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The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 183

post #5461 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Once you run Audyssey and store the settings, you can go into the speaker configuration and switch all speakers to small with a x-over of either 80hz all around, or 60hz for your L/R and 80hz for the rest.

Is there any different for 80 or 60hz in front? Ok let me try it tomorrow, thanks.
post #5462 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post

Is there any different for 80 or 60hz in front? Ok let me try it tomorrow, thanks.

Yes, there is 20hz difference.wink.gif 80hz is the 'standard go to' and a safe choice for all of your speakers, while 60hz will send a little less bass from the L/R speaker to the subwoofer, and send a little more to the L/R speakers. Some like 60hz better for tower speakers, while other prefer 80hz. Try both with material (movie/music) that you are familiar with and chose which one sounds best to you. If you can't hear a difference (which is likely) then 80hz is probably the best setting.
post #5463 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post

Hello I do have X4000 and Klipsch speakers RF-82II, RC-62II and S-2( will add RS-52II soon) and just want set up speakers to small or large and how abour crossover?

I have the same fronts and center. Small and 80hz xover.
post #5464 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post

Hello I do have X4000 and Klipsch speakers RF-82II, RC-62II and S-2( will add RS-52II soon) and just want set up speakers to small or large and how abour crossover?

What SW(s) do you have?

What size is your room?

There is a Klipsch & Audyssey Thread over in Audio Theory if you want to join us.
Edited by SanchoPanza - 2/10/14 at 5:16am
post #5465 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


Yup. smile.gif

 

Finally got a response from Denon.  I figured it would be best to hear it straight.  Peace of mind for me.  You guys were on point...as usual.  Here is Denon's reply:

 

 

Response Via Email (RN Maint) 02/10/2014 09:04 AM
Hi Robert,

Even though you purchased an open box item, you still have your full 2 year warranty.

Thank You,

D&M Service and Support
post #5466 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by BombaytheGreat View Post

Finally got a response from Denon.  I figured it would be best to hear it straight.  Peace of mind for me.  You guys were on point...as usual.  Here is Denon's reply:


Response Via Email (RN Maint) 02/10/2014 09:04 AM
Hi Robert,


Even though you purchased an open box item, you still have your full 2 year warranty.


Thank You,


D&M Service and Support


Only thing Id like to add here, is even if you purchase an Amazon warehouse deal that is basically an open box or damaged box, D&M only recognizes 1 year on those.
post #5467 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

What SW(s) do you have?

What size is your room?

There is a Klipsch & Audyssey Thread over in Audio Theory if you want to join us.

SW is klipsch 12 sub and room size is 16x16, thanks and let me chech other Thread
post #5468 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I have the same fronts and center. Small and 80hz xover.

Thanks I know I checked your new huge subs. So can I run Audysey and then change size speaker and crossover or first change it and then run it?
post #5469 of 6974
Thread Starter 
As D Bone already explained, you run Audyssey first and THEN change bass management. Auto setup ignores all settings and resets them as per the measurements, so you need to manually tweak afterwards.

This is all well covered in the Audyssey FAQ, here is a link to the crossovers section: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-51779/51750#user_C
post #5470 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post

Thanks I know I checked your new huge subs. So can I run Audysey and then change size speaker and crossover or first change it and then run it?

Run it then change it.
post #5471 of 6974
I did a reset and reload of my X4000 settings. The AVR kept displaying LOADING for about 35 minutes so I finally just shut it off. When I turned it back on the settings were restored.

My advice if yo are having a hard time saving settings keep trying slight variations (different browsers etc) and checking them with a hex viewer like JDsmothie recommends.
post #5472 of 6974

Hello Everybody, I just got the Denon E400 and had a few questions. I ran the audyssey configuration and I have to put the volume up on the receiver really high like to like 60 to get decent volume. Is that normal? The speaker selection is on individual and the front speaker is 110Hz, center is 120Hz and surround is 200Hz. Is that the problem?...should i change the frequency to 60 or 80 and the volume will be better? Thanks for your help...I'm a newbie at setting all this up. If its any help I have these speakers and sub....http://www.bostonacoustics.com/CA/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatId=HomeAudio(BostonAcoustics_CA)&SubCatId=HomeTheaterSpeakers(BostonAcoustics_CA)&Pid=SoundWareSHomeTheater(BostonAcoustics)

post #5473 of 6974
ottawahockey98.

Most people do listen to movies with the volume control knob set to about 60, or perhaps a little higher. When listening to CDs, many people listen at a setting about 10 lower.

Modern receivers use logarithmic volume controls measured in dB. They're not at all like the old-style linear volume controls. Also, after you've run the Audyssey calibration, the volume control settings tell the receiver what fraction of movie reference sound level you want. The setting has no relationship whatsoever to the fraction of the receiver's power needed to produce that sound level.

When using the "absolute" volume scale, a setting of 80 tells the receiver to produce movie reference sound levels -- the sound level you are supposed to hear when sitting in a calibrated commercial movie theater. For most people that's much too loud when listened to at home. A setting of 60 tells the receiver to produce a sound level 20 dB below that. Many people like to change the volume readout to "relative". When that's done, 0 is reference, and many people listen to movies at levels between -20 and -15 and to CDs at levels between -30 and -25.

Edited to add: for more details, see the first page of this thread at
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq#user_B4 (Master Volume Adjustment)
Edited by Selden Ball - 2/10/14 at 12:58pm
post #5474 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

ottawahockey98.

Most people do listen to movies with the volume control knob set to about 60, or perhaps a little higher. When listening to CDs, many people listen at a setting about 10 lower.

Modern receivers use logarithmic volume controls measured in dB. They're not at all like the old-style linear volume controls. Also, after you've run the Audyssey calibration, the volume control settings tell the receiver what fraction of movie reference sound level you want. The setting has no relationship whatsoever to the fraction of the receiver's power needed to produce that sound level.

When using the "absolute" volume scale, a setting of 80 tells the receiver to produce movie reference sound levels -- the sound level you are supposed to hear when sitting in a calibrated commercial movie theater. For most people that's much too loud when listened to at home. A setting of 60 tells the receiver to produce a sound level 20 dB below that. Many people like to change the volume readout to "relative". When that's done, 0 is reference, and many people listen to movies at levels between -20 and -15 and to CDs at levels between -30 and -25.

Edited to add: for more details, see the first page of this thread at
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq#user_B4 (Master Volume Adjustment)

Thanks Selden Ball. In terms of the crossover frequency, should I set it to all at 80hz or leave it at  front speaker 110Hz, center 120Hz and surround 200Hz

post #5475 of 6974
Thread Starter 
Those Boston Acoustic speakers are TINY. They are little cubes with 3.5" woofers. Do NOT lower the crossovers to 80Hz, that would be a disaster. If you look at the data sheet for your speakers the manufacturer specifies them as only going down to 132Hz. Lowering the xover to 80Hz would open up a giant hole in the frequency response and potentially expose your speakers to damage by trying to reproduce bass they weren't designed to output. The sub is spec'd up to 135Hz or so and the system is designed to have the sub handle those bass frequencies.

The differing crossover has to do with the fact that the speakers are in different physical positions, and the room itself impacts the bass response. Frankly, I would probably set all the crossovers to 150Hz and call it a day.

The 200Hz crossover is because there is a jump from 150Hz to 200Hz in the settings, so it is likely that the speakers are measuring just above 150Hz and thus the processor jumps to the next available settings. So you probably wouldn't open up a huge hole by setting it to 150hz.
post #5476 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Those Boston Acoustic speakers are TINY. They are little cubes with 3.5" woofers. Do NOT lower the crossovers to 80Hz, that would be a disaster. If you look at the data sheet for your speakers the manufacturer specifies them as only going down to 132Hz. Lowering the xover to 80Hz would open up a giant hole in the frequency response and potentially expose your speakers to damage by trying to reproduce bass they weren't designed to output. The sub is spec'd up to 135Hz or so and the system is designed to have the sub handle those bass frequencies.

The differing crossover has to do with the fact that the speakers are in different physical positions, and the room itself impacts the bass response. Frankly, I would probably set all the crossovers to 150Hz and call it a day.

The 200Hz crossover is because there is a jump from 150Hz to 200Hz in the settings, so it is likely that the speakers are measuring just above 150Hz and thus the processor jumps to the next available settings. So you probably wouldn't open up a huge hole by setting it to 150hz.

 

OK thanks for the info. Last question, If I leave the front to 110 Hz and the centre at 120Hz, will I damage the speakers or should I set it to 150Hz just to be safe. 

post #5477 of 6974
Question smile.gif

Onkyo TX-NR626 or Denon X1000

I can get an open box Denon for $249 or I can get a refurbished Onkyo for $279. I think the Onkyo is the better deal but wanted to get some folks thoughts on the comparison.

I worry a little about Onkyo build quality as I've heard they are not as reliable recently, this receiver would come with a 1 year warranty. The Denon has a 3 year warranty which is nice.

The Onkyo does have some nice advantages though.

Wifi enabled
Bluetooth enabled
7.2 support
Dual HDMI out
Phono support (nice!) smile.gif

I guess outside of reliability and warranty the only other concern would be sound quality?

Am I making a bad choice?
post #5478 of 6974
Thread Starter 
Do you care more about features or sound quality? The X1000 has MultEQ XT vs. the rudimentary 2EQ in the Onkyo, which doesn't even EQ the sub. If you just want more features, go with the Onk. If you want superior sound quality and don't need to go beyond 5 channels, then get the X1000.
post #5479 of 6974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawahockey98 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Those Boston Acoustic speakers are TINY. They are little cubes with 3.5" woofers. Do NOT lower the crossovers to 80Hz, that would be a disaster. If you look at the data sheet for your speakers the manufacturer specifies them as only going down to 132Hz. Lowering the xover to 80Hz would open up a giant hole in the frequency response and potentially expose your speakers to damage by trying to reproduce bass they weren't designed to output. The sub is spec'd up to 135Hz or so and the system is designed to have the sub handle those bass frequencies.


The differing crossover has to do with the fact that the speakers are in different physical positions, and the room itself impacts the bass response. Frankly, I would probably set all the crossovers to 150Hz and call it a day.


The 200Hz crossover is because there is a jump from 150Hz to 200Hz in the settings, so it is likely that the speakers are measuring just above 150Hz and thus the processor jumps to the next available settings. So you probably wouldn't open up a huge hole by setting it to 150hz.

OK thanks for the info. Last question, If I leave the front to 110 Hz and the centre at 120Hz, will I damage the speakers or should I set it to 150Hz just to be safe. 

I doubt you would damage the speakers. Try listening both ways.
post #5480 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post

Hi Randy Ta, try holding the Movie button down to see a list of surround options.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have tried that and it offers options that will drive all the speakers but they run very soft. No option for Dolby, which used to run the speakers with a lot of volume. Might try playing a Standard DVD with the player connected to the DVD input port instead of the Blue Ray port on the AVR and see if it makes any difference.
post #5481 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottawahockey98 View Post

Thanks Selden Ball. In terms of the crossover frequency, should I set it to all at 80hz or leave it at  front speaker 110Hz, center 120Hz and surround 200Hz

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


The differing crossover has to do with the fact that the speakers are in different physical positions, and the room itself impacts the bass response. Frankly, I would probably set all the crossovers to 150Hz and call it a day.

The 200Hz crossover is because there is a jump from 150Hz to 200Hz in the settings, so it is likely that the speakers are measuring just above 150Hz and thus the processor jumps to the next available settings. So you probably wouldn't open up a huge hole by setting it to 150hz.

It is never advisable to set different crossover frequencies for various speakers. See this article for a detailed technical explanation of why this causes inaccurate sound reproduction. [Edit: Link corrected. Thanks to jdsmoothie for pointing out the error.]

Choose the crossover frequency of the least bass-capable speaker in your set up and use it to set the crossover for all the speakers in your set up. The only exception I would make is to set a higher crossover for your surrounds, with a lower (identical) crossover for the L-C-R speakers. Due to distinctly different placement of the surrounds and the LCRs, and the huge difference in the signals they receive, any phase and coherence issues would be minimized in a real-world setting.
Edited by Spock1234 - 2/10/14 at 7:10pm
post #5482 of 6974
I dont agree with that. Their article seems to be biased to system with only a global crossover, and if that was the case, sure.

If your center is good to 100 hz, and you towers are good for 80 hz, set them as such if the AVR has the ability.

Ive personally set fronts and center's from another brand per the manufacturer recommendation (they were different), and it sounded great. The less you send to your sub above 80hz from the other channels the better.
post #5483 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock1234 View Post


It is never advisable to set different crossover frequencies for various speakers. See this article for a detailed technical explanation of why this causes inaccurate sound reproduction. Choose the crossover frequency of the least bass-capable speaker in your set up and use it to set the crossover for all the speakers in your set up.

The only exception I would make is to set a higher crossover for your surrounds, with a lower (identical) crossover for the L-C-R speakers. Due to distinctly different placement of the surrounds and the LCRs, and the huge difference in the signals they receive, any phase and coherence issues would be minimized in a real-world setting.

Detailed technical? Huh? There's one line that basically says you should do it with no real reason to justify that setting. I'd go with what the AVR recommends with the guidance to raise any <80Hz up to 80Hz and leave the others as is.
post #5484 of 6974
I agree, unless you have smaller fronts and a center, then simply email the manufacturer and ask. I did that with Def Tech, because their ranges for the smaller speakers were "generous". They told me the proper settings for the fronts and center, and they were a little higher than 80hz, and different from one another.
post #5485 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Do you care more about features or sound quality? The X1000 has MultEQ XT vs. the rudimentary 2EQ in the Onkyo, which doesn't even EQ the sub. If you just want more features, go with the Onk. If you want superior sound quality and don't need to go beyond 5 channels, then get the X1000.

Onkyo stepped up their game last year and now use MultEQ as the lowest version which is also on the 626. Point still taken though that the 626 has a lower version of Audyssey compared to the X1000.
post #5486 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Detailed technical? Huh? There's one line that basically says you should do it with no real reason to justify that setting. I'd go with what the AVR recommends with the guidance to raise any <80Hz up to 80Hz and leave the others as is.

Wrong link - Here is the article I was thinking of. Search for "Mixing high and low frequency crossovers in a multi-channel set up" about half-way down the page.
Edited by Spock1234 - 2/10/14 at 6:59pm
post #5487 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I agree, unless you have smaller fronts and a center, then simply email the manufacturer and ask. I did that with Def Tech, because their ranges for the smaller speakers were "generous". They told me the proper settings for the fronts and center, and they were a little higher than 80hz, and different from one another.

No one can fault you for doing what DefTech suggested, but you may want to read this article and make up your own mind.
post #5488 of 6974
Hey guys I'm still learning and playing with my X4000. So without external amp I'm able to run up to 7.1 or 7.2? And if I would like to do 9.2? What to add please detail specific what kind of power amp to and for witch speakers? Thanks
post #5489 of 6974
^^
Correct. The X4000 can power up to 7CH and if you add an external 2CH amp you can connect up to 9 speakers in the main zone. As noted in the image below, you have the option of powering 1 of 4 different sets of speakers.



If powering the Front (FL/FR) speakers you'll likely want a 200W+ amp, while if powering any of the remaining sets of speakers a 50W amp like the one below should be plenty. Connect the amp to the speaker pre-outs for the set you select and run Audyssey again to EQ the new speakers.

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AMP-100-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/dp/B00026BQJ6
post #5490 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Ta View Post

Just upgraded from a 3808 to an x-4000. I use a PS3 to watch both Blue Ray & Standard DVD and the PS3 is set to send PCM data. Using a Blue Ray the AVR works fine and shows multi-channel in the AVR window regardless of audio format. When I play a Standard DVD that is Dolby, it shows Stereo in the AVR window and really is Stereo. Not sure what gives. Used to work fine on my 3808. Thanks.
To get the Dolby and DTS Neo for the DVD you are playing, you don't need to set PS3 to PCM, rather set it to Bitstream. Now when you play a DVD or any other source that doesn't have multi-channel audio, if you hold 'Movie' 'Music' or 'Game' for few seconds you'll see the other options like DTS Neo, Dolby PL II etc.
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