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The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 33

post #961 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

Is the PVR hooked up to cable by any chance? confused.gif

Cable is notorious for grounding issues! mad.gif

If you are hooked to cable, pull off the cable coax while still leaving the PVR connected and I would not be surprised if the problem disappears!


...Glenn smile.gif

It is connected to cable, yes. It is grounded, and I've got a galvanic isolation piece on the antenna.

Pulling off the coax cable doesn't help anything at all with the buzzing, neither does disconnecting it from the receiver by unplugging the HDMI cable. Turning it off helps... On the 3808 this was not an issue at all, but here it is rather problematic. Tips appreciated - fortunately the cable company has a new model coming out later this summer, so I'm keeping the X4000, crossing my fingers and turning off the PVR a bit. Curses will occur when I forgot to turn it on afterwards.
post #962 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The bottom line is this: The X4000 has 7 amps, and you have 9 speakers listed (5.1 + four in-ceiling speakers in other "zones"). So you will need at least some external amplification to power all 9 speakers.

Theoretically, if the Gym and Bar were "connected" as one zone and played the same source, you could use a speaker splitter to feed them the same Zone 2 signal (with the HDMI Zone 2 split as well for video).... but it sounds from your description that the Gym will actually be an extension of main zone (Theater) whereas the Bar needs to be fully independent.

So what I would recommend is this:

- Theater Room is obviously the main zone with 5.1 setup and HDMI 1 monitor connection for video
- Gym gets the HDMI 2 monitor feed so it will receive the same video as the Theater; assign internal amps to Zone 3 to power in-ceiling speakers for when you want audio
- Bar area is Zone 2, with HDMI Zone 2 output feeding independent HDMI video/audio signal to the LCD in there. Get an inexpensive 2ch external amp to power the in-ceiling speakers from Zone 2 pre-outs

(the reason Bar area is Zone 2 and Gym is Zone 3 is because the HDMI Zone output is attached to Zone 2)

If you chose to just use the TV speakers in one of the other areas then you would be fine with the 7 internal amps.

And, yes, the X4000 can output digital or analog audio to other zones so you are covered there.

Thanks, Perfect explanation, I think you saved me two days of testing and messing around. Thanks again, Greatly Greatly Appreciated.

-Dennis
post #963 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyzzy01 View Post

It is connected to cable, yes. It is grounded, and I've got a galvanic isolation piece on the antenna.

Pulling off the coax cable doesn't help anything at all with the buzzing, neither does disconnecting it from the receiver by unplugging the HDMI cable. Turning it off helps... On the 3808 this was not an issue at all, but here it is rather problematic. Tips appreciated - fortunately the cable company has a new model coming out later this summer, so I'm keeping the X4000, crossing my fingers and turning off the PVR a bit. Curses will occur when I forgot to turn it on afterwards.

What about bypassing the AVR and connecting the PVR HDMI directly to the TV with optical out from the PVR to the AVR for surround audio which is the recommended configuration to avoid HDMI handshake issues and perhaps your issue as well?
post #964 of 6974
argh....left the house for 45 minutes to take son to swim. Sure enough, come back and find the "signature required" tag on my front door...
damn..so much for hooking up the 4000 tonight...
post #965 of 6974
If it's UPS or Fed Ex, they may have a nearby distribution center open until 8pm that you could go to pick it up.
post #966 of 6974
Just found out my x4000 will be here on friday. I know what my weekend plans are.
post #967 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcxiiad View Post

Just found out my x4000 will be here on friday. I know what my weekend plans are.
:-)
post #968 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

What about bypassing the AVR and connecting the PVR HDMI directly to the TV with optical out from the PVR to the AVR for surround audio which is the recommended configuration to avoid HDMI handshake issues and perhaps your issue as well?

Even when the PVR is disconnected from anything (cable and HDMI unplugged), there is noise. There are two reasons I can think of - EMF affecting the receiver, or it affecting the electricity supplied to the receiver. The 3808 with the same connections in the same location did not have the same problem, so somewhere Denon skimped on something that causes this effect.
post #969 of 6974
App ?

not sure which one to get. 3 zones or another option to accomplish this.

5.1 HT in LR

1 bedroom tv

Outdoor area audio only

x2000 or x3000
post #970 of 6974
Quote:
Count me as one of those who find XT32 to be a game changer in the AVR/pre-pro sweepstakes. I've been using a 4311 now for over a year. It replaced several iterations of Pioneer's SC series, as well as a brie stint with a Marantz SR 7007. XT32 was the difference maker. Plus, the 4311 has a really robust amp section, too. Not sure of the newer Denon's.

I have to concur 100% regarding XT32. Had friends over last night that commented out of the blue how much clearer the center channel dialog was now that I have the 4520 vs my old 4310. And one of those friends just installed an X4000 a couple of weeks ago - he seems to think that the X4000 has more than enough power to run his M & K speakers at any sane ( and perhaps even insane ) volumn levels. Speaking of insane volumn levels -

I can say for sure that the amps in the 4520 are robust - we got slammed upside the head last night watching Looper with the volumn set at 84 and 11.1 speakers going. I think my ears are still ringing.......smile.gifeek.gif
post #971 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo2012 View Post

App ?

not sure which one to get. 3 zones or another option to accomplish this.

5.1 HT in LR

1 bedroom tv

Outdoor area audio only

x2000 or x3000

Of the two, the X3000 is the only one that has a Zone 2 HDMI out that you could connect to the bedroom TV.
post #972 of 6974
X2000 or x3000?

2.0 in LV with HTPC (Mac mini with optical output to AVR), DVR, TV, Apple TV
2.0 in kitchen
2.0 on deck

Currently using AVR-789. When using a Niles speaker selector for third set of speakers, I don't like the audio quality.
post #973 of 6974
So just hooked uP my x4000 in plac f the old denon and it seemed to work fine until I actually played a bluray. The osd only works if I'm already in the dennon menu. When the source is dispaed I get nothing, not even volume on screen even though I've enabled it all in the denon


Is the one of these times I have to do full resets? If so do I ave to redo firmware and audyssey sections afterwards ?

Total bummer. Sorry for my phone typing skills.
post #974 of 6974
Your words are too jumbled to comprehend, sorry, but as far as the reset goes, it will not change any firmware version that has been installed, and if you use the Web Control feature (pp. 132-133) you can SAVE the confg file to a PC and LOAD it after doing the reset if you don't want to have to run the Audyssey setup again.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_E9
post #975 of 6974
Thanks jdsmoothie, I will be trying this tomorrow night when I get control of the tv again and report back. My problem is that the OSD is not working while any source content is displaying; however, it does display fine while in the 'setup' menu. If I update firmware will it reset audyssey settings?
post #976 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbk1799 View Post

X2000 or x3000?

2.0 in LV with HTPC (Mac mini with optical output to AVR), DVR, TV, Apple TV
2.0 in kitchen
2.0 on deck

Currently using AVR-789. When using a Niles speaker selector for third set of speakers, I don't like the audio quality.

Perhaps you could elaborate on your actual physical connections to the 789? I would guess that you have the 2.0 setup as FL/FR and the Niles connected to the Zone 2 speaker posts with the kitchen and deck speakers connected to the Niles? The 789 is a 7.1 AVR with Zone 2 speaker posts and Zone 2 pre-outs neither of which would use Audyssey so audio quality would not be expected to be as good as your 2CH listening in the main zone with Audyssey. As the 789 only uses Audyssey MultEQ, upgrading to either the X2000 or X3000 would include the more advanced MultEQ XT so audio quality in the main zone should be somewhat improved although again, no Audyssey on Zone 2. Whether you upgrade to the X3000 depends on whether you want any of the additional features offered on that model to include passing the Zone 2 (HDMI) to the 789 and then being able to add a TV to either the kitchen or deck speakers.
post #977 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Thanks jdsmoothie, I will be trying this tomorrow night when I get control of the tv again and report back. My problem is that the OSD is not working while any source content is displaying; however, it does display fine while in the 'setup' menu. If I update firmware will it reset audyssey settings?

Ah ... I would first try a "soft reset" by simply unplugging the AVR for about 10 minutes, If that doesn't resolve the issue, then try the reset. Although updating the firmware generally does not result in any settings/Audyssey changes, it's always a good idea to have a confirmed "good" PC backup of the config file just in case something does get changed.
post #978 of 6974
Quote:
Perhaps you could elaborate on your actual physical connections to the 789? I would guess that you have the 2.0 setup as FL/FR and the Niles connected to the Zone 2 speaker posts with the kitchen and deck speakers connected to the Niles? The 789 is a 7.1 AVR with Zone 2 speaker posts and Zone 2 pre-outs neither of which would use Audyssey so audio quality would not be expected to be as good as your 2CH listening in the main zone with Audyssey. As the 789 only uses Audyssey MultEQ, upgrading to either the X2000 or X3000 would include the more advanced MultEQ XT so audio quality in the main zone should be somewhat improved although again, no Audyssey on Zone 2. Whether you upgrade to the X3000 depends on whether you want any of the additional features offered on that model to include passing the Zone 2 (HDMI) to the 789 and then being able to add a TV to either the kitchen or deck speakers.

I don't recall whether I had the Niles on Zone 2 or on Zone 1's B speakers. The volume and quality in the kitchen was significantly degraded when connected to the selector, so I stopped using it.

I want the living room and kitchen on the same zone since we normally would want the same output in those rooms. I would like the outside speakers on zone 2 so music could be played outside regardless of what is going on in the living room or kitchen. I am not interested in passing digital video to zone 2. If my understanding is correct, the X2000 would allow me to play digital audio (HDMI or optical) sources on zone 2.

Thanks JDS!
post #979 of 6974
Thread Starter 
All of the E/X receivers can pass digital audio to Zone 2 but only in "All Zone Stereo" party mode, which requires the same audio source in all zones.

The X3000 and X4000 however have true independent digital audio to Zone 2/3, including HDMI sources. So if you want to play a digital source on the outside speakers while doing something different in the living room / kitchen, you need the X3000.

Given that the living room and kitchen speakers will be in the same "zone", and you are only running stereo, you might want to hook up the kitchen speakers as surrounds (so you would effectively be running a 4ch setup with no center) and then you could easily toggle them on/off by switching between STEREO and MULTICH STEREO surround modes. The outside speakers would hook up to the surr.back amps with Amp Assign set to ZONE2 for independent use.
post #980 of 6974
Hi everyone,
I recently started having problems with my 15 year old sony receiver and I think it is finally time to upgrade. I'm a 5.1 user and will likely go to 7.1 in the future. Anyway, I've been reading for days now about the new X-series receivers and I can't decide on what to purchase, so I was hoping so of the more experienced people here can help. I can't decide between the X2000 and last year's 2313CI.

From what I can tell, the X2000 has better zone control (which I will never use), but the 2313CI has more power per channel.
The "Video Select" function discussed on page 1 of this thread is something I'd use, but Denon's website shows that it is also on the 2313CI.
The Passthrough function is something I'd use frequently, as I do not always have the AVR on. The page 1 breakdown says it defaults to always "ON" and the source is CBL/SAT ... can I set this up on the 2313 to perform the same way?
Full color GUI - while this sounds petty, I actually like this. I'm assuming it is not present on the 2313CI?
The info button screen shot shown on page 1 (nice choice on Avengers) is also a very neat feature, does the 2313CI do this too?
AM Radio - no big deal, with AirPlay I'll never use the radio again. Pandora beats all my local radio stations smile.gif
They both have the same Audyssey, so that part is easy...

Are there any other differences between the two that would be a deal breaker on the 2313CI? The 2313CI is $50 cheaper and is rated at a higher power output... seems like the better deal to me. The X2000 is the new shiny equipment though, which is hard to turn away from...

Thanks for any help provided!
post #981 of 6974
Thread Starter 
Quote:
From what I can tell, the X2000 has better zone control (which I will never use)

The 2313 actually has a little more control options for Zone 2, the advantage of the X2000 is that it can pass digital sources in All Zone Stereo mode (the 2313's Zone 2 is analog only).

The new models also have a minor improvement in Airplay functionality in that you can pipe Airplay to Zone 2 while the main zone is powered off. On the 2313 if you turn the main zone off, the Airplay stream will drop. But if you won't use Zone 2 at all, these differences are moot.

Quote:
The "Video Select" function discussed on page 1 of this thread is something I'd use, but Denon's website shows that it is also on the 2313CI.

All Denon receivers have a "Video Select" function -- the critical difference is that the E/X series models are the FIRST ever to allow HDMI sources to be used. Previous models required kludgy workarounds (e.g. using a component video cable or physically re-assigning the inputs) to HD video with a separate audio stream.

The other advantage is that on the new models the Video Select is easier to access, using the OPTION button on the remote. With the older models you would have to dig into the input setup menus to get it to work.

Quote:
The Passthrough function is something I'd use frequently, as I do not always have the AVR on. The page 1 breakdown says it defaults to always "ON" and the source is CBL/SAT ... can I set this up on the 2313 to perform the same way?

Yes, it's just a change in the default settings to match the most typical use case.

Quote:
The info button screen shot shown on page 1 (nice choice on Avengers) is also a very neat feature, does the 2313CI do this too?

No, that's why it was specifically highlighted on page 1. The 2313CI has an INFO button but it simply tells you the source and surround mode.

Quote:
Full color GUI - while this sounds petty, I actually like this. I'm assuming it is not present on the 2313CI?

Wrong smile.gif they both have essentially the same GUI.

Quote:
AM Radio - no big deal, with AirPlay I'll never use the radio again. Pandora beats all my local radio stations

That's my feeling. And you can always get local radio stations from Internet Radio if you need to.

Quote:
Are there any other differences between the two that would be a deal breaker on the 2313CI? The 2313CI is $50 cheaper and is rated at a higher power output... seems like the better deal to me. The X2000 is the new shiny equipment though, which is hard to turn away from...

You've nailed most of the major points. They are very similar overall -- same MultEQ XT calibration, same video processing chip, same network streaming options, similar GUI, etc. The X2000 does have an extra rear HDMI input too if that matters.

Note that the 2313 has a physically larger (deeper) chassis, allowing for the beefier amps and greater connectivity. Although it gives up one HDMI input it has a more connectivity otherwise, including two component video inputs, two HDMI outputs, etc.
post #982 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Thanks jdsmoothie, I will be trying this tomorrow night when I get control of the tv again and report back. My problem is that the OSD is not working while any source content is displaying; however, it does display fine while in the 'setup' menu. If I update firmware will it reset audyssey settings?

Ah ... I would first try a "soft reset" by simply unplugging the AVR for about 10 minutes, If that doesn't resolve the issue, then try the reset. Although updating the firmware generally does not result in any settings/Audyssey changes, it's always a good idea to have a confirmed "good" PC backup of the config file just in case something does get changed.

So after reading the microprocessor reset instructions I found it was easier to try that first since I'd have to move furniture to get to the plug again. Did it 4 times for extra special overkill insurance and am happy to report that fixed the GUI OSD issue. Look forward to doing audyssey setup again and test driving this thing.
post #983 of 6974
I finally got my X2000 unboxed and hooked up today. It works great so far, but I have to wait for a quiet moment to run Audyssey. Hopefully this evening.

Anyway, I have a question that is a holdover from 2312. For those using a Harmony with their Denons, what delay settings are you using? Mine wasn't responding quickly enough after power on with my 2312 so I increased the power on delay to 6000 ms (from 2000 ms). I set the inter-key delay to 0 (from 100), but it doesn't seem any different. The input and inter-device delays are at the defaults of 1000 and 500 ms respectively. In general, the Harmony is much more sluggish than the factory remotes for both the 2312 and the X2000. For example, if I press Volume up 4 times, I have to wait for the harmony to change the volume 4 times, whereas with the factory remotes, it goes up 4 times very quickly as I press the buttons. Does everyone using Harmonys have the same issue or are there some better settings? I know this is more of a Harmony question, but it's specific to the Denon devices. I don't have this problem with my other equipment.
post #984 of 6974
After reading some feedback here regarding MultiEQ vs XT, looks like difference is more perceivable with higher end speaker equipment. Is it true?
I have Definitive 5.1 speaker system in living area. Probably better to stick with E400 for features instead of swinging for 1713 clearance model.
Bestbuy is yet to reduce prices a lot for 2013 CI series. I am assuming, XT will make difference in media room with JBL 7.1 studio series speaker system.
Edited by ritholtz - 6/28/13 at 4:00pm
post #985 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Note that the 2313 has a physically larger (deeper) chassis, allowing for the beefier amps and greater connectivity. Although it gives up one HDMI input it has a more connectivity otherwise, including two component video inputs, two HDMI outputs, etc.
Awesome batpig, thank you! I think I've got which one I want all figured out!
post #986 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The headphone processor would also have an HDMI cable connected to the TV. For your late night viewing, you would then change the main zone video output to Monitor 2 (p. 163 OM) and the "HDMI Audio Out" (p. 161 OM) to "TV". Nothing would then be playing to the main zone speakers so no volume adjustment of these speakers would be required for your late night viewing.

The Zone 2 (HDMI) output could be connected directly to the Zone 2 TV to use the TV's speakers or you could connect a set of stereo speakers to the SBL/SBR speaker posts and pass PCM 2.0 audio to them for use with the TV.

My x4000 came today, and I am trying to figure out the best way to set this up. Here is a more detailed version of what I am trying to accomplish:

The x4000 will go into an AV rack that is in the room above the main tv. Since that tv is next to the master bedroom, and the primary place my wife and I watch TV, I have wireless headphones to watch loud movies when she has gone to bed. These connect to the x4000 via hdmi. finally, there is a second tv that the receiver serve. This is just a 2 channel setup.

The main tv and the wireless headphones will ALWAY be mirrored content. The headphone processor has an in and out hdmi port, so it needs to connect to one of the x4000's hdmi outputs that sends out audio . The ideal way would be to have the x4000 connect to the headphone processor and then plug into the second hdmi on the tv. Although due to the way everything is already wired, I can't get another HDMI cable from the x4000 to the tv. In stead I am thinking that I will just turn the volume all the way down on the main zone and enable the headphone hdmi zone for audio.

It would be ideal if the second TV could mirror and play a different HDMI source from the main. Although if that is just too complex, I would learn to live with them all pushing out the same video content.

I want to verify that I am setting the x4000 correctly. I need to figure out which hdmi outs go where and what speaker/amp mode to assign.

main zone: Primary TV, 5.1 audio

small tv Zone: 2 channel. would prefer matrix, but can settle for mirror only.

last zone will power a sony mds7500 headphone. these are an audio substitute while watching main zone.


Thanks in advance, hopefully it isn't too confusing.


UPDATE:

Had an idea:

Could I just do 2 zones:

Primary is everything hooked up to the receiver, then send the hdmi first in to the sony processor and then out to tv.

Second is the other 2 channel room.

Then when I want to use the headphones just switch the AVR to HDMI audio out, when I am done, switch it back? It isn't pretty, and obviously, I would prefer not to do this. But if it the only alternative, it is better then nothing.
Edited by mmcxiiad - 6/28/13 at 6:32pm
post #987 of 6974
My x4000 is fully operational. Xt32 has done amazing things for my 5.1 setup.... Not even sure how to explain how much better it sounds!

Thanks jdsmoothie, batpig, and John.
post #988 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcxiiad View Post


UPDATE:

Had an idea:

Could I just do 2 zones:

Primary is everything hooked up to the receiver, then send the hdmi first in to the sony processor and then out to tv.

Second is the other 2 channel room.

Then when I want to use the headphones just switch the AVR to HDMI audio out, when I am done, switch it back? It isn't pretty, and obviously, I would prefer not to do this. But if it the only alternative, it is better then nothing.

Huh? You quoted my 2 zone solution and then ignored it apparently so please read it again ....

HDMI Monitor 1 ---> Primary TV (Input 1)
HDMI Monitor 2 ---> Headphone processor ----> Primary TV (Input 2)
HDMI (Zone 2) ---> Small TV
post #989 of 6974
Quote:
Originally Posted by ritholtz View Post

After reading some feedback here regarding MultiEQ vs XT, looks like difference is more perceivable with higher end speaker equipment. Is it true?
I have Definitive 5.1 speaker system in living area. Probably better to stick with E400 for features instead of swinging for 1713 clearance model.
Bestbuy is yet to reduce prices a lot for 2013 CI series. I am assuming, XT will make difference in media room with JBL 7.1 studio series speaker system.

Although this is certainly more true with better quality speakers, there would still be some improvement with lower quality speakers as well, although even MultEQ will provide a decent experience so if the features of the E400 are preferred, then purchase it and enjoy as well. smile.gif
post #990 of 6974
Well, I ran Audyssey. The X2000 sounds pretty much like the 2312 did (not suprisingly). Is it true there aren't discrete on off codes anymore that don't turn on all the zones?
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