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Epson 5020 vs Sony VPL-HW50ES - Page 2

post #31 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post

Thanks for getting the exact percentage. I guess my wife is correct when she says I can be a little dramatic when talking. wink.gif

I just like people to have some information backing up the claims. Now if you are in an ambient light situation and require a ton of lumens and you aren't as concerned about super accurate colors the Epson is very bright in Dynamic mode.
post #32 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpin748 View Post

As far as know a LED TV is just a marketing ploy since its till a LCD but with LED backlighting. Why would a different backlight not effect you?
...

Wow! That is definitely not my experience.

Walking into any store, I can tell an LCD vs an LED TV within seconds. They look VERY different to me.. I must have seen literally hundreds of TVs shopping around. the LCDs always bother me. LEDs never do and look great (as do plasmas).

If this is only because of the backlighting, then so be it. But for me, there is a profound difference.

Regardless, the Epson is just hard for me to watch motion on...Maybe its like RBE and only a few people can see it, and most don't. dunno. All I know is I won an Epson in a contest (or gotten as a gift) I would sell it without opening the box.

Not that its a bad machine by any stretch of the imagination.. It just irritates me physically for some reason.

And no - I have no beef with Epson as a brand smile.gif
post #33 of 99
Thread Starter 
Again thanks for the great discussion. The more I read both here and in reviews, the more I am leaning to the Sony. Probably the deciding factor for me, after PQ, is Epson's penchant for dust blobs. If you have experienced that like I have, it makes you want to seek out a unit without the problem. From what I can tell, the Sony projectors do not appear to be prone to that very annoying tendency, and there are enough reports to suggest that the Epsons do. Also, it does not seem to be confined to the 8350 model. So in spite of a great replacement program I will be probably leave the Epson fold.
post #34 of 99
If Epson changed their design to a sealed one, I think that would make all the difference. I had dust blobs and will not consider another Epson until this issue is addressed.
post #35 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Please provide facts if you are going to state someone is inaccurate...

I will do it for you...Please see below, while not exactly twice the output calibrated the Sony is 32% brighter if an absolute accurate image is desired.

Art via Projector Reviews...

Epson - Calibrated

Lumens: 678

Sony - Calibrated

Lumens 992

Nope, I won't. The information I referred to is readily available if some one wants to check it out as you've shown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

I just like people to have some information backing up the claims.

Give me a break. I question a statement that is clearly exaggerated and I'm the guy you call out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Benkin View Post

Wow! That is definitely not my experience.

Walking into any store, I can tell an LCD vs an LED TV within seconds. They look VERY different to me.. I must have seen literally hundreds of TVs shopping around. the LCDs always bother me. LEDs never do and look great (as do plasmas).

If this is only because of the backlighting, then so be it. But for me, there is a profound difference.

Regardless, the Epson is just hard for me to watch motion on...Maybe its like RBE and only a few people can see it, and most don't. dunno. All I know is I won an Epson in a contest (or gotten as a gift) I would sell it without opening the box.

Not that its a bad machine by any stretch of the imagination.. It just irritates me physically for some reason.

And no - I have no beef with Epson as a brand smile.gif

It wasn't an attack, I was just wondering if I was missing something. A lot of this stuff is subjective so you really need to go with what makes you happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioblu View Post

Again thanks for the great discussion. The more I read both here and in reviews, the more I am leaning to the Sony. Probably the deciding factor for me, after PQ, is Epson's penchant for dust blobs. If you have experienced that like I have, it makes you want to seek out a unit without the problem. From what I can tell, the Sony projectors do not appear to be prone to that very annoying tendency, and there are enough reports to suggest that the Epsons do. Also, it does not seem to be confined to the 8350 model. So in spite of a great replacement program I will be probably leave the Epson fold.

Crap. Now you've got me worried. I've got to stop reading threads on stuff I own.
Edited by kingpin748 - 4/12/13 at 6:28pm
post #36 of 99
OP,

Now that you'v decoded on the Sony, you should check out zombie10k's thread on his mini-shootout. You should see a JVC for yourself before buying the Sony, both LCoS technology.

No matter which one you pick, they're both winners.
post #37 of 99
I read through this thread to see what comparisons were being made between the Epson 6020UB Sony HW50ES. After reading Projector Review.com's side by side comparison http://www.projectorreviews.com/1080p-projector/projector_awards_2013.php I was surprised to see that some members spoke about the Epson like it was junk compared to the Sony. Projector Review was very in depth and the two PJ's ended up sharing top honors for the 2,000.00 to 3,500.00 price range. Their summary ended up saying that the Sony edged out the Epson in overall picture quality but gave the two a tie score based of the Epson being a better value. In my experience, Sony's customer service is horrible while Epson has top notch service after the sale. That and the fact that both are rated so closely, pushed me toward the Epson initially.

I think many who posted here should read the reviews because there are some drastic reality shifts between what I've read here and what was on that site as well as a few other reviews I read. In fact, some of the negatives attributed to the Epson in this forum were actually attributed to the Sony in the reviews I read. The consensus from the reviews I've read is that the two PJ's are VERY close in overall picture quality and black levels with an ever so slight advantage going to the Sony. Each one does some things better than the other but at about the same price point, the 6020 (identical to the less pricy 5020 but comes with extras) is the better value because it includes 2 pair of 3D glasses, a ceiling mount, a 3rd year of overnight warranty coverage and a spare bulb.

For many it comes down to value as both PJ's are very, very good performers. The street price on the 5020 is about 600.00 less than the 6020 so you pay for the extras but it still sells for less than the Sony. For many, which one they choose depends on whether you're motivated by the better value and warranty of the Epson or the very slight performance advantage of the Sony. I was almost certain that the 6020 would be my choice but when I read that several forum members had dust problems with the Epson PJ's it made me think twice. It's obviously a long standing issue and that is a big minus to me.

Just to throw a wrench in the works, I was recently offered a JVC DLA-X70R new in the factory sealed box for 3500.00. It doesn't have the brightness of the Epson or the Sony but has better blacks and more realistic color as well as a sharper image, motorized lens, E-shift simulated 4K and a host of other high end features to drool over. Simply put, it's better than the Sony or Epson by a good margin in 2D. It lists for a lot more so it should be. Unfortunately, the JVC doesn't have the usable lumens of either the Sony or Epson in 3D. In fact, it's only reported weakness is that it isn't quite bright enough to be more than just watchable in 3D. I don't know if that will be an issue for me because I don't have a 3D set now and have no idea whether I'll find 3D something I'll use often enough to care about. It may not be as big an issue for me as the reviewer because it will go in my dedicated cave. Because brightness is a little lacking it also may not be as good for sports unless you watch with all the lights off like you would a movie. That is a big minus IMO. The bottom line here is that this JVC is one of the best PJ's under 10,000.00 for pure 2D movie viewing and will blow the Sony and Epson away in that regard but even at the killer price I was offered, the lack of brightness for sports and 3D make this a tough choice. Decisions, decisions............
post #38 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrunz View Post

I read through this thread to see what comparisons were being made between the Epson 6020UB Sony HW50ES. After reading Projector Review.com's side by side comparison http://www.projectorreviews.com/1080p-projector/projector_awards_2013.php I was surprised to see that some members spoke about the Epson like it was junk compared to the Sony. Projector Review was very in depth and the two PJ's ended up sharing top honors for the 2,000.00 to 3,500.00 price range. Their summary ended up saying that the Sony edged out the Epson in overall picture quality but gave the two a tie score based of the Epson being a better value. In my experience, Sony's customer service is horrible while Epson has top notch service after the sale. That and the fact that both are rated so closely, pushed me toward the Epson initially.

I think many who posted here should read the reviews because there are some drastic reality shifts between what I've read here and what was on that site as well as a few other reviews I read. In fact, some of the negatives attributed to the Epson in this forum were actually attributed to the Sony in the reviews I read. The consensus from the reviews I've read is that the two PJ's are VERY close in overall picture quality and black levels with an ever so slight advantage going to the Sony. Each one does some things better than the other but at about the same price point, the 6020 (identical to the less pricy 5020 but comes with extras) is the better value because it includes 2 pair of 3D glasses, a ceiling mount, a 3rd year of overnight warranty coverage and a spare bulb.

For many it comes down to value as both PJ's are very, very good performers. The street price on the 5020 is about 600.00 less than the 6020 so you pay for the extras but it still sells for less than the Sony. For many, which one they choose depends on whether you're motivated by the better value and warranty of the Epson or the very slight performance advantage of the Sony. I was almost certain that the 6020 would be my choice but when I read that several forum members had dust problems with the Epson PJ's it made me think twice. It's obviously a long standing issue and that is a big minus to me.

Just to throw a wrench in the works, I was recently offered a JVC DLA-X70R new in the factory sealed box for 3500.00. It doesn't have the brightness of the Epson or the Sony but has better blacks and more realistic color as well as a sharper image, motorized lens, E-shift simulated 4K and a host of other high end features to drool over. Simply put, it's better than the Sony or Epson by a good margin in 2D. It lists for a lot more so it should be. Unfortunately, the JVC doesn't have the usable lumens of either the Sony or Epson in 3D. In fact, it's only reported weakness is that it isn't quite bright enough to be more than just watchable in 3D. I don't know if that will be an issue for me because I don't have a 3D set now and have no idea whether I'll find 3D something I'll use often enough to care about. It may not be as big an issue for me as the reviewer because it will go in my dedicated cave. Because brightness is a little lacking it also may not be as good for sports unless you watch with all the lights off like you would a movie. That is a big minus IMO. The bottom line here is that this JVC is one of the best PJ's under 10,000.00 for pure 2D movie viewing and will blow the Sony and Epson away in that regard but even at the killer price I was offered, the lack of brightness for sports and 3D make this a tough choice. Decisions, decisions............

Thanks for taking the time to write this. Very informative and helpful.
post #39 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrunz View Post

I read through this thread to see what comparisons were being made between the Epson 6020UB Sony HW50ES. After reading Projector Review.com's side by side comparison http://www.projectorreviews.com/1080p-projector/projector_awards_2013.php I was surprised to see that some members spoke about the Epson like it was junk compared to the Sony. Projector Review was very in depth and the two PJ's ended up sharing top honors for the 2,000.00 to 3,500.00 price range. Their summary ended up saying that the Sony edged out the Epson in overall picture quality but gave the two a tie score based of the Epson being a better value. In my experience, Sony's customer service is horrible while Epson has top notch service after the sale. That and the fact that both are rated so closely, pushed me toward the Epson initially.

I think many who posted here should read the reviews because there are some drastic reality shifts between what I've read here and what was on that site as well as a few other reviews I read. In fact, some of the negatives attributed to the Epson in this forum were actually attributed to the Sony in the reviews I read. The consensus from the reviews I've read is that the two PJ's are VERY close in overall picture quality and black levels with an ever so slight advantage going to the Sony. Each one does some things better than the other but at about the same price point, the 6020 (identical to the less pricy 5020 but comes with extras) is the better value because it includes 2 pair of 3D glasses, a ceiling mount, a 3rd year of overnight warranty coverage and a spare bulb.

For many it comes down to value as both PJ's are very, very good performers. The street price on the 5020 is about 600.00 less than the 6020 so you pay for the extras but it still sells for less than the Sony. For many, which one they choose depends on whether you're motivated by the better value and warranty of the Epson or the very slight performance advantage of the Sony. I was almost certain that the 6020 would be my choice but when I read that several forum members had dust problems with the Epson PJ's it made me think twice. It's obviously a long standing issue and that is a big minus to me.

Just to throw a wrench in the works, I was recently offered a JVC DLA-X70R new in the factory sealed box for 3500.00. It doesn't have the brightness of the Epson or the Sony but has better blacks and more realistic color as well as a sharper image, motorized lens, E-shift simulated 4K and a host of other high end features to drool over. Simply put, it's better than the Sony or Epson by a good margin in 2D. It lists for a lot more so it should be. Unfortunately, the JVC doesn't have the usable lumens of either the Sony or Epson in 3D. In fact, it's only reported weakness is that it isn't quite bright enough to be more than just watchable in 3D. I don't know if that will be an issue for me because I don't have a 3D set now and have no idea whether I'll find 3D something I'll use often enough to care about. It may not be as big an issue for me as the reviewer because it will go in my dedicated cave. Because brightness is a little lacking it also may not be as good for sports unless you watch with all the lights off like you would a movie. That is a big minus IMO. The bottom line here is that this JVC is one of the best PJ's under 10,000.00 for pure 2D movie viewing and will blow the Sony and Epson away in that regard but even at the killer price I was offered, the lack of brightness for sports and 3D make this a tough choice. Decisions, decisions............

All of these are good projectors. Some are better at certain things than others. Some value a quiet projector, some only consider brightness in best image mode. Just just have to pick what matters to you most. I have owned several projectors, LCD, DLP and LCOS. My preferred technology is LCOS. Now if advancements had continued with DLP (we are using same chips for last 6 years) I might prefer DLP.
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post #40 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtrunz View Post

I think many who posted here should read the reviews because there are some drastic reality shifts between what I've read here and what was on that site as well as a few other reviews I read. In fact, some of the negatives attributed to the Epson in this forum were actually attributed to the Sony in the reviews I read. The consensus from the reviews I've read is that the two PJ's are VERY close in overall picture quality and black levels with an ever so slight advantage going to the Sony. Each one does some things better than the other but at about the same price point, the 6020 (identical to the less pricy 5020 but comes with extras) is the better value because it includes 2 pair of 3D glasses, a ceiling mount, a 3rd year of overnight warranty coverage and a spare bulb.

A review may be nice to give you a quick overview comparison and I definitely refer to them myself, but I prefer to hear the long term real life reviews / experiences actual owners have had to give me an idea on how a project may fit into my preferences.

I have had exposure to both Epson and Sony (at home and work) and while the Epson isn't a bad projector, for me, the Sony is just a much better projector for a little more even without taking into account the picture quality since they are close. The Sony build quality is much better and while the support isn't nearly as good as Epson's that doesn't matter if you do not have issues with the projector to begin with. I am very picky about the noise level of the projector and the Epson is just too noisy for me while the Sony is dead quiet. Likewise I do not like to worry about the chance of getting dust blobs in the projector, I have had a number of them appear in the two Epsons I had but was lucky enough for them to be either small enough to not be noticeable from viewing distance or I was able to blast them out.

Sorry if I sound a bit strong in my view but I have had a number of projectors and the most recent two I have bought are Sony which should speak for itself. smile.gif
post #41 of 99
I considered both projectors and there are a few reasons I chose the Sony, the number one being the pixel fill is way better on the Sony. I have a 150" screen and the pixels and sde are way more noticeable on the Epson. Also, RC separates the Sony in apparent sharpness from the Epson and 1000 calibrated lumens vs 600 is an easy choice for large screes (my screen is acoustically transparent and my projector ceiling mounted so no chance for a HP screen).
Just my thoughts.
post #42 of 99
The Sony is a much more expensive projector than the Epson, and IMO if you sit close to the screen or are sensitive to IRIS changes, the Sony is easily the better projector. The Sony has a brighter best mode, more accurate saturation tracking with less calibration required, better white-level uniformity, slightly better blacks, less visible IRIS, very accurate COLOR, better build quality, and a higher pixel fill density.

The Epson is a great projector for $2000ish+, but it's no Sony or JVC. Now I know some might get offended when I say that, so let me just say those of us who have been in this hobby for a few years will see things a little differently. Also, your eyes adjust to whatever tech you are watching as long as you don't know better (never owned an LCOS and sit close to LCD, you're used to it). I watched an Epson 5010 for a few days at my friends, and I can tell you that it is no JVC or Sony.

There are some that convince themselves because the Epson is so great at 3D, that the Epson can also beat the JVC in 2D. Let me say this, the Epson can POP more sometimes, so for a select few it might win sometimes or even overall, but that extra POP the Epson gives at times comes with a rigidness and inconsistency that can also take you out of the film. The Epson can also look flatter in non-closeups like wide-angle scenery shots, it does its best on closeups of faces (it gives faces a more three-dimensional look at certain times). When I watch it, I think wow that looks kind of cool, but then 2 minutes later I think, yah not bad, but I still prefer the JVC (or Sony)...

Just my opinion, I know it hurts smile.gif

They are all good projectors, the Sony and JVC are just better at 2D...
Edited by coderguy - 4/25/13 at 6:34pm
post #43 of 99
I just thought I would throw in my own experience to this mix.

I don't have a limitless bank account and so have always had to cut my cloth according to my means. My first projector was a Sanyo that I purchased 3 years ago. It's given sterling service and I have no real complaints. My reasons for upgrading were based around the fact the lamp was needing replaced, I was hankering after 3D and I had just been gifted a couple of thousand pounds.

Initially I set my budget at around £1000, but had to rule out the lower cost projectors because of their general inflexibility when it came to lens shift. Where we have had to mount the projector (ceiling) and the screen (ceiling) means we need a projector with a large zoom and lens shift.

On searching I discovered that most of the projectors with the specific lens requirements were well above my budget. Indeed were well above the amount of the gift!

I then came across the Epson TW8100 (5020) for less than £2000 (since I bought mine I see that most places have it listed for less than £2000 now). This was still more than I had anticipated spending, but after reading many, many reviews praising it I decided to take the plunge. And I am so glad that I did!!

Now I'm no expert, but I do know what I like and what I feel looks good. The TW8100 doesn't come with the THX setting, so there is no base line to work from, but the out-of-the-box settings are not bad at all. I haven't paid for professional calibration and, for me, I can't see the point. After making a number of adjustments and comparing them with others, and also asking the family's opinion, I have arrived at a display that is nothing short of stunning! At least in my opinion. Everything is crystal and sharp; the colour quality and accuracy is astonishing (although you have to be careful what sources you watch. Some satellite channels have really poor source material to start with.); black levels are really dark; and it's still watchable during the day, it's so bright! Ok during the day you have to sacrifice black depth, but I still prefer watching TV on the big screen (100") compared to our 42" telly.

And so to 3D, which was something I had been wanting since seeing a friend's Panasonic TV. I was very impressed with the image quality, much more so than what I saw at the cinema. I was also more impressed with the active glasses. They seemed to give a much more 'real' 3D experience than the passive I'd seen. The cost of active had always put me off, but I was willing to swallow that if the experience was better. Also the deal I got on the projector came with 4 Samsung active glasses.

I have been very pleased with the 3D on the Epson. It is very bright. Much brighter than anything else I've seen. The only fly in the ointment for us is it turns out my wife can't watch 3D. It just hurts too much, and that is irrespective of active or passive (again tried at a friends). The rest of us don't suffer from this and really enjoy watching 3D movies. However, I have cured the problem of us all being able to watch 3D together.

I purchased a pair of Xpand X105-RF glasses for my wife, which has a mode that only shows one of the 3D frames (intended primarily for Dual View gaming). This allows my wife to watch a 3D movie in 2D while the rest of us still watch in 3D. Result! I also found the quality of the Xpand glasses to be so good in 3D that I replaced the Samsung glasses. Not cheap, but worth the money for us.

So finally, is the Epson 5020 better or worse than the SonyHW50? Frankly I don't know, but I also don't care. For my budget, as was, the Epson was the best I could afford and that's good enough for me. I can't see the Sony being able to better the Epson by $600 - $800 worth.

Always remember that any person's opinion, by its very nature, has to be subjective. You can only base it on your own perceptions. While the science can measure pixel density and lumens to the Nth degree that can only go so far when judging the quality difference between 2 or more projectors. Nothing beats being able to see it with your own eyes, preferably under exactly the same conditions, using exactly the same equipment and source material. Sadly that's rarely possible. So hopefully you can make an educated decision based on reviews and personal experience.

What looks good to me may not look good to you and vice-versa. I've seen only one professionally calibrated TV so my experience is certainly not exhaustive, but while the picture was really good it wasn't quite to my liking. But that's just me. My point is that once you reach a certain level of quality I doubt if many of us can detect much beyond it.

I have no affiliation with Epson and have owned plenty of excellent Sony devices. My current Bluray player is Sony and I have a PS3 (eagerly awaiting the PS4). I personally tend not to have any brand loyalty. My TV is a Phillips LCD, which gave us the best picture quality (in our opinion) for the money at the time. I will always judge each product I buy based on reports and reviews (preferably with some first hand experience) and can hopefully come to a reasonably well educated decision.

I can certainly recommend the Epson 5020. I have not been disappointed with it in any way and I'm sure it will impress many people. After a little bit of time spent with the settings I am very happy with the picture quality under all viewing conditions. The ideal is still, obviously, a dark viewing room, but it works great in ambient light too.

Hopefully my experience with the Epson, and my general musings, might help another make a decision.
post #44 of 99
Thanks Brian, I ordered a 6020 the other day for the anamorphic option otherwise I would of went 5020 as it's best in class especially for 3D.

I think Sony came out with the 50es because Epson killed the 30es. But I still don't see where the extra $1000 dollars goes. Blacks are just as black and seems like the differences are so small that you need scientific measuring instruments just to see them. All in all, I agree that Epson is the best in class value and performance
post #45 of 99
I own an Epson 6010 and have been thrilled with its performance in my dedicated theater. I suspect that someone who has other interests in addition to home theater would get a very distorted idea of the quality of the various projectors by reading threads like this one. Presumably any of the primary contenders in the $3000-$3500 price range - Epson, Sony, JVC - would look pretty close in performance to 99% of the viewers.

Lots of crap being slung here.
post #46 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

Thanks Brian, I ordered a 6020 the other day for the anamorphic option otherwise I would of went 5020 as it's best in class especially for 3D.

I think Sony came out with the 50es because Epson killed the 30es. But I still don't see where the extra $1000 dollars goes. Blacks are just as black and seems like the differences are so small that you need scientific measuring instruments just to see them. All in all, I agree that Epson is the best in class value and performance

How much was the 6020? I paid just over 3k for my 50es....? Is the 6020 really just over 2k these days?

Edit - Looked it up, seems there is a $500 price difference in retail.

Either one is a great unit.
post #47 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

How much was the 6020? I paid just over 3k for my 50es....? Is the 6020 really just over 2k these days?

Edit - Looked it up, seems there is a $500 price difference in retail.

Either one is a great unit.

The 6020 is more expensive than the street price of the HW50, but the 5020 is cheaper.
post #48 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianvic View Post

I just thought I would throw in my own experience to this mix.



So finally, is the Epson 5020 better or worse than the SonyHW50? Frankly I don't know, but I also don't care. For my budget, as was, the Epson was the best I could afford and that's good enough for me. I can't see the Sony being able to better the Epson by $600 - $800 worth.

.

Just wanted to touch on this...keep in mind the 50 comes with a free extra bulb, and an extra year of warranty. Not sure what that is worth to the average consumer, but it does make up a bit of the price difference.

I never got the 5020 or 6020 but did have the 6010 before I got my HW50ES. Most have been beaten to death but this was my list....

1. The Sony is much quieter. It's more quiet on full blast than the 6010 was on Eco
2. Input lag was reduced by almost 50ms going from the Espon to Sony
3. Calibrated Lumens were a heck of a lot more
4. General color in Bright TV was better than Epson's Dynamic
5. Sealed optics, I had a few dust blobs with the Epsons over the years.
6. Reality Creation - This is a very cool video affect that really changes the picture for the better IMO!


So in my case with with the extra bulb and warranty, the rest add up to making up for the price difference.
post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

How much was the 6020? I paid just over 3k for my 50es....? Is the 6020 really just over 2k these days?

Edit - Looked it up, seems there is a $500 price difference in retail.

Either one is a great unit.

Authorized dealer for a new 6020 is $2900 from my source. Maybe someone knows a cheaper route. 5020 is around just over 2k I think. Ofcourse, Audiogon has one FS for under 2k and a factory refurb with warranty on Amazon for $1500.
Edited by snyderkv - 9/6/13 at 7:16pm
post #50 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaotikr1 View Post

Just wanted to touch on this...keep in mind the 50 comes with a free extra bulb, and an extra year of warranty. Not sure what that is worth to the average consumer, but it does make up a bit of the price difference.

I never got the 5020 or 6020 but did have the 6010 before I got my HW50ES. Most have been beaten to death but this was my list....

1. The Sony is much quieter. It's more quiet on full blast than the 6010 was on Eco
2. Input lag was reduced by almost 50ms going from the Espon to Sony
3. Calibrated Lumens were a heck of a lot more
4. General color in Bright TV was better than Epson's Dynamic
5. Sealed optics, I had a few dust blobs with the Epsons over the years.
6. Reality Creation - This is a very cool video affect that really changes the picture for the better IMO!


So in my case with with the extra bulb and warranty, the rest add up to making up for the price difference.

First off, the 6020 and 5020 are the same minus some accessories and anamorphic options. So pricing and picture could be compared to the 5020

1) From projector central reviews "Fan noise. Both projectors are dead silent in Eco mode"
2) Input lag is 16ms more. Not 40
3) Lumens aren't really an issue in a bat cave and 680 for the Epson is plenty. Other modes are for larger screens and ambient viewing.
4) Not comparing apples to apples. According to projector reviews, color and blacks are negligible with slight edge to Epson for blacks.

The Epson 10 series you mentioned competed with the 30es and from what I can tell Epson beat it hands down even though Sony charged $1000 more hence why I think Sony had to come out with the 50es. The Epson 20 series competes with 50es not the 10 series as you stated.

I just don't see someone saying hey look at that RC it makes some sources (football) look slightly better, I think I'm going to pay an extra $1000 for that.

I think we are nit picking at pretty irrelevant things. If someone finds RC worth an extra $1000 or other feature that fits your particular application then nobody here is discouraging the purchase of a Sony.
Edited by snyderkv - 9/6/13 at 8:55pm
post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson View Post

I own an Epson 6010 and have been thrilled with its performance in my dedicated theater. I suspect that someone who has other interests in addition to home theater would get a very distorted idea of the quality of the various projectors by reading threads like this one. Presumably any of the primary contenders in the $3000-$3500 price range - Epson, Sony, JVC - would look pretty close in performance to 99% of the viewers.

Lots of crap being slung here.

My 5 year old half-blind pet monkey disagrees with you. They are all good projectors, but some are better in some ways than other ways. Every projector has its strengths and weaknesses.

Only if you also believe that people cannot tell the difference between different TV's, like comparing a rear-projection TV to a Plasma to an LCD/LED.

LCOS and LCD produce different looks to 99% of viewers. Every one of my friends or family (and most are not techies), can easily tell the difference between an Epson and a JVC. I've had as many as 6 projectors mounted in the same room at once. Now for them to tell the difference between a DLP and an LCOS is more difficult, but that is because the difference here is more subtle in bright scenes, but more so in darker scenes. If I play darker scenes they can tell the difference between a JVC and DLP as well.

Why can people see the difference between an Epson and LCOS?
Because LCOS has a different look to it, it's smoother looking, but if I moved people back far enough from the screen (say 1.5x screen width), then they'd have more difficult discerning the difference. Also, some people will notice the IRIS, though most don't unless you point it out.

As the other poster noted, the Epson has 30+ MS or more lag than the Sony, for competitive FPS gamers, the Sony is better. The Sony has a better IRIS, the IRIS isn't as noticeable as the Epson's IRIS. The Sony has a higher pixel-fill, if you sit close enough to the screen, the Sony looks more film-like. The Epson arguably has better 3D than the Sony (most would think so), but other than that, the Sony looks better in 2D.

No crap being slung, this is the truth if you bought both projectors and properly A/B'd them, unless you used your 5-year old half-blind pet monkey, then results may vary or YMMV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson 
The Epson 10 series you mentioned competed with the 30es and from what I can tell Epson beat it hands down. The Epson 20 series competes with the 50es, The Epson improved the color, black levels, 3D etc. So they are pretty much on equal footing hence why I'm not sure where the extra $1000 goes.

The two projectors have different advantages/disadvantages. The Sony has a smoother look, the Epson has a brighter torch mode. However, in best modes, the Epson isn't as bright as the Sony (though the difference isn't huge).
Edited by coderguy - 9/6/13 at 9:55pm
post #52 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post


As the other poster noted, the Epson has 40+ MS or more lag than the Sony, for competitive FPS gamers, the Sony is better..

Projector Central Review:

Sony: Game mode will reduce input lag to 34ms, or 2 frames
Epson: Fast processing is at 50ms.

34 - 50 = 16ms. I don't think lag is an issue for most gamers anymore.
post #53 of 99
del
post #54 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

The 6020 is more expensive than the street price of the HW50.

Why would you compare MSRP to street?
post #55 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwilson View Post


Lots of crap being slung here.

Right? haha All one needs to do is read the reviews on these projectors. They pretty much sum everything up.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/image.php

3D: Epson
Price: Epson
Blacks: Epson
Bulb Life: Epson
Warranty: Epson
Color: Negligible
Shadow: Epson again
Placement Flexibility: Epson (way better zoom, wireless, brightness etc)
CA Adjustments: Epson
Image Noise: Epson was good enough to be definitely visibly better than the more expensive Sony VPL-HW50ES

Sharpness: Sony due to RC. That's it? Yup
Edited by snyderkv - 9/7/13 at 12:08am
post #56 of 99
Shadow detail is a function of gamma calibration and Native on/off, I'm tired of people mentioning shadow detail, it's nonsensical. The only possible argument that can be made for bad shadow detail is when you cannot properly calibrate the gamma or the IRIS causes GAMMA issues, or when the color is too hard to calibrate in general so that it causes an issue. I can make any projector I own have better shadow detail than the other just by changing the gamma, it's a invalid test and Art @ PR should know better than to do Gamma comparisons, it's simply drift and differences in calibration or gray-scale accentuating the colors in the shadow detail. Gray-scale can affect it too because the way our eyes see certain colors is more pronounced as "shadow detail". it's purely a function of calibration and in some cases native on/off + calibration. Since most of our meters cannot read perfectly under 20 or so IRE, even a calibrated projector can have different shadow detail from a gray-scale bias or error in the lower IRE's, which can be fixed by eye if necessary.

The Epsons have white-field uniformity errors and saturation tracking issues, the Sony has the more accurate color and is brighter in best mode. But since I sit at 1.1x screen width from the screen, the main thing for me is the pixel fill. The IRIS is definitely smoother on the Sony, there is no doubt.

Lag times have to be done correctly and averaged out, it's generally considered that the Epson lag time was around 60-65ms, not 50ms. There is no discussing this in a NON-BIAS way since you've already made up your mind. The Epsons are good projectors, but in 2D I'd take a Sony or JVC.
Edited by coderguy - 9/6/13 at 9:58pm
post #57 of 99
After reading the posts that followed my last entry, it's clear that what may be important to one buyer may not be to another. The Epson 6020 seems to offer the best bang for the buck while the Sony seems to offer better build quality and a slightly better image albeit, at a higher cost. It appears that the Epson may be the PJ of choice for the more budget minded buyer while those who can spend the extra may opt for the Sony HW50 or a JVC.

For what it's worth, I haven't made my own purchase yet but the Epson is no longer on my short list. Based on what I've seen, info in these forums (and others) and reviews I've read these past few months, it looks like I'll likely end up with a JVC but exactly which model will depend on my budget at the time of my purchase. The new models will be out by then so that could all change but in the end, I will buy the best PJ I can afford knowing there will be better PJ's available that are out of my reach. My purchase may even include a closeout on a current model once the new models become available if the value is there and the newer models don't offer a significant improvement over the current lot. In closing I'd like to point out that I value each and every opinion I've read in this forum because many good points have been made here and they help those of us who are still looking to make a purchase.
post #58 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by snyderkv View Post

[quote name="baloo_btru" url="/t/1466139/epson-5020-vs-sony-vpl-hw50es/30#post_23708032"]The 6020 is more expensive than the street price of the HW50.[/quote]Why would you compare MSRP to street?

Because you're not likely to get the 6020 for much less than msrp
post #59 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by baloo_btru View Post

Because you're not likely to get the 6020 for much less than msrp

What are you talking about? I got mine for $2900 with warranty from an easily findable reputable authorized dealer.

But why not compare the 5020 instead it's much cheaper and the same exact PQ. If you're getting a Sony for less which I doubt, it's because it's value is only worth that much.
post #60 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

I'm tired of people mentioning shadow detail,

Lag times have to be done correctly and averaged out, it's generally considered that the Epson lag time was around 60-65ms, not 50ms. There is no discussing this in a NON-BIAS way since you've already made up your mind. The Epsons are good projectors, but in 2D I'd take a Sony or JVC.

Whoa man calm down. Both units were calibrated by the same guy and the shadow detail results are posted. No need to get defensive.

Lag times have been tested in two separate reviews I believe including the one below. Where are yours?

Aren't you the one who raved about blacks in the sub 1000 forum thus not recommending the lower model Epson?, but now that the Epson in this class shows better blacks and (shadows) it no longer seems to be a priority? It obviously appears that YOU are the bias one, not me.

Mtrunz, I copied all the Epson/Sony benefits that I could find from two separate reviews to help make your decision.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/home-cinema-5020/image.php

3D: Epson
Price: Epson
Blacks/Pop: Epson
Bulb Life: Epson
Warranty: Epson
Color: Negligible
Shadow: Epson again
Placement Flexibility: Epson (way better zoom, lens shift, wireless, brightness etc)
CA Adjustments: Epson
Image Noise: Epson was good enough to be definitely visibly better than the more expensive Sony VPL-HW50ES

Sharpness: Sony due to RC. That's it? Yup
Edited by snyderkv - 9/7/13 at 12:44am
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