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2013 LG LN5300 LED HDTV Review - Page 9

post #241 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by RG400SmartTowel View Post

I have a 42 inch version and have the VA panel. Do any of you guys think the IPS panel is superior to the VA? Is it worth the hassle to go back to and exchange to the IPS panel?

It all comes down to how much you like your "blacks" and "wide viewing angles". The VA will give you better blacks but not-so-great viewing angles. The IPS, on the hand, gives you wide viewing angles but the blacks aren't as good. I have the IPS version and it's a beauty to look at. See my desktop pic above.
post #242 of 417
Somebody Knows about the LG's dead pixel guarantee policy? i realized tha my tv has one frown.gif , my one year guarantee not ends yet
post #243 of 417
I picked up a 39" LN5300 a few weeks ago for my GF to play games on. Its currently set up right next to the PN60F5500 that I play on. Tonight we were playing Halo 4, and comparing the same images side by side, there are some flaws with the color that I just cant fix.


It seems like any changes to the color settings dont do anything at all.

First off, is blue looks purple. Same image on my screen, the blue in the Halo 4 menu, or that of Cortana is a light cyan like blue. On the LG, its a dark blue with a lot of purple tint.
Other issue is there isnt enough red in the color. Makes orange stuff seem pale, pink doesnt pop enough, etc...


Settings are currently,

Energy Saving off
Expert 1
Backlight 22
Contrast 95
Brightness 53
Sharpness 10 (both)
Color 60
Tint G5

Dynamic Contrast off
Color Gamut standard
Edge Enhancer off
Gamma 2.2

Color Temp medium
All color settings 0

Black level low


Most the settings were landed on using picture wizard. I have no issues black level, white, etc...


So I tried messing with all the color settings with temp on medium and tried again on warm 1. Nothing seems to fix anything. Only thing that I can change is make the colors duller, or more faded. Green is fine, and is extremely close to my Samsung. But blue and red are too far off.


Any ideas?
post #244 of 417
Go back and search this thread for Tralfamadore's settings. That should help you out.
post #245 of 417
Anyone having issues with this TV interfering with network connectivity with non LG blu ray players? I have a very strange issue. I have two Samsung blu ray players that simply does not stream either Netflix or local files via DNLA. Does not matter if I use wireless or wired connection, both players will play the content for a few mins, then pause. If I connect the same blu ray players to my living room tv, they stream flawlessly. thinking it was something in my bedroom causing the interference; I took my 39LN5300 to the living room and connected the blu ray players to it. same issue as in bedroom. At this point the only common thing is the television. I even went so far as to buy a new router and blu ray player thinking those may have been the issue. Even the new player has issues connected to the LG TV. Anyone encountering this or have any ideas why this would occur?
post #246 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTM Audi View Post

I picked up a 39" LN5300 a few weeks ago for my GF to play games on. Its currently set up right next to the PN60F5500 that I play on. Tonight we were playing Halo 4, and comparing the same images side by side, there are some flaws with the color that I just cant fix.


First off, is blue looks purple. Same image on my screen, the blue in the Halo 4 menu, or that of Cortana is a light cyan like blue. On the LG, its a dark blue with a lot of purple tint.
Other issue is there isnt enough red in the color. Makes orange stuff seem pale, pink doesnt pop enough, etc...


Settings are currently...

Color 60
Tint G5
Color Gamut standard

...

...Only thing that I can change is make the colors duller, or more faded...

Any ideas?

There's the problem. Drop the color to 50 and change the tint back to 0. Use Wide color gamut. I'd stick with the warmer color temp settings. Then, use a setup disc or test image with NTSC color bars in conjunction with the blue filter / blue mode to arrive at the correct color and tint settings. "Duller" and "more faded" are likely more accurate and you've grown accustomed to cranked up color. I did that for a while myself, but there's some downsides to it and I moved away from it. Look up a color clipping test image at some point to see what I'm talking about.

I'd suggest doing this also for your PN60F5500 if you want your two displays to both approach some degree of accuracy and perhaps start to look semi similar. Though, expecting two different brands and two different display technologies to sit side by side and look identical won't ever work out. Even if you delved into true hardware calibration.

If none of that gives any satisfaction I'd almost say there might be some quality control issues with your LG and/or you're simply used to Samsung's plasmas. The easiest solution might be swapping the LG for a Samsung plasma that looks close to what you're familiar with . . .
post #247 of 417
^ Well he also needs to change the color temperature to Warm1 or 2 (I prefer 1 that boosts green and a bit of red since 2 boosts red too much to tackle for IRE calibration) and learn about the 2 point / IRE calibration if he has time. It can be done with certain test images (colored grayscale bars, set pattern to OUTER and look for luminance changes for each IRE point) without a colorimeter (your EYES), but it won't be perfect like having a colorimeter because you don't know the approximate temperature value in the end. Much better than default, though.
post #248 of 417

HELLO!. I am sorry if I am bumping a very old thread this is my first post. I got this T.V Barely a week ago and have been using it for my Xbox360. I plan to also use it for the Xboxone. 

I have not noticed any input lag which I really like. This T.V is a huge step up from my Tochiba 720 24 inch T.V.

 

I have the 42 inch model. 

 

Can anyone suggest a good calibration for gaming? If it is all ready in the thread just point me to it and I will get to work. I have done NO changes aside from switching it to game mode. 

 

Thank you very much! 

 

Also at the person who made the topic. I was standing in Wallmart when I read your review and it pushed me over the edge to get this T.V. THANK YOU!


Edited by ZeroJehuty - 10/8/13 at 9:45am
post #249 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroJehuty View Post


Can anyone suggest a good calibration for gaming? If it is all ready in the thread just point me to it and I will get to work. I have done NO changes aside from switching it to game mode. 


I'd recommend reading over and using this if at all possible. Post back if you have any trouble with it.
post #250 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by John4721 View Post


I'd recommend reading over and using this if at all possible. Post back if you have any trouble with it.

 

Sadly I can not burn discs. And info on the internet aside from here is slim. But thank you for responding. I am trying a few calibrations i have seen in this thread. But it is slow going. Just ordered a pizza 

post #251 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroJehuty View Post

Sadly I can not burn discs. And info on the internet aside from here is slim. But thank you for responding. I am trying a few calibrations i have seen in this thread. But it is slow going. Just ordered a pizza 

Lagom.nl/lcd-test is a good site if you are using this TV as a monitor. For sharpness and grayscale calibration, you will need seperate test images for those as that site does not have very good images for those tests. Don't use your graphics card's color enhancements either if you have a TV with this much customization.

Sharpness 1920x1080 <- this is the BEST sharpness test image i could find.

For Grayscale calibration
: If you find a test image that has colored grayscale gradients (not bars/notches like on that Lagom test site), you can pick out which IRE point has unbalanced saturation for each color channel and can balance them out to make the gradients look smooth from pure white to true black.

This is an example image of what I mean (won't be as accurate as using a colorimeter, but A LOT better than factory defaults):


If you see any lighter or darker notches in the smooth gradient, find that IRE point and apply more or less (red in this case) to that point. Doing just red, green, and blue will calibrate cyan, yellow, and magenta since they are a mix of red, green, or blue.
Edited by MDA400 - 10/9/13 at 7:13am
post #252 of 417

I will give these a try. I am gonna use the T.V mostly for gaming so hopefully it will look nice. Thanks for the help! Any more advice will be welcomed! 

post #253 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tralfamadore View Post

Sorry for the delayed post regarding my calibration results. I have been messing with this display and its settings extensively, and I have some interesting results.

First of all, there is a serious issue I encountered regarding the black level (0 IRE) of this set changing over time. When I initially measured the contrast and black levels of this set two weeks ago, I was getting a fairly average black level of .015. Then about a week ago, I noticed the picture looked a little washed out. I measured the 0 IRE again and sure enough, the black level had risen to .035. Adjusting backlight to 0 made no difference either. My original contrast ratio was around 4500, and now it is around 1500. Quite a difference. I am still waiting to hear back from LG regarding this problem.

Another issue with this set is the unreliability of the CMS controls. Like most LGs, the 100% saturation points are fixed. Adjusting CMS only changed the lower saturation points. Unfortunately, moving any of the CMS settings more than +/-5 will introduce noticeable errors to different luminance/saturation points. At one point I had the 75/50/25 saturation points perfect, but when I ran a luminance sweep pattern they were all over the CIE color chart.

The red primary was VERY under saturated compared to every other primary/secondary which were slightly over saturated, and red was also tinted towards pink. I also found blue to lean very far towards purple, especially at mid saturation levels. Another issue is the Y values of the colors not staying consistent with saturation levels. For example, blue at 100% saturation is -10% from targeted Y value, and 75% saturation is +10% from the targeted value. Using patterns with different luminance levels had the same result. I spent many hours fiddling with the CMS, and all I got was a huge headache and less than stellar results. I finally settled for the middle ground, and only changed the tint controls for each color. Except for red, which I had to add saturation to in order to prevent the pale reds.

What did work very well is the 20 point grayscale controls, which let me get a near perfect grayscale and gamma using the 2.2 gamma setting. The 2 point grayscale controls on the other hand didn't work as they should. The high point control worked as expected, but the low point control did absolutely nothing. I measured the Warm 1 default temperature as a very cool 1100k. Warm 2 was much closer to the standard at 6700k. Default gamma for the 2.2 setting is actually 2.0.

For those interested, here are the settings I ended up with on the 39LN5300

Backlight: 40 (I calibrated for a brighter screen(50 FTL) than the standard(30-40). Reducing backlight by 10-15 will bring you closer to 40 FTL)
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 50
H/V sharpness: 10/10 (defaults were perfect for 1080p sources, may need to change depending on different source)
Color: 50
Tint: 0

Expert Controls-
Color Gamut: Wide
Gamma: 2.2
Color temperature: Warm 2
2 point high point: 5R, 0G, -3B

CMS controls-
Red: 4, -4, 0
Green: 0, -5, 0
Blue: -1, 5, 0
Cyan: default
Magenta: 0, -4, 0
Yellow: 0, 5, 0

20 point IRE settings:
5: 2, 0, -9
10: 3, 0, -11
15: -3, -5, 2
20: -21, -23, -13
25: -19, -20, -16
30: -21, -23, -24
35: -24, -24, -27
40: -24, -26, -26
45: -26, -26, -26
50: -23, -25, -21
55: -24, -26, -22
60: -24, -25, -24
65: -21, -26, -23
70: -20, -23, -19
75: -15, -14, -12
80: -15, -11, -3
85: -15, -11, -3
90: -14, -8, 1
95: -10, -5, 6
100: -10, 0, 1

Calibration was done with a i1 pro rev D, and double checked with a Colormunki Photo. Both are spectrometers. These settings resulted in a perfect color temperature across the grayscale, consistent 2.22 gamma, and Delta E errors all below 2. I will provide more details regarding the results I achieved as well the .chc files for ColorHCFR tomorrow.

Ultimately, I am pretty disappointed with the color accuracy. The black level doubling is also troubling and confusing. I have only heard of that happening to Panasonic plasmas, and that was usually after a thousand hours. The grayscale balance turned out great, though.

 

This worked amazing for games. It looks a lot less washed out then the game setting it came with. If anyone is interested I can post some pics. 

post #254 of 417
Forgot to mention. Relabel your HDMI input to PC if you are gaming with an HDMI cable or using an HDMI equipped PC.
post #255 of 417

Anyone else have this version of the T.V? The settings i used above seem really nice but it did not mention a few other options. Anyone? 

post #256 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroJehuty View Post

Anyone else have this version of the T.V? The settings i used above seem really nice but it did not mention a few other options. Anyone? 

What else is there besides black level (use AUTO)?

Don't use any enhancements. They are detrimental to input delay and artificially enhance the picture way outside of what the panel and content is designed for (not that it will damage your set. Just damages your calibration.)
post #257 of 417
What are the best settings for this tv to use as a pc monitor? I'd like to get sharp fonts. Right now they look blurry.

What are you pc guys using for settings?

Thanks! smile.gif

Edit: Also should I be using just scan or set the hdmi label to pc? When I set the hdmi label to pc I can't use just scan anymore. It's greyed out.

Thanks.
Edited by jarablue - 10/10/13 at 6:26pm
post #258 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDA400 View Post


What else is there besides black level (use AUTO)?

Don't use any enhancements. They are detrimental to input delay and artificially enhance the picture way outside of what the panel and content is designed for (not that it will damage your set. Just damages your calibration.)

I used what I quoted above. No imput lag. Was owning face this morning in the BF4 beta. 

post #259 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroJehuty View Post

I used what I quoted above. No imput lag. Was owning face this morning in the BF4 beta.

Well good, but again he doesn't use enhancements. So if you still have Mpeg Noise Filter, Dynamic Contrast, or Edge Enhancer on and aren't using the "PC" HDMI input label, then there is room for improvement (and if you don't use RGB color space with High Black Level there will be delay for that as well).
Edited by MDA400 - 10/11/13 at 6:44am
post #260 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDA400 View Post


Well good, but again he doesn't use enhancements. So if you still have Mpeg Noise Filter, Dynamic Contrast, or Edge Enhancer on and aren't using the "PC" HDMI input label, then there is room for improvement (and if you don't use RGB color space with High Black Level there will be delay for that as well).

Should I turn those things on? 

 

And what is the PC HDMI input label? 

post #261 of 417

Started up GTA5 and everything looked a little brownish but then went to BF4 beta and everything looked fine. Real strange. 

post #262 of 417
I'm saying DON'T turn those features on.

For the HDMI input label, If you go to your Input menu and press the blue button on your TV remote, select the "PC" label for your HDMI 1 or 2 input.

This is essentially the "game mode" for an LG TV. What it does is converts the TV from processing YCbCr colorspace, to RGB colorspace and enables 4:4:4 full chroma (all colors will have equal sharpness). YCbCr still works using the PC label, but green gets oversaturated and red gets undersaturated from incorrect color processing. Its a sign if you are using the right colorspace or not.

It grey's out all of the advanced options except for Black Level (again should be set to HIGH for RGB). Just make sure under the Expert Control (using Expert picture mode), you disable Edge Enhancer as I have no idea why that is still a switchable feature in PC mode.

ta da. Much lower Input delay. So if you haven't done this already and have been use to the lag before, then you will be really precise after this trick.

As for brownish looks, I tried Tralfamadore's settings on my own 32" LN5300 and on EVERY TV I have calibrated, the warmest color temp is never the best starting point for calibrating grayscale as it looks too yellowish. I recommend using Warm1 or Medium as a starting point for TV's (medium if you don't have a Warm 1 setting) and doing the gradient trick above. A colorimeter is an eye of its own so if lighting conditions aren't perfect and the screen has brightness non-uniformity, then Tralfamadore's settings could actually be way off the estimated calibration.

Really, calibration can be done with simple techniques and doesn't have to be as complex as installing ICC color software on a computer and buying a somewhat pricey colorimeter. Your eyes will be the deciding factor in the end, so why not use them with the test images instead?
Edited by MDA400 - 10/11/13 at 8:22am
post #263 of 417
I am using a dvi to hdmi cable. If I change the hdmi input to PC it greys out 'just scan' and only allows 16x9 and another option.

Is it possible to change the input to PC and still use just scan? What are the benefits between the two?

Edit: When I set my black level to high, it looks like the image is washed out. But when setting it to low, the blacks are deeper and the whites are whiter. Should I keep my black level on high or low?
Edited by jarablue - 10/12/13 at 6:06am
post #264 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarablue View Post

I am using a dvi to hdmi cable. If I change the hdmi input to PC it greys out 'just scan' and only allows 16x9 and another option.

Is it possible to change the input to PC and still use just scan? What are the benefits between the two?

Edit: When I set my black level to high, it looks like the image is washed out. But when setting it to low, the blacks are deeper and the whites are whiter. Should I keep my black level on high or low?

That PC input label will change your aspect ratio choices to 4:3 or 16:9 because you could think of it as an exclusive "Just Scan" mode.

In PC mode, every resolution sent to your display has to be 60hz or it will deactivate PC mode, drops back to normal mode and will process YCbCr instead of RGB (the compressed form of RGB).

PC mode provides full chroma and without full chromacity, since there are 3 subpixels to each main pixel on your TV (Red Green Blue) some of those subpixels are disabled to provide a compressed form of chroma called "chroma subsampling" (GREATLY reduces file size for media types like Blu-ray and terrestrial broadcast).

All color text or objects take a hit with chroma subsampling and you will notice in Red or Magenta text first at native resolution (harder to tell when playing Xbox 360 or PS3 at 720p, but since those consoles can output full chroma you will hinder the image quality).

So in summary:

PC mode - RGB, full chroma, no overscan (computer, HDMI game console, any RGB produced material)

Normal/non-PC mode - YCbCr, chroma subsampling, overscan (unless you pick Just Scan) (Blu-ray, Cable/satellite broadcast, streaming devices that provide YCbCr content)



As for Black Level, If your picture is washed out in High black level, you are not using RGB content and instead using YCbCr meaning your TV has to provide the 0-15 and 236-255 shades of contrast to match your TV's native contrast range. This would be the LOW setting on your TV. HIGH is for RGB capable devices that provide the full 0-255 range of contrast on their own (uncompressed/less delay). Some devices can clip full range RGB to output as 16-235 limited range RGB.

YCbCr - Black Level LOW (source device is set to Standard/Limited reference levels)

RGB - Black Level HIGH (source device is set to Full/Expanded reference levels)
Edited by MDA400 - 10/14/13 at 7:15am
post #265 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDA400 View Post


That PC input label will change your aspect ratio choices to 4:3 or 16:9 because you could think of it as an exclusive "Just Scan" mode.

In PC mode, every resolution sent to your display has to be 60hz or it will deactivate PC mode, drops back to normal mode and will process YCbCr instead of RGB (the compressed form of RGB).

PC mode provides full chroma and without full chromacity, since there are 3 subpixels to each main pixel on your TV (Red Green Blue) some of those subpixels are disabled to provide a compressed form of chroma called "chroma subsampling" (GREATLY reduces file size for media types like Blu-ray and terrestrial broadcast).

All color text or objects take a hit with chroma subsampling and you will notice in Red or Magenta text first at native resolution (harder to tell when playing Xbox 360 or PS3 at 720p, but since those consoles can output full chroma you will hinder the image quality).

So in summary:

PC mode - RGB, full chroma, no overscan (computer, HDMI game console, any RGB produced material)

Normal/non-PC mode - YCbCr, chroma subsampling, overscan (unless you pick Just Scan) (Blu-ray, Cable/satellite broadcast, streaming devices that provide YCbCr content)



As for Black Level, If your picture is washed out in High black level, you are not using RGB content and instead using YCbCr meaning your TV has to provide the 0-15 and 236-255 shades of contrast to match your TV's native contrast range. This would be the LOW setting on your TV. HIGH is for RGB capable devices that provide the full 0-255 range of contrast on their own (uncompressed/less delay). Some devices can clip full range RGB to output as 16-235 limited range RGB.

YCbCr - Black Level LOW (source device is set to Standard/Limited reference levels)

RGB - Black Level HIGH (source device is set to Full/Expanded reference levels)

I set it to PC and it made everything real real dark. 

post #266 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroJehuty View Post

I set it to PC and it made everything real real dark. 

What was your Black Level set to while using PC?

If you set it to LOW while using RGB, you will overcontrast true black and pure white.

If you set it to HIGH while using YCbCr, you will wash out true black and pure white.
post #267 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDA400 View Post


What was your Black Level set to while using PC?

If you set it to LOW while using RGB, you will overcontrast true black and pure white.

If you set it to HIGH while using YCbCr, you will wash out true black and pure white.

Not sure. But I flipped the input to game and it looks real nice now. 

post #268 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroJehuty View Post

Not sure. But I flipped the input to game and it looks real nice now. 

But I'm saying that's not what you want if you're gaming or using a PC over HDMI.

Game consoles and PC's render primarily in the uncompressed RGB colorspace.

On your TV, if you choose anything other than "PC" for an HDMI input label, you will be set up to process a YCbCr signal which is wrong.

Use a Blu-ray player set to YCbCr in its menu and turn your LG's Black Level in Picture Options to LOW. You'll see the contrast will expand to the correct 0-255 range.

If you use the PC input label and a PS3 or Xbox 360 set to Expanded/Full RGB, the LOW Black Level setting would be overcontrasting your image since RGB is again uncompressed (meaning it already has a 0-255 full range to it). This is why you use HIGH Black Level and basically tells the TV to not touch the contrast range.

All of this will improve picture quality for the specific source.

......................................................................................................................................................................


P.S. I read back over the last posts and see your using a DVI to HDMI cable. If you have an Nvidia card, you need this tool since a DVI to HDMI cable will still trigger HDMI's ability to send YCbCr from the card and produce limited range: NV_RGBFullRangeToggle
You only have to run it once and restart.

If you are using an AMD video card, you can find the correct contrast range setting in the catalyst control center under Pixel Format (RGB 4:4:4 PC Standard). The others are for if you are watching video.
Edited by MDA400 - 10/18/13 at 8:51am
post #269 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDA400 View Post


But I'm saying that's not what you want if you're gaming or using a PC over HDMI.

Game consoles and PC's render primarily in the uncompressed RGB colorspace.

On your TV, if you choose anything other than "PC" for an HDMI input label, you will be set up to process a YCbCr signal which is wrong.

Use a Blu-ray player set to YCbCr in its menu and turn your LG's Black Level in Picture Options to LOW. You'll see the contrast will expand to the correct 0-255 range.

If you use the PC input label and a PS3 or Xbox 360 set to Expanded/Full RGB, the LOW Black Level setting would be overcontrasting your image since RGB is again uncompressed (meaning it already has a 0-255 full range to it). This is why you use HIGH Black Level and basically tells the TV to not touch the contrast range.

All of this will improve picture quality for the specific source.

......................................................................................................................................................................


P.S. I read back over the last posts and see your using a DVI to HDMI cable. If you have an Nvidia card, you need this tool since a DVI to HDMI cable will still trigger HDMI's ability to send YCbCr from the card and produce limited range: NV_RGBFullRangeToggle
You only have to run it once and restart.

If you are using an AMD video card, you can find the correct contrast range setting in the catalyst control center under Pixel Format (RGB 4:4:4 PC Standard). The others are for if you are watching video.

I am using it for my 360 and later on Xboxone. I switched it to PC and it reset all my "expert" setting I got from earlier in this thread. 

post #270 of 417
Anyone have some examples of the motion blur on this TV?

Like a test like this - http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting

PixPerAn is also similar and a really good tool..

Camera pics with an SLR or something?
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