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iView-3500STB Tuner & DVR Owners Thread - Page 30

post #871 of 3152
Wonder if installing that firmware in a iView would work or if it might make the iView only work with a Homeworx remote?? If so and you didn't have a Homeworx remote you wouldn't be able to fall back to iView's firmware. Don't think I'll be trying it anytime soon but it would sure be nice to have some of our bugs fixed smile.gif
I agree, really nice how Homeworx is distributing the firmware and telling what it fixes.
post #872 of 3152
I am brave gave it a try but box well not take it it just restarts and never updates.
post #873 of 3152
Regarding A previous Post Where iView Firmware was Installed On A Homeworx STB

This is from Page 19 Post 558 Dated 3 week 4 days ago
User Frostcall:

Quote:
I have the HomeWorX HW-150PVR and I flashed it with the V6 firmware listed on the first page and it broke my box. It turns on and shows a single channel but the remote control and buttons on the box no longer work. It won't accept inputs. DO NOT try this at home with a HomeWorX unit. To be fair, it never said that it would work with the HomeWorx wink.gif

-UPDATE-

I just bought an iView and found that the HomeWorx now will work with the iView remote but not with the HomeWorx remote. Looks like the remotes are using different codes and the firmware is looking for the iView. Just a heads up, don't flash your HomeWorx box with the iView firmware; it works but unless you have the iView remote, it's useless. Also, the HomeWorx remote is 10x better than the iView.
Edited by Frostcall - 6/21/13 at 9:46pm
eek.gifDon't Try This At Home eek.gif
More Than Likely Results Would Be Reversed
With installing HomeWorx Firmware On The iView
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Edited by nickle2 - 7/16/13 at 4:06pm
post #874 of 3152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I, for one, welcome our new Chinese overlords.
I would welcome them more if they would allow firmware coding in the US instead of overseas where they seem to continue to be clueless with what is needed here. mad.gif
post #875 of 3152
The location of the programmers doesn't matter. The competence of the programmers does.
post #876 of 3152
Thread Starter 
But, if they don't understand our culture (wants, needs etc.), all the competence doesn't mean squat.
post #877 of 3152
You get what you paid for. I'm sure there are (like here) excellent to poor quality software folks. Some very experienced and then the rookies. It will show up in the programming.

More importantly you have the issue of the programmers getting the correct requirements. I think this is probably the major issue with the IView not the coding of the firmware. Right out of the box the software was NOT designed for the US market. If the people giving them the changes have no clue as to what the US market requires you can't really blame the software people. VB and Nickle2 have done a lot of work for IView in that regard. Not sure IView is taking advantage of all the help they are getting from this forum.
post #878 of 3152
Are We Beating A Dead Horse?

videobruce.....

Just wondering. When was the last time you corresponded with Robert Chui ?
About two weeks back you made a comment about how you felt that another firmware update was "looming" . Which leads me to think that Robert had implied something was about to come forth.

If you haven't heard any news lately then I'd start to suspect that all this is going nowhere.

In the past I corresponded with Robert a couple of times. But since then have not heard back from him on a questions I asked and comments I made.
I know you mentioned that you had talked to him personally over the telephone. So, it seems you may or may have had his ear at one time.

With the recent release of the HomeWorx firmware, We know that someone, somewhere is actively working on correcting the problems. If we don't receive any up-dates, then I suspect that these companies (iView, HomeWorx, etc,) are acting independently. Which is not a good thing for us.

If I were trying to get the problems corrected and learned that someone else had made strides in the right direction, I'd reverse engineer what they accomplished and implement the changes. That should be entirely possible since it is the same core program.
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The big difference I see between iView and HomeWorx and the end users when it comes to these forums is this.....
On the MediaSonic forum for their STB, they have an administrator that seems to either work for HomeWork or is closely working with them.
We don't have that type of relationship with iView. I'd have more confidence in iView if someone from iView took on a more active role in working with us. There a lots of very knowledgeable and talented people here (willing to help for free) on these forums and iView is letting it all go to waste.

LenL Wrote:
Quote:
Not sure IView is taking advantage of all the help they are getting from this forum.
I'll Second That

At times, I think we are all mushrooms here..... being kept in the dark. mad.gif
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Edited by nickle2 - 7/16/13 at 7:27am
post #879 of 3152
Used the new Homeworx firmware and Homeworx confirmed that their unit does not tune Clear QAM. I do get it on other devices hooked up to Charter Cable .
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

TV stations are only required to broadcast 12hrs of PSIP guide info but many do more(some do less). 2 days is probably about as good as you'll get, PSIP guides aren't that great.
Are you sure you have any clear QAM channels available? I lost mine some time ago. I'd hook up another device like a HDTV to see if it gets any clear QAM channels, if it does then your tuner should get them also.
Lastly did you use the iView firmware? I had though you couldn't do that, I thought someone tried it and it bricked their Homework box.
post #880 of 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickle2 View Post

tahoejoe...
[/B][Reports HomeWorx Firmware Released[/B]
When you say,
What time issue are you referring to. There are several.
Time Zones FIXED
Daylight Savings FIXED
24 hour vs 12 hour format STILL 24 HOUR
Recordings that span midnight DON'T KNOW
Scheduling Daily and Weekly Recordings TOO SOON TO KNOW BUT THEY SAY IT DOES
Did I leave out some?

You further state that EPG works as it should now? Except for only 2 days of listings. Not that big an issue.
Has the problem of text from previous listings not getting purged from the right pane been corrected? APPEARS TO BE BUT DOES TAKE SOME TIME TO LOAD
Are you able to scroll through pages of text in the right pane of the EPG screen (page 1of 3, 2 of 3, etc.) ONLY GETTING ONE PAGE DESCRIPTIONS

If I remember correctly the HomeWorx STB came with the same Version 3 firmware most of us started out with.
Over the weeks or months we have seen several improvements from the original firmware,

So the question is.... do you still basically have version 3 with only the improvements you just announced here?
Or, do you see the same improvements we have in the now version 7 of the iView firmware.

Maybe there is some hope for the 3500 after-all.
I'd say it all depends on who is doing the debugging, Is it someone like from Mstar doing it for all? Or, is it up to the individual marketing concerns like iview, and HomeWorx, etc..
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post #881 of 3152
Results From tahoejoe Testing HomeWorx Version 10 Firmware:

Thanks for reporting back to us.
Please continue to test the daily and weekly scheduling, as well as the recordings that span midnight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahoejoe View Post

Regarding Time Related Issues:
Time Zones    FIXED
Daylight Savings     FIXED
24 hour vs 12 hour format    STILL 24 HOUR
Recordings that span midnight    DON'T KNOW
Scheduling Daily and Weekly Recordings    TOO SOON TO KNOW BUT THEY SAY IT DOES

Regarding EPG:
Has the problem of text from previous listings not getting purged from the right pane been corrected?
    APPEARS TO BE BUT DOES TAKE SOME TIME TO LOAD

Are you able to scroll through pages of text in the right pane of the EPG screen (page 1of 3, 2 of 3, etc.)
     ONLY GETTING ONE PAGE DESCRIPTIONS
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post #882 of 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

But, if they don't understand our culture (wants, needs etc.), all the competence doesn't mean squat.

The main problems with this box are unrelated to culture. You don't need to live in the United States to know that there are seven days in a week or that using the EPG shouldn't cause the unit to freeze. The 3500 has serious functional flaws that demonstrate gross incompetence and QC failures on the part of iView. Any "cultural" flaws, such as which colour the power LED is, are secondary to basic functionality. If the unit actually worked, then it would make sense to complain about the little things, but there are bigger fish to fry in a DVR this bad.
post #883 of 3152
Good points!

But I have to say my unit does actually work. I have had a few hangs but for the most part the IView 3500 works for OTA with limitations with the EPG, and clunky remote. I have recorded about 20 plus shows and viewed them all.

I would give it a 2 star rating. It has potential to be 4 star even with the hardware limitations. Just fix the software (firmware) issues.
post #884 of 3152
I have to agree with LenL. It does work. As long as I record off the EPG, or set up manual timers, I can record reliably off the majority of my stations. It isn't perfect by any means, but it does "work", and I'm planning on using it to record the majority of my HD recording this Fall. I just can't record off KWGN or KXRM, or use the Daily or Weekly functions. But, it was $38.97, and it's still hard to find a CECB for that price. HD tuner with HDMI and component outputs that records for the same price or less than a SD tuner?
post #885 of 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

HD tuner with HDMI and component outputs that records for the same price or less than a SD tuner?
Yes, it's a great value, but you're comparing apples to oranges.
That link is to an audio receiver with CD & media player. The "SD" is for Secure Digital card.

Then there is no such device as a "SD tuner".
Standard Definition TV can be either analog or digital TV.
So referring to analog TV as SDTV is ambiguous if not incorrect.
Also a digital TV tuner cannot exclusively tune just standard def channels and not also receive HD channels. The resolution of the channel's video is encoded in the MPEG stream, and that is simply treated a digital data by the digital tuner.

Regards
post #886 of 3152
I suppose this illustrates how we can never assume that one person's DVR priorities will line up with those of others. To me, a DVR without a functional weekly timer option is a 0* unit. Recurring timers are my "Season Pass" equivalent, and I'm not going to rewrite my schedule on a weekly basis. When a DVR's recording options are even less sophisticated and reliable than those of a VCR, there's something wrong, IMO.
post #887 of 3152
I have a really bad feeling the 3500 is straight out of an application note. I also think there's a good chance there may be competitors that may be much more interested and capable of providing product support than is iView.

I am far more impressed with the input of this forum's members than I am with the performance of iView.
post #888 of 3152
Glad to hear the Homeworx unit has an update. I'm still waiting confirmation that the schedule timers have been fixed. If they are, then the iview can be fixed, too.

That doesn't mean it will be fixed, just that it can be fixed.
post #889 of 3152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Just wondering. When was the last time you corresponded with Robert Chui ?
About two weeks back you made a comment about how you felt that another firmware update was "looming" . Which leads me to think that Robert had implied something was about to come forth.
He did imply there was another update. It may of been a non-starter just as V5 was.
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Quote:
then I suspect that these companies (iView, HomeWorx, etc,) are acting independently.
If you have read those posts on where these come from, it is obvious that these company names are just vendors of someones else's wares made for them. It should also be apparent, either the OEM is doing the firmware or has a 3rd party writing it for all the different versions. These all use the same system processor which makes all of these basically the same no matter how they are configured.
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Quote:
On the MediaSonic forum for their STB, they have an administrator that seems to either work for HomeWork or is closely working with them.
That deserves a few brownie points that sets it apart from the others including iView.
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Quote:
The main problems with this box are unrelated to culture. You don't need to live in the United States to know that there are seven days in a week or that using the EPG shouldn't cause the unit to freeze.
The main issues are probably not directly related to culture, but testing something in a country that has no suitable source of program material in the format used here does relate to their culture. They do not want outsiders working with their products. How can they test a EPG with no suitable stations?
post #890 of 3152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I am far more impressed with the input of this forum's members than I am with the performance of iView.
The problem is overseas, not here.
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Quote:
There a lots of very knowledgeable and talented people here (willing to help for free) on these forums and iView is letting it all go to waste.
This isn't a whole lot different than what happened with ePVision, offers were made but were ignored.

I'm more inclined to believe Mstar is controlling the firmware writing and no outsiders are allowed access. It is their chip. wink.gif
post #891 of 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

This isn't a whole lot different than what happened with ePVision, offers were made but were ignored.
I took a look at some of the ePVision posts. As both a FW/SW developer and an end-user, I can imagine how both sides got offended.
Your lists of "firmware updates needed" is usually not what developers want to see.

If you think that there is a bug, then the symptoms of the problem and how to recreate the problem are what should be reported.
Avoid negative descriptions that state that "it doesn't do X" or "X didn't happen". Rather that state what did not happen (which is actually an infinite list), try to describe what did occur.
E.G. instead of the "program didn't get recorded", a better description would be "the unit was up but idle during the entire recording period and no program file was found on the disk."

Statements of what needs to be changed or how to change something are usually not appreciated.
E.G."Firmware update needed for the pause feature" or "The time shift feature needs a firmware update: There should be an option in the menu..."
(BTW Your repetitive use of phrases like "firmware update needed" and "needs a firmware update" is nauseating IMO.)
The key is to describe the actual problem or difficulty encountered. If you cannot accomplish a certain task, be sure to describe why you think it is necessary to perform that action.
Your solution to the problem may not be the proper or ideal solution. (I've seen requests for "Add this feature" and immediately thought it made no sense. When I finally did find out the "reason", the correct and better solution was something different from the original request.)
If you have a possible or preferred solution to a problem, then offer it as a possible solution only after the problem has clearly been described.

Now step back, and evaluate how you feel after receiving this criticism.
The typical programmer already has a low opinion of end-users, so instead of criticizing their work by writing the equivalent of "You need to do this!" , the problem reports need to be written up as descriptions of problems and not a To-Do list.

The culture clash is not between Asian versus American. It's programmer versus end-user.

Regards
Edited by blue_z - 7/17/13 at 2:46am
post #892 of 3152
BLUE-Z,

I spent 30 plus years in software development and management working with end users etc.

While you do make good points:

1. More than likely the firmware programmers never see this forum. Not even aware of it or even care.
2. The issues documented on this forum were for the owners to take, sort through, and translate for the developers and bring to them what they are willing to pay to have done. I'm sure there is a process that is followed.
3. Professional developers are pretty much expecting to get the issues as the end user sees them and they then look at the issue from a programmer's perspective. In many cases the programmer's don't even interact with the end user. There is someone else. A person or persons who take the end user issues and format them into something the programmers can work with. Putting them in their own language, priority and cost to fix and controlling the change process and scheduling.
4. Finally in the case of the IView, the firmware programmers may not even be getting the fixes in English. Who knows? Who knows if the translation from English to Chines or whatever is perfect?

They also have the option of speaking directly to a few lead people like VB to get more info and clarification.

No the problem is not how the issues are presented on this forum. The problem goes back to people selling a device with issues and have at their disposal people who are will to help them for free to identify and test fixes (test firmware).......and they don't take advantage of the help being offered.
post #893 of 3152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
The typical programmer already has a low opinion of end-users,
Why?? Sounds as an elitist mentality. I doubt many, if any here really care what they think when they are clueless. What happened to "the customer comes first"? You have no chance to have a direct conversation with them, instead having to go through at least one other company, if not two. Now, it would be different if they would come forward, especially after many here have come forward to offer assistance with this and more especially the VRX from ePVision.
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Quote:
The culture clash is not between Asian versus American. It's programmer versus end-user.
But, if there were no "end users", you wouldn't have a sellable product. The number of severe issues that this has had and still does, shouldn't require hand holding to get solutions. They had little clue about this. I have stated more than once, this was there first DVR (of sorts) and to understand there is a lack of experience, but the "culture clash" severely increases the problem.

I hope you realize, whomever the programmers are, they probably have not read any of this and by the outside chance they have, they probably have ignored it. It's the experienced end user that has the knowledge of what is lacking. No one is telling them how to do their job, there should be little reason to be offended. No one here ever suggested programming is a easy job.

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Edited by videobruce - 7/17/13 at 6:53am
post #894 of 3152
I wrote....
Quote:
then I suspect that these companies (iView, HomeWorx, etc,) are acting independently.
videobruce Replied.....
Quote:
If you have read those posts on where these come from, it is obvious that these company names are just vendors of someones else's wares made for them. It should also be apparent, either the OEM is doing the firmware or has a 3rd party writing it for all the different versions. These all use the same system processor which makes all of these basically the same no matter how they are configured.

I am well aware of this fact. I first brought this to light a month ago in Post #507 Page 17
What was not known then was the information that blue_z had regarding the MStar processor. From the info I submitted we learned the name of the manufacture that supplies the complete units to the different venders (iView, HomeWorx, etcc) What is still not know is who is actually responsible for debugging the firmware. It it were MStar then I'd thin that the firmware upgrades would be available to all the companies that offer this product. If each company like HomeWork acts independently on changes then perhaps they have a SDK (Software Development Kit) provided by MStar.

I wrote....
Quote:
Quote:
Just wondering. When was the last time you corresponded with Robert Chui ?
About two weeks back you made a comment about how you felt that another firmware update was "looming" . Which leads me to think that Robert had implied something was about to come forth.

videobruce Replied.....
Quote:
He did imply there was another update. It may of been a non-starter just as V5 was.

So, If I understand you correctly you have not corresponded with them recently.
In asking this of you I think it reflects the desires of most of use here on this thread.
Since you have established a rapport with Mr. Chui and have had personal email and telephonic correspondence with him would you please make an inquiry as to the current status of this product and too any subsequent firmware releases?

We do not know if Mr. Chui or any one from iView, MStar or the SHENZHEN ZHAONENG ELECTRONIC CO. is monitoring this thread.
As far as we know, all that goes on here is strictly between ourselves and serves no purpose what-so-ever.

In all fairness we don't know who is actually working on any of the firmware up-dates. What I find interesting is that the HomeWorx box shipped with something like V3. The just released firmware, was version 10. We are at version 7 with the 3500. With HomeWorx someone has gone from v3 to the now v10. From what we know, V10 has addressed some if the main issues we have sited.
In other words they (HomeWorx) had versions 4 through 9 that went through some testing, somewhere, by someone. If only one entity is doing the firmware changes then why haven't we seen any of the version from v7 thru v10 ? We seem to have been provided beta versions in the past. Either iView has shelved the further development of the STB3500 or they have not, (for what ever reasons), been provided any up-dates.

It would be nice to know where we are with this product.
We keep monitoring and posting to this thread but, to what ends?
Is there any light at the end of this tunnel?
We are all holding our breath here and now, starting to turn........ Blue

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post #895 of 3152
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Since you have established a rapport with Mr. Chui and have had personal email and telephonic correspondence with him would you please make an inquiry as to the current status of this product and too any subsequent firmware releases?
Your timing for the question is scary.

Good news and bad news;

I just received a call from Robert Chui and was informed the following;

1. The "finalized firmware" is out and will be posted on their web site. I will also receive a copy. It addressed the QAM recording issue and added three languages for Canada & Brazil. There will be no solution for the clock, no manual setting. Also, no solution for the "Cxxx" readout on the display. One other fix, you can not change channels while recording. We will have to discover what else was changed.

2. For the bad news. Mr. Chui will be leaving iView. Unknown who will take his place. That is all I can say here. We had a pleasurable conversation and I wished him well in his future endeavors. For one, I'm not a happy camper and just plain upset from the development.
post #896 of 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Why?? Sounds as an elitist mentality. I doubt many, if any here really care what they think when they are clueless. What happened to "the customer comes first"? You have no chance to have a direct conversation with them, instead having to go through at least one other company, if not two. Now, it would be different if they would come forward, especially after many here have come forward to offer assistance with this and more especially the VRX from ePVision.
.
But, if there were no "end users", you wouldn't have a sellable product. The number of severe issues that this has had and still does, shouldn't require hand holding to get solutions. They had little clue about this. I have stated more than once, this was there first DVR (of sorts) and to understand there is a lack of experience, but the "culture clash" severely increases the problem.

I hope you realize, whomever the programmers are, they probably have not read any of this and by the outside chance they have, they probably have ignored it. It's the experienced end user that has the knowledge of what is lacking. No one is telling them how to do their job, there should be little reason to be offended. No one here ever suggested programming is a easy job.

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Sorry, but I'm not interested in discussing these points. It won't solve anything. I have 40 years experience as a professional software developer (the past 6 doing embedded Linux), and was only trying to relate some of the attitudes I have seem over the years at a defense contractor to private-sector startups.

From your perspective, you are doing iView et al. a service by providing feedback.
My point is, from the programmers' perspective, that can look like a list of directives or demands (especially from what I read of the ePVision lists).

You can deliver criticism harshly, or you can gently offer suggestions for improvement.
I suggested that these fixes you seek should be worded as problem reports, rather than directives that "firmware update is needed for..."
Search the web, and you will find similar ideas on how to write effective bug reports.

> It's the experienced end user that has the knowledge of what is lacking. No one is telling them how to do their job,

But that should be described as a problem with a rationale, rather than an "add this option" directive.


My point is, that if you do not change the style of your message, you increase the likelihood of getting poor results (again).

Regards
post #897 of 3152
VB,

Good News in one regard.
But, the news of loosing an established contact at iView is not.
I can only hope that whom ever replaces Robert takes in active interest in your thread here at AVS.

Regarding the changes.....

I'm not criticizing because I am more than content to wait to try out the latest changes myself.
Just commenting here because the short list of changes seems a little vague.
Quote:
added three languages for Canada & Brazil. There will be no solution for the clock, no manual setting. Also, no solution for the "Cxxx" readout on the display. One other fix, you can not change channels while recording. We will have to discover what else was changed.
languages for Canada & Brazil ? French English and Spanish
solution for the clock ? What clock issue since there are many clock related
the "Cxxx" readout ? Not a big deal. I never suspected to see that one in a FW change
can not change channels while recording ? I was happy with the warning we got when we tried to change channels[. Hope we did not loose the ability to change from one sub-channel to another while recording.

i would think that if this FW release does not make the changes that HomeWorx saw, it could very well mean that each company works independently on changes.
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post #898 of 3152
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

1. The "finalized firmware" is out and will be posted on their web site.

The firmware is on their site now.

Firmware link
post #899 of 3152
blue-z Wrote....
Quote:
You can deliver criticism harshly, or you can gently offer suggestions for improvement.
I suggested that these fixes you seek should be worded as problem reports, rather than directives that "firmware update is needed for..."[

But that should be described as a problem with a rationale, rather than an "add this option" directive.

This is exactly my rational in creating a new and separate list to evaluate the changes in the latest Beta firmware released.
The original list (and not faulting VB) was a very long "Laundry List" of every little nit-picking problem. Everything form "that green LED is way to bright'' Or, The lay-out of the remote makes no sense" Or, "change the wording on one page from this to that". Sure at some point it would be nice to see some or all of the changes implemented, but let's see if we can get the major problems corrected first.
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post #900 of 3152
The new firmware went backward on one fix. The default when manually scheduling a timer recording is back to VIEW.

The version number after the upgrade has gone backward, it now says CL630133 130716 V2
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