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The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 95

post #2821 of 6910
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blammo585 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Although Denon may have removed the Quick Select buttons from the current E/X model remote controls, the Quick Select IR commands from previous year's model remotes still work. Purchase a Harmony remote and download the predecessor model to the Harmony remote along with your current model of course and you can then use the Quick Select buttons from the Harmony remote, not to mention gain WAF points in the process. smile.gif

Doing some more playing around with it, I put it on Network/Pandora and noticed the sub at +2.0. I went back to CBL/Sat and changed to +2.5 and then back to Pandora and the sub was still at +2.0. So these 2 sources are maintaining separate settings. But CBL/Sat, Media Player, and Bluray all seem to be sharing the settings. Also, I've noticed that I will revert back to the -12.0 sub setting on Network more often than on other sources. I've sent an email to Denon to see what they tell me.

Are you sure it's not maintaining the settings by SURROUND MODE? Channels levels are not memorized by source unless you are using Quick Select. But they ARE memorized by surround mode "family". So if you are using Stereo for Pandora but he Cbl/Saf or BD source are all in a multichannel mode (PLII or Dolby Digital or DTS) that would lead you to th false conclusion that the INPUT is the issue when it's actually the SURROUND MODE.
post #2822 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Interestingly enough the UK version the AVR-X2000 does not include RS-232.

The non-USA units sometimes have some differences to their USA counterparts .... eg. the 231X/X3000 non-USA models have a full set of main zone pre-outs, whereas the lowest model in the USA is the 331XCI/X4000.
post #2823 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Once you do an initial processor reset, or a few smile.gif , is there ever any other need to do it as long as the unit doesnt start acting funky?

Shouldn't be no .. .the only purpose for doing this is to resolve a problem.
post #2824 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

For the price of the 4520, get the x4000 and an Outlaw 7150 smile.gif


I had the 4520 sold it went to the 8801 Marantz and now to the X4000 for the money you cant beat the X4000 - I added a 2 ch amp for the mains since there 4ohm
post #2825 of 6910
I imagine the amp is plenty sufficient for me (98db sensitivity Klipsch towers crossed at 80hz), but I could see where others would need a dedicated amp with a 5.1 or 7.1 system, vs the Denons onboard. Whatever amp they use in the 125 watt models seems to be a good one.

I also like the Yamaha 2000 series Aventage, its $1500 and weighs 10 more pounds, also has good power. Just no Audyssey.
post #2826 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

I had the 4520 sold it went to the 8801 Marantz and now to the X4000 for the money you cant beat the X4000 - I added a 2 ch amp for the mains since there 4ohm

Very interesting...I keep swinging between the X4000 or 4520 (in the UK and the price difference is £1,200 vs £1,500 respectively). I'll be using a separate 3 channel amp for the LCRs (MK MP150 also 4ohm) so less requirements for the (small) extra power of the 4520.

I've never bought a 'top of the range' model of anything (AV or otherwise) since I always seem to settle one step (or more) down, so I keep thinking I should just get the 4520 for the hell of it just to break the habit. redface.gif At least I'd have the option in future for 11.2 though realistically I doubt I'll go more than 9.2 in my current room anyway, so the X4000 is the logical choice (and the £300 would mostly pay for one of my new DIY sub drivers).

I was particularly interested in the quick memory settings mentioned earlier: It would really be useful if there was a quick way to be able to change to a phantom centre set up for TV use and the full LCR setting for projector use. Can the quick memory setting allow this? I'd only need to be able to change to phantom centre for my PVR/TV input since I never use my BluRay with my TV anyway*. Even better if I can share the same input so that TV sound (analogue) and PVR sound (optical) an share the same input on the X4000



*It might sound an odd request, but I'm putting my centre behind my TV so that when using my projector the TV lifts up (in front of a window hence why I don't want it permanently that high) then the centre is 'revealed' and in perfect alignment with the left and right speakers. Projector sound is the priority since TV is mostly just background sound anyway but with the TV in front of the centre day to day, I figure it may as well change to phantom centre when not using the projector.

EDIT: I can see that I could assign 1 quick select setting to use any of the ProLogic II Music modes (apart from IIz) and set the centre width such that the centre is virtually OFF.

Then for projector use use DTS NEO:X or ProLogic II Movie Modes for the BluRay and PVR optical inputs on quick select 2 and 3.

I think that could be a reasonable work round as I can't see a way to quickly change the speaker configuration like I can with my Arcam AV9 (it has 5 memories which can all be configured different numbers & sizes of speakers, levels and crossovers).
Edited by Kelvin1965S - 9/28/13 at 8:26am
post #2827 of 6910
No Center channel dialogue

Although it's mentioned in my Troubleshooting FAQ in post #3 of this thread, worth repeating as I just experienced it for the first time. I was watching a rebroadcast of Homeland on a different channel than Showtime (it's home channel). The show itself is produced using a DD 5.1 audio track but for some reason the TV station chose to send only a stereo signal over that 5.1 audio track (which does happen from time to time) so there was no audio coming from my center speaker, rather the dialogue was spread between my FL/FR speakers as would be expected using the STEREO surround mode. And because the AVR believes that a 5.1 signal is being received (as can be evidenced by pressing the INFO button), there is no way to use a simulation mode to pass audio to the center channel. So again ... just an FYI in case it happens to you some day.
post #2828 of 6910
You need to start titling these posts "JD's Random Lessons" or something. They are good and helpful reminders.
post #2829 of 6910
Quick question. When I use airplay to play music from spotify, only my front two speaker of 5.1 setup seem to play on my x4000. Anyways to get all the speakers to play music?
post #2830 of 6910
Hold down the music button towards the bottom of the remote and the different options will come up. Choose a surround processing mode like Dolby or Neo.
post #2831 of 6910
I've lost video output on my E400. I cannot even pull up the OSD. I've tried swapping HDMI cables but still no go. I even hooked it up to a another TV but still get no OSD. I tried a soft reset (unplugged) and a hard reset (power + source < + >). The monitor out was hook up to a Samsung PN64F8500 (ARC port). Source was Comcast box and bluray connected to its respective ports. Is there any other way to reset this thing before I call Denon?
post #2832 of 6910
^^
Make sure to try every HDMI input on the unit. Also try a series of microprocessor resets, at least 3-4. Was there a recent thunderstorm that resulted in any nearby lighting strikes?
post #2833 of 6910
AVScience - authorized Denon and Marantz dealer

I've had a few calls on this so thought I would just post it. As is the case with the majority of the "authorized" Denon resellers, AVScience is not listed on the "on-line" reseller web page, but rather under the "Dealer Listing" section after checking the "All Authorized Dealers" radio button.




post #2834 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

when using my projector the TV lifts up

Hi Kelvin, I am curious to know how you plan to raise and lower your TV - I am thinking about how I might do this with mine.
post #2835 of 6910
I'm in the biz and I want to setup a Denon AVR (X4000 or 4520) in one of my showrooms. It's a 7.1 room now with in-ceiling surrounds and in wall surround rears. I want to set it up as a 6.1 (phantom center) and two 4.1 systems with Bookshelf fronts (traditional layout) and flip it around to demo the in wall speakers as fronts while still using the in ceiling surrounds and sub in both systems. What's the best way to configure this so as not to take forever fumbling through layers of menus while the customers wait. Any of you remote gurus wanna chime in here or suggest a script?
post #2836 of 6910
Thread Starter 
Um, that's very much not standard functionality. It's definitely going to require some wacky customization. Forget about fumbling through menus, how are you going to switch that many speaker wires? If I understand correctly you are talking about three different setups (6.2 & 4.1 & 4.1), with not only the need to switch between setups but also "remap" certain speakers to different channels (the in walls will be surround backs in one config but the fronts in another).

So even if you said screw calibration, I'm just going to zero out all levels and distances (the best buy showroom approach) you'd still have the issue of switching AND remapping the physical speakers. If you want to do a somewhat calibrated setup (i.e. adjusting speaker levels, distances, and possibly bass management uniquely for each setup) then it's even more cumbersome as there is no standard function way to physically switch the settings en masse without waiting 10 minutes for a config file to load. A programmable remote macro would be insane to try and engineer for that.

So to make it slick (I'm assuming you'd love to be able to control this from a touchscreen or tablet or something), in addition to the physical hardware needs of switching the speakers (which you may already have being a professional showroom) you would probably need some developer / custom installer type who can program this automation into a web controlled system, firing either IP commands or serial through RS-232. I am not a programmer or custom installer so I don't know if it's possible to fire off a big batch command that can just rewrite all speaker config settings in one data blast, or if you need to programs a string of sequential commands and wait for them to fire, but I have to imagine its feasible. But not "feasible" in the "I can get it for free from an Internet forum" sense, but in the "I probably need to pay a professional to do it" sense. Hopefully you have some connections to savvy custom installers who know how to create a script that will work, being in the biz.

Now, all that said, none of the above has any EQ and definitely not Audyssey calibration. There is no way to switch that quicker than waiting 10 minutes for a data load from a networked PC.

The only simpler solution, and definitely the easiest one in all respects, is simply to have two or three different receivers powering the different setups. That's the approach of most showrooms that I've seen... On one wall you have a speaker setup with a console and a flat screen tv on top and a receiver and bdp in the console, turn 90 degrees and repeat on the next well, and so forth. Each one is independent, although with a speaker switcher it would probably be relatively easy to "share" surrounds and a sub. But it's easy to switch and calibrate each setup independently exactly as you want for its unique speaker configuration.

Beyond that are the real fancy setups (best buy magnolia near me) with a wall full of receivers and tons of speakers in the room, and a computer touchscreen monitor that let's you activate any receiver and any pair of fronts, center, surrounds, etc. but even then you aren't getting calibrated setups, just physical switching. And no remapping (you can't flip the room and turn fronts into surround backs).

So it's a tough nut to crack. If you don't want to set up multiple receivers, I think you need someone with programming/automation experience to build that back end.
post #2837 of 6910
Thanks for the reply Batpig but let me try to explain this a little better. This rectangular room is set-up in a typical 7.1 configuration with Bookshelf mains, in-ceiling surrounds and in-wall surround rears. 6 speakers total + phantom center + sub.

I want to re assign the internal surround back amps and make them Front "B" speakers. This will allow the customers to stand up, turn around and hear these killer in-wall speakers as front mains with the in ceiling surrounds as well as the sub. Thats the reason for the phantom center.

So I'd like to have #1) 6.1 channels, Bookshelf main, in ceiling surrounds, in wall surround rears and a sub.

#2) 4.1 channels, re assigned surround back in walls playing as Front "B", in ceiling surrounds and sub.

Im also wondering about an external amp for the bookshelves. When I switch to Front B, I guess the preamp outputs will still be sending a signal to the amp which will try powering the Front "A" bookshelves. I could manually power the amp off or maybe figure out a way to configure a 12 volt trigger.

I know this sounds crazy and is outside the box but I only have so much space and I really want to demo these killer in wall speakers. ALOT of my customers wives like the idea of high end audio but don't want all the equipment in there great room.
Edited by Tom Grooms - 9/30/13 at 5:29am
post #2838 of 6910
Tom,

I'll try to provide a summary of what BP wrote, since some of the ideas were buried in other text, as well as some of my own ideas. smile.gif

Using the A/B front channel switch is a non-starter. For one thing, when you reverse orientations, the right and left-side speakers are reversed. Their calibrations are unlikely to be identical if there's anything at all asymmetric about the demo room -- like seating and equipment racks.

There are two "obvious" solutions:

1. The quickest way to switch speaker configurations is to have two receivers, each pre-calibrated for a specific configuration. Use mechanical break-before-make speaker switches to select between them.

2. If you can't afford two receivers, you can save and restore the receiver's internal settings to a PC. A reload of settings typically takes about 10 minutes, so your customers need to be patient or otherwise entertained. Again, you'd have to use mechanical switches to change the speaker configuration.

Also, don't forget that people's audio memory is extremely short term. Ten minutes is far too long to wait in order to get an honest comparison unless one set of speakers sounds grossly different from the others. Since the intent of Audyssey is to make the room/speaker combination much more accurate, it will have minimized those differences so they're very unlikely to be that big.

I hope these comments help a little.
post #2839 of 6910
Good stuff Sheldon, thanks. Never thought about the speaker orientation being reversed. I wonder if anyone would even notice? The only problem with two receivers is equipment rack space. As in, there isn't anymore available. I have a two channel network receiver for outdoor lanai demos A/B on Wall and in ceiling , 2 amps, a home theater bypass preamp, Blu-ray, power, PS3, SACD/DVD-A and NuVo in that space already.

I guess I just need to hook it up and play with it. All I want to do for Front B in-wall mains is play a short music demo and get these customers away from Bose :-)
post #2840 of 6910
Oh. Bose. Maybe there would be a major difference even after running Audyssey! wink.gif Of course, there's always the contribution from having a real subwoofer.

Another possibility would be to compare the two sets of speakers Audyssey disabled, and then engage Audyssey to demonstrate the improvement that it provides for one of the sets. Serious listeners would then insist on hearing it with the other set, but might be willing to wait for the reload.
post #2841 of 6910
Does anyone know if these Denons will be updated to HDMI 2.0 through firmware update? I own the X3000 as of 5 days ago!
post #2842 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSteel View Post

Does anyone know if these Denons will be updated to HDMI 2.0 through firmware update? I own the X3000 as of 5 days ago!

A previous response on this thread indicated that it will not be a firmware upgrade and you will have to purchase one of the 2014 models to get HDMI 2.0
post #2843 of 6910
^^
Correct.
post #2844 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by balinton View Post

A previous response on this thread indicated that it will not be a firmware upgrade and you will have to purchase one of the 2014 models to get HDMI 2.0
Well you can always take it back.
post #2845 of 6910
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Make sure to try every HDMI input on the unit. Also try a series of microprocessor resets, at least 3-4. Was there a recent thunderstorm that resulted in any nearby lighting strikes?

I thought power + source < + > was the microprocessor reset. I only tried it 2 times, are you saying to do it about 3-4 times? I live in S Florida so there is always a risk of lighting. I do have it plugged into a power conditioner and surge protector. I know the unit is supposed to produce the OSD without any source input. I did that when I first bought it. I can still play audio from the tuner, all speakers are working.
post #2846 of 6910
I have just upgraded to an X4000 and have a couple of questions. All signal connections are HDMI. Main zone has TV (monitor 1 - ARC is off) and projector (monitor 2) - Zone 2 is a bedroom TV.

1. I am watching TV in the main zone and my wife turns on the TV in the bedroom. The TV in the main zone loses HDMI handshake for several seconds. Is there any way to stop this happening>?

2. When I use the remote to turn off the X4000, the green led stays on and the front panel says 'main zone off'. I then have to select zone 2 on the remote and turn it off as well. Is it possible to turn the AVR off with one button push?
post #2847 of 6910
Last week I purchased a X3000 with Golden Ear Triton 3'speakers. Watching movies is spectacular, however I am less than impressed with digital music. Running my ALAC files through iTunes either on the Denon or on Apple TV is not good, Pandora free edition is a bit better and a CD through my BluRay is better but not what I was expecting. Any ideas?
post #2848 of 6910
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisher191 View Post

I have just upgraded to an X4000 and have a couple of questions. All signal connections are HDMI. Main zone has TV (monitor 1 - ARC is off) and projector (monitor 2) - Zone 2 is a bedroom TV.

1. I am watching TV in the main zone and my wife turns on the TV in the bedroom. The TV in the main zone loses HDMI handshake for several seconds. Is there any way to stop this happening>?

2. When I use the remote to turn off the X4000, the green led stays on and the front panel says 'main zone off'. I then have to select zone 2 on the remote and turn it off as well. Is it possible to turn the AVR off with one button push?

1. This is normal, and a consequence of the HDMI splitter/matrix functionality. The HDMI handshake must be renegotiated when another display is added to the HDMI chain.

2. If you mean an "all zone power off" command, that will power off all zones together, then the best bet is the smartphone app. Harmony remotes and other universals can have this command too. AFAIK it's not possible from the factory remote.
post #2849 of 6910
Thread Starter 
So I just had a weird thing happen with my X4000. I was enjoying my normal "wife and kids are asleep" evening Roku viewing, and all of a sudden I must have had some weird power blip because for a split second, all my A/V components flickered off and then turned back on with a flurry of relay clicks. Seemed fine upon power restoration, but the volume level was really low, like Dynamic EQ and Volume had been disabled. So I hit the Dynamic EQ/Vol button on my Harmony and got the dreaded "Not Available: Run Audyssey" message on my screen!

Poop. Audyssey calibration wiped out (and I had JUST recalibrated yesterday! with a rare moment with the wife out of the house for a bit). And, of course, I hadn't yet had a chance to do a Network Save of my new calibration settings. Fingers crossed, I went into the Audyssey menu and was pleased to see the "Restore" option was enabled, so my calibration was still there. Phew. Hit the "Restore" button, restore seemed successful.... so I did a quick spot check on the levels / distances to verify that it was the calibration I had just completed yesterday. Hmmm, that's weird, the levels seemed way off.... so I went into the crossover menu to verify an inkling... and, lo and behold, the calibration that was "restored" was TWO calibrations ago! from a completely different set of speakers.

Since then I have recalibrated with my current speakers twice (a few months ago and then yesterday). So the power blip dropped me back not one, but two "layers" deep in the memory banks! Amazing considering there is no "stock" feature for storing multiple calibrations internally.

Users in the 4311 thread (and a couple in the 4520 thread) have reported this strange phenomenon of a power event magically restoring calibrations of days long past, but I haven't ever heard this reported with any other models. Now I have to figure out how to convince the wife to leave the house with the baby for 20+ minutes so I can recalibrate! eek.gif
post #2850 of 6910
sorry, but that's pretty funny how it can revert back so many calibrations - just thinking about how that would work based on the chip presumably storing calibration info in the same sectors blows my mind a bit. I'm sure you could give her a couple hundred bucks and ask her to pick up some things from Home Goods or TJ Maxx - that should buy you a bit more than 20 minutes wink.gif
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