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Bioshock Infinite - Page 2

post #31 of 65
Am I the only one feeling very meh about this game? I am about 3 hours in, but am not crazy about it at all. I want to try to finish it so I can see this amazing ending that everyone keeps talking about, but I am having to force myself to play it.
post #32 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Combat was better in Bioshock 2, but story and setting was more interesting in Infinite. I found my deaths to be from cheap enemies in Infinte. I wish there was a new game+, I'd love to start over in hard mode with all my powers and gear. I also wish they got rid of the two weapon rule. I hate constantly dropping guns trying to figure out what to carry. It also discouraging experimenting since you upgrade limited gun, but then you never want to drop them. Either let us have a weapon wheel, or make the upgrades apply to all gun somehow.

I also wish we had a new game +.
Gameplay wise it was fun, but I agree with you about the limited 2 weapons and 2 vigors. I ended up using 2 or 3 weapons and maybe 4 vigors in the whole game.
post #33 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Combat was better in Bioshock 2, but story and setting was more interesting in Infinite. I found my deaths to be from cheap enemies in Infinte. I wish there was a new game+, I'd love to start over in hard mode with all my powers and gear. I also wish they got rid of the two weapon rule. I hate constantly dropping guns trying to figure out what to carry. It also discouraging experimenting since you upgrade limited gun, but then you never want to drop them. Either let us have a weapon wheel, or make the upgrades apply to all gun somehow.

Are you saying that if you upgrade a shotgun, then drop that for an RPG, that when you pick up another shotgun later it won't have the upgrade? If so, that's not true. I like the games that limit you to a reasonable amount of firepower. It adds a semblance of realism.
Edited by frankthetoad - 4/9/13 at 1:38pm
post #34 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

Am I the only one feeling very meh about this game? I am about 3 hours in, but am not crazy about it at all. I want to try to finish it so I can see this amazing ending that everyone keeps talking about, but I am having to force myself to play it.

I had the exact same thoughts. The first 1-2 hours had me semi-captivated, then the next 3-4 hours bored me to death with repetitive combat until I had to stop playing as it was becoming more of a chore then enjoyable. Watched the ending on youtube rolleyes.gif.

Ended up trading into Amazon for $43 credit
post #35 of 65
I never felt like it was "meh." In fact, I'd rank it as one of the best games of this generation.
post #36 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by americangunner View Post

Am I the only one feeling very meh about this game? I am about 3 hours in, but am not crazy about it at all. I want to try to finish it so I can see this amazing ending that everyone keeps talking about, but I am having to force myself to play it.

Nope. Overhyped, it was ok but got boring after a few hours.
post #37 of 65
I am just struggling to find what's so amazing about it. I almost sent it back to gamefly yesterday, but the wife works this weekend so I am going to just try to beat it over the weekend so I can see the end of the story.
post #38 of 65
You guys bored with the game might be don it rong. I think the fun of this game is 1) the exploration and 2) discovering what combo of gun/vigor works best.
post #39 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

You guys bored with the game might be don it rong. I think the fun of this game is 1) the exploration and 2) discovering what combo of gun/vigor works best.

I love exploration games, and loved the first Bioshock. Explored every nook and cranny I could find and tested out a lot of vigor/weapon combos. It just didn't do it for me. The original Bioshock didn't seem as linear and the combat, although more claustrophobic, seemed to offer greater variety and intensity.

Different strokes for different folks.
post #40 of 65
I just finished this last night. I wasn't thrilled with the combat; too chaotic for my tastes, and too unrelenting. The ending was really interesting, but also too complicated to be absorbed in the few minutes devoted. I think more could have been revealed earlier on.

I feel that the conversations going on about this game are the reason to play it. I'm off to read some of the many essays and commentaries that I was avoiding until I finished the game.
post #41 of 65
It's easy to find rave reviews for this game, so I won't link to any here. Instead, here are a few discussions of the game that I found interesting, even if they aren't raves:


[edit: updated URL]
Edited by TedSeattle - 5/30/13 at 8:34pm
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedSeattle View Post

It's easy to find rave reviews for this game, so I won't link to any here. Instead, here are a few discussions of the game that I found interesting, even if they aren't raves:


Great articles, especially the Kotaku one. Within the article is another good one talking about the FPS/combat problems:

http://kotaku.com/the-problem-with-bioshock-infinites-combat-468530143

These were my main gripes with the game, such an intriguing story, I really don't want to spend over half the time shooting baddies in mostly the same way over and over. Let's have some awesome dialogue trees, puzzles, and maybe some new gameplay elements all together. If I want to get my FPS shooting fix, I'll play some Battlefied 3 online with real life AI opponents.
post #43 of 65
One of the things I enjoyed about the combat in the previous Bioshock games was the opportunity to be sneaky: hacking a health station so it would injure your opponents when they used it in the middle of a battle; sending out an insect swarm to attack splicers while you stayed behind cover; even luring a Big Daddy back to where you had a hacked turret waiting. None of those tactics were available in Bioshock Infinite.
post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TedSeattle View Post

One of the things I enjoyed about the combat in the previous Bioshock games was the opportunity to be sneaky: hacking a health station so it would injure your opponents when they used it in the middle of a battle; sending out an insect swarm to attack splicers while you stayed behind cover; even luring a Big Daddy back to where you had a hacked turret waiting. None of those tactics were available in Bioshock Infinite.

The first vigor you unlock could make enemy machines friendly for like 20 seconds, but then they turned back against you, which didn't make sense to me. But you are right, the combat and ways to approach combat scenarios seemed way more engaging and varied in the first Bioshock, even though it was set in more confined areas.
post #45 of 65
The first Bioshock was point and shoot just like every other FPS.
post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahartig View Post

The first vigor you unlock could make enemy machines friendly for like 20 seconds, but then they turned back against you, which didn't make sense to me.

Yeah, the Possession vigor is sort of like the Hypnotize plasmid from Bioshock, except that somehow you can hypnotize machines as well. The article about the regression in combat mechanics says this about the the difference between Possession and the hacking minigame:
Quote:
Hacking has been removed, but has been streamlined into the Possession ability, a Vigor which works both on living enemies as well as machines. In theory, it's a nice idea, but it lacks the subtlety and nuance of BioShock 2's Hack Darts.

For one, Possession requires no special resources, only Salts, of which there are plenty everywhere (and Elizabeth is more than happy to give you more if you run out). Second, Possession does not have the same measure of risk/reward associated with it. There is only a very brief interruption in your damage output when using Possession, about half a second, so there is little trade-off. Possession also homes in very directly on the nearest target, making accuracy almost a moot point. Third, Possession does not require a mini-game. While normally I hate mini-games, the hacking mini-game in BioShock 2 was nearly perfect: a simple reflex challenge that was easy to do in isolation, but in the heat of combat, mistakes could very easily be made. It was fast enough to not get tedious, but also required discipline to master while fighting. It served its purpose perfectly, but Possession is effectively just another form of crowd control instead of something special.
post #47 of 65
Just finished it. It's a good game, but I'm not sure I'd classify it as a great game. There's a lot of shiny and veneer, but not sure there was a lot of substance. The story is entirely told through the Voxophones for the most part, and it's very weighted toward the end of the game making the rest feel like filler. The epilogue also seems to point to the fact that they realized that their ending really doesn't make sense, or rather can't. The AI was terrible and a step back, the gun's/vigors felt... off, and I really hate that both hacking and a more nuanced approach to combat was removed. The game also forgoes the "hallway shooter" of the original for "arena clearing", which is my least favorite FPS setup.

1999 mode is basically Nighmare! skill level in DOOM. Or it's supposed to be, it's actually quite a bit easier. There's a trophy for beating 1999 without using a dollar bill machine at all, which really shows off the problems with AI, weapons, vigors, and item placement. Basically "Have fun, because we didn't balance it for that" and it shows where the game design breaks down.

That said, I did love everything else and Elizabeth is probably the best AI companion in a game, even outclassing Alex Vance. The setting is fantastic, the use of music and animation is mind blowing, and attention to detail is immaculate. They brought Columbia to life just as well as they pushed Rapture to death.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Considering the content, they really, really missed a chance to make this something special. Especially with an internet connection. I'm thinking dark souls / demon souls here. Infinite possibilities, tears and the like and the game doesn't bother pinging others gameplay concurrently? Terrible waste IMO.

You can assume every time you die you're actually transferred to a different reality which is cool, but hollow. They needed to do more.

Some people had a problem with the violence and gore, but I guess that's the least of my problems.
post #48 of 65
^^^Agreed on pretty much all counts.

My sense is that they came up with some of their core ideas very late in development, so they didn't have time to really push those ideas very far. It meant that the core game was really just a very standard, plain shooter ca. 1999. This would have been revolutionary 10 years ago, but now it's just a very pretty and very polished but very old-fashioned game. And not in a "back to basics" way, but in a "my dad's shooter" sort of way.

Lots of missed opportunities and heavy-handed storytelling.
Edited by confidenceman - 5/25/13 at 5:01pm
post #49 of 65
So I'm working through some things in the story...
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
So in the river Elizabeth would collapse an infinite number of universes. While also NOT collapsing an additional infinite number of universes.

In the end, I think thats what the epilogue is for. Someone at irrational spoke up and they realized their ending really isn't an ending, because there is no solution to a multiverse problem. Such is the problem with Paradoxes.

I also tend to have a problem with the coin flip scene, since as far as I can tell there's no real reason it would always come up heads. It's implying Booker has failed that many times before, and every time he flips heads. But what of the universes where he flips tails? They can't even be the same universe otherwise he'd see his alternative self, so the Lutece twins keep bringing similar Bookers to similar Columbias to get to one that works. But it's not the same Columbia. And in the end the experiment is futile, as one of them claims at the start of the game.

Comcstock was right in the end, false hope is abound in the game and there is no happy ending.

If you thought Rapture was hell, Columbia seems to literally be a deeper, quantum level of Dantes Inferno.

Edited by TyrantII - 5/26/13 at 11:05am
post #50 of 65
Yeah. There's really no point trying to make sense of it all. There are plenty of wikis and blog posts claiming to have mapped the whole thing out. But IMO the whole thing is just a giant narrative cheat. They can just wave their hands and say, "Well, it was all by design, and here's my get out of jail free card to prove it." Pretty big let down.

I've said this in a few other threads on this game, but it really felt to me like a plot conceived by M. Night Shyamalan. Cheap, disappointing, and driven purely by a desire for profit.
post #51 of 65
It's obvious to me that the twist was tacked on. And the worst part is that because it's so rushed, it never hits you, it's just sort of there. Oh well, the game was still pretty good.
post #52 of 65
I'm starting to question whats the bigger evil; CGI concept trailers, or in engine concept trailers

Also wondering if consoles held the game back, as there the level is much, much larger and feels more city like. The final game does feel more polished, but that scene sort of ended up in the game and it's sadly very much reduced in scope and intensity. So much so, I was a bit perplexed at how the whole scene fissiled in game. I think there was only one or two points where AI actually used the skylines, and even then they didn't attack and just used them to get to you on higher levels.
post #53 of 65
Yeah. That was the game I wanted. But somewhere along the line something didn't work right, or there were serious conflicts in the creative directions people at Irrational wanted to go. And the fact that they lost some key team members in the last year of development doesn't speak well to what went down behind closed doors.

To me, it looks like they simplified the game to death. Most times, that kind of editing is a good thing. But here, they cut down too far on the mechanics, level design, and AI until it became too simple and straightforward. But at the same time, they kept just adding and adding to the story until it became nonsense. It was simply too burdened with financial expectation and fan expectation, and it spent far too long in the cooker.
post #54 of 65
DLC has been announced:

Clash in the Clouds (Released today!?)

Burial At Sea trailer
Quote:
The first of BioShock Infinite's three promised instalments of downloadable content is finished and goes on sale today, Irrational Games has revealed.

However, the bigger news is that the second and third DLC packs will form a two-part detective story set in Rapture.

Called Burial at Sea, it will star Booker and Elizabeth as private investigator and femme fatale respectively, and you will get to play as both of them.

The DLC pack released today is called Clash in the Clouds. It's a wave-based arena game that makes the most of Infinite's varied combat system.

It also includes new voxophones, written by creative director Ken Levine, as well as kinetoscopes and other unlockable goodies to keep fans happy.

Clash in the Clouds will cost $5 on Steam, where it should be live at 12pm ET / 5pm BST / 6pm CEST.

Irrational said PlayStation Network and Xbox Live versions will appear as soon as Sony and Microsoft push the button on their weekly updates.

So is Clash of the Clouds any good? You can find out by reading my BioShock Infinite: Clash in the Clouds review. (Spoiler: it's not bad, as stopgaps go.)

As for Burial at Sea Episode One and Two, we don't know exactly when they will be released, but Levine indicated to me that Part One would arrive this year, while Part Two will probably be along a little later.

Burial at Sea is set on New Year's Eve, 1958, the night of the bombing that was the beginning of the end for Rapture. In the first episode you play as Booker, and then in the second episode you play as Elizabeth.

"At the very beginning, you're Booker, private detective in Rapture, in your office and this woman comes in, and you two don't seem to know each other, and we don't explain that," Levine told me.

"We always like to put people in a place where there's a story that ends up making sense, but we don't want the obvious... We like people immediately having a sense of wondering what's going on."

Interestingly, both Clash in the Clouds and Burial at Sea are entirely new content, with Irrational keen to avoid scraping things back up off the cutting room floor.

"We have a bit of a different approach to some people to DLC," Levine explained to journalists who assembled at a Boston hotel for the unveilings.

"When we started this, we really tried to listen to the fans, and to us the fans were clearly saying to us, look, we want the A team on the DLC, we want the same team who did the actual game, we don't want it to be stuff that's on the disc, we don't want it to be stuff that some marketing guy came in and said 'leave that aside'.

"So basically the day we finished - literally, pretty much the day we finished Infinite, we went to work on the DLC, starting pretty much from scratch on the game content."

While Clash in the Clouds is "a sort of a compromise between timeliness and scale", with no huge build-up, Burial at Sea is "a bit of a love letter to the fans", Levine said.

"We're pretty deep into this one - we're about to enter beta. I've been working on this with a lot of the narrative team since we shipped Infinite.

"So it's a two-part experience... The second part has a slight twist to it. You play Booker obviously in the first one, but we were listening to the fans and we know how they feel about Elizabeth, and we decided we wanted to shift things around a little for the third one, so the player character in the third DLC, you get to play Elizabeth, and the gameplay is quite different as her.

"She's not the tank that Booker is, and we'll see how all the story's coming together."


Meh. I thought the point was to get away from Rapture... and here we are going back yet again. And the "stop gap" DLC is more arena gameplay, with the same lame (they're all the same) weapons and enemy AI.

Glad I didn't grab that season pass.
Edited by TyrantII - 7/30/13 at 6:36am
post #55 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

DLC has been announced:

Clash in the Clouds (Released today!?)

Burial At Sea trailerMeh. I thought the point was to get away from Rapture... and here we are going back yet again. And the "stop gap" DLC is more arena gameplay, with the same lame (they're all the same) weapons and enemy AI.

Glad I didn't grab that season pass.


Eventhough I really liked Bioshock Infinite, I never felt like going back again and replay it.
Burial at sea looks good thought
post #56 of 65
I am a little interested in the story DLC, but if this turns into Booker and Elizabeth always in a messed up city in the multiverse; It'll be disappointing. A tong in cheek fan fiction style would serve me better.
post #57 of 65
Yeah, at this point I feel like I wasted money on the season pass as I'm not at all interested in the arena type gameplay. I guess it's still cheaper in the the long run considering that both of the story DLCs will be $15 each.
post #58 of 65
I need to do 1999 mode and no vending machines run.
post #59 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

I need to do 1999 mode and no vending machines run.

I found the last part cheap and frustrating that I never really wanted to try the harder difficulties.
I don't mind to play games in harder mode but as long as it is fair and dying because of your own mistakes.

Good luck!
post #60 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthetoad View Post

I need to do 1999 mode and no vending machines run.


Prepare to see how broken the mechanics are. I went through that right off the bat. Luckily it's only the dollar Bill machines you can't use (weapon and plasmid machines are ok).

The game feels much better on the lower settings, but it's basically just a shooting galley romp there. In 1999 mode, its just cheap with glaring problems in weapons balance and AI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

I found the last part cheap and frustrating that I never really wanted to try the harder difficulties.
I don't mind to play games in harder mode but as long as it is fair and dying because of your own mistakes.

Good luck!

The castle protect part? Funny enough I found that super easy and beat it in one try on 1999 mode.
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