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Should I wait for Haswell? - Page 5

post #121 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

F-it !

I did it.

This MicroCenter ad today made me think of you biggrin.gif


Edited by StardogChampion - 6/6/13 at 10:05am
post #122 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lagittaja View Post

Well these -R BGA SKU's will probably first arrive in the form of Intel's NUC. That's just guessing but I wouldn't be suprised, actually I would be surprised if we WOULDN'T see a Intel NUC with the Iris Pro.
I searched around a bit and didn't see any news regarding these or any motherboards with these. But Computex is still on for what, till saturday? Maybe we will see one there. Since there were some Kabini mb's from ECS iirc at Computex.

Here's some Haswell NUC news:
http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/tech-news-intel-extend-nuc-next-unit-computing-family-haswell

The Core i5 version is particularly interesting since it would have the Iris GPU (HD5000)

http://ark.intel.com/products/75028/Intel-Core-i5-4250U-Processor-3M-Cache-up-to-2_60-GHz

The Core i3 has HD4400 GPU.

http://ark.intel.com/products/75107/Intel-Core-i3-4010U-Processor-3M-Cache-1_70-GHz

Not -R chips though. It will be very interesting to see where these -R chips show up. I am praying for a thin mini-ITX motherboard...
post #123 of 250
And, here's some other interesting news:

Intel shifting Celeron, Pentium chips to Atom architecture

I didn't see that coming!
post #124 of 250
Looking at the NUC link above, it looks like intel is catering to the htpc crowd with the consumer ir port built in. It makes me want to hold off buying the current nuc models until these new ones are released. (Of course I am also still saving up anyway for a htpc.)
post #125 of 250
Those Haswell NUC's look interesting. I am really interested in the quad core i7 with 5200 graphics. Hopefully we will see those somewhere soon, if not I will build something with the i7-4470k.
Edited by Guinness77 - 6/6/13 at 1:26pm
post #126 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

F-it !

I did it.

This MicroCenter ad today made me think of you biggrin.gif


It's true.

At the end of the day I could not justify not taking the deal. $400 for both Asrock Extreme4 and 4770k CPU is just a good deal considering Haswell is like 15 minutes old. I understand that it could drop a little in the future but I thought about it and basically I paid $120 for the Asrock Extreme 4 (Newegg sells it for $160 right now) and I paid $279 for the 4770k CPU(NewEgg is $349). Grand total $399. I thought to myself how much can it drop ? $10? $20 ?

I just don't see much price change and having it now as opposed to waiting months; and not waiting months is worth $10 possibly.

Had I got anything LGA1155 I would have regretted it since 1155 is now done. And I had I tried to save a few bucks on the lower CPU I also would have regretted it.

I'm hoping it's a worthy replacement for my 2600k.

In the end the big deal was not just that the 4770k is better than the 3770k or whatever... it's that Z87 is better than Z77. There is some extras in the Z87 Asrock Extreme I liked.
post #127 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you are going to use Intel iGPU, then the best madVR's algorithms are

- Chroma upscaling: BiCubic 50
- Image upscaling: DXVA2
- Image downscaling: DXVA2

I tested 1080p24 movies with

- CPU: Core i7-3770K
- GPU: iGPU
- SVP: Level 5g
- madVR: The above algorithms
Code:
           | CPU usage | iGPU usage | Playback
OpenCL off |    80%    |     28%    | heavy stuttering 
OpenCL on  |    60%    |     95%    | heavy stuttering

In other words CPU is not powerful enough for SVP 5g without GPU assistance (unless you overclock it, say, @4.5-5.0GHz), while iGPU is not powerful enough to assist CPU. Haswell CPU's performance is more or less the same as IVB CPU. The number of EUs in Haswell is 20, while that in IVB is 16, so Haswell iGPU is not enough for OpenCL either.

Adding a small discrete GPU such as GT 430 / HD 6570 as an OpenCL engine will make the playback perfectly smooth. Here is a result when GT 430 is added (iGPU is still used for video rendering with madVR).

- CPU: Core i7-3770K
- GPU: iGPU
- SVP: Level 5g with GT 430 as an OpenCL engine
- madVR: The above algorithms
Code:
           | CPU usage | dGPU usage | iGPU usage | Playback
OpenCL off |    80%    |     0 %    |    28%     | heavy stuttering 
OpenCL on  |    60%    |     60%    |    50%     | smooth

BTW iGPU usage of 50% is normal when rendering 60fps videos *smoothly* with madVR (28% with heavy stuttering is just because not enough video frames are sent to the video renderer).


Thanks for the awesome reply. I'll test the 4770k when I get a chance and post the results in the SVP thread.
post #128 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'm actually not going to watch movies on mine. It's more a daily driver workstation.

I'm debating upgrading my 3570k based HTPC with a 7000 series Radeon or wait a little bit and go 8000 series. I think once you get serious the integrated graphics don't matter. My old desktop mobo didn't even have hdmi output (i7 2600k).

If your spending more than $200 on a CPU chip then your probably best off with a GPU card historically. This 4770k machine is the first one I'm going to try without a GPU and I'm anxious to see the result. I find as I'm getting older I'm gaming less and less. My plan is to wait a bit and then put In a nice GPU card. I'm wondering if the 4770k can do SVP level 5G and MADVR without a GPU card. If so that might make GPU cards extinct in HTPC. Haswell seems much improved on the HTPC arena over IVY on refresh rates and dropped frames too.

No point in HD 8xx0 - it is re-badged 7 - OEM only. We should see 9xx0 by the end of the year. Yeah, an i7 with really low-end integrated graphics would be nice, save that energy consumption/heat generation for the CPU side.
post #129 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

No point in HD 8xx0 - it is re-badged 7 - OEM only. We should see 9xx0 by the end of the year. Yeah, an i7 with really low-end integrated graphics would be nice, save that energy consumption/heat generation for the CPU side.

There will be consumers versions of the 8xx0 cards coming as well, which will be new products, not rebadged. Only the OEM version of the 8xx0 cards are going to be rebadged, IE the cards which will go into prebuilts such as Dell and HP.
post #130 of 250
ASUS just announced a HTPC focused NUC with 802.11ac and an interesting mouse accessory. Availability 3rd quarter.

http://www.pcper.com/news/Systems/Computex-2013-ASUS-Releases-More-Information-VivoPC-and-VivoMouse-HTPC-System
post #131 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawd1992 View Post

+1

I set the resolution in WMC & still get the 1024x768 resolution once in awhile. This is with an i3-2100 using integrated graphics & the HTPC is hooked up directly to an HDTV. I think this is more of a quirk with WMC than video drivers. Whenever I do get the 1024x768 resolution I can close WMC & the desktop resolution is 1920x1080.

Hi. I had this problem too. Its in the way WMC saves the res. What worked for me was to set desktop res lower, at say 1600x900. Go into WMC, set resolution, it will ask for 1600x900 but override change it to 1080. It saves. Drop back to desktop and reset your desk res to 1080. For me at least WMC never drops res any more.
post #132 of 250
I guess I'm lucky since I've never had that problem. And I have been using WMC for TV daily for like three to four years or something like.
post #133 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post



No point in HD 8xx0 - it is re-badged 7 - OEM only. We should see 9xx0 by the end of the year. Yeah, an i7 with really low-end integrated graphics would be nice, save that energy consumption/heat generation for the CPU side.

I am sorry I actually meant 9000 series. I have my eyes on a Radeon 7970 now but the price is heavy.

Hey - what is up with all the old Radeon's selling for so much? Used on ebay the 5000/6000 series fetching huge money. It is bitcoining ?

I have a 5770, 5670, 6850, and a 6870. I view them as outdated and yet the sell for more than I paid. I might just sell them all off and get one new card.
post #134 of 250
I'd personally grab a GTX 770 tongue.gif
Or a used 680
post #135 of 250
I'm not sure. It seems like the GPU market is stuck in this odd void. There is no great deals and no great products making the entire choice boring. I think I'm going to wait for a little while.
post #136 of 250
That said,

I built my Haswell last night smile.gif

without much playing or tuning - first results are impressive of my new 4770k

post #137 of 250
3770K@4.5 gives 11813. I believe you have Speedstep enabled as well? Noticed my cpu drops down to 1.6Ghz in between every test so I think it might hamper the result a bit..
But nevertheless, it's fast smile.gif
post #138 of 250
You can manually over clock to prevent the step down in speed. I just changed multiplier to 40 and tried it.

I haven't had a chance to really tweak it yet and didn't want to get crazy.
post #139 of 250
C-State transitions are ultra fast on Haswell, there is no good reason to disable the power/temp savings from it.
post #140 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

C-State transitions are ultra fast on Haswell, there is no good reason to disable the power/temp savings from it.

Yup. Been watching some of the Haswell OC'ing videos. Power states don't need to be disabled for a stable overclock like they had to be in previous generations.
post #141 of 250
I'll have to watch some and learn my way around this thing. I need a water cooler first before I get crazy though.
post #142 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You can manually over clock to prevent the step down in speed. I just changed multiplier to 40 and tried it.

I haven't had a chance to really tweak it yet and didn't want to get crazy.

Yep, I sure do know that.
post #143 of 250
post #144 of 250
It seems now Asrock has also dropped the CIR support on their 8-series boards.
Only Intel left with HTPC-specific features? What a pity.

Let'S really hope they get NUCs right this time.
post #145 of 250
Intel is pulling out of the mobo business completely. They have fewer models for lga1150 already, and after that... nothing. Good bye Intel. Nice knowing you.
post #146 of 250
Yeah. They only launched with five different boards with 8 series. When 7 series launched they had something like 17 different boards.
R.I.P.
post #147 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Intel is pulling out of the mobo business completely.

yes i know, and that's the tragedy of it if no one else jumps in.

I just thought before the PC dies completely, there might be a nice HTPC Platform. Or else we'll have to wait for some puny raspi or nintendo or xbox or.. to fill the gap. That might take a while.

It seems that 99% of all people consume media on their phones, esp 4k content... so that's what personal computing is all about nowadays.
The other 1% seem to be here :-)
post #148 of 250
You act as if Intel was the only company producing motherboards. tongue.gif
And for CIR, there is always the USB CIR widgets, which work on every PC.
post #149 of 250
But internal CIR is always better since not all motherboards have loads of USB ports.
post #150 of 250
This is really only an issue for HTPC, which needs to be (IMHO) usable with a remote only (after initial setup maybe, which I'd rather do with desktop style Kayb/mouse if).

Also wake from S4/S5 won't work out of the box with USB.

.. and I have learnt to distrust USB when it comes to 24/7 sleep/wake kind of use cases. It's not a big deal, but there are enough things that can go wrong so I try to avoid anything that is avoidable.

Anyway, I'll stop whining, and see what happens, It's just media consumption, we'te not saving lives here.
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