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The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 191

post #5701 of 6883
One thing I may add to the IR issue...

I find that if I point my Harmony directly at the screen, I can hit everything in the room with the reflection including the Lutron dimmer with it. This did NOT work with the X3000, but does with the x4000. YMMV.
post #5702 of 6883
Post #6 has been updated with the latest firmware changelog for the X3000 and X4000. Please review the entire post for troubleshooting tips. Also if you are having problems with the update, wait a few days and try again as the servers can become inundated with too much traffic. I got no indication of an update on my X4000, but when I selected to Check for Update, it showed up as a 53 minute update, taking about 3 minutes to download and about 50 minutes to be installed. The front panel actually froze for a few minutes and then went into Standby and started the update. If it gets stuck, try pressing the POWER button to force the unit into Standby.
post #5703 of 6883
^^ Thanks JD. Half of the update lists I do not understand. No mention of GUI or volume control change as Happy Tom had noticed.
post #5704 of 6883
Very odd behavior with an X4000: if my wife is looking at her photos on her Samsung Galaxy S4 phone while the X4000 is playing, the Denon switches inputs and starts to display the photos on the tv. The phone is "pushing" the photos to the tv over our home network.
post #5705 of 6883
I currently have been using my X-4000 with GoldenEar Triton 3 speakers. I have been using both the Airplay on the receiver along with an Apple TV both with a wired connections to listen to music. My music is ALAC lossless stored on a windows PC using iTunes. I feel the music sounds better on the Airplay than that the Apple TV and neither sound as good as a CD on a Samsung BluRay player. To improve my sound quality, I am thinking of getting a Mac Mini and connecting it directly to the receiver through a HDMI port. Does the forum think that:

1) This will lead to a significant sound improvement.
2) That I should use a Toslink cable for the audio
3) That I should also consider an external DAC
4) Consider an upgraded player such as the Pure Music plug in
5) Or am I just wasting money
post #5706 of 6883
Just picked up a X4000 after my Onkyo 818 stopped working.

I am using this with a Emotiva XPA-5. One thing I noticed is the 12 volt trigger on the receiver, will it work with the Emotiva or is it for other zones?

Thanks
post #5707 of 6883
I'm using an X4000 with an Emotiva XPA-5. The 12v trigger turns the XPA-5 on and off, just as it is supposed to. I believe that you can customize the way that the 12v trigger works, somewhere in the menu, but I didn't have to mess with it at all, as the default settings had it working just the way I wanted.
post #5708 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Husker View Post

3) That I should also consider an external DAC

I've thought about trying an external DAC, but the same thing always deters me from doing so. With an external DAC, the output to the Denon will be analog, as the conversion has already taken place. This means that Audyssey cannot be used for that input, since Audyssey operates in the digital domain, before the digital-to-analog conversion takes place in the Denon's internal DAC.

Are there better DACs out there, than those in the Denon? Probably (I'm certainly no expert, but it seems a safe assumption).

Is the benefit of a better DAC so great that it is worth foregoing the benefits of Audyssey? I don't know, but Audyssey XT32 is the main reason I bought the X4000, so I'm not going to turn around and bypass it with an external DAC.

Just my $0.02.
post #5709 of 6883
Is the benefit of a better DAC so great that it is worth foregoing the benefits of Audyssey? I don't know, but Audyssey XT32 is the main reason I bought the X4000, so I'm not going to turn around and bypass it with an external DAC.

I didn't even think of that aspect. Because I feel my music sound much better using Audyssey Flat than either the standard Audyssey XT32 or the direct mode.
post #5710 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

I'm using an X4000 with an Emotiva XPA-5. The 12v trigger turns the XPA-5 on and off, just as it is supposed to. I believe that you can customize the way that the 12v trigger works, somewhere in the menu, but I didn't have to mess with it at all, as the default settings had it working just the way I wanted.

Thanks, stupid question, what kind of wire are you supposed to use?

I assume something like this http://www.amazon.com/3-5mm-Mono-Male-Cable-Plated/dp/B004HZR2OG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392871550&sr=8-1&keywords=3.5mm+cable+mono
post #5711 of 6883
Yes, that's the right one. My XPA-5 came with one.
post #5712 of 6883
Should I be concerned that the Audyssey calibration is setting my speaker levels to be fairly low? I have an X2000 and I've ran the setup twice with similar results. I have the mic on a tripod and the room is quiet during calibration as well.

Front L: -11.0 dB
Center: -7.5 dB
Front R: -10.0 dB
Surround R: -9.0 dB
Surr. Back R: -8.5 dB
Surr Back L: -9.0 dB
Surround L: -8.0 dB
Subwoofer: - 9.0 dB

I've included a few pictures of the room if that helps.

http://i.minus.com/iIBw5JgR8Yquc.jpg
http://i.minus.com/ibcAm8tEauC2Uh.jpg
http://i.minus.com/ibkcpljGQ5cluB.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iLzs1LqUDh10A.jpg
post #5713 of 6883
^^^ what speakers?
post #5714 of 6883
I'm betting they're horn loaded Klipsch. What do I win?
post #5715 of 6883
Free listen to my La Scalas, next time you're in Mississippi;

they are set @ -12.0dB
post #5716 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post

^^ Thanks JD. Half of the update lists I do not understand. No mention of GUI or volume control change as Happy Tom had noticed.


Mine also said "GUI updating" Hmmmmm?
post #5717 of 6883
^^ so is mine with BIG icons in the menu.
post #5718 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Husker View Post

Is the benefit of a better DAC so great that it is worth foregoing the benefits of Audyssey? I don't know, but Audyssey XT32 is the main reason I bought the X4000, so I'm not going to turn around and bypass it with an external DAC.

I didn't even think of that aspect. Because I feel my music sound much better using Audyssey Flat than either the standard Audyssey XT32 or the direct mode.

Only multichannel analog inputs are not digitized. Stereo analog inputs are digitized by the receiver, so Audyssey works quite well on them.

On the other hand, you're passing the digital audio signal through a DAC and then an ADC, so potentially degrading the results slightly.

On the third hand wink.gif modern DACs and ADCs are good enough that the degradation is going to be inaudible.
post #5719 of 6883
Im trying to upgrade my speakers on my porch. I have an X4000 and am looking at these two speakers:

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-NS-AW350-Indoor-Outdoor-Speakers/dp/B0001VHARO/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_1

and

http://www.kicker.com/kb6000


The yamahas are 6ohm speakers and the kicker are 8ohm. Does it matter which I get in regards to damaging my AVR? Anyone have a preference of these two speakers?
post #5720 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

Just picked up a X4000 after my Onkyo 818 stopped working.

I am using this with a Emotiva XPA-5. One thing I noticed is the 12 volt trigger on the receiver, will it work with the Emotiva or is it for other zones?

Thanks

The triggers are easy to setup and I think the default is ON when anything else is ON. If you are using different zones in the house you can set trigger 1 to only power on your XPA-5 when using zone 1.
post #5721 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Displaced Husker View Post

I currently have been using my X-4000 with GoldenEar Triton 3 speakers. I have been using both the Airplay on the receiver along with an Apple TV both with a wired connections to listen to music. My music is ALAC lossless stored on a windows PC using iTunes. I feel the music sounds better on the Airplay than that the Apple TV and neither sound as good as a CD on a Samsung BluRay player. To improve my sound quality, I am thinking of getting a Mac Mini and connecting it directly to the receiver through a HDMI port. Does the forum think that:

1) This will lead to a significant sound improvement.
2) That I should use a Toslink cable for the audio
3) That I should also consider an external DAC
4) Consider an upgraded player such as the Pure Music plug in
5) Or am I just wasting money

I would have somebody else switch inputs while you're blindfolded to see if you really can hear a difference. Keep in mind that very small increases in volume are sometimes perceived as sounding better.
post #5722 of 6883
Thread Starter 
Good point. And it is also difficult to make sure all settings are equalized -- in addition to variables on the receiver (audyssey eq, dynamic eq, tone controls, restorer mode, etc.) the source itself could have some settings that could impact the sound output.
post #5723 of 6883
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazosdog02 View Post

Im trying to upgrade my speakers on my porch. I have an X4000 and am looking at these two speakers:

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-NS-AW350-Indoor-Outdoor-Speakers/dp/B0001VHARO/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_1

and

http://www.kicker.com/kb6000


The yamahas are 6ohm speakers and the kicker are 8ohm. Does it matter which I get in regards to damaging my AVR? Anyone have a preference of these two speakers?

Neither speaker will risk damage to the AVR, which is rated to drive speakers of 6ohms - 16ohms. Based on the raw specs, the Kickers are easier to drive (not only 8ohms but also 90dB sensitivity vs. 87dB on the Yammys) so if you intend to crank them up fairly loud, I'd go with those. If you are just going to be playing moderate volume background music, then it won't matter as you will be using so little power the differences will be negligible.
post #5724 of 6883
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidsword95 View Post

Should I be concerned that the Audyssey calibration is setting my speaker levels to be fairly low? I have an X2000 and I've ran the setup twice with similar results. I have the mic on a tripod and the room is quiet during calibration as well.

Front L: -11.0 dB
Center: -7.5 dB
Front R: -10.0 dB
Surround R: -9.0 dB
Surr. Back R: -8.5 dB
Surr Back L: -9.0 dB
Surround L: -8.0 dB
Subwoofer: - 9.0 dB

I've included a few pictures of the room if that helps.

http://i.minus.com/iIBw5JgR8Yquc.jpg
http://i.minus.com/ibcAm8tEauC2Uh.jpg
http://i.minus.com/ibkcpljGQ5cluB.jpg
http://i.minus.com/iLzs1LqUDh10A.jpg

As the replies above imply, this result is not abnormal if you have very sensitive speakers and/or a small room. The key thing to understand is that the calibration isn't just balancing your speakers relatively, it is setting them all to a specific absolute volume level such that the test tones produce 75dB at the first measurement position. What these results mean is that your speakers require very little power to achieve the needed volume levels (again due to combination of their inherent sensitivity specs and distance to the listening position).

Unsolicited advice, but eyeballing your otherwise very snappy looking room, but it appears you could really do with SOME softening of the space acoustically. Your walls are completely bare and you have hardwood floors with no covering. Plus leather couches. You don't have to go full blown acoustic treatments, but a nice rug under the ottoman and a few things hanging on the walls could improve the acoustics quite a bit. If you don't have any art preferences, companies like ATS Acoustics produce good looking and inexpensive absorption wall panels: http://www.atsacoustics.com/panels
post #5725 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Neither speaker will risk damage to the AVR, which is rated to drive speakers of 6ohms - 16ohms. Based on the raw specs, the Kickers are easier to drive (not only 8ohms but also 90dB sensitivity vs. 87dB on the Yammys) so if you intend to crank them up fairly loud, I'd go with those. If you are just going to be playing moderate volume background music, then it won't matter as you will be using so little power the differences will be negligible.

Do you think the Kicker Speakers are 'good'? Will they be an improvement over an AudioSource LS300?
post #5726 of 6883
Thread Starter 
I have no idea honestly. Speaker preference is very subjective. And I've never heard either one.
post #5727 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

As the replies above imply, this result is not abnormal if you have very sensitive speakers and/or a small room. The key thing to understand is that the calibration isn't just balancing your speakers relatively, it is setting them all to a specific absolute volume level such that the test tones produce 75dB at the first measurement position. What these results mean is that your speakers require very little power to achieve the needed volume levels (again due to combination of their inherent sensitivity specs and distance to the listening position).

Unsolicited advice, but eyeballing your otherwise very snappy looking room, but it appears you could really do with SOME softening of the space acoustically. Your walls are completely bare and you have hardwood floors with no covering. Plus leather couches. You don't have to go full blown acoustic treatments, but a nice rug under the ottoman and a few things hanging on the walls could improve the acoustics quite a bit. If you don't have any art preferences, companies like ATS Acoustics produce good looking and inexpensive absorption wall panels: http://www.atsacoustics.com/panels
First thing I thought of when seeing those pictures as well, lots of hard surfaces for the audio to bounce around in, if it were my room I would definitely soften it up as well.
post #5728 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I have no idea honestly. Speaker preference is very subjective. And I've never heard either one.

In my price range, they will probably be 'about the same'. LOL.
post #5729 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazosdog02 View Post

Im trying to upgrade my speakers on my porch. I have an X4000 and am looking at these two speakers:

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-NS-AW350-Indoor-Outdoor-Speakers/dp/B0001VHARO/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_1

and

http://www.kicker.com/kb6000


The yamahas are 6ohm speakers and the kicker are 8ohm. Does it matter which I get in regards to damaging my AVR? Anyone have a preference of these two speakers?

Haven't heard either of those, but I use Polk atrium sat30s and a sub10 on my deck (zone 2). They wire up as just 2ch. Wanted good bass out there without having to have monster speakers. Found the pkg a few yrs ago at Fry's for $400, they sound great.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00279TWYM/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

Mine


post #5730 of 6883
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

As the replies above imply, this result is not abnormal if you have very sensitive speakers and/or a small room. The key thing to understand is that the calibration isn't just balancing your speakers relatively, it is setting them all to a specific absolute volume level such that the test tones produce 75dB at the first measurement position. What these results mean is that your speakers require very little power to achieve the needed volume levels (again due to combination of their inherent sensitivity specs and distance to the listening position).

Unsolicited advice, but eyeballing your otherwise very snappy looking room, but it appears you could really do with SOME softening of the space acoustically. Your walls are completely bare and you have hardwood floors with no covering. Plus leather couches. You don't have to go full blown acoustic treatments, but a nice rug under the ottoman and a few things hanging on the walls could improve the acoustics quite a bit. If you don't have any art preferences, companies like ATS Acoustics produce good looking and inexpensive absorption wall panels: http://www.atsacoustics.com/panels

Thanks Batpig, I'm going to look into getting a couple wall panels. BTW your guides were a life saver when I bought my first Denon receiver (789).
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