or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 110

post #3271 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Here are two relevant video bench tests from receivers that have the exact same video chipset as the X4000:

Denon AVR-2313CI: http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-2313ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Marantz SR7008: http://www.soundandvision.com/content/marantz-sr7008-av-receiver-test-bench

In both cases the video bench test was essentially perfect, passing all tests for cadence recognition and resoluton/clipping, and in the Marantz review they specifcially note the scaling from 480i to 1080p is excellent. All of the same should be true for the X4000.

How do you know the Marantz 7008 has the same chip?
post #3272 of 6865
Thread Starter 
Because Marantz models are essentially reskinned Denon clones (all owned by D&M holdings), and all current D&M models with 4k scaling use the same Analog Devices video chipset.

The Denon 2313ci got essentially an identical score as the Marantz 7008, so it's not a real stretch to interpolate that the X4000 is going to be just as good.
post #3273 of 6865
Re-skinned Denon clones might be an over simplification. It's more economics of scale. They can buy chipsets cheaper in larger quantities. It's good business to just buy 1 chipset for all recievers and pre pros. It's cheaper and easier to implement.
post #3274 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

Re-skinned Denon clones might be an over simplification. It's more economics of scale. They can buy chipsets cheaper in larger quantities. It's good business to just buy 1 chipset for all recievers and pre pros. It's cheaper and easier to implement.

True dat +1
post #3275 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Because Marantz models are essentially reskinned Denon clones (all owned by D&M holdings), and all current D&M models with 4k scaling use the same Analog Devices video chipset.

The Denon 2313ci got essentially an identical score as the Marantz 7008, so it's not a real stretch to interpolate that the X4000 is going to be just as good.

Wouldnt the 4520ci be the reskinned 7008 since they are both the high end offerings? And I dont even know but does the 4520ci have the same video chipset as the X4000? Being made in Japan and all, I would assume it would be better? Or no?

Also, would the 7008 be a better value to buy instead of the 4520ci? I just checked out the product page and they seem very identical except for the marantz being less aggressive with its power output....and with the 7008 being cheaper
post #3276 of 6865
Owners of x4000, I needs advice or even confirmation if you could help me out. I've been using X4000 for bout 2 months now and just recently observed a very weird behavior on the sound output. I've been noticing inconsistent sound signature from my x4000 which I could not explain. At one time, it would sound very thin with overall volume higher while at other times, it would sound bassy and overall volume lowered. Today, as I was playing GTA V on my PS3 (incredible game by the way), it sounded thin again. I then realized I just plugged in HDMI output from my PC and thought if that could be the issue. And it is! As I unplugged the HDMI (PC), the sound changed to bassy on the fly. I am left confused. How could multiple HDMI plugged in caused difference to the sound?!
And I have checked every sound setting (Dyneq, vol, crossover, speaker size, sound field, etc) is similar between the HDMI ports.
Inputs are PCM from both PC & PS3 if that matters.
I further all below scenarios and narrowed down the issue to HDMI in 3 (Bluray) sounded different than other HDMI and will make other HDMIs sounded wrong when HDMI 3 (Bluray) is plugged in.
Does it sound like I have a defective Bluray HDMI port?

Scenario
PS3 HDMI in 4 (game) + PC HDMI in 3 Bluray = Thin sound & higher volume, doesn't sound right
PS3 HDMI in 4 (game) + PC HDMI unplugged = Bassy sound & lowered volume (~8db) which I believed is what it should sound like
PS3 HDMI in 3 (Bluray) + PC HDMI unplugged = Thin sound & higher volume, doesn't sound right
PS3 HDMI in 1 (CBL/SAT) + PC HDMI unplugged = Bassy sound & lowered volume (~8db) which I believed is what it should sound like
post #3277 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

Wouldnt the 4520ci be the reskinned 7008 since they are both the high end offerings? And I dont even know but does the 4520ci have the same video chipset as the X4000? Being made in Japan and all, I would assume it would be better? Or no?

Also, would the 7008 be a better value to buy instead of the 4520ci? I just checked out the product page and they seem very identical except for the marantz being less aggressive with its power output....and with the 7008 being cheaper

The Marantz 8801 is the current flagship model to Denon's flagship 4520CI, while the 7008 matches up to the X4000 all be it being a 9CH model (7008/X4000; 6008/X3000, 5008/X2000).
Edited by jdsmoothie - 11/4/13 at 3:29am
post #3278 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Because Marantz models are essentially reskinned Denon clones (all owned by D&M holdings), and all current D&M models with 4k scaling use the same Analog Devices video chipset.

The Denon 2313ci got essentially an identical score as the Marantz 7008, so it's not a real stretch to interpolate that the X4000 is going to be just as good.

Wouldnt the 4520ci be the reskinned 7008 since they are both the high end offerings? And I dont even know but does the 4520ci have the same video chipset as the X4000? Being made in Japan and all, I would assume it would be better? Or no?

Also, would the 7008 be a better value to buy instead of the 4520ci? I just checked out the product page and they seem very identical except for the marantz being less aggressive with its power output....and with the 7008 being cheaper

Equivalent Denon and Marantz receivers use the same digital boards but have significantly different analog circuit designs. They also have slightly different firmware and physical packaging. It is not at all obvious that they sound any different, although people like to claim that they do.

The 4520 came out in 2012 and is expected to be replaced in 2014. It's D&M's current top-of-the-line receiver with 11.2 active speaker channels. There is no equivalent Marantz receiver, although their AV8801 pre/pro has the same feature set.

The SR7008 came out in 2013 and is equivalent to the Denon X4000. It has some additional digital processing features when compared to the 4520 (most notably stereo PCM can be forwarded to Zone 2) but has only 9.2 active speaker channels. You have to choose which pair of surround speakers is off at a given time.

Any differences in power ratings are miniscule and irrelevant.
post #3279 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexth77 View Post

Owners of x4000, I needs advice or even confirmation if you could help me out. I've been using X4000 for bout 2 months now and just recently observed a very weird behavior on the sound output. I've been noticing inconsistent sound signature from my x4000 which I could not explain. At one time, it would sound very thin with overall volume higher while at other times, it would sound bassy and overall volume lowered. Today, as I was playing GTA V on my PS3 (incredible game by the way), it sounded thin again. I then realized I just plugged in HDMI output from my PC and thought if that could be the issue. And it is! As I unplugged the HDMI (PC), the sound changed to bassy on the fly. I am left confused. How could multiple HDMI plugged in caused difference to the sound?!
And I have checked every sound setting (Dyneq, vol, crossover, speaker size, sound field, etc) is similar between the HDMI ports.
Inputs are PCM from both PC & PS3 if that matters.
I further all below scenarios and narrowed down the issue to HDMI in 3 (Bluray) sounded different than other HDMI and will make other HDMIs sounded wrong when HDMI 3 (Bluray) is plugged in.
Does it sound like I have a defective Bluray HDMI port?

Scenario
PS3 HDMI in 4 (game) + PC HDMI in 3 Bluray = Thin sound & higher volume, doesn't sound right
PS3 HDMI in 4 (game) + PC HDMI unplugged = Bassy sound & lowered volume (~8db) which I believed is what it should sound like
PS3 HDMI in 3 (Bluray) + PC HDMI unplugged = Thin sound & higher volume, doesn't sound right
PS3 HDMI in 1 (CBL/SAT) + PC HDMI unplugged = Bassy sound & lowered volume (~8db) which I believed is what it should sound like

Not hearing this on my X4000. Try doing a soft reset (ie. unplug the unit for 10 minutes).
post #3280 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post


Equivalent Denon and Marantz receivers use the same digital boards but have significantly different analog circuit designs. They also have slightly different firmware and physical packaging. It is not at all obvious that they sound any different, although people like to claim that they do.

The 4520 came out in 2012 and is expected to be replaced in 2014. It's D&M's current top-of-the-line receiver with 11.2 active speaker channels. There is no equivalent Marantz receiver, although their AV8801 pre/pro has the same feature set.

The SR7008 came out in 2013 and is equivalent to the Denon X4000. It has some additional digital processing features when compared to the 4520 (most notably stereo PCM can be forwarded to Zone 2) but has only 9.2 active speaker channels. You have to choose which pair of surround speakers is off at a given time.

Any differences in power ratings are miniscule and irrelevant.

In addition, the Denon 4520 is made in Japan, while the Marantz SR7008 is made in China.

post #3281 of 6865
I wanted to get some feedback on my setup procedure. After the latest calibration pass my system is sounding a little bright to my tastes. This last time I was being very meticulous with the mic positions and height. I went through and marked the positions ahead of time, measured the mic height, and checked the level. The result is my speakers have the desired "headphone" effect but the sound is bright.

On a previous pass I had forgotten to reset the speaker level and after calibration the results had uneven volume balance. I reset the levels to default and re-ran the calibration again and the volume was back to normal. I read that the calibration resets everything but since it didn't in the case I wonder if there was something that could account for the perceived treble boost I'm experiencing.

I noticed with the X4000 there are two ways to invoke the Audyssey calibration process. One is through the Setup Wizard and the other through the speaker menu. The Wizard prompts for the number of listening positions while the other just does the calibration. Is there any reason to access the Audyssey calibration using one method over the other?
Edited by resqguy - 11/2/13 at 9:41am
post #3282 of 6865
I don't think there's any difference in how you start the auto setup and would be really disappointed if there was. I have run Audyssey many times now and while you can read up on how to do it here's what I do. I use a cheap camera tripod. I eyeball the height to approximately ear level and make sure it is above the back of the couch. The first position is the one that really matters so get that where you want it. Then just follow the standard placements for the other positions. I don't measure anything and the times I have been unhappy with the results I think it was because of outside noise or some other weirdness. If it doesn't sound right just try running it again and make sure to use all 8 positions. On the X4000 it is way faster even now doing 9.2 than the 3808 was doing 7.1 so it's no big deal to redo.
post #3283 of 6865
Does anybody have a recommendation for an AM/FM antenna? The one that came with my X2000 has great FM reception, but we also listen to a lot of AM stations and, from what I've read, the stock antennas with most receivers are no good. I've also tried to look at some amplified indoor antennas in stores and online, but can't find one with a good review. Thanks in advance.
post #3284 of 6865
Thread Starter 
Have you tried accessing these local AM stations as internet radio feeds? That would be a reliable and stable way without adding more equipment. There is usually a section for local stations when you access the jnternet radio on your receiver.
post #3285 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

I don't think there's any difference in how you start the auto setup and would be really disappointed if there was. I have run Audyssey many times now and while you can read up on how to do it here's what I do. I use a cheap camera tripod. I eyeball the height to approximately ear level and make sure it is above the back of the couch. The first position is the one that really matters so get that where you want it. Then just follow the standard placements for the other positions. I don't measure anything and the times I have been unhappy with the results I think it was because of outside noise or some other weirdness. If it doesn't sound right just try running it again and make sure to use all 8 positions. On the X4000 it is way faster even now doing 9.2 than the 3808 was doing 7.1 so it's no big deal to redo.

The X4000 actually has (2) microprocessors which help speed up the process. smile.gif
post #3286 of 6865
I think it was reported in the Audyssey thread that if you start Audyssey using the setup wizard the X4000 will only do up to 6 positions, as compared to up to 8 if you start it "manually". I don't know, never used the wizard. But it's recommended to do as many positions as the system allows.

Don't have an X2000, but I am generally not in favor of amplified antennas, not cheap ones anyway. They amplify the noise too, so you're not ahead. There are some very good loop antennas that will greatly out-perform the stock one, but they take a bit of space. But be wary: your tuner may be crap. The one in the 3808 was the worst I've ever encountered, at any price. That's not an exaggeration by me, a $10 pocket radio out-performs it, and sounds far better through a 2" speaker than that one did. The one in the X4000 is much better. Actually, I think the 3808's tuner module was poorly positioned, not necessarily poor in design; it is very susceptible to (internal) electrical noise as are all AM tuners. I'm just saying these things before you go hog-wild with spending on antennas because it might not make any diff. Agree that if you can, maybe try internet radio. For AM stations it's typically around 32kbps, rarely up to 64kbps, so it still won't sound wonderful but as batpig said it's stable and not susceptible to atmospheric conditions and local noise (in your house).
post #3287 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Have you tried accessing these local AM stations as internet radio feeds? That would be a reliable and stable way without adding more equipment. There is usually a section for local stations when you access the jnternet radio on your receiver.

Yes, I forgot to mention. I did try the Denon internet radio, as well as Tunein Radio app on my tv, but not all of our stations are available from those sources.

Thanks, cfraser and BP for the advice
post #3288 of 6865
Internet radio on my x4000 sounds pretty terrible.
post #3289 of 6865
I have the Denon AVR-X2000 with a Samsung PN64F8500 TV and the Sony BDP-S5100 bluray player. I am trying to use the HDMI-CEC to automate things. With all the equipment turned off, if I pop a disc into the Sony, the Samsung will auto power-on but not the Denon. With everything off, if I press the Denon' s "Bluray" QuickSelect, the Denon turns-on but not the Samsung. The first example proves that HDMI-CEC can trigger the Samsung to turn-on but the Denon doesn't seem to do this when you use the QuickSelects?

What experience have other people had? Should my TV be activated by the Denon QuickSelect?

P.S. In this current arrangement, I have to manually turn-on the TV after everything else is on and then the Denon auto-switched to "TV Audio" mode, just compounding the problem.

P.P.S. I have not installed the latest Denon firmware so it is possible this has all been fixed?
post #3290 of 6865
As you're finding out HMDI control often cause many more problems than it's worth. If you have a very basic setup, it might work, but usually not. I turn off all HDMI control settings in all of my gear, and I use a Harmony 650 remote to control everything with the push of a single button. I recommend that you do the same.
post #3291 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

As you're finding out HMDI control often cause many more problems than it's worth. If you have a very basic setup, it might work, but usually not. I turn off all HDMI control settings in all of my gear, and I use a Harmony 650 remote to control everything with the push of a single button. I recommend that you do the same.

Agreed
post #3292 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

I think it was reported in the Audyssey thread that if you start Audyssey using the setup wizard the X4000 will only do up to 6 positions, as compared to up to 8 if you start it "manually".

This is true for the XX13 models, although not the case for the E/X models.
post #3293 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Finally! Thanks JChin! I have asked this about four times over the past couple of weeks with no replies.
That's weird. Do both volume controls rise together?

Sorry for delay respond, had to find time when everyone is out of the house biggrin.gif.

I believe its the iTune app that limit the volume up to -6. As iTune via airplay using the phone volume control it can only go up to -6 but can further go up to reference using Denon or Harmony remote. But Internet Radio and HD Radio I can go up to reference using the phone volume control.
post #3294 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Internet radio on my x4000 sounds pretty terrible.

Hmm, sound good to me at reference biggrin.gif
post #3295 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Internet radio on my x4000 sounds pretty terrible.

Must be different ears as sounds just as good as Pandora on mine and Pandora sounds pretty good. smile.gif

Also another plug for listening to Pandora on the AVR is that you don't have to put up with the constant "commercials" and "Are you still listening" as is the case when listening via a laptop. smile.gif
Edited by jdsmoothie - 11/3/13 at 1:37am
post #3296 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsalsero View Post

I have the Denon AVR-X2000 with a Samsung PN64F8500 TV and the Sony BDP-S5100 bluray player. I am trying to use the HDMI-CEC to automate things. With all the equipment turned off, if I pop a disc into the Sony, the Samsung will auto power-on but not the Denon. With everything off, if I press the Denon' s "Bluray" QuickSelect, the Denon turns-on but not the Samsung. The first example proves that HDMI-CEC can trigger the Samsung to turn-on but the Denon doesn't seem to do this when you use the QuickSelects?

What experience have other people had? Should my TV be activated by the Denon QuickSelect?

P.S. In this current arrangement, I have to manually turn-on the TV after everything else is on and then the Denon auto-switched to "TV Audio" mode, just compounding the problem.

P.P.S. I have not installed the latest Denon firmware so it is possible this has all been fixed?

As noted in your Owner's manual, HDMI Control is only referenced as turning the unit OFF, rather than turning it back on again. A Harmony (or other universal) remote is the best solution here.
post #3297 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwaybl View Post

1. Nope. Optical OUT is no longer supported.
2. Not using the Video Select feature no. The Video Select feature on past year's models would only work with "analog" video sources, while it now although working with HDMI video sources, only works with the USB/Tuner/Network audio. You can however, connect the cable box HDMI directly to the TV (recommended anyway to avoid HDMI handshake issues possible from firmware updates to the cable boxWv7Zu) and then use any audio source connected to the AVR and for the xBox, you can assign it and the audio to the same source name and change the INPUT MODE to "Digital".
Disappointing they no longer support optical out. Also disappointing there's no way to output video from one HDMI source while simultaneously outputting audio from a digital input. Connecting HDMI directly from my cable box or xbox to my display isn't that easy considering my front projector is on the other side of the room. Double whammy. Seems as technology advances it's often harder to make things do what you want them to.
Edited by televisiontv - 11/2/13 at 7:34pm
post #3298 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Sorry for delay respond, had to find time when everyone is out of the house biggrin.gif.

I believe its the iTune app that limit the volume up to -6. As iTune via airplay using the phone volume control it can only go up to -6 but can further go up to reference using Denon or Harmony remote. But Internet Radio and HD Radio I can go up to reference using the phone volume control.

I agree it's the apple volume that's the limiter. At apple max, if I then try and turn the vol up on the denon with either the denon remote or my harmony, it goes to -5.5 for half a second then goes back to -6 and will do this every time I press the vol up button.
There's no vol restriction if I stream through the airport express, however. Hence my recent overheating protection mode when I took it to +2 wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hmm, sound good to me at reference biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Must be different ears as sounds just as good as Pandora on mine and Pandora sounds pretty good. smile.gif

Sorry, didn't mean to include pandora, it sounds great. Just with you could thumbs up/down without going into another menu. I was referring to the thousands of radio stations. Tried a few after I first set it up and it sounded like it was playing in a tin can. Kinda like Sirius in my wife's car, but worse. Not really worried about it. I'm stuck with radio only in my car so I get my fill.
post #3299 of 6865
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As noted in your Owner's manual, HDMI Control is only referenced as turning the unit OFF, rather than turning it back on again.
Actually, if I turn on the TV first, it wakes-up the Denon. So HDMI-CEC is not simply used for power-off. Instead I really think it's working inconsistently.

I have a Logitech Harmony and my whole point for HDMI-CEC is to eliminate IR codes. I hate having to hold the remote at the TV etc while 3+ series of codes are broadcast. The Denon 'QuickSelect' already shortened the series by avoiding the Denon power-on command.
post #3300 of 6865
Hello,
a question for the X4000 owners: Can the x4000 downmix a dts-hd / trueHD audio signal for an individual hdmi-out to stereo or ac-3?

Background: I want to connect a tv and a projector to the receiver. When using the projector, the hd audio signals from a bd-player should be decoded by the receiver and sent to the 5.1 loudspeakers.
However, when watching over tv I want to use its internal loudspeakers, but the tv can not decode the new hd-audio signals, so the receiver needs to downmix the hd audio to stereo or AC-3 before sending the signal to the tv.

As a source, I would like to buy a Denon DBT 3313, which apparently does not support different audio signals for its two HDMI-out ports.

best regards
mariachi76
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ