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iView-3500STB Tuner & DVR Owners Thread - Page 62

post #1831 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

HDMI only improves on other digital cabling by allowing more than 6 channels and Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS-MA HD. No of this means a damn thing to an iView.

To be clear, it's more accurate to say that HDMI is the only cable type that is permitted to transmit lossless formats like Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, because it complies with the asinine copy protections required for those formats. As you said, this doesn't matter to iView users, since DTV doesn't allow lossless audio.

Most of Leo King's points were debunked already, but one remains that needs correcting:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo King View Post

When we compress a CD audio track to MP3, for example, we will notice the bass (low frequency sound) suffers the most.

Not only is this wrong, but it is the exact opposite of the truth. High frequencies are the most difficult to represent in lossy encoding schemes, which is why most codecs (MP3, AAC, Vorbis, etc.) will apply a lowpass filter to remove the highest, inaudible frequencies that would waste the most bits while also providing no audible benefits. No lossy codec employs a default highpass filter, because low frequencies require a trivial number of bits to represent in comparison with high frequencies, so the low end in an MP3 will almost always be preserved, and it certainly does not suffer the most. If anything, it will probably suffer the least out of the audible frequencies.
post #1832 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

QAM and ATSC television deliver audio in AC3 (aka Dolby Digital) audio. It is digital.

Digital audio formats such as DD, DTS and PCM can be sent over an RCA cable IF it is the digital coax connector. This is different than the Left/Right (Red/White) connections.

Analog audio sent over RCA cables can be very high quality. It's why early (and current high end) Blu-ray players use the format for 5.1 and 7.1 analog connections to tuners (using 6 and 8 cables respectively instead of 2). One wire for each speaker's signal.

BUT, and here is the problem, digital audio MUST be converted to analog in order to pass it over the L/R cables. This requires digital to analog converter chips.
Cheap DACs found in cheap hardware will sound cheap. Good DACs are found in expensive hardware.
So while the connectors and cables are capable of passing good audio, the manufacturer of iView boxes will not have spent the money on high end DACs (if they had, you'd be paying more).

You would do better using the Digital Coaxial or HDMI output, and passing the audio to your AV receiver, which in all likelihood will do the job much better.

To be further clear. There is no bandwidth on analog cabling. That is a digital concept. It's only limitation is that the signal can only represent one channel of sound.
Digital coaxial has the same bandwidth limitations as optical audio connectors which is pretty much higher than DVD specs.

HDMI only improves on other digital cabling by allowing more than 6 channels and Dolby Digital TrueHD and DTS-MA HD. No of this means a damn thing to an iView.

Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Most of Leo King's points were debunked already, but one remains that needs correcting:
Not only is this wrong, but it is the exact opposite of the truth. High frequencies are the most difficult to represent in lossy encoding schemes, which is why most codecs (MP3, AAC, Vorbis, etc.) will apply a lowpass filter to remove the highest, inaudible frequencies that would waste the most bits while also providing no audible benefits. No lossy codec employs a default highpass filter, because low frequencies require a trivial number of bits to represent in comparison with high frequencies, so the low end in an MP3 will almost always be preserved, and it certainly does not suffer the most. If anything, it will probably suffer the least out of the audible frequencies.

That's what I thought, but I didn't have any "proof" handy.
post #1833 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by LenL View Post

Nickle2,

When I had this problem all I did was use the remote to turn the IVIEW off and then almost immediately back on and the signal was there. Maybe 2 different issues?

That is what I did and it came up OK
post #1834 of 3166
EDIT: Evelyn did in fact contact me. Took my info and will be sending a remote that will operate correctly with the upgraded firmware. We will see how this plays out.

Now I am starting to get upset. Has ANYONE had amy luck contacting the iView staff? I have sent emails, private messages inside this forum. No response. Been trying to get a firmware that works - but the only one that does requires a new remote to operate correctly. I emailed about the offer to give us owners a free remote. Never heard back. I have sent a copy of my invoice. No response. NO RESPONSE. So I am looking to the community here - has anyone got a response from them or received a remote or figured out HOW to order a remote? I can't return this device to Amazon (June 19 order date). I am stuck with basically a half functioning goodwill bound device. Unless I can get their attention.
Edited by Ben Walker - 9/13/13 at 2:56pm
post #1835 of 3166
I too am wondering how to order the new remote. I emailed them about the free new remote, but I did so after the deadline. Maybe that's why I got no response. Now I am wondering how I can order the new remote for $5, as was mentioned in a previous post.
post #1836 of 3166
Hi,
I was just informed that due to the limited amount of character space on the converter box display the word Menu cannot be written so instead they will use four dashes instead of Boot. The correct numbers cannot be displayed on this model because of the hardware. The next version of the converter box will have a different display layout that will perhaps allow wording and have the correct number displayed. The 3500STBII will still have the lock wording because it began mass production before our suggestions. For those with the page + and page – questions I am sorry for the confusion, but let me explain. Those two buttons have been remove, but the function is still available. On the new remote the buttons for the page + and page – functions now correspond to the «,» buttons. For those who prefer the V7 version instead of the new V3 we will be uploading the V7 version as well for those who want to revert to it. I am listening to your suggestions and we really do appreciate your help. For those who missed the promotional window, we will be taking orders for the new remote pretty soon; we are just waiting on the new website to be finished. I still do not know when the remote will be available or when the 3500STBII will hit the market. The tentative date they gave me was sometime mid September, but it seems like it is going to be pushed back. I will keep all of you updated. Sorry for all the confusion.

Thanks,

Evelyn
post #1837 of 3166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I was just informed that due to the limited amount of character space on the converter box display the word Menu cannot be written so instead they will use four dashes instead of Boot. The correct numbers cannot be displayed on this model because of the hardware.
Thanks for clarifying that. I wished this was brought forward much sooner. Per my suggestion regarding the display, how about just going with the four dashes instead of those confusing numbers for the channels? Actually killing the display altogether might be a better solution. wink.gif

They really have to get a handle on these FW version numbers. It's more confusing than the display. I don't know why they went backwards with the version number.
post #1838 of 3166
A common length for FP displays is seven characters, as that's the length limit of stations' PSIP identifiers, e.g. the four call letters plus one space or hyphen and either "HD" or "DT".
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

They really have to get a handle on these FW version numbers. It's more confusing than the display. I don't know why they went backwards with the version number.

The explanation I saw was that all of the "alpha" firmware revisions that you received for testing and passed onto the members here "didn't count", so that threw off the numbering. Even if that's the reason, it's still pretty sad that the developers can't count. It might explain quite a bit, though.
post #1839 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

To be further clear. There is no bandwidth on analog cabling. That is a digital concept. It's only limitation is that the signal can only represent one channel of sound.
Digital coaxial has the same bandwidth limitations as optical audio connectors which is pretty much higher than DVD specs.
Instead of being clear, every sentence is erroneous.

> There is no bandwidth on analog cabling.

Bandwidth is an intrinsic property of cable. It is a physical attribute that can be measured.
Quality cable, especially when used for signal transmission, will list this specification.
Only wire not intended for data or information will not bother with such a specification (e.g. power or hookup wire).

> That is a digital concept.

No, bandwidth is a property of the real, analog world.
You might hear about it in relation to digital signals because the digital signals/information have to be transmitted in an analog form (that's the purpose of modulations like 8VSB and QAM). Digital signals typically can consume a lot of bandwidth, so it becomes a concern if the cable or medium has insufficient bandwidth. Compression schemes have to be considered/employed to reduce bandwidth, and/or specifications and certification have to be in place (e.g. HDMI certification for cables) to ensure bandwidth requirements of the signal can be met.

> It's [sic] only limitation is that the signal can only represent one channel of sound.

Only because you are thinking of unbalanced, monophonic audio for a signal.
It is not an intrinsic limitation, but a design choice for simplicity and low cost to use one audio channel per connection.
An "analog cable" can carry many channels of audio (and video) if you put enough electronics at each end (as digital circuits do). Receiving TV and radio signals from a CableTV provider is an example of many channels of audio and video on one cable.

> Digital coaxial has the same bandwidth limitations as optical audio connectors which is pretty much higher than DVD specs.

You are confusing the bandwidth requirement of the signal with the bandwidth capability of the medium.
Of course digital audio would require the same bandwidth (assuming the same modulation) regardless of using coax (copper) or optical (fibre).
But fibre has much higher bandwidth capability than copper wire. That's why the phone and Internet backbone use fiber optics rather than copper coax.


Regards
Edited by blue_z - 9/5/13 at 7:04pm
post #1840 of 3166
Dude, what is your issue?
We are trying to unconfuse things. If you get technical about ANYTHING you can refute any statement.
It doesn't help people with minimal understanding understand things better.

Bandwidth was being discussed in the context of digital data, specifically in regards to the audio quality.
Something that doesn't apply to analog cabling which has no such limitation when passing analog audio.

No format that I am aware of, or that applies to this conversation, uses more than one channel of audio per cable for analog.

Optical vs Coaxial Digital: Talk about theory all you want, optical cabling is still considered inferior to RCA digital outputs because it is more prone to damage and problems.
Besides, while optical cable is awesome, its use in home theaters does not provide different audio audio data versus coaxial in any way.

The point it, shut up, blue_z. We are trying to simplify the issue, not talk esoterically about things that have nothing to do with the problem.
The issue at hand being RCA output sounds worse than HDMI on an iView box.
The answer is that the problem isn't the wiring but where the digital to analog conversion takes place.

And I'll chime in about audio compression. Low-pass filters ARE used in proper Dolby Digital encoding. But in general it is correct, high frequencies suffer the worst, low frequencies are preserved.
This has a lot to do with how the ear works, but stronger bass means lower bitrates can be used.
post #1841 of 3166
I just got a response from Evelyn. Maybe I emailed the wrong person at iView. I hope we get this all sorted out. The website does not have the updated remote on it. I am confused about which website is the THE website still. But at least there has been contact. That's a positive and I will accept it.
post #1842 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilmatrdj View Post

I have install V7, the Schedule daily and weekly work for the first schedule time, next daily record time will be next-day + 5 days. Next weekly schedule time is next week day + 5 days.E7jva

That's been stated here exhaustively.

Edit: I see all of this troll's posts have been deleted in all forums in case anyone was wondering what I was replying to.
Edited by jprc - 9/6/13 at 12:33pm
post #1843 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Walker View Post

I just got a response from Evelyn. Maybe I emailed the wrong person at iView. I hope we get this all sorted out. The website does not have the updated remote on it. I am confused about which website is the THE website still. But at least there has been contact. That's a positive and I will accept it.

Evelyn explained this a few posts before yours.

a. The new remote is NOT ready yet. It was supposed to be available mid Sept. but the date is slipping. Those of us who worked in IT know all to well this happens.

b. When it is ready it will probably be seen for sale on their newly designed website which is still being worked on.
post #1844 of 3166
I think the front display could just be set to off. Can a menu option be added to turn front display led on or off? As long as the power and lock light work you could till if the box was on or off.
post #1845 of 3166
The LED AlfaNumeric Display
Leave It Alone
What 's the Harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by troydog View Post

I think the front display could just be set to off. Can a menu option be added to turn front display led on or off? As long as the power and lock light work you could till if the box was on or off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

? Actually killing the display altogether might be a better solution. wink.gif

Some but not all think the LED display is useless.
Of course it would be better if it actually displayed the channel number but since that's not possible..... Why do away with the display entirely, as some have suggested?

Personally, and I know that johnnyrw2 , and perhaps many others find the display useful. Since I only view OTA I don't have all that many stations(22 I actually watch) to keep track of. Perhaps not the same for QAM viewers. To confusing for those maybe- . But again, at least there is something being displayed.
I've gotten to know that when he display shows C001 it is actually channel 2, C013 =11-1, C014 = 11-2, C027 = 60-1 and so on. Where is this most useful? If I have a recording scheduled and I'm not viewing thru the 3500 I can look and see if the STB came on at the pre-selected time and switched to the correct station.

Even though it does not show the correct channel it does show something and doing away with the display would be a mistake.
Perhaps having the option to turn it off would be a better solution. Then there is always the choice for those that don't want any display of other LED's Go out and buy a HmWrx Box. Why are some people bent on turning the 3500 into a HmWrx. I mean let's do away with the Page + and Page - buttons on the remote. After-all the HmWrx doesn't have them. Let's do away with the displays So that we can be equal (lower ourselves) to the HmWrx STB design model.

It would be nice if it could be programmed to show..... rEC for "record" t5Ft for "time-shift" , etc.. I would think that those options would be possible. Already we know it can display the word boot. Which I see no problem with. Why change the word to just dashes? What does it hurt to see the word boot when the thing is booting? I'm all for making changes when and where the changes are needed. But why make changes simply for the sake of change? If something ain't broken. why mess with it?
.
Edited by nickle2 - 9/7/13 at 2:53pm
post #1846 of 3166
I agree with nickle2 to keep the display. More information is better than less. You can alway scott tape display to avoid too sharp red LED as some suggest before.
post #1847 of 3166
Agree with NIckle2 (sometimes).

If you don't like the display there have been a number of suggestions made on this forum for the IVIEW owners to take it into their own hands and hide it, mute it etc. If IVIEW can make it more useful great, but I don't want to see it go away.
post #1848 of 3166
Did I read that earlier post correctly that the 3500STBII is going to have a different display?
post #1849 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Did I read that earlier post correctly that the 3500STBII is going to have a different display?

No, Evelyn said the next (hardware) version, not the 3500STBII, would have a different display.
post #1850 of 3166
I just ordered one of these to replace my Samsung H260f. Mainly because I don't have any remotes that can control that STB and it's stuck with simply CBS forever.

I hope I'm happy with this gizmo ... seems like it may be a bit buggy from what I've read.

Plus,... I don't know when the QAM I get could disappear.... any day I guess. Antennae does nothing for me where I live. zip. My house had a large roof mounted antennae with a motor to rotate it but you get nothing here that way.

-Brian
post #1851 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jprc View Post

No, Evelyn said the next (hardware) version, not the 3500STBII, would have a different display.
There's another model in the work already? Any word when that is coming out?
post #1852 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

There's another model in the work already? Any word when that is coming out?

I don't have any inside information. I wouldn't be waiting around for it if you need a box anytime soon. Even the "II" version has been pushed back a bit. Either buy the current box and get a new remote when they become available or wait for the II to be available to buy. Or just get a different DVR/PVR/convertor/whatever_you_need altogether. Waiting for the next version with indeterminate specs at an indefinite time means you don't actually need one. There will always be a next version to wait for - you have to buy sometime or decide you just don't need it.
post #1853 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

There's another model in the work already? Any word when that is coming out?

Also do you want to be a beta tester for the new model? At least with the current IView we know what we have.
post #1854 of 3166

Apologies if these anomalies have been documented here (or anywhere) on the Aug 2013 v3 firmware.  I've only used this box for cable:

 

The Iview splash screen changes from yellow to white (so what?).

 

The "antenna loop through" function no longer works (somewhat moot unless you wish to "cascade" units that would have to stay on at all times}.  Reverting back to the older v7 firmware restores this function.  Modulating on Ch3/4 continues to work normally.

 

Scanning qam channels with v3 now removes all channels without a virtual channel in the Psip TVCT table.  This is unfortunate, because some cable companies strip all of them, mine strips some of them.  The older v7 software will put these in the list, but one must manually remove the scrambled channels. A full or manual scan under v3 firmware will NOT find any QAM channel that does not have a virtual channel listed in its TVCT.  This would explain why some users get no channels at all after the new firmware is applied.

 

It would seem that the "improved QAM tuning" mentioned on the firmware site is based on the fact that only cable channels with a virtual channel number assigned are allowed to be decoded, and that all others are considered scrambled or irrelevant.  IMO This would hardly be the case.  To get those channels that do not have a virtual channel number in the Psip, one must revert back to the earlier v7 and do a complete scan, or a manual scan if you know where they exist. Then upgrade to v3 firmware, without doing a factory reset.  By upgrading the firmware, this causes the initial setup to occur that requires a channel scan.  One must use the "skip" button to get through each and every channel as it progresses through the scan.  Additionally, several of the menu settings (country, air/cable, time zone, etc.} revert to their default setting.

 

Speaking of time, my cable company (Comcast) seems to think that their headquarters in
Denver CO is where GMT begins, so I must use manual, and select GMT+2.  For those who do get a correct time from their cable company that is offset by an hour, if you are on the east coast and select "Canada" for your country of choice, you could use the "Atlantic time zone" setting to get the correct time.  This is generic over v3/v7.

 

Tuning with the remote will now call up channels that have the TVCT present with just the first two digits (no need to enter -1). For instance, Channel 11-1 can be called up with the remote with 11 and OK.  For those channels without a TVCT, you must plug in the entire channel number along with the subchannel number - ie 80-27, or it will show "invalid channel number".

 

Considering that cable companies move their channel allocations around all the time requiring a rescan, and might occasionally add a channel (free Showtime for a weekend, etc.), this procedure to re-obtain clear channels would be a PITA whenever this happens on a cable system.  Perhaps the next firmware version (or the new STBII) can address this.

 

If more memory is required, the games can certainly be dumped...:D But I, like some others here think the display should be kept.

post #1855 of 3166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

Plus,... I don't know when the QAM I get could disappear.... any day I guess. Antennae does nothing for me where I live. zip. My house had a large roof mounted antennae with a motor to rotate it but you get nothing here that way.

-Brian

If the antenna was able to receive signals in the past, there probably are receivable signals now. Stations retained most of their pre-digital transition coverage area, and in many cases it actually increased. Have you actually used it with a digital tuner? If not, you simply don't know what is out there. If you have used it with a digital tuner, is it a VHF only antenna, or a VHF/UHF combo antenna? Many stations moved to UHF in the transition and are no longer receivable on VHF only antennas.
post #1856 of 3166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Scanning qam channels with v3 now removes all channels without a virtual channel in the Psip TVCT table. This is unfortunate, because some cable companies strip all of them, mine strips some of them. The older v7 software will put these in the list, but one must manually remove the scrambled channels. A full or manual scan under v3 firmware will NOT find any QAM channel that does not have a virtual channel listed in its TVCT. This would explain why some users get no channels at all after the new firmware is applied.

To get those channels that do not have a virtual channel number in the Psip, one must revert back to the earlier v7 and do a complete scan, or a manual scan if you know where they exist. Then upgrade to v3 firmware, without doing a factory reset. By upgrading the firmware, this causes the initial setup to occur that requires a channel scan. One must use the "skip" button to get through each and every channel as it progresses through the scan.
Anyone disagree with this?

This would answer a bunch of questions about QAM tuning from one version to another. When I did a manual entry with either version IIRC did find channels with no virtual number assignment.
Quote:
Considering that cable companies move their channel allocations around all the time requiring a rescan, and might occasionally add a channel (free Showtime for a weekend, etc.), this procedure to re-obtain clear channels would be a PITA whenever this happens on a cable system.
It's a PITA either way when they play musical channels. (That's musical, not music)

.
Edited by videobruce - 9/9/13 at 4:50pm
post #1857 of 3166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The LED AlfaNumeric Display
Leave It Alone
What 's the Harm?

Quote:
Originally Posted by troydog
I think the front display could just be set to off. Can a menu option be added to turn front display led on or off? As long as the power and lock light work you could till if the box was on or off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce
?Actually killing the display altogether might be a better solution.

Some but not all think the LED display is useless.
Of course it would be better if it actually displayed the channel number but since that's not possible..... Why do away with the display entirely, as some have suggested?
I suppose I better respond to this.

I always prefer choices, the ability to enable or disable a feature/function. Unfortunately, Evelyn has stated it isn't possible to kill the display no doubt due to the way it is tried into the rest of the font panel. (IR receiver). I guess I'm so use to not having a display non equipment for the past 10-15 years, displays as this I find less than ideal so the fast solution is turn it off or just get rid of it.
I don't see a problem with the term :boot" at boot time. Displaying the seam term when the menu is open was a problem that as addressed.

Funny, the other version has no display and I don't remember seeing anyone here or in the other thread complain about the lack of one. wink.gif
post #1858 of 3166
Thread Starter 
On a separate note, when the new remote becomes available here is a comparison between the original and the replacement;

Post #1 updated.

Remotes comparision.JPG 529k .JPG file



Edited by videobruce - 9/9/13 at 5:13pm
post #1859 of 3166
Do you have ht eremote right now? If so does it glow in the dark or have back lite?
post #1860 of 3166
I was going to complain about the lack of a play and pause button on the new remote but finally figured out that they combined those functions to one button.
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