or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Need some opinions please!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Need some opinions please! - Page 9

post #241 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

That's awesome! Your graphs probably look better now, eh?? Let's see 'em!


will do soon as I get a chance! been busy trying to get ready for a vacation starting may 4th.
post #242 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Thanks! yea with that big opening in the left side of my room, it really plays havoc trying to get the phase alignment right. If I want to nit pick, room treatments are probably needed to dial it 100%. I will probably hold off on any of that until we move and I have my dedicated HT room(Someday).

If one is not vigilant, they'll find themselves getting sucked into the esoteric nature of the subwoofer abyss.

Pick a point on your graph that seems to cover the middle ground; a +/-3dB range. Now how far above is the top and how far below it the bottom? That's what you're really dealing with is the +/- that is above or below a +/-3dB range. When reading graphs, as we get sucked up into the esoteric ideal, one loses sight that we're listening to a transient response as opposed to a constant tone while looking at a sound meter.

In the case of our subwoofer based graph, I pick 20Hz as the bottom of the +/-3dB range as that's the THX reference standard. I add +6dB and call that the top of the +/-3dB range. Using 1/12th smoothing, the graph continues +2.5dB above the top of the range and -2.5dB below the 20Hz or bottom of the range. While listening to a continuous tone, a change of +/-3dB is suppose to be barely noticeable and as consumers, we're dealing with fast paced, FULL SPECTRUM, action oriented sound tracks, with wide dynamic range while fast paced video simultaneously plays before our eyes.

The point, based on how we hear, the dynamic nature of full spectrum, fast paced transient sound tracks and the video playing before our eyes, one needs to take the above into consideration when evaluating the results or their SUBWOOFER based measurements (consisting of a fraction of the whole measurement) while sitting quietly in front of one's computer.

Just saying, in my opinion, one should take the above into consideration before blowing a pile on room treatments.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 4/19/13 at 9:24am
post #243 of 338
Thread Starter 
here is todays efforts...now we need to disregard post 125 graph because I feel that measurement was skewed. Now my feet are wet and I have a idea whats going on here, I must say this graph is better. Still getting a huge gain @ 30hz, so im going to need a mini dsp to cure that.





was doing a max spl test today and hit 122db according to the radio shack meter with no correction factored in. roughly 125db @30hz corrected with a tad bit more headroom left. these xv15's are nasty!! cool.gif
Edited by basshead81 - 4/22/13 at 5:31pm
post #244 of 338
If that's LEFT CHANNEL w/sub... isn't your sub too hot by like 20dB??? eek.gif
Edited by Joe0Bloggs - 4/22/13 at 7:32pm
post #245 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe0Bloggs View Post

If that's LEFT CHANNEL w/sub... isn't your sub too hot by like 20dB??? eek.gif

the point of this test was to measure the subs...i had the subs set hot because I wanted to do a max spl test without taxing the rest of my speakers.
post #246 of 338
Having to stick ear plugs in your ears,.............suggests that you had a successful test.
post #247 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Having to stick ear plugs in your ears,.............suggests that you had a successful test.

lol indeed! smile.gif
post #248 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

lol indeed! smile.gif

...biggrin.gif
post #249 of 338
Thread Starter 
here is another graph without the subs so hot smile.gif
all speakers on during this measurement.

post #250 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Yes, the 2x4 is the one to get. The plugin is a different story. For mono sub setups (x.1) go with the 3/4 way advanced. For stereo subs (x.2) go with the 2 way + sub 2.1

I forgot to thank you for this info lol! what would be the advantage of stereo vs mono with sub eq'ing?
post #251 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

here is another graph without the subs so hot smile.gif
all speakers on during this measurement.


This is a very frustrating sojourn in that with normal restrictions, one ferrets out, positive changes, incrementally. That's why the benefit of adding a third or fourth subwoofer and hence why we added a third subwoofer and I want to add a fourth subwoofer.

If your graph, was a product of our room's acoustics, I would raise the AVR's menu based gain for the center channel, +3dB as based on our room measurements, the right shoulder has a drop-off beginning at 78Hz. With Anti-Mode engaged, the left side of the graph would benefit from the 25Hz boost being engaged. But be aware, the 25Hz boost will create a camel's hump like you have at 32Hz. If you already have the 35Hz boost engaged, turn the 35Hz boost off and only engage the 25Hz boost.

None of my above can I say is universal to yours or anybody elses room measuring efforts. All my comments (recommendations) are specific to what REW shows to be true and accurate for our room's acoustics. On this side of the monitor, all I can do is hope the suggestions help with what you're dealing with on your side of the monitor.

(we're through the looking glass here)
post #252 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

This is a very frustrating sojourn in that with normal restrictions, one ferrets out, positive changes, incrementally. That's why the benefit of adding a third or fourth subwoofer and hence why we added a third subwoofer and I want to add a fourth subwoofer.

If your graph, was a product of our room's acoustics, I would raise the AVR's menu based gain for the center channel, +3dB as based on our room measurements, the right shoulder has a drop-off beginning at 78Hz. With Anti-Mode engaged, the left side of the graph would benefit from the 25Hz boost being engaged. But be aware, the 25Hz boost will create a camel's hump like you have at 32Hz. If you already have the 35Hz boost engaged, turn the 35Hz boost off and only engage the 25Hz boost.

None of my above can I say is universal to yours or anybody elses room measuring efforts. All my comments (recommendations) are specific to what REW shows to be true and accurate for our room's acoustics. On this side of the monitor, all I can do is hope the suggestions help with what you're dealing with on your side of the monitor.

(we're through the looking glass here)

thanks for the tip beeman! i dont have any kind of eq system yet, so ill work on the 70-125hz region monday and the 30hz hump will have to be for now.
post #253 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

thanks for the tip beeman! i dont have any kind of eq system yet, so ill work on the 70-125hz region monday and the 30hz hump will have to be for now.

Personally, I'm starting to look at the +/- lower/upper range of graphs as opposed to looking to a perfect graph for as we age, we hear in a smile or a "V", not flat as is the standard.

Low frequencies are harder for humans to perceive and we need to increase output to have the lows come through on the same perceived level as we easily perceive highs as human hearing has a yet to be explained to me notch around 8kHz.

Also, I'm looking at graphs as a +/- average as opposed to +/-3dB. How much above and below the +/- 3dB range, beyond +/-3dB? If one cuts this range out of their graph, how much of the above and below center line does one see the rest of the graph?

One sees a perfect graph when physically presented before them but they don't hear in the same fashion.........or in the light.........see/hear a perfect graph being presented. And reproduced sound tracks are not reproduced in the static nature of a frequency sweep but instead are presented to the listener like popcorn, all over the full spectrum, at so many frames per second, all the while, one is dealing with visual, sonic and emotional input.

So in the end, as consumers of this perfect graph, we're caught between the reality of what as a graph is being presented vs what we "REALLY" hear, vs the confusion fo what's being present to REW for evaluation.....the psychological quest for a perfect +/- 3dB graph. Fade to music.............

Never give up: (Black Betty)

(I was thinking of "Into The Wild" but not enough energy)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 4/28/13 at 6:16am
post #254 of 338
Thread Starter 
makes sense...in the years past on my old systems, i would always set the eq as a V. this has always sounded better imo then flat.
post #255 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Yes, the 2x4 is the one to get. The plugin is a different story. For mono sub setups (x.1) go with the 3/4 way advanced. For stereo subs (x.2) go with the 2 way + sub 2.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

I forgot to thank you for this info lol! what would be the advantage of stereo vs mono with sub eq'ing?

Their may be or may not be an advantage, it depends on your AVR.
If your AVR can EQ 2 subs independently then the stereo plugin would be better, it will keep the two channels separate.
If your AVR treats all subs as one then the mono plugin will work just fine.
Either way, the MiniDSP will allow adding EQ to each sub independently of one another.
post #256 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post


Their may be or may not be an advantage, it depends on your AVR.
If your AVR can EQ 2 subs independently then the stereo plugin would be better, it will keep the two channels separate.
If your AVR treats all subs as one then the mono plugin will work just fine.
Either way, the MiniDSP will allow adding EQ to each sub independently of one another.

my avr treats all subs mono. so I need to order the mini dsp 2x4 3/4 advanced plugin.
post #257 of 338
Thread Starter 
couple more questions concerning the mini dsp....would the balanced or unbalanced version be best and which input voltage? revision A has .9v and revision B 2v.

I am leaning towards the unbalanced revision B with 2v input.
post #258 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

couple more questions concerning the mini dsp....would the balanced or unbalanced version be best and which input voltage? revision A has .9v and revision B 2v.

I am leaning towards the unbalanced revision B with 2v input.

I'm using the unbalanced Rev_B, but IIRC there is a jumper that can be changed so either unit can be setup as Rev_A or Rev_B.
Edited by ceh383 - 5/26/13 at 9:00am
post #259 of 338
From my reading, version A, with a 0.9V sensitivity is more sensitive and best suited for computer based systems. Version B is best suited for less sensitive AVR based systems.

I tried putting an order in for a miniDSP this morning but being an overseas purchase, the order was declined so Monday morning, I have to give the card company a heads-up call so the purchase will be authorized.

FWIW, when I make the miniDSP purchase, it will be for a mini DSP 2x4, version B, with the 2.1 advanced module.

This is what I read in post #1530.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1281290/minidsp/1530

Seems I'm not understanding what your asking or I'm confused in how I'm trying to articulate my response or my thinking is all mixed up with this new information. With me, easily it could be all three.

I found good ordering information in this post on Audioholics.



-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 5/26/13 at 9:09am
post #260 of 338
Thread Starter 
ok guys thanks for the info!! i am going to order the 2x4 unbalanced rev.b 2.1 advanced.
post #261 of 338
Thread Starter 
minidsp ordered!
post #262 of 338
"2x4 unbalanced rev.b 2.1advanced"
Id like to hear you say that 3 times in a row! biggrin.gif
post #263 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

minidsp ordered!

Due to the card being declined, I'm envious of your order. tongue.gif I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning when I can get the authorization issue cleared up.

FYI, upon further reading, it seems we need to supply our own power supply. eek.gif Can't swear on this point but the info was at the bottom of the linked review.

My understanding, if the input plug fits, any 12v wall wart should do. Just make sure of polarity.
post #264 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

FYI, upon further reading, it seems we need to supply our own power supply. eek.gif

My understanding, if the input plug fits, any 12v wall wart should do. Just make sure of polarity.

can you use the usb for power and use a cell phone charger?
post #265 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

can you use the usb for power and use a cell phone charger?

Yes you can. Any 5~24vdc @ >150mA power supply will work as well....

I would recommend a power supply over supplying power over USB it's easier when you want/need to make changes to your filters...
post #266 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

can you use the usb for power and use a cell phone charger?

Look to the bottom of the review. According to the reviewer, you caught a break when the author posted: " I believe the unbalanced version of the 2x4 does not require DC power as it will run off a minUSB charger such as the type used in Phones and PS3 controllers."

(make sure of polarity)

-
post #267 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Yes you can. Any 5~24vdc @ >150mA power supply will work as well....

I would recommend a power supply over supplying power over USB it's easier when you want/need to make changes to your filters...

Ya i was wondering about that. Could you send me a link to the power supply you used? thx
post #268 of 338
This is what the author recommended in the review.

My understanding, any plug-in power supply that outputs 150mV worth of 12v DC output with the proper polarity, will work.
post #269 of 338
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

This is what the author recommended in the review.

My understanding, any plug-in power supply that outputs 150mV worth of 12v DC output with the proper polarity, will work.

Yea I understand that, I was just wanting to know what guys were using...didnt want to pick up a cheapy. Thanks for the help!!
post #270 of 338
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post

Ya i was wondering about that. Could you send me a link to the power supply you used? thx

I can't give a link, the one I am using is 12vdc @ 500mA, I had it in a box of old stuff I've collected over the years. I think it was from an old Linksys switch...
I also have it plugged into a triggered outlet that only turns on when the main zone is on.

One important detail, verify positive and negative with a meter before hooking it up...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › Need some opinions please!