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TWO SVS PB12 Pluses vs ONE Seaton Submersive HP or ONE SVS PB13 Ultra? Which would you choose... - Page 2

post #31 of 51
According to the Rythmik web page the FV15HP still has a 1db advantage over the F25 though.

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post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

According to the Rythmik web page the FV15HP still has a 1db advantage over the F25 though.

I could be wrong on this but...

I think that is at 20Hz with the FV15HP in max output 2port mode. I use max extension 1port mode, From what I can tell a lot of us FV15HP owners do 1port. So the F25 should pull ahead a tad vs FV15HP in max extension. Plus the F25 will perform better below the FV15HP's tune.

F25 looks like an incredible value to me.

Also Jim Wilson found a pic of that finish on the F12G
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I could be wrong on this but...

I think that is at 20Hz with the FV15HP in max output 2port mode. I use max extension 1port mode, From what I can tell a lot of us FV15HP owners do 1port. So the F25 should pull ahead a tad vs FV15HP in max extension. Plus the F25 will perform better below the FV15HP's tune.

F25 looks like an incredible value to me.

Also Jim Wilson found a pic of that finish on the F12G
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

The ported sub tuned to 15hz should be better from 13-25hz in room due to the porting if the 15's are the same. The only way the dual sealed sub will be stronger around the tuning is if they are using better 15's with more displacement. Porting should get you anywhere from 8-12 dBs increase in spl from a sealed sub with the same driver. Dual drivers brings that down 6 dBs so closer to 2-6 dBs of an advantage. For this to be only 1 dB difference the sealed sub must be using a better 15 or there is some limiters or something be used. All this stuff is verified by Ricci's tests.
post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

I could be wrong on this but...

I think that is at 20Hz with the FV15HP in max output 2port mode. I use max extension 1port mode, From what I can tell a lot of us FV15HP owners do 1port. So the F25 should pull ahead a tad vs FV15HP in max extension. Plus the F25 will perform better below the FV15HP's tune.

F25 looks like an incredible value to me.

Also Jim Wilson found a pic of that finish on the F12G
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12G.html

The ported sub tuned to 15hz should be better from 13-25hz in room due to the porting if the 15's are the same. The only way the dual sealed sub will be stronger around the tuning is if they are using better 15's with more displacement. Porting should get you anywhere from 8-12 dBs increase in spl from a sealed sub with the same driver. Dual drivers brings that down 6 dBs so closer to 2-6 dBs of an advantage. For this to be only 1 dB difference the sealed sub must be using a better 15 or there is some limiters or something be used. All this stuff is verified by Ricci's tests.

Thanks for the analysis. They are the same driver. The measurement is at 20Hz and I think the FV15HP is in 2port mode.. but Im not sure.

Please tell me more kind sir.
post #35 of 51
^^^^ Servo'd though
post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

There's a multi sub discount. 10% off each sub. so 20% off the total.

Maybe you should check your math.
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulF View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

There's a multi sub discount. 10% off each sub. so 20% off the total.

Maybe you should check your math.

Why? Are you referring to the fact that they don't discount the shipping and I said total?

10% off of each SUB
post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Why? Are you referring to the fact that they don't discount the shipping and I said total?

10% off of each SUB

10% off each sub does not equal 20% off the total. If an individual sub cost $1000, without discount two would cost $2000. 10% off each sub would be $900 each so two would cost $1800. $1800 is a 10% discount from $2000, not 20%.

Or for those that like equations.

Cost of sub = X
Cost of two subs without discount = X + X = 2X
Cost of two subs with 10% discount = .9(2X)
Cost of two subs with 20% discount = .8(2X)
Cost of sub with 10% discount = .9X
Cost of two subs with 10% discount off each sub = .9X + .9X = .9(X+X) = .9(2X)


Clear as mud?
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironhead1230 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstew100 View Post

Why? Are you referring to the fact that they don't discount the shipping and I said total?

10% off of each SUB

10% off each sub does not equal 20% off the total. If an individual sub cost $1000, without discount two would cost $2000. 10% off each sub would be $900 each so two would cost $1800. $1800 is a 10% discount from $2000, not 20%.

Or for those that like equations.

Cost of sub = X
Cost of two subs without discount = X + X = 2X
Cost of two subs with 10% discount = .9(2X)
Cost of two subs with 20% discount = .8(2X)
Cost of sub with 10% discount = .9X
Cost of two subs with 10% discount off each sub = .9X + .9X = .9(X+X) = .9(2X)


Clear as mud?

haha, thanks. yup totally right.

Brain fart, and I have a math minor.
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

A shipped FV15HP isn't more expensive than a PB12 Plus (unless you want the gloss black finish) and its performance is measured to be better than the PB13 Ultra. That is very high bang for the buck.
Can you provide a link to measured performance of PB13 vs FV15HP? I would really appreciate that.
post #41 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post

Can you provide a link to measured performance of PB13 vs FV15HP? I would really appreciate that.

http://www.data-bass.com/systems
post #42 of 51
Thank you for the link. I am not sure how you come up with this conclusion: "A shipped FV15HP isn't more expensive than a PB12 Plus (unless you want the gloss black finish) and its performance is measured to be better than the PB13 Ultra".
Take a look at total harmonic distortion of both subs at 110dB SPL.
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=61

Which sub offers more linear response?
post #43 of 51
Any update on decision? I have a SubM HP and my room is similarly sized, though not as challenging potentially. Have not had anything in the room that exceeded it, though my buddy's active Cap was just as strong on movies.
post #44 of 51
i just contacted rythmik and was told for a 20x15 room on concrete slab with 8ft cielings, the f25 is the way to go for a combination of music and hom theatre. i was contemplating 2 of the entry level 12's, but was advised to go with the f25.
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpaxadpom View Post

Thank you for the link. I am not sure how you come up with this conclusion: "A shipped FV15HP isn't more expensive than a PB12 Plus (unless you want the gloss black finish) and its performance is measured to be better than the PB13 Ultra".
Take a look at total harmonic distortion of both subs at 110dB SPL.
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=63
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=61

Which sub offers more linear response?
Another interesting observation is how 12.5Hz max spl numbers differ from measurements done on Ultra with Bash amp. It could be the measurement setup/technique or measurement error or the fact that the older sub subsonic filter tuned differently (high pass filter set to lower frequency). If they were tuned in a similar fashion I would expect to see some gain in max SPL numbers with sledge amp with additional 250W. Instead here is what I am seeing:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1464484/two-svs-pb12-pluses-vs-one-seaton-submersive-hp-or-one-svs-pb13-ultra-which-would-you-choose/30
vs audioholics measurements:
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&type=0

15HZ tune:
Sledge amp (1000W) Audioholics 12.5Hz: 89.3dB 16Hz: 105.1Hz
Bash amp (750W) Ilkka 12.5Hz: 93.1dB; 16Hz: 103.5Hz
post #46 of 51
Sorry to get off topic just a little bit, but I have a similar question about my sub set up. I have ($) Epik Empires... They are all placed on the left and right of my screen. I had Mark Seaton come out to my theater and run calibration on my subs for my room. We got the placement just right for max output. I am looking to replace the four Epik Empires with something that will give me the low freq output as well as the mid bass slam I am missing. Any thoughts?
post #47 of 51
What's your budget?
post #48 of 51
$3k
post #49 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt View Post

$3k
Randy

Please start your own thread with these types of questions. You'll get more focused replies in a thread specific to your own questions.

More importantly, let the OP have his thread, Don't take his thread away with your similar, but still off-topic inquiries.

Craig
post #50 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Randy

Please start your own thread with these types of questions. You'll get more focused replies in a thread specific to your own questions.

More importantly, let the OP have his thread, Don't take his thread away with your similar, but still off-topic inquiries.

Craig
Understood. Sorry if I offended anyone.
post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt View Post

Understood. Sorry if I offended anyone.
No offense taken. It's just that you would be better served with your own thread, as would the OP of this thread. smile.gif

Craig
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