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The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 28

post #811 of 6940
Hi jdsmoothie and batpig,
Thanks for the information. Will I be able to connect E400 to 7.1 system and extra Sterio system. Does it come with 2 extra channels like Yamaha RX-V675 for zone 2.
X2000 might not be available for ~$350 near future. E400 looks like my best to start with and plan for extra receiver later for living room system.
post #812 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Normally the X2000 is a no brainer over the E400 but the $299 sale price (Fry's I'm assuming?) is a game changer.
Unless you like to use banana jacks, instead of those easy connect terminals.



I think Fry's is trying to sell out of these e400's, because they are getting the x series now.
post #813 of 6940
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritholtz View Post

Hi jdsmoothie and batpig,
Thanks for the information. Will I be able to connect E400 to 7.1 system and extra Sterio system. Does it come with 2 extra channels like Yamaha RX-V675 for zone 2.
X2000 might not be available for ~$350 near future. E400 looks like my best to start with and plan for extra receiver later for living room system.

No, that's one advantage of the X2000 -- because it has Zone 2 pre-outs, it can run a full 7ch system in main zone with a separate 2ch setup in Zone 2. The E400 doesn't have zone 2 pre-outs so 7 speakers max... that means if you run Zone 2 then you have a max of 5.1 channels in main zone.
post #814 of 6940
John, those ez connect terminals, am I right in thinking they are the same as normal tower terminals except with the holes oriented top and bottom?
post #815 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

No, that's one advantage of the X2000 -- because it has Zone 2 pre-outs, it can run a full 7ch system in main zone with a separate 2ch setup in Zone 2. The E400 doesn't have zone 2 pre-outs so 7 speakers max... that means if you run Zone 2 then you have a max of 5.1 channels in main zone.
I need to invest on separate receiver to power zone 2. Is it possible to connect all 7 channels, zone 2 channels and switch between 5.1, zone 2 or 7.1 with options using X2000/E400?
post #816 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

John, those ez connect terminals, am I right in thinking they are the same as normal tower terminals except with the holes oriented top and bottom?
Yes holes oriented that way, push-type speaker terminals.

post #817 of 6940
Ok, thanks. Sounds like tuesday delivery will be a breeze for install too smile.gif
post #818 of 6940
I have posted several times in the AVR-xx12 thread as I had an AVR-2312 for the last year+. I bought it as a refurb and it's currently at Panurgy in NJ for the second time in 90 days. I don't really fault Denon here as I just think I got a bad apple refurb unit. Anyway, I love the receiver, but don't trust it anymore without a warranty so I'm going to sell it when it comes back from NJ. In researching its replacement, I was disappointed with things in the xx13 lineup like no AM radio, etc. Additionally, Crutchfield has incorrect info on their site and says that the X2000 is multieq only (not XT) so I had eliminated that as an option and ordered a Pioneer SC-1222 from Newegg. It came today, but I've been reading this thread and realized that Crutchfield's site is wrong (Don't ask why I didn't check Denon's site..). In any case, the X2000 appears to do everything I need/want. Some of the trickle down features over the last couple years to the 21xx series (now the X2000) are cool. I called Craig at AV Science today and he gave me a very favorable quote. Anyway, I only paid $1.98 shipping on the SC-1222 and Newegg will RMA it if it's unopened with a prepaid shipping label. So now I have my dilemma. Keep the SC-1222 and lose Audyssey (in favor of MCACC) and the Denon OSD (volume display, info button, etc) but gain input flexibility and preouts, and arguably gain amp power, lowering power consumption and heat (class D amps are supposedly more efficient).

I really wish I could open the 1222 and listen to it, but then there is a 15% restocking fee.... Decisions. I know this is a Denon thread, but your thoughts are welcome. X2000 or SC-1222?
post #819 of 6940
Why is it not possible to control the zone 2 volume from the Denon receiver? The remote must be used. It would be helpful when you select a source to then be able to raise and lower the volume. Or push a button to toggle between main and zone 2 for the volume knob.
post #820 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by larkowski1 View Post

I have posted several times in the AVR-xx12 thread as I had an AVR-2312 for the last year+. I bought it as a refurb and it's currently at Panurgy in NJ for the second time in 90 days. I don't really fault Denon here as I just think I got a bad apple refurb unit. Anyway, I love the receiver, but don't trust it anymore without a warranty so I'm going to sell it when it comes back from NJ. In researching its replacement, I was disappointed with things in the xx13 lineup like no AM radio, etc. Additionally, Crutchfield has incorrect info on their site and says that the X2000 is multieq only (not XT) so I had eliminated that as an option and ordered a Pioneer SC-1222 from Newegg. It came today, but I've been reading this thread and realized that Crutchfield's site is wrong (Don't ask why I didn't check Denon's site..). In any case, the X2000 appears to do everything I need/want. Some of the trickle down features over the last couple years to the 21xx series (now the X2000) are cool. I called Craig at AV Science today and he gave me a very favorable quote. Anyway, I only paid $1.98 shipping on the SC-1222 and Newegg will RMA it if it's unopened with a prepaid shipping label. So now I have my dilemma. Keep the SC-1222 and lose Audyssey (in favor of MCACC) and the Denon OSD (volume display, info button, etc) but gain input flexibility and preouts, and arguably gain amp power, lowering power consumption and heat (class D amps are supposedly more efficient).

I really wish I could open the 1222 and listen to it, but then there is a 15% restocking fee.... Decisions. I know this is a Denon thread, but your thoughts are welcome. X2000 or SC-1222?


I bought a Pioneer VSX-1021 back in 2011 for my office, I didn't care for the sound on the 1021, as I have always liked the Denon sound, I have a Denon AVR-989 in my home theater. (looking to replace the 989 with an X-4000)
I sold the Pioneer, and replaced it with a Denon AVR-2113, MUCH better sound in my opinion. I am running 7.1 on that system, Audyssey MultEQ-XT did a much nicer job on my sound than MCACC did.

Now the Pioneer SC-1222 is a step up from the 1021, and is probably closer to a Denon AVR-X3000 than a x-2000. I don't know if the class-D amps will sound better or not, my bets are on Denon sounding better.

Also, the X-3000 is the replacement for the 23xx series.

Hope that helps,
Ed
post #821 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk68 View Post

I bought a Pioneer VSX-1021 back in 2011 for my office, I didn't care for the sound on the 1021, as I have always liked the Denon sound, I have a Denon AVR-989 in my home theater. (looking to replace the 989 with an X-4000)
I sold the Pioneer, and replaced it with a Denon AVR-2113, MUCH better sound in my opinion. I am running 7.1 on that system, Audyssey MultEQ-XT did a much nicer job on my sound than MCACC did.

Now the Pioneer SC-1222 is a step up from the 1021, and is probably closer to a Denon AVR-X3000 than a x-2000. I don't know if the class-D amps will sound better or not, my bets are on Denon sounding better.

Also, the X-3000 is the replacement for the 23xx series.

Hope that helps,
Ed

I realize the X3000 is the replacement, but that's why I bought a refurb in the first place, because I couldn't really justify the price of the 2312 and still really can't go for the X3000, but with the trickle down in the last couple years, coupled with the good quote from AV Science, the X2000 is now good for me (also I've dumped some older gear in the last year so 1 component in is now adequate, whereas a year ago, I needed 2, etc). I think I'll go ahead with the X2000. Thanks for the input. I do like the way Audyssey XT does sound in my room.
post #822 of 6940
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

John, those ez connect terminals, am I right in thinking they are the same as normal tower terminals except with the holes oriented top and bottom?
Yes holes oriented that way, push-type speaker terminals.

Careful, just tomb clear, they are not totally the same as normal terminals because they accept bare wire ONLY.
post #823 of 6940
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by larkowski1 View Post

Additionally, Crutchfield has incorrect info on their site and says that the X2000 is multieq only (not XT) so I had eliminated that as an option and ordered a Pioneer SC-1222 from Newegg. It came today, but I've been reading this thread and realized that Crutchfield's site is wrong (Don't ask why I didn't check Denon's site..).

Forget about checking Denon's site, the question is why you didn't check HERE wink.gif
post #824 of 6940
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritholtz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

No, that's one advantage of the X2000 -- because it has Zone 2 pre-outs, it can run a full 7ch system in main zone with a separate 2ch setup in Zone 2. The E400 doesn't have zone 2 pre-outs so 7 speakers max... that means if you run Zone 2 then you have a max of 5.1 channels in main zone.
I need to invest on separate receiver to power zone 2. Is it possible to connect all 7 channels, zone 2 channels and switch between 5.1, zone 2 or 7.1 with options using X2000/E400?

No, I meant what I said. No switching, if you run Zone 2 with internal amps you are limited to 5.1 in main zone.

You don't need a whole separate receiver, just a basic 2ch amp. The Audiosource AMP-100 is cheap (100 bucks) and will work perfectly, even has an auto on feature.
post #825 of 6940
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by braves1fan77 View Post

Why is it not possible to control the zone 2 volume from the Denon receiver? The remote must be used. It would be helpful when you select a source to then be able to raise and lower the volume. Or push a button to toggle between main and zone 2 for the volume knob.

I think you're wrong. I can definitely control Zone 2/3 source AND volume from the unit on my X4000. What model do you have? I just push the Zone 2/3 Source button and then the volume control controls the respective zone.
post #826 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

No, I meant what I said. No switching, if you run Zone 2 with internal amps you are limited to 5.1 in main zone.

You don't need a whole separate receiver, just a basic 2ch amp. The Audiosource AMP-100 is cheap (100 bucks) and will work perfectly, even has an auto on feature.
Switching between 7.1 to 5.1 with zone 2 is fine with my setup. I need to physically switch the connections unlike Yamaha RX-V675. Yamaha has specific zone 2
channels and system switches to 7.1 to 5.1. Not sure if I am missing something. I checked it out in the store. Denon comes with MultiEQ which seems to be most important
feature based on the feedback here.
post #827 of 6940
Thread Starter 
You aren't missing anything. The E400 (or any other Denon really) does not have the ability to switch that way. Yamaha and I think Onkyo provide this but Denons don't.

Just look at the back -- there are only 7 pairs of speaker terminals. Period.
post #828 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by braves1fan77 View Post

Why is it not possible to control the zone 2 volume from the Denon receiver? The remote must be used. It would be helpful when you select a source to then be able to raise and lower the volume. Or push a button to toggle between main and zone 2 for the volume knob.

If you are referring to the 2313CI, first note you are posting in the Denon AVR-E/X models thread vice the Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread. Secondly, if you refer to p. 96 in your Owner's manual, you'll note that you can turn Zone 2 ON as well as adjust the Zone 2 volume using the "Zone 2 ON/OFF" button and Master Volume dial.
post #829 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritholtz View Post

I need to invest on separate receiver to power zone 2. Is it possible to connect all 7 channels, zone 2 channels and switch between 5.1, zone 2 or 7.1 with options using X2000/E400?

This would only be possible if you invest in an A/B switch connected to the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts. Run Audyssey with Amp Assign set to "Surround Back" and the Surr Back speakers selected and then set Amp Assign to "Zone 2" and select the Zone 2 speakers when desired. Note that you would likely want to power down the AVR before changing the A/B switch.
post #830 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxter View Post

I wanted to share my experience with the X3000 on a couple of issues.

Even if Zone 2 is powered off, the HDMI matrix switch will handshake at the lowest common denominator of digital audio support between the 2 hdmi output devices. So even with my TV off and Z2 powered off, the receiver will handshake my input devices down to stereo. I went through all the settings and several microprocessor resets before I realized what was going on. Kind of annoying but it is easy enough to switch Z2 to another input so that I get Dolby Digital back.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing this. I'll add the info to the Zone 2 section of post #3.
post #831 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpostvt View Post


I did end up deciding to upgrade to the X4000. I can get this to do what I want with a splitter but I'd love to not and I don't buy a receiver often (expect to have it for 10 years) so the extra zone adds some future flexibility too. I do have HDMI and audi cables running from the receiver location to a basement workout room should I decide to add that to the loop...

Although it's been mentioned a few times already, it bears repeating .... with technology changing as fast as it does, it is no longer a given that an AVR will be future proofed more than 3-4 years, especially with HDMI 2.0 coming out later this year.
post #832 of 6940
I´m looking for an expert :-) who can give me an point if this Avr (x4000) is good or exelent in 2 ch.
Most of the time i use my HomeCinema for just 2 ch music so this is a dealbreaker for me. Today i running an Onkyo NR515.smile.gif
post #833 of 6940
Considering the 515 only uses the most basic version of Audyssey 2EQ, any Denon model with Audyssey (ie. E300 or higher) would be an upgrade for your 2CH listening, the X4000 the most pronounced as it uses the most advanced version of Audyssey MultEQ XT32.
post #834 of 6940
Thanks. But never use audisy :-) so my q was quality in pure music. Naturly without any changes...smile.gif
post #835 of 6940
My question would be why not use Audyssey? Have you at least tried setting it up to compare to DIRECT?
post #836 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You aren't missing anything. The E400 (or any other Denon really) does not have the ability to switch that way. Yamaha and I think Onkyo provide this but Denons don't.

Just look at the back -- there are only 7 pairs of speaker terminals. Period.
Thanks for patiently answering my basic questions. Onkyo TX-NR626 fits my media room and game room requirements. Yamaha RX-V675BL will work fine for my needs with a splitter. But it is missing MutliEQ. I am going to get both and spend some more time in understanding my requirements and options.
Edited by ritholtz - 6/20/13 at 9:09am
post #837 of 6940
Almost everything in changing the wave for music works, in my ears , not to the better. So I like and has always like an unchanged wave:cool:. Today I run my 515 unchanged in my room. It´s sound is very good. Why then move to another brand? The most of it for I need a little more power.
And of course always nice to try something else.
post #838 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

This would only be possible if you invest in an A/B switch connected to the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts. Run Audyssey with Amp Assign set to "Surround Back" and the Surr Back speakers selected and then set Amp Assign to "Zone 2" and select the Zone 2 speakers when desired. Note that you would likely want to power down the AVR before changing the A/B switch.
Thanks for the A/B switch option. Yamaha RX-V675BL comes with extra speaker posts. My only concern is missing MultiEQ functionality after spending some time on these forums. Is YPAO going to be as good as MultiEQ. Am i thinking too much about YPAO vs MultiEQ.
post #839 of 6940
Quote:
Originally Posted by PickePock View Post

I´m looking for an expert :-) who can give me an point if this Avr (x4000) is good or exelent in 2 ch.
Most of the time i use my HomeCinema for just 2 ch music so this is a dealbreaker for me. Today i running an Onkyo NR515.smile.gif
The avr-x4000 review on audioholics said 2 ch audio was excellent.
post #840 of 6940
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritholtz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

This would only be possible if you invest in an A/B switch connected to the Surr Back/Amp Assign speaker posts. Run Audyssey with Amp Assign set to "Surround Back" and the Surr Back speakers selected and then set Amp Assign to "Zone 2" and select the Zone 2 speakers when desired. Note that you would likely want to power down the AVR before changing the A/B switch.
Thanks for the A/B switch option. Yamaha RX-V675BL comes with extra speaker posts. My only concern is missing MultiEQ functionality after spending some time on these forums. Is YPAO going to be as good as MultiEQ. Am i thinking too much about YPAO vs MultiEQ.

No, YPAO isn't anywhere near as good as Audyssey MultEQ. Plus in addition you get Dynamic EQ / Volume, it's not just the room correction.
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