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Which ones have full array?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Hello Everyone. Who would have thought it would be this difficult to find a decent TV in 2013?! I have had two 42" LG Plasmas over the last 10 years and been satisfied with both of them, but I figured it's time to get onboard with this new LED technology and buy a nice new 46-50" TV. Well upon doing a lot of research and a lot of looking and actually buying two and being totally unhappy, I am realizing that the technology of these TV's is nowhere NEAR the technology of a Plasma of even 5 years ago. The first set I ended up with was the 50" 50ES5000 from Samsung, and while this set has a stunning picture and excellent blacks, I realized going with the 60hz refresh was a bad idea, as it blurred quite badly, plus the TV suffered from some dark corners that really bothered me, so I returned the set and decided to go with another LG since I've had such good luck with them.. I now have a 47" LG LM5800 3D which has turned out to be 100 times worse than the Samsung! It has unacceptable backlight bleed, poor picture, minimal settings, and although they advertise 120hz, turns out its really only 60hz!!

Which brings me to today. I am going to return the LG and try again. I am now leaning towards the Samsung 46" ES6000 which is the 120hz model above my first TV, mostly because I have learned my lesson on backlight bleed on the edge lit models, and the ES6000 is full array back lighting. The question I have is, no one really seems to advertise whether they are full array or not, including Samsung and this makes no sense because to me this technology is FAR superior to edge lit, they should let it be known! But do any of you have any other suggestions?
I live in Canada, so I only have assess to stores like future shop, Costco and best buy. I am open to your opinions! Oh, And I'd like to stay within that $800 or less range if possible.
post #2 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcann25 View Post

Hello Everyone. Who would have thought it would be this difficult to find a decent TV in 2013?! I have had two 42" LG Plasmas over the last 10 years and been satisfied with both of them, but I figured it's time to get onboard with this new LED technology and buy a nice new 46-50" TV. Well upon doing a lot of research and a lot of looking and actually buying two and being totally unhappy, I am realizing that the technology of these TV's is nowhere NEAR the technology of a Plasma of even 5 years ago. The first set I ended up with was the 50" 50ES5000 from Samsung, and while this set has a stunning picture and excellent blacks, I realized going with the 60hz refresh was a bad idea, as it blurred quite badly, plus the TV suffered from some dark corners that really bothered me, so I returned the set and decided to go with another LG since I've had such good luck with them.. I now have a 47" LG LM5800 3D which has turned out to be 100 times worse than the Samsung! It has unacceptable backlight bleed, poor picture, minimal settings, and although they advertise 120hz, turns out its really only 60hz!!

Which brings me to today. I am going to return the LG and try again. I am now leaning towards the Samsung 46" ES6000 which is the 120hz model above my first TV, mostly because I have learned my lesson on backlight bleed on the edge lit models, and the ES6000 is full array back lighting. The question I have is, no one really seems to advertise whether they are full array or not, including Samsung and this makes no sense because to me this technology is FAR superior to edge lit, they should let it be known! But do any of you have any other suggestions?
I live in Canada, so I only have assess to stores like future shop, Costco and best buy. I am open to your opinions! Oh, And I'd like to stay within that $800 or less range if possible.

bluntly put. if you want to stay within your $800 budget and get a tv with great uniformity and great picture.... stick with the Panny or Sammy plasma's. NOTHING short of $2 grand + tv's are gonna come close. Especially if you are happy with a plasma's picture quality to begin with (and LG doesn't make as nice of plasma's as Panny or Samsung in terms of PQ at that). LCD/LED's have their uses and their benefits but until you get into the Sharp Elite's and other such expensive models they won't hold a candle to the PQ or a plasma.

plus the samsung EH6000 that you were looking at isn't Fully Array, it's a direct lit model
post #3 of 29
I really like my Sony Full Array set. Sony HX950XBR 55". Your going to pay 3K + for the set though. For a decent Edge lit and Canada did have them in stock a few weeks ago try the Sony 850. The 850 has been out of stock for a month or so in the States.
Edited by Browninggold - 3/25/13 at 3:19am
post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
wormwraper, I was misinformed thinking direct lit vs full array = same thing thanks to a cnet review. I did some research and know the differences now, however, the direct lit is definitely better than edge lit. That was by far the best feature of the es5000 I returned.


That being said, I believe what you are saying about sticking with a plasma in order to have good picture quality. Which is sad frankly, because LED far outsell plasma and there are way more selection of LED in "box stores".

But here is what I forgot to put in my original post.. I have a picture window right in front of the TV, so it glares right on the screen. Plasma VERY bad for this, LED was still shiny, but not nearly as bad.. which is why I would like to try to get a good one before admitting defeat and going back to a Plasma.
Edited by lcann25 - 3/25/13 at 5:22am
post #5 of 29
most definitely. I had an EH5000 for a while myself and it had great uniformity in comparison to the Edge lit models I've been through.

the picture window in your living room is a downside for plasma unless you want to increase your budget to the ST50 series of plasma's since they have an anti-glare coating which works really well

my only point with the plasma is that with your budget as it is .... you ARE going to take a step down in picture quality with LED/LCD, there is NO question about it. You can gain no IR issues and the ability to watch in a brightly lit room, but you are going to have to sacrifice image quality for it. As someone who has multiple LED's and Plasma's in his home I had to go through the same thing getting my first LED this year
post #6 of 29
I had a 50" HP plasma in my living room with huge windows. Glare was never a problem during daytime viewing. Never heard any complaints. My plasma died after 10 yrs. and I'm a Sony fanboy now smile.gif and love my 950. But I gave serious consideration to the Panasonic VT50 plasma. Have you looked at those. Rated the best picture by Cnet this past year.
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

bluntly put. if you want to stay within your $800 budget and get a tv with great uniformity and great picture.... stick with the Panny or Sammy plasma's. NOTHING short of $2 grand + tv's are gonna come close. Especially if you are happy with a plasma's picture quality to begin with (and LG doesn't make as nice of plasma's as Panny or Samsung in terms of PQ at that). LCD/LED's have their uses and their benefits but until you get into the Sharp Elite's and other such expensive models they won't hold a candle to the PQ or a plasma.

plus the samsung EH6000 that you were looking at isn't Fully Array, it's a direct lit model

That's what I found when I was shopping in Feb I bought 2 sets for different rooms an Toshiba LCD very good picture and a 50" plasma better picture .
I would have had to go way up the price ladder to get close to the plasma P.Q. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't throw rocks at a Sharp Elite or a Sony HX950
and probably a totl Sammy led those are nice sets but they are not cheap either.
post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

That's what I found when I was shopping in Feb I bought 2 sets for different rooms an Toshiba LCD very good picture and a 50" plasma better picture .
I would have had to go way up the price ladder to get close to the plasma P.Q. Don't get me wrong I wouldn't throw rocks at a Sharp Elite or a Sony HX950
and probably a totl Sammy led those are nice sets but they are not cheap either.

exactly, I'm not trying to bust an LED fans balls or anything, got one myself, but for the price point he's looking at and with the quality he's used to, I'm worried he's gonna be disappointed with the LED's in that range
post #9 of 29
Thread Starter 
I hear what you all are saying, but I've put a ton of research into LED models now, and no research into Plasmas. Other than the motion blur and judder, the eh5000 sammy was a very nice set. Would upgrading to the es6000 cure these problems for me? Anyone on here try a 5000 and then upgrade to the 6000 and end up happier?

The other problem is, Plasma sizes jump from 42" to 50" and nothing in between. I find 50" a little too big for my space, and 42" is what I came from so I still want to upgrade, that's a plus for the LED.
post #10 of 29
Not all edge LEDs are bad, just look at the Sony HX850, Samsung ES8000 (after the firmware update) and the new F8000. All of these TV's have great PQ, great blacks and good uniformity (the F8000 is free of flash lighting and clouding). The problem is that you seem to be buying the lower end models. TV's like the ES5000 have a great price, but their PQ will be mediocre at best. As the people above me have said, you will have to spend more if you want a better TV.

Weather you are buying LCD or Plasma, the higher priced models will usually have much better PQ than the more affordable models. My advise for you would be to wait until black Friday or buy a 2012 model year TV. You will be able to get a much better TV for a bargain price.

The worst thing you can do is keep buying the low end TVs. You being a member on this site, tells me that you care about PQ. I made the mistake of buying a lower model TV and now I can hardly enjoy watching TV. This year, I plan on spending a bit more to have better PQ.
post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcann25 View Post

I hear what you all are saying, but I've put a ton of research into LED models now, and no research into Plasmas. Other than the motion blur and judder, the eh5000 sammy was a very nice set. Would upgrading to the es6000 cure these problems for me? Anyone on here try a 5000 and then upgrade to the 6000 and end up happier?

The other problem is, Plasma sizes jump from 42" to 50" and nothing in between. I find 50" a little too big for my space, and 42" is what I came from so I still want to upgrade, that's a plus for the LED.

the 6000 series actually has MORE motion blur according to the official threads on the two. I had the 5000 and then a 6000 and the motion blu was definitely worse.

and as the poster above me said, if you want to get rid of these issues you really gotta crank up your budget to the 2 grand range. as for the plasmas... right now the Panny UT50 series is right about your price range and blows any LED under $1500-$2000 out of the water on everything but screen glare (would have to upgrade to the ST and VT series to get the anti-glare coating.

I'm not saying you can't get a good set like the Sony 850 or 950's, but not with that budget. in that budget you're stuck with low end LED's and plasma. And in that arena the LED's are the knife in a gun fight compared to the plasmas
post #12 of 29
Thread Starter 
What about the hx750? If I was going to increase my budget to $1000, this one falls into that price category. I really don't want to go any higher than that. Any other suggestions in the $1000 range? I'll take a look at Plasmas as well, I just really would like to stay within that matte screen area because that was my entire reason for upgrading in the first place.. Wife will kill me if I just buy another shiny plasma.
post #13 of 29
On amazon a week ago they had the st50 panny plasma for 949, for a 50". I believe its went up a little since then, but for the money you want to spend, I think you will find by far , , this would be your best option. Depending on your room set up, you may want to look at the s60 Panny that was just released as well. Look at Cnet, http://reviews.cnet.com/televisions/ , 3 of there top 4 tvs were plasma, with the one exception Sharp, costing 5 times the cost of a Panny St50. If you really want to go the led route, I would look at the Samsung 6000 you mentioned above. Just my opinion though.
post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucknuts07 View Post

I would look at the Samsung 6000 you mentioned above. Just my opinion though.

Well now I am concerned about what wormraper said about the 6000 having more blur than the 5000, because to me the 5000 was unacceptable.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by eclipsegt View Post

Not all edge LEDs are bad, just look at the Sony HX850, Samsung ES8000 (after the firmware update) and the new F8000. All of these TV's have great PQ, great blacks and good uniformity (the F8000 is free of flash lighting and clouding). The problem is that you seem to be buying the lower end models. TV's like the ES5000 have a great price, but their PQ will be mediocre at best. As the people above me have said, you will have to spend more if you want a better TV.

Weather you are buying LCD or Plasma, the higher priced models will usually have much better PQ than the more affordable models. My advise for you would be to wait until black Friday or buy a 2012 model year TV. You will be able to get a much better TV for a bargain price.

The worst thing you can do is keep buying the low end TVs. You being a member on this site, tells me that you care about PQ. I made the mistake of buying a lower model TV and now I can hardly enjoy watching TV. This year, I plan on spending a bit more to have better PQ.

One of the best posts I've read on AVS in a loooooong while.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcann25 View Post

Well now I am concerned about what wormraper said about the 6000 having more blur than the 5000, because to me the 5000 was unacceptable.

Despite the 6000 being 120hz and the 500 being 60hz, the reviews I have seen of the 6000 indicate that the 120hz interpolation was completely botched by Samsung where it really does not help any. Here is one such review:
http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/samsung-un40eh6000-led-lcd-hdtv-review/motion

There are more direct-lit LED models hitting the market for the 2013 model year but as of yet, virtually no one has actually seen them and posted any sort of review. Here is an example of at least one new model:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/LG+-+47%22+Class+(46-9/10%22+Diag.)+-+LED+-+1080p+-+120Hz+-+HDTV/7525148.p?id=1218849839345&skuId=7525148

The TCL F3300 series is direct-lit and has gotten good consumer reviews, but I have yet to find a professional review on it:
http://www.amazon.com/LE55FHDF3300ZTA-55-Inch-2-Year-Limited-Warranty/dp/B007EM7NMA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1364325036&sr=8-3&keywords=tcl+tv
There are a couple of short threads about them somewhere so at least a few people have bought them.

However, I agree with most everyone else, unless you go high end LED, Plasma is unbeatable for motion and uniformity. If you have to go with mid to low end LED (which many do for various reasons) you pretty much have to suffer with shortcomings to some degree.
post #17 of 29
I have the 48'' tcl 240h? full back lite LED

SO FAR i AM HAPPY WITH IT
it may not be the best tv but for the money 399 after a 100 rebate from tigerD
but it may not be in stock a lot of places
post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
What's everyone know about the Samsung 51" pn51e530? I just viewed one at my local Sears and it looked real nice to me. And it's on clearance for $599. Also, this seems to be a very highly rated set by consumer reports and other reviews around the web are vey positive.
Edited by lcann25 - 3/26/13 at 4:12pm
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcann25 View Post

What's everyone know about the Samsung 51" pn51e530? I just viewed one at my local Sears and it looked real nice to me. And it's on clearance for $599. Also, this seems to be a very highly rated set by consumer reports and other reviews around the web are vey positive.

I've seen it. It's almost as good as the Panny 50U50/54 set. nice display and actually has a bit less IR issues than the 2012 panny's did so for $599 it's kinda hard to go wrong there
post #20 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wormraper View Post

I've seen it. It's almost as good as the Panny 50U50/54 set.

So in your opinion between the sammy and the panny, which one's the better set? also, if I was to go the the next model up, The sammy E550 vs the Panny UT50, which would be the better set? I have basically narrowed it down to one of the 4 models, and I don't care about smart tv because I've got a XBMC media box, but 3D is possible with the higher models. Also, it looks like sammy uses an anti glare screen on both the 530 and the 550.
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcann25 View Post

So in your opinion between the sammy and the panny, which one's the better set? also, if I was to go the the next model up, The sammy E550 vs the Panny UT50, which would be the better set? I have basically narrowed it down to one of the 4 models, and I don't care about smart tv because I've got a XBMC media box, but 3D is possible with the higher models. Also, it looks like sammy uses an anti glare screen on both the 530 and the 550.

kinda a tossup because of features. the Panny WILL have the better picture. the 2012 plasma's win hands down in terms of PQ IMO. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT the sammy's deal with IR a little better and the anti-glare coating is on the 550 (don't know about the 530).... personally I'd go with Panny because of their excellent build quality even compared to Sammy but they're both good.

if you have a costco you can get the 50UT50 for $749
post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Well, I took another shot at the Samsung and got a 46" EH6000. Was hesitant about the 46 but it was the only one I could find with the TS02 Panel. The 50 and 55's all had who knows what kind of panel. And after a very short 1 hour review I can say I am absolutely stunned! It has everything I loved about the EH5000 such as the inky blacks, gorgeous color pop, ZERO back light bleed because of it being direct lit, and incredible uniformity, but it adds to that a WAY better viewing angle and the clear motion makes it damn near blur and judder free! I am keeping this set. IMO this is the level at where LED TV's should start, then they may have an argument against plasma.
Edited by lcann25 - 3/29/13 at 10:52pm
post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcann25 View Post

Well, I took another shot at the Samsung and got a 46" ES6000. Was hesitant about the 46 but it was the only one I could find with the TS02 Panel. The 50 and 55's all had who knows what kind of panel. And after a very short 1 hour review I can say I am absolutely stunned! It has everything I loved about the ES5000 such as the inky blacks, gorgeous color pop, ZERO back light bleed because of it being direct lit, and incredible uniformity, but it adds to that a WAY better viewing angle and the clear motion makes it damn near blur and judder free! I am keeping this set. IMO this is the level at where LED TV's should start, then they may have an argument against plasma.

Which ES6000 series are you referring to? I see ES6003F & ES 6100F on Samsung's website.
post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjdean View Post

Which ES6000 series are you referring to? I see ES6003F & ES 6100F on Samsung's website.

I believe he meant to type EH6000
post #25 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrostatics View Post

I believe he meant to type EH6000

Sorry about that, Edited post to show the right model.
post #26 of 29
The EH6000 is full array LED back-light and in my visual opinion equal to a good plasma in contrast, sharpness and color. In color probably even better. However, I would recommend that it have a S-PVA ver TS02 panel. I highly recommend the EH series over the edge lit ES series.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman 
The EH6000 is full array LED back-light and in my visual opinion equal to a good plasma in contrast, sharpness and color. In color probably even better. However, I would recommend that it have a S-PVA ver TS02 panel. I highly recommend the EH series over the edge lit ES series.

Some CNET quotes:

''lighter black levels hamper the EH6000's picture quality compared with many TV's'' ''mediocre picture quality'' smile.gif
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un46eh6000/4505-6482_7-35159621.html
post #28 of 29
The problem with some CNET reviews is that they don't always discriminate between panels or include in their review exactly which panel was on the particular product that was actual used in the review process. That is why I listed in a previous post some specifics......S-PVA ver TS02. These are the specs of the model I was referring to and noted in the post.
Never-the-less, CNET is a good place to start.
Would also add that the aforementioned panel the Dynamic Contrast needed to be reduced form the factory setting of "high" to "medium" and Standard mode Contrast reduced from 100 to 90. LED motion was reset to "off".
Inky Blacks are great, as long as deep shadow detail is not lost, which is now the case with the panel mentioned.
Edited by Ironman - 4/18/13 at 12:29am
post #29 of 29
How do you know which panel it has? I am looking at EH6000FXZA from BB. Do you have to look at serial number or something similar?
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