts. I have watched many hours on both formats. Now if you shrink the screen size the visual differences are not as great but that does not mean they are different. However, 90+ percent of people don't care about the small difference in quality....just isn't important to them.

I'm in Connecticut, so that wouldn't work too well. I know HDX is equivalent, but if you were in the area, I'd come over just to see how someone else sets their gear up!
post #188 of 225
Mathematics proves him wrong (regarding HDX and BD equivalency), end of line. wink.gif
post #189 of 225
Quote:
LED revolutionized the TV industry, as it finally brought together the performance of the expensive, energy hogging plasmas with the more efficient and cost effective LCD technology, and in the process cut energy consumption even farther, got rid of mercury in the sets, and made them super thin. You might be in denial, but LED is the best technology out there, and, at least until OLED, is the current and future of HDTV technology.

You're absolutely right, videophiles everywhere rejoiced the day that mercury was removed from the LED/LCD's. After all that is more of the most integral specs for PQ performance.

Look, I'm for the obvious right to have your own opinion and the ability to fight to the death for that opinion, but to bluntly state that adding an LED backlight simply fixed the LCD technology and automatically gave it the PQ crown is a joke. LED did not revolutionize the TV industry, nor it is the best, plain and simple.

If you're going to throw out some wild accusations like this, explain why. Tell me how uniformity, contrast ratio, backlight bleed, clouding, flashlighting, shadow detail, black levels, temporal resolution handling, off-axis viewing, etc. etc. aren't issues with most LCD's today.
post #190 of 225
I hope this is at least a partially false report because in spite of what a few members have posted, I have yet to see an LCD that outperforms Panasonics top of the line plasmas with the possible exception of the Sharp Elite models which are out of mainstream America's price range. Not only are the top of the line Panny plasma sets still the best on the market but plasma sets in general are superior to LCD and also the most affordable. OLED isn't going to be affordable for years to come and there are indeed questions about its less than stellar predicted life expectancy. Can you imagine paying 10 grand plus for a set that may only last 4 or 5 years? Sure there are some who would replace them that often in favor of the latest technology but that's an extremely small percentage of the buying public. There simply is no better bargain than plasma right now so if Panny is smart, they'll phase them out slowly until OLED becomes nearly as affordable or it just could be a mistake that puts them out of business.
post #191 of 225
Roumor... Why would they quit? It's the best TV ever! Go buy and see for yourself!
I had V10,and it was great, now I have VT50 and it's perfect! So perfect that I hate it! I spend more time watching movies than ever before! It's becoming my greatest piece of gear I have ever had! Love it!
post #192 of 225
^Best TV evar? Not quite (the Kuro is still sitting atop the throne, but that may change this year).
post #193 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

^Best TV evar? Not quite (the Kuro is still sitting atop the throne, but that may change this year).

The Kuro is still the best set I have ever seen and it was heartbreaking when Pioneer stopped production. Given that, Panasonic's plasmas are so good today that I'd love to be able to see a side by side comparison of their current top of the line and a "new" Kuro to see how they stack up. Obviously that can't happen but it would certainly be interesting. If Panny does stop making Plasmas, the Samsung plasma is a very close 2nd so I'd have to go that way until OLED is affordable but Samsung's customer service stinks compared to Panasonic.
post #194 of 225
Well, this year, you don't have to settle for 2nd best (or would that be 3rd best if we account for Pioneer? wink.gif). Panasonic is still in the game, for now! The ZT60 is waiting in the wings.
post #195 of 225
It is only logical step because there are a lot of returned tv panels under warranty. My 50 inch Panasonic plasma tv recently had a vertical stripe and I had money back under warranty. That is a serious problem because technology of plasma tv has problem with vertical stripes that no manufacturer has jet solved. cool.gif
post #196 of 225
^I have a 4-year-old Pioneer that has no such stripes.
post #197 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Mathematics proves him wrong (regarding HDX and BD equivalency), end of line. wink.gif

This is where you're wrong. What I am saying is that BD and HDX are visually equivalent to a human being at the THX seating distance (which is the closest of any guide or recommendation I can find), not that they have the same data in them. If you compress, yes, you lose something. The question is whether a human can tell the difference, and the answer is that they can't. This is just like in audio, you'd be really lucky to tell the difference between 256kbps MP3 and WAV, and around 280kbps VBR or 320kbps CBR, you're at CD quality to a human being, even though there is still compression loss. Yes, I am a snob for quality. I love HDX, I love 320kbps MP3, but at the same time, I am not a snob just for the sake of getting more data that a human can't perceive.
post #198 of 225
See, vinnie97? What did I tell you? biggrin.gif funny thing, though, although BiggAW claim to be a quality snob, he uses regular Sharp LCD (not even Elite), not in a dedicated light controlled room and not have his TV periodically professionally ISF calibrated.
post #199 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by baljumbaljum View Post

It is only logical step because there are a lot of returned tv panels under warranty. My 50 inch Panasonic plasma tv recently had a vertical stripe and I had money back under warranty. That is a serious problem because technology of plasma tv has problem with vertical stripes that no manufacturer has jet solved. cool.gif

Funny that even my oldest plasma (NEC, 4:3, non-HD) don't even have that problem. And my Pioneer PRO-FHD1, PRO 1150 and PRO 111 don't have that problem either. From all the plasma I calibrated I literally saw the stripe just ONCE, and that's after I personally saw that the box was accidentally dropped by the shipper.
post #200 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

This is where you're wrong. What I am saying is that BD and HDX are visually equivalent to a human being at the THX seating distance (which is the closest of any guide or recommendation I can find), not that they have the same data in them. If you compress, yes, you lose something. The question is whether a human can tell the difference, and the answer is that they can't. This is just like in audio, you'd be really lucky to tell the difference between 256kbps MP3 and WAV, and around 280kbps VBR or 320kbps CBR, you're at CD quality to a human being, even though there is still compression loss. Yes, I am a snob for quality. I love HDX, I love 320kbps MP3, but at the same time, I am not a snob just for the sake of getting more data that a human can't perceive.
I am very familiar with psychoacoustics and the realm of transparency with the source (what one perceives as CD quality will vary depending on the individual, and double blind listening tests are the best way to find one's own bitrate threshold). Concerning video, HDX is very convincing on my 50" panel (quite probably perceptually equivalent in some cases, though I have not observed but a handful of films via this method). I have noticed compression artifacts that would not appear on a disc, however, and I also have serious doubts as to whether image quality would hold up to scrutiny with larger screens (including projectors). Unless the reports above are just vivid imaginations at work, it would appear that my hunch is correct. HDX is at minimum 3 to 4 times more compressed than an equivalent Blu-ray, so there will no doubt be some visual artifacts introduced because of the data that is thrown away. TruFilm truly does push h.264 to its limits, and I can only imagine how much better HDX will be if/when Vudu adopts h.265.
post #201 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

See, vinnie97? What did I tell you? biggrin.gif funny thing, though, although BiggAW claim to be a quality snob, he uses regular Sharp LCD (not even Elite), not in a dedicated light controlled room and not have his TV periodically professionally ISF calibrated.
3 strikes and you're out. wink.gif A regular Sharp LCD no doubt camouflages those low light level artifacts pretty convincingly. :P
post #202 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

See, vinnie97? What did I tell you? biggrin.gif funny thing, though, although BiggAW claim to be a quality snob, he uses regular Sharp LCD (not even Elite), not in a dedicated light controlled room and not have his TV periodically professionally ISF calibrated.

I am a snob up to the point that it matters. Most people aren't. They are fine with out of the box TVs and small HTIBs. And sorry I don't have a light controlled room. I have a living room. Where I live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I am very familiar with psychoacoustics and the realm of transparency with the source (what one perceives as CD quality will vary depending on the individual, and double blind listening tests are the best way to find one's own bitrate threshold). Concerning video, HDX is very convincing on my 50" panel (quite probably perceptually equivalent in some cases, though I have not observed but a handful of films via this method). I have noticed compression artifacts that would not appear on a disc, however, and I also have serious doubts as to whether image quality would hold up to scrutiny with larger screens (including projectors). Unless the reports above are just vivid imaginations at work, it would appear that my hunch is correct. HDX is at minimum 3 to 4 times more compressed than an equivalent Blu-ray, so there will no doubt be some visual artifacts introduced because of the data that is thrown away. TruFilm truly does push h.264 to its limits, and I can only imagine how much better HDX will be if/when Vudu adopts h.265.

They do occasionally botch an encode, like Zero Dark Thirty, but that's the exception, not the rule for HDX. The compression artifacts are either not visible (normal) or they jump off the screen (as in a botched encode).
post #203 of 225
If you don't have a light controlled room, you don't have a TV that can faithfully produces what's being fed into, and don't have your TV professionally calibrated periodically how can you claim:

1. Netflix and BD are visually transparant
2. A quality snob

Your equipment, viewing condition, state of your display don't reflect your above claims 1 and 2.

Oh, I forgot, you are the almighty BiggAW, we all have to agree with you and when we disagree then we are delusional, right?
post #204 of 225
A quick off topic question. I had my reference kuro 151 calibrated last April by Jeff Meier. It gets watched about 10 hours a week. How often would one get that calibrated ? Thanks
post #205 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

I am a snob up to the point that it matters. Most people aren't. They are fine with out of the box TVs and small HTIBs. And sorry I don't have a light controlled room. I have a living room. Where I live.
They do occasionally botch an encode, like Zero Dark Thirty, but that's the exception, not the rule for HDX. The compression artifacts are either not visible (normal) or they jump off the screen (as in a botched encode).
Yea, I just don't trust your assessment of the quality comparison on that middle-of-the-road Sharp LCD combined with an excessively lit environment. I also watch in a living room setting but most viewing is in the evening when I have full control of the lighting. That's why I can't easily give up the Kuro (that will hopefully change this year).
post #206 of 225
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by t-town oil View Post

A quick off topic question. I had my reference kuro 151 calibrated last April by Jeff Meier. It gets watched about 10 hours a week. How often would one get that calibrated ? Thanks

Once a year is enough. In my case is different because I write reviews and conduct trainings and clinics so I recalibrate every month. This is admittedly excessive, however.
post #207 of 225
Panasonic President says TV business stays. Here's the latest.

http://www.twice.com/articletype/news/ohtsubo-steps-down-tv-operations-stay/105645
post #208 of 225
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD View Post

Panasonic President says TV business stays. Here's the latest.

http://www.twice.com/articletype/news/ohtsubo-steps-down-tv-operations-stay/105645

Panasonic is staying in the TV business, that's not the issue. The question is if Panasonic will continue making plasma sets going forward. Nothing in that article indicates Panasonic is going to keep making plasma TVs after 2014. The company already laid out a road map whereby plasma gets one more model year, but without the benefit of any significant R&D. LCD gets three to five more years of active development., and then OLED takes over.

In case you missed this post, here's a recap:

"At a meeting at CNET this week to discuss new products, Henry Hauser, Panasonic North American vice president of merchandising display products, told us that the ZT60 likely represents the last generation of plasma TV development the company would undertake.
Traditionally, each year brings a new generation of improved plasma TVs for Panasonic, but Hauser says that after next year this practice may not continue.
"There's probably not going to be a huge generational difference next year," Hauser said. "I wouldn't expect further generations after that." He added that midterm future products were likely to focus on 4K rather than OLED."
- source: CNET
Edited by imagic - 3/29/13 at 8:57am
post #209 of 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

If you don't have a light controlled room, you don't have a TV that can faithfully produces what's being fed into, and don't have your TV professionally calibrated periodically how can you claim:

1. Netflix and BD are visually transparant
2. A quality snob

Your equipment, viewing condition, state of your display don't reflect your above claims 1 and 2.

Oh, I forgot, you are the almighty BiggAW, we all have to agree with you and when we disagree then we are delusional, right?

Very, very few displays are actually in light controlled rooms, so it's fine to test them that way to generate metrics, but you have to realize that those metrics don't mean a lot for real world use. I NEVER said Netflix is equivalent to anything. It's not that great. VUDU HDX is equivalent to Blu-ray. And yes, I am a quality snob, but only up to the point that it is visible to the human eye. You are a quality snob up to the point that testing equipment (including a DSLR for pixel peeping) can detect. That's fine, but that doesn't get you any farther than where I am for actual human eyes viewing the content.
post #210 of 225
Agree that plasma is still the best bang for the buck out right now. Wish they would extend production a few years longer.
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