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The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 27

post #781 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpostvt View Post

I just purchased an X-3000 for fathers day for my husband and thought I read pretty thoroughly here (and elsewhere) and thought I picked the right receiver. But now I'm not sure. I set it up yesterday and ran into a few things.

Here is what I want to do -- seems fairly simple.

2 Inputs (TIVO, Apple TV) plus use airplay, internet radio, xm radio etc (network sources)

TV/speakers in family TV room (only 2 speakers right now but want to be able to upgrade this to a 5.1 system at some point soon)

Assign 2 amps to Zone 2 for OUTSIDE speakers

Run second HDMI output to Kitchen TV.

Kitchen/Family room are connected so no need to play different sources of video here (I'd like the option, I've had the option in my matrix switch setup and never use it so not necessary).

Definitely want the HDMI sources outside without running optical cables (a feature of the X3000 I love). Using iPhone App right now to control my music outside and loving it.

Here is my issue -- I thought I'd be able to have the outside speakers not be the same as the Zone 2 audio. My husband might be in the yard with music and I might be in the kitchen making lunch and I want TV there while he has music outside. I know there both labeled Zone 2... so maybe I am wrong and need the X4000. But somehow I thought I read I could do this...

Since I don't really need separate video for those two TVs is there a setting that lets me make that Zone 2 HDMI mirror Main Zone and use the Zone 2 controls for outside?

I previously had a matrix switch (used to split the TIVO and Apple TV to three different rooms) -- I put the matrix back in to split the TIVO to the kitchen but for ease of use would love it if everything can run through one box.

I guess another option is to split the HDMI out to feed the two TVs. Does that work if one is using the receiver for the audio and on the other I'll use the TV for the audio?

Also, when I did have the kitchen TV plugged into the Zone 2 HDMI I was surprised that I couldn't get any of the networked sources to play -- it seemed to only do the HDMI sources. I was thinking for a party I might want the same music on all from airplay or xm radio etc (but I can use the apple TV instead if I put that back through my matrix switch). Let me know if I'm wrong about this or can that HDMI out only do HDMI sources.

Can the X3000 feed the two TVs (same source) and separate audio to my Zone 2 speakers?

Would the X4000 let me do this without adding an AMP?

Perfect wife right there? I'm impressed.
post #782 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by shidfar1 View Post

So I think my respect for the company itself.plays into my decision especially being manufactured in the USA

The Motions are designed in the US and built in China.
post #783 of 6871
Quote:

Looks like you're right. The promotional videos I saw were before they sent it over then. They must have been fairly old. Well, there goes the buy local argument. Man that really bothers me, i understand if you are making millions of something a day and they are $0.10 parts so saving $0.02 males a big difference. But the already have huge profit margins on $1k+ items and barely any overhead since the actual governing company is so small. No matter how pure an idea is, if there is a way to make a significant profit from it then that way will be exploited

I am still a bit weary.about buying anything on the internet that I have not auditioned. Am I understanding the term Internet Direct correctly? As in those brands do not sell to brick and mortar store fronts? Also, I think i would not categorize myself as a purest. I recognize that what sounds great to me might be.mediocre to someone else. I will.definitely.check to see if I can find somewhere to audition those brands you.mentioned.
post #784 of 6871
so has anybody tried to us the SiriusXM app on the X4000? I was able to get Spotify working, but when I try to log into the SiriusXM app, i get "bad user name or password".
I tried both on-screen and web browser.

I know it is a vaiid user name and password because It works on the iPhone and XM website.

Just wondering if this is a issue or not. didnt see anything at the beginning of this post about it.

Also, more of a curiosity, but does anyone know at what bit-rate the Spotify app is using? There is no setting I can find on the receiver to set it (like the iPhone app or the Spotify app)
From the sound of it, it does not appear to be "extreme" but perhaps high (Spotify verbiage, not mine)

Thanks
Ron
post #785 of 6871
Quote:
so has anybody tried to us the SiriusXM app on the X4000?

I got my XM working on my X3000. The password is case sensitive -- perhaps you are missing a capital? I put mine in without it first...
Quote:
Perfect wife right there? I'm impressed.

Thanks! Although he laughed that I was giving him a gift for ME. I'm the techie but he likes his music. But I need to make things as easy as possible so I don't get called to fix it!

Still looking for insight into my 2 TVs and outside speaker setup.
post #786 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

Perfect wife right there? I'm impressed.

Definitely. The research alone had to take quite a bit of time. And setting it all up ...wow! I was excited when my wife came with me to audition...once.
post #787 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpostvt View Post

I got my XM working on my X3000. The password is case sensitive -- perhaps you are missing a capital? I put mine in without it first...
Thanks! Although he laughed that I was giving him a gift for ME. I'm the techie but he likes his music. But I need to make things as easy as possible so I don't get called to fix it!

Still looking for insight into my 2 TVs and outside speaker setup.

You're outside speakers are the Zone 2 audio. Let someone else correct me if I am wrong. But since you Dont needs different signals for the 2 interior TVs then you can just use a splitter ( sounds like you already have one). Then both TVs would be Zone 1 and would.leave the Zone 2 audio to go outside. Somebody else needs to answer whether you can get the HDMI sources on the zone 2, i fear you may not be able to but dont go returning anything becasue of that part.
.im just not sure.
On the Xodels would she always be limited to those same sources or will only work with All Zone stereo or what? That part I am not sure about.

If you does want the.ability to have a different output to the 2 TVs and the patio speakers then you would need the x4000. But if that is not important to you then I say stuck with the x3000
Edited by shidfar1 - 6/17/13 at 5:29pm
post #788 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpostvt View Post

I got my XM working on my X3000. The password is case sensitive -- perhaps you are missing a capital? I put mine in without it first...

Good suggestion but its all lower case....its seems to only be an issue on the receiver. The app and the web work fine, so narrowing it down, its appears to be an issue with the reciever.

I wonder if its cause I have a "-" in my email address...again, no issues on the iPhone, iPad, or PC (web)
Ron
post #789 of 6871
so i went ahead and bought the x4000 today. Is there any obvious signs on the box that will tell me if its the EU or NA version? I ask since I'm buying it on ebay and can easily return if unopened.

Thanks,
post #790 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by shidfar1 View Post

You're outside speakers are the Zone 2 audio. Let someone else correct me if I am wrong. But since you Dont needs different signals for the 2 interior TVs then you can just use a splitter ( sounds like you already have one). Then both TVs would be Zone 1 and would.leave the Zone 2 audio to go outside. Somebody else needs to answer whether you can get the HDMI sources on the zone 2, i fear you may not be able to but dont go returning anything becasue of that part.
.im just not sure.
On the Xodels would she always be limited to those same sources or will only work with All Zone stereo or what? That part I am not sure about.

If you does want the.ability to have a different output to the 2 TVs and the patio speakers then you would need the x4000. But if that is not important to you then I say stuck with the x3000


on the first page of this thread batpig say to the differences between the ax series and the 2013 models. One of the difference is that you can now send digital sources to zone 2 BUT it has to send the signal simultaneuously to all zones, its called all zone stereo. So as long as you can control the volume of wach seperately (a quick chwck on your pjone app will tell you that) then you could turn zone 1 down really.low and play tjough the outsoor.speakersand zone 2 sounds like there is no way around this even with the x4000. Basically it would let you have a seperatw source foe the secondtTV in addition to the patio speakers where with the 3000 you have to choose between the same signal for the TV's and when you use the patio speakers for digital inputs All Some stereo needs to be engaged. Can anybody answer quickly as to whether she can control volume independently while I'm all zone stere
Edited by shidfar1 - 6/18/13 at 11:49am
post #791 of 6871
I have the X3000 hooked up now -- using the matrix switch for the kitchen TV (only thing is that switch really confuses people so I'd love to eliminate it which I think the 4000 would let me do) -- but on the sources I can do my HDMI sources to my Zone 2 speakers outside (TIVO and Apple TV both tested) including having the TIVO inside and APPLE TV outside! That part is very cool -- using the app to select and control the volume outside.

The piece of the audio that surprised me was when I had the kitchen TV hooked up to the ZONE 2 HDMI I couldn't get the internet radio and network stuff to work -- just the TIVO and Apple TV. IF those would work I"d be more inclined to upgrade to the 4000 -- as the TV would be part of a whole area audio for those sources. From the manual it sounds like this should work -- maybe I'll move that back to Zone 2 HDMI and try some more.

Right now I split my TIVO signal with my matrix switch and put the Apple TV straight into the X3000. Mostly because I think for my husband pushing the Media Player button to get to the Apple TV will be easier than getting the little matrix remote.... (we have a Harmony too but I cannot get him to use it!!). But this setup doesn't give me the Apple TV in the Kitchen. I'm thinking of splitting (with a passive splitter instead of matrix) the HDMI OUT of the receiver instead. OR X4000 -- but I don't need the power that has only for the third zone. AND I am not sure if do Zone 2 to the kitchen can Zone 3 power outside without an AMP? I think I remember that only Zone 2 can do different output on the HDMI so if I wanted different sources on the two TVs then I'd need to use Zone 2 for that which pushes outside to Zone 3 which I think might need an AMP.
post #792 of 6871
^^
The X4000 is the only 3 zone model in the "X" series. With it you could use the 2nd HDMI Out to the Kitchen TV (and still have the Zone2 HDMI Out available to a 3rd TV elsewhere if desired) as well as use the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts for the patio speakers as either Zone 2 or Zone 3.
post #793 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpostvt View Post

I have the X3000 hooked up now -- using the matrix switch for the kitchen TV (only thing is that switch really confuses people so I'd love to eliminate it which I think the 4000 would let me do) -- but on the sources I can do my HDMI sources to my Zone 2 speakers outside (TIVO and Apple TV both tested) including having the TIVO inside and APPLE TV outside! That part is very cool -- using the app to select and control the volume outside.

The piece of the audio that surprised me was when I had the kitchen TV hooked up to the ZONE 2 HDMI I couldn't get the internet radio and network stuff to work -- just the TIVO and Apple TV. IF those would work I"d be more inclined to upgrade to the 4000 -- as the TV would be part of a whole area audio for those sources. From the manual it sounds like this should work -- maybe I'll move that back to Zone 2 HDMI and try some more.

Right now I split my TIVO signal with my matrix switch and put the Apple TV straight into the X3000. Mostly because I think for my husband pushing the Media Player button to get to the Apple TV will be easier than getting the little matrix remote.... (we have a Harmony too but I cannot get him to use it!!). But this setup doesn't give me the Apple TV in the Kitchen. I'm thinking of splitting (with a passive splitter instead of matrix) the HDMI OUT of the receiver instead. OR X4000 -- but I don't need the power that has only for the third zone. AND I am not sure if do Zone 2 to the kitchen can Zone 3 power outside without an AMP? I think I remember that only Zone 2 can do different output on the HDMI so if I wanted different sources on the two TVs then I'd need to use Zone 2 for that which pushes outside to Zone 3 which I think might need an AMP.

It sounds like you got it. The 4000 has basically the same output capabikity as the 3000 plus an extra analog ahdio only zone 3. Although, I Dont think the x4000 would allow you to do anything in zone 2 HDMI that the 3000 won't let you do with.zone 2 via HDMI. Please let the lady know if I am wrong here...can you send digital to zone 2 on the x4000 without usong All Zone Stereo?

what you do get is: elimination of your HDMI switch and a more advanced room correction, eq and sub eq for whoch until this year was limited to tge $2500 flagship. I dont.know howuch room corrextion does with stereo ( i always run multi channel because my speakers are nothing special) but when you get your 5.1 setp it will be the difference beyween great and fantastic so its all about how serious you are about getting rid of the switch and if you considet yourself very picky when it comes to sound quality the living room

I will give you auch more complete answer in a bit. I know you did your research already but you should go back and reread the first page of this post as well as the specific sections for the x3000 and x4000. It answers your questions.probably better than I can
Edited by shidfar1 - 6/17/13 at 6:39pm
post #794 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

so i went ahead and bought the x4000 today. Is there any obvious signs on the box that will tell me if its the EU or NA version? I ask since I'm buying it on ebay and can easily return if unopened.

Thanks,

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_F5
post #795 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpostvt View Post

I have the X3000 hooked up now -- using the matrix switch for the kitchen TV (only thing is that switch really confuses people so I'd love to eliminate it which I think the 4000 would let me do) -- but on the sources I can do my HDMI sources to my Zone 2 speakers outside (TIVO and Apple TV both tested) including having the TIVO inside and APPLE TV outside! That part is very cool -- using the app to select and control the volume outside.

The piece of the audio that surprised me was when I had the kitchen TV hooked up to the ZONE 2 HDMI I couldn't get the internet radio and network stuff to work -- just the TIVO and Apple TV. IF those would work I"d be more inclined to upgrade to the 4000 -- as the TV would be part of a whole area audio for those sources. From the manual it sounds like this should work -- maybe I'll move that back to Zone 2 HDMI and try some more.

Right now I split my TIVO signal with my matrix switch and put the Apple TV straight into the X3000. Mostly because I think for my husband pushing the Media Player button to get to the Apple TV will be easier than getting the little matrix remote.... (we have a Harmony too but I cannot get him to use it!!). But this setup doesn't give me the Apple TV in the Kitchen. I'm thinking of splitting (with a passive splitter instead of matrix) the HDMI OUT of the receiver instead. OR X4000 -- but I don't need the power that has only for the third zone. AND I am not sure if do Zone 2 to the kitchen can Zone 3 power outside without an AMP? I think I remember that only Zone 2 can do different output on the HDMI so if I wanted different sources on the two TVs then I'd need to use Zone 2 for that which pushes outside to Zone 3 which I think might need an AMP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shidfar1 View Post

It sounds like you got it. The 4000 has basically the same output capabikity as the 3000 plus an extra analog ahdio only zone 3. Although, I Dont think the x4000 would allow you to do anything in zone 2 HDMI that the 3000 won't let you do. Please let the lady know if I am wrong here...what you do get is: elimination of your HDMI switch and a more advanced room correction, eq and sub eq for when you get your 5.1 setp so I guess it depends on how serious you are about getting rid of the switch and then if you will actually buy more speakers to fill IP the living room

If you were to go with the x4000 and your second zone was HDMI to the kitchen TV with only the TV speakers then you would not need an amp for the 2 channel speakers on the patio (zone 3) The only caveat to that is when. And for the 3000 you Dont need the amp If you use the passice splitter, sorry I thought I must not have been clear when I said splitter instead of switch.
I am pretty sure you would only need an amp if you wanted a full 7.1 or bi-amped 5.1 in the mani room then you wouls run analog stereo xable feom the x3000 zone 2 pre-out and connext that to the amp dor your outdoor speakers
post #796 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

so i went ahead and bought the x4000 today. Is there any obvious signs on the box that will tell me if its the EU or NA version? I ask since I'm buying it on ebay and can easily return if unopened.

Thanks,

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_F5

Thank you!
post #797 of 6871
I wanted to share my experience with the X3000 on a couple of issues.

Even if Zone 2 is powered off, the HDMI matrix switch will handshake at the lowest common denominator of digital audio support between the 2 hdmi output devices. So even with my TV off and Z2 powered off, the receiver will handshake my input devices down to stereo. I went through all the settings and several microprocessor resets before I realized what was going on. Kind of annoying but it is easy enough to switch Z2 to another input so that I get Dolby Digital back.

I was kind of irritated by the slowly responding UI, but it's just the Harmony 850. Using the Denon remote, it's very responsive. I should try to learn the signals for the arrow keys to override what's in the Harmony database, but I use the UI so seldom that it's easier to just use the real remote.
post #798 of 6871
Thread Starter 
What do you have the Zone 2 HDMI Audio Setting on? Through or PCM?
post #799 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpostvt View Post

I

Right now I split my TIVO signal with my matrix switch and put the Apple TV straight into the X3000. Mostly because I think for my husband pushing the Media Player button to get to the Apple TV will be easier than getting the little matrix remote.... (we have a Harmony too but I cannot get him to use it!!). But this setup doesn't give me the Apple TV in the Kitchen. I'm thinking of splitting (with a passive splitter instead of matrix) the HDMI OUT of the receiver instead. OR X4000 -- but I don't need the power that has only for the third zone. AND I am not sure if do Zone 2 to the kitchen can Zone 3 power outside without an AMP? I think I remember that only Zone 2 can do different output on the HDMI so if I wanted different sources on the two TVs then I'd need to use Zone 2 for that which pushes outside to Zone 3 which I think might need an AMP.

here is an excerpt from FAQ. He describes it better than I could. 2012 models refer to calander year 2012, i.e. xx13. Not sure why we don't just follow the way auto manufactures, Denon, and apparently the whole financial world does it (fiscal years), but hey as long as we are clear whatever. To me I consider the X series the 2014 model but I spent a lot of time in automotive engineering so a 2014 model coming out in 2013 seems "right" to me. I know that was long winded but it confused me at first especially because the model numbers end in 13, but ok enough whining.

b. Source Limitations: 2012 Models: No 2012 model can pass HDMI audio to Zone 2 (except 3313CI using the Zone 2 HDMI Out). The 2012 networking models will only pass Airplay, internet radio and external “analog only” sources to Zone 2, but cannot pass HDMI or other “external” digital audio sources connected to the AVR to Zone 2. This limitation is common to the vast majority (98%) of all AVRs on the market today. It applies whether you're using the powered Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts or the Zone 2 preout jacks to an external amp. So for example, if you want to connect an Apple TV, in addition to the HDMI cable you would also have to connect an optical cable to pass audio to Zone 2 using an optical --> analog converter. 2013 Models: The new 2013 "X" models feature two ways to get HDMI audio to Zone 2. The E400 and all "X" models feature an "All Zone Stereo" feature (formerly only on the 4520CI) that can pass the same HDMI audio playing in the main zone to the Zone 2 speaker posts or pre-outs while downmmixing the audio to stereo in the main zone as well. Additionally the X3000/X4000 models are able to pass an independent HDMI audio source to the Zone 2 HDMI Out as well as passing an independent HDMI, optical, or coax digital PCM 2.0 signal to the Zone 2 speaker posts or pre-outs.

A work around if you want to pass ANY source (HDMI, digital, analog) to another room using a 7.1 2012 model is to use the "Amp Assign - Front B" setting with the understanding that the Front B speakers can only play the same source as is playing on the Front A speakers and the volume of the Front B speakers will be controlled by the volume of the Front A speakers. The 2012 "CI" models have separate 2CH STEREO settings, so if you prefer not to use the STEREO mode in the main zone, you can setup a "custom" STEREO setting using the Front B speakers only (ie. Front B speakers set to LARGE and no subwoofer playing) to get audio only in the room with the Front B speakers whenever you use the remote to change to STEREO mode. If you want an independent source and volume control for Zone 2 (other than Airplay - see Networking - Airplay), you will have to use the "Amp Assign - Zone 2" setting.

c. Whole House Audio: If you have a 7.1 Zone 2 model (1913 or higher/X2000 or higher) and want to send the "same" audio to more than just one zone/room, you can connect a multi zone impedance matching speaker selector (eg. 4 zone speaker selector) to the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts. If adding more than 2 additional rooms; however, you will want to consider an AVR model that has Zone 2 pre-outs so that a separate 2CH amp can run the whole house speakers. You would then connect the speaker selector between the speakers and the external amp. For more information on whole house audio setups, review this website.
post #800 of 6871
b. 3313CI/X4000 extra speaker posts: Although the 3313CI and X4000 both feature 11 sets of speaker posts, they can only provide 7 (3313CI) and 9 (X4000) channels of audio at a time ... the extra speaker posts are merely provided for convenience so as not to have to rewire for other configurations. The newer X4000 also has 11.2 pre-outs with the capability to expand from 7CH to 9CH audio using an external amp. If you want to run more than 9 speakers in the main zone, you will need to upgrade to the 4520CI which is a 9.2 AVR (capable of up to 11.2 w/external 2 CH amp).

Would the exception the the X4000 being limited to 9 in the main zone be A/B setup? I just want to make sure that is possible. It is one of the reasone I am trading up to the 4000 is so I can hook up a 7.2 setup and 2.2 setup in the main room and switch between at my convenience.
post #801 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What do you have the Zone 2 HDMI Audio Setting on? Through or PCM?[/quote

Zone 2 HDMI audio is Through. What would changing that do?


I did end up deciding to upgrade to the X4000. I can get this to do what I want with a splitter but I'd love to not and I don't buy a receiver often (expect to have it for 10 years) so the extra zone adds some future flexibility too. I do have HDMI and audi cables running from the receiver location to a basement workout room should I decide to add that to the loop...
post #802 of 6871
Quote:
Originally Posted by shidfar1 View Post

Would the exception the the X4000 being limited to 9 in the main zone be A/B setup? I just want to make sure that is possible. It is one of the reasone I am trading up to the 4000 is so I can hook up a 7.2 setup and 2.2 setup in the main room and switch between at my convenience.

Nope, although note that 7.2 + 2.2 only equals 9.2 which is still possible.
post #803 of 6871
In the crutchfield details it calls the option i am referring to 7.1+2.1 front
Edited by shidfar1 - 6/18/13 at 5:49pm
post #804 of 6871
You're right. 5.1 would be the max for the A/B setup. But what I would actually do is what you said, run a 7.1 for movies/games and have it switch to 2.2 for stereo playback. As you said this works because 9 speakers will be connected all the time but only 7 max will be powered at the same time. I think I am going to go for the x4000. I am I'm the same boat as the awesome wife, I need at least 5-7 years out of this thing so its worth the $400 overy 2313. Now I just need to sell my 2313. I should have researched the new models more but I did a ton on the xx13 models and the 3313 really didn't offer me anything great other than the pre-outs which I would not use for some time. I had no idea the leaps that were coming with the x4000.and I was stuck on saving $300 by getting the previous years model
post #805 of 6871
So I just added a sub today to my x1000, before i just had a FL/FR/C and added a sub today.

Everytime I rerun audyssey now it keeps defaulting to saying Surrounds are on even though I do not have any. I select "No" when option comes for Surrounds, but everytime audyssey keeps looking for them.

I have to do a Microchip reset and reboot my whole system to get it to work properly.

So my question is, why does it do this?

And is it bad to reset my reciever in this manner?

Edit: Also while watching some prime time "Americas got talent" In between acts or at random times the sound goes quite and there is an audible difference, reciever stays on and does not show anything changing, is this the network itself?
Edited by SLIDEx - 6/18/13 at 8:12pm
post #806 of 6871
^^
If you are selecting None for the SL/SR speakers prior to beginning the Audyssey process, yet it still looks for the SL/SR speakers, then it sounds like your unit is defective. frown.gif
post #807 of 6871
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure that is actually a defect. I think Audyssey will always check for the "core" 5 speakers channels when it runs, at least on the first measurement point. After that it should list "none" for them and stop checking for measurements #2-8.

The only way to tell the receiver you don't have surrounds is via the Manual Setup section of the Speakers menu, and Audyssey ignores everything there when you run it. Part of that first measurement is detecting what speakers are connected. So in other words this sounds like normal operation.
post #808 of 6871
I am thinking of getting E400 or wait for X2000 price to drop. I can get E400 for $299 (or Yamaha RX-V675) . Thinking of getting E400 with MultiEQ functionality which is much appreciated in these forums. I can use E400 for 7.1 media room / 5.1 living room + 2 extra speakers in dining/patio.

Looks like MultiEQ vs MultiEQ XT is the only difference between these units for me. Does MultiEQ XT make any difference over MultiEQ for some one who is new to HT system.
post #809 of 6871
Budget is always going to be a primary consideration. You're much better served picking up the E400 deal and putting the savings into better quality speakers. smile.gif
post #810 of 6871
Thread Starter 
Normally the X2000 is a no brainer over the E400 but the $299 sale price (Fry's I'm assuming?) is a game changer.
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