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help deciding on new speakers for 7.1 system - Page 10

post #271 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

I tried to order the second sub but they are waiting on cabinets for 6 weeks, so i will get it in that time grrrrr. I ordered a mini dsp to equalize my sub/subs. I have flat response from 14-30 hz at my listening position but tgem it drops untill 50-55 hz, where i get a massive room spike and i used peq to tame that back to where it supposed to be, but then drops again at 60. Hopefully the dsp will get me flat across the board. Shouldnt be hard at all.

Idk what speakers you guys are talking about, but man if i were you if get the ascends as they sounds phenominal at rediculous volumes and im now very biased.

Great to hear that you're happy with your speaker choice! biggrin.gif Sorry to hear about the delay with the sub, but as they said back in the 70's: "patience, grasshopper!" Yes, I just dropped a Kung Fu TV show reference.

You'll find as you go through more movies and multi-channel music discs that surround content varies in amount and intensity. I have some great SA-CD and DVD-Audio discs that have instruments and vocals spread throughout all the channels.

AIX Records makes some superb DVD-Audio and now Blu-ray music performance discs where you can choose the listening position that suits your tastes... all in audiophile multi-channel mixes. Some emphasize the front soundstage with hall ambience in the surrounds, and another mix puts you right smack in the middle of the performance with stuff going on all around you.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 4/23/13 at 7:06pm
post #272 of 314
To start with, the HTMs are not at all a match with the CMT340s, despite being from the same company. A close match would be the CBM170s. Timbre matching is important for the front stage, but not nearly as much for the surround speakers. The surround speakers mostly only do ambient noises and effects noises, and for that sort of content it doesn't matter as much to have matching speakers, especially considering with how surround channels are mixed in the soundtrack. I think the Polk speakers would do fine for surround channels. The Bose might do ok too if you have a preference for the bipole/dipole type sound. As for the Klipsch, if they are not from the quintet line of Synergy speakers I think they would do very good, however you do not want the little ones with the 3" woofer, that would have zero bass extension and not even be adequate for surround speakers. The full size Synergy speakers would be great for surrounds though.

And yes, the Hsu VTF3 mk4 would beat the PB12. Its cousin, the Outlaw LFM-1 EX, which is based off an older VTF3 design, beat the PB12, and their performance can be compared here. The VTF3 mk4 is like the Outlaw, except it has more powerful deep bass and more features.
post #273 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post

Thanks, that's good to know the speakers will be adequate to fill my room. I like the idea of wall mount speakers and the htm200 look great. I have heard the VTF-3 mk4 was a decent sub, do you think it would win over an svs?

What cel4145 just said, but also check out Rythmik 15" subwoofers (Axxion appears to like his), especially with their high power plate amps included (ported too, if your emphasis is movies). You can get a small discount if you buy your HTM-200 SE speakers and the sub through Ascend Acoustic's website. You can ask and see if they'll extend their sale price of the CMT-340 stands, the TP-24's, even though you might be buying them third-party... since you'd be getting other stuff from them to round out the system.

Are the CMT-340's you're going to be listening to the newer SE models or the first, non-SE versions?

Check to see if Ascend has the best price on the Omnimount swivel brackets that can attach to the HTM-200's for wall mounting.

If you're going with the Pioneer 1522k... grab it at a participating Costco while you still can! At that price they go fast.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 4/23/13 at 7:01pm
post #274 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

To start with, the HTMs are not at all a match with the CMT340s, despite being from the same company. A close match would be the CBM170s. Timbre matching is important for the front stage, but not nearly as much for the surround speakers. The surround speakers mostly only do ambient noises and effects noises, and for that sort of content it doesn't matter as much to have matching speakers, especially considering with how surround channels are mixed in the soundtrack. I think the Polk speakers would do fine for surround channels. The Bose might do ok too if you have a preference for the bipole/dipole type sound. As for the Klipsch, if they are not from the quintet line of Synergy speakers I think they would do very good, however you do not want the little ones with the 3" woofer, that would have zero bass extension and not even be adequate for surround speakers. The full size Synergy speakers would be great for surrounds though.

And yes, the Hsu VTF3 mk4 would beat the PB12. Its cousin, the Outlaw LFM-1 EX, which is based off an older VTF3 design, beat the PB12, and their performance can be compared here. The VTF3 mk4 is like the Outlaw, except it has more powerful deep bass and more features.

Actually, both the CBM-170's and the HTM-200's are designed to go with the CMT-340's due to similar tweeters and poly gel driver material. The CBM-170's go a little deeper than the HTM-200's due to a larger mid-bass driver and reflex porting for more air movement. The HTM-200's are just easier to use as surround speakers since they aren't rear ported like the CBM-170's. Though, you could use the CBM-170's as upgraded surrounds with different side clamping brackets like the Videosecu mounts at Amazon.

Again, I'll have to disagree with your opinion about not timbre matching the fronts and surrounds as closely as possible. smile.gif
post #275 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post


If the PB12 didn't have that feature, quite possible it might go as loud as the VTF-3 MK4. Do you need that extra SPL? In that review, Audioholics certified the PB12 for rooms up to 5,000 cubic feet.
One could argue if you don't need the extra SPL, might as well go for a BIC F12. If you are going to spend the money, you might as well get commensurate performance for your dollar. And recommending a PB12 in a 5000 cubic foot room is absurd. Would you want a PB12 NSD in a 5'k^3 room? I'm guessing no.
post #276 of 314
Sounds like the svs would giv me that added peace of mind and they have great warranty. The dual port hcu might make it louder. To bad they are the same damn price or picking one or the other world be easy.
post #277 of 314
Thread Starter 
If your crossing over at 80, then i wouldnt go with the 170s as they are alot bigger then the 200s and shouldnt be wall mounted, idk where you plan on putting them though. The 200s have lots of clearity with low end sound. I agree with dan that they are designed to match, i even remember ascend claiming this as well. I play alot of music, and when i switch from two channel to multi channel, the sound is seamless, they blend in perfectly unlike some orher speakers i tried. the htms to my ears sound just like the 340s. Very nuetral and accurate, with clearity. Your avr will let you cross over down to 50 as well but whats the point. My sub cannot be localized at 80 unlike the denon/klipsch combo i had. Didnt ascend say they dont have any more of those wall mounts, regardless of it being on the website?
post #278 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

What cel4145 just said, but also check out Rythmik 15" subwoofers (Axxion appears to like his), especially with their high power plate amps included (ported too, if your emphasis is movies). You can get a small discount if you buy your HTM-200 SE speakers and the sub through Ascend Acoustic's website. You can ask and see if they'll extend their sale price of the CMT-340 stands, the TP-24's, even though you might be buying them third-party... since you'd be getting other stuff from them to round out the system.

Are the CMT-340's you're going to be listening to the newer SE models or the first, non-SE versions?

Check to see if Ascend has the best price on the Omnimount swivel brackets that can attach to the HTM-200's for wall mounting.

If you're going with the Pioneer 1522k... grab it at a participating Costco while you still can! At that price they go fast.

The center is a SE model, not sure about the L & R speakers. Are the new ones much better than the non SE models?
post #279 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

If your crossing over at 80, then i wouldnt go with the 170s as they are alot bigger then the 200s and shouldnt be wall mounted, idk where you plan on putting them though. The 200s have lots of clearity with low end sound. I agree with dan that they are designed to match, i even remember ascend claiming this as well. I play alot of music, and when i switch from two channel to multi channel, the sound is seamless, they blend in perfectly unlike some orher speakers i tried. the htms to my ears sound just like the 340s. Very nuetral and accurate, with clearity. Your avr will let you cross over down to 50 as well but whats the point. My sub cannot be localized at 80 unlike the denon/klipsch combo i had. Didnt ascend say they dont have any more of those wall mounts, regardless of it being on the website?

I didn't know about the lack of stock for the Omni HTM-200 brackets... good to know. Thanks! They should update their site to give customers a heads up.
post #280 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

i wouldnt go with the 170s as they are alot bigger then the 200s and shouldnt be wall mounted

I disagree with this. I'm wall-mounting Sierra-1s without any problems, and they're larger than the 170s.
post #281 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post

The center is a SE model, not sure about the L & R speakers. Are the new ones much better than the non SE models?

You'd probably need to check with Ascend on what they upgraded... sometimes it'll be a newer tweeter and/or cross-over circuit board that helps refine the sound quality. You should also double check with the seller on the left and rights. By the way, what kind of discount are they offering on their set of CMT-340's compared to new SE's? Did they mention if they were selling the CMT-340 stereo pair with the TP-24 stands included?
post #282 of 314
Found out the center 340 is SE and the left and right are original cmt-340s. They are asking $400 for all three. Is that still worth it or should I just buy the center and get the new SE cmt-340s? I read they changed the tweeters with the SE model.
post #283 of 314
While I have Ascend 170SEs, 200SEs, Sierra1s (pre and post NrT), no 340 experience let alone 340 vs 340SE. If it's as subtle a difference as Sierra-1 to the NrT upgrade I wouldn't worry a whole lot about it, altho I'd prefer the later version. I bought my Sierra-1s (L/C/R) used, with only the center upgraded to NrT tweeter, then did the L/R myself later. The newer tweeter for at least the NrT came with a different crossover board, assume the SE upgrade was similar but not sure (as don't think that was offered aftermarket like the NrT tweeter was and maybe the upcoming Raal ribbon will be on the Sierra-1).
post #284 of 314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by holt7153 View Post

I disagree with this. I'm wall-mounting Sierra-1s without any problems, and they're larger than the 170s.
The 170s are rear ported. You need air flow, ascend reccomends 3 inches of distance for the 170s. I has some sattelites that were rear ported directly wall mounted and bass was very limited.
post #285 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post

Found out the center 340 is SE and the left and right are original cmt-340s. They are asking $400 for all three. Is that still worth it or should I just buy the center and get the new SE cmt-340s? I read they changed the tweeters with the SE model.

Even though I emphasize the importance of timbre matching all the speakers as much as possible, the front three are hyper critical for a seamless screen sound stage. As much as it pains me due to costs, I'd say just get the center used if its in excellent working condition (if the seller will break up the set, that is) and buy the new matching SE models for the left and right from Ascend (and get the stands).
post #286 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

The 170s are rear ported. You need air flow

Correct, and there are wall mounts designed with this in mind.
post #287 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

One could argue if you don't need the extra SPL, might as well go for a BIC F12. If you are going to spend the money, you might as well get commensurate performance for your dollar. And recommending a PB12 in a 5000 cubic foot room is absurd. Would you want a PB12 NSD in a 5'k^3 room? I'm guessing no.

Josh Ricci says it's a good performer for rooms up to 5,000 cubic feet. I trust his opinion over yours, since he has actually tested the sub and knows more about subs in general, too rolleyes.gif
post #288 of 314
Thanks for all be advice guys. I will call ascend tomorrow to see if I can buy the tweeters to match the SE model. I think I can get the center alone if need be. It is a sweet deal.
post #289 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Josh Ricci says it's a good performer for rooms up to 5,000 cubic feet. I trust his opinion over yours, since he has actually tested the sub and knows more about subs in general, too rolleyes.gif

More powerful subs can get swallowed up in smaller rooms when conditions aren't optimal. You can trust Ricci's opinion (but lets get real, Ricci himself would probably not be at all happy with one of these in a 5k room), but I'll trust his measurements, which average 106 dB from 20 hz on up. That isn't bad, but it isn't good when you factor in the price and the alternatives. Besides that, you dodged the point of my reply- I didn't ask if Ricci would want one in a 5k room, I asked if YOU would. Ricci's reviews are not a substitute for personal experience.
post #290 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

I didn't ask if Ricci would want one in a 5k room, I asked if YOU would.

This isn't about me. It isn't about you. What I would want and what would suit the OP are not the same things. I think most people would be very happy with the PB12-NSD in a 3600 cubic feet room.
post #291 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post

Thanks for all be advice guys. I will call ascend tomorrow to see if I can buy the tweeters to match the SE model. I think I can get the center alone if need be. It is a sweet deal.

Just make sure it's nothing more than a tweeter swap and not an entire circuit board as well... it may end up being a better deal (and less hassle) to just buy a new stereo pair.
post #292 of 314
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

This isn't about me. It isn't about you. What I would want and what would suit the OP are not the same things. I think most people would be very happy with the PB12-NSD in a 3600 cubic feet room.
2 f15hp's or nothing!!
post #293 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

This isn't about me. It isn't about you. What I would want and what would suit the OP are not the same things. I think most people would be very happy with the PB12-NSD in a 3600 cubic feet room.
Most people might be happy with a single PB12, but I think they would be happier with a VTF3 or XV15, those subs will get them closer to a commercial cinema sound.
post #294 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

2 f15hp's or nothing!!

biggrin.gif
post #295 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

Most people might be happy with a single PB12, but I think they would be happier with a VTF3 or XV15, those subs will get them closer to a commercial cinema sound.

I disagree. There is no evidence to support that the VTF-3 MK4 will do that (I don't know enough about the XV15).
post #296 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

I disagree. There is no evidence to support that the VTF-3 MK4 will do that (I don't know enough about the XV15).

If the Outlaw LFM EXs can, the VTF3s absolutely can. The XV15 outguns the PB12 easily, compare their measurements at data-bass.com.
post #297 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

If the Outlaw LFM EXs can, the VTF3s absolutely can. The XV15 outguns the PB12 easily, compare their measurements at data-bass.com.

You keep getting hung up on the VTF-3 because it's untested. No reason to consider that sub when someone can choose between the PB12, EX, and XV15 based on the data-bass measurements--and not just the max SPL, but giving consideration to SQ based on the distortion measurements.
post #298 of 314
There is no reason to think that the VTF3 would somehow perform worse than an LFM-1 EX. Why would the guy who designed them both somehow make his own version of that sub worse than the one he designed for another company years ago? His design is better on paper, and it's two generations of improvements ahead of the Outlaw sub. Also, lets not pretend that the VTF3 is somehow a completely unknown quantity. The mk3 version has been submitted to lots of reviews, and has been tested extensively by both Audioholics and Home Theater Shack. Given that every single major specification between the mk3 and mk4 is exactly the same, there is no reason to think it will perform differently. Also, as owner of the mk3 and LFM, I can tell you that their performance characteristics are about what one would expect given their design differences, ie roughly the same except cleaner deep bass on the VTF3.
post #299 of 314
SO.. I spoke with Dina over at Ascend who was super friendly. She said although there is a difference between the cmt-340 and the SE model they both will sound great. Since I would be getting the cmt-340's for the same price as a set of b-stock HTM-200 SE it makes more sense to use them as rear surrounds. I would get a new pair of cmt-340se for the front so the front three would be identical and use htm-200's as my rear surrounds. Im going to checkout these speakers tomorrow and if they sound and look good totally getting them.

Then I need to start saving up for a sub, Dina suggested I go with a 15". Although she wasn't able to list brand names she said most anything in my budget (800-1000 ish range) for that size would work and to go with a ported sub because it would be for movies. Basically what everyone on here has repeated.
post #300 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post

Then I need to start saving up for a sub, Dina suggested I go with a 15". Although she wasn't able to list brand names she said most anything in my budget (800-1000 ish range) for that size would work and to go with a ported sub because it would be for movies. Basically what everyone on here has repeated.

If you go with one of the Rythmik subs that Ascend has listed on their website, you would need a 15". The 12" Rythmiks they have listed are sealed subs that have less output than the 12" ported subs previously listed in this thread.
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