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2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread - Page 90

post #2671 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post


Then I suggest you consider a professional calibration.


Ian

In my case a professional calibration even by the master Chad B did not eliminate the issue. I also had the main video board replaced to no avail.
post #2672 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Bombard View Post

Gee,,, should I listen to you're repeats or listen to the advise of the well known respected professional ISF calibrator DNice???? What to do??? biggrin.gif
Please show me where Dnice says it is suggested to run his slides as the only way to break in a panel or prevent IR.

Dnice recommends to run slides for 100 hours just to match the way he aged his screen if you want to match his calibration. What he forgets to mention though is even if you age your screen exactly like he did and then apply his settings it will never look exactly like his TV anyway. So in theory whether you punch in his setting at 1 hour or 100 hours you will not be able to even notice a difference. There is even a possibility that punching his settings in the first hour can even yield you better results then punching it in at 100 hours. It is pretty much a crap shoot no matter how you break in the panel at at how many hours you use his settings. Even Dnice himself said the panel shifted colors all the way up to 300 hours which is when it seemed to stabilize and needed to be re-calibrated.

The only reason to run the slides is to age the panel and put hours on it so it starts to settle-in without having to be in front of the TV worrying about black bars or static images. It is just a fail safe way to keep your TV on without worrying what's on it. This also will not prevent IR one bit. You can run slides for 500 hours and watch something at hour 501 and then get IR.
post #2673 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

In my case a professional calibration even by the master Chad B did not eliminate the issue. I also had the main video board replaced to no avail.

Crap. Not going to spend $400 then, is it bothersome, yes, is it a deal breaker, no. Anyhow thanks as always guys for the prompt responses. Oh, odd thing is I just started noticing this, I have had the TV for several months, I guess as the panel aged, this problem slowly exposed itself.... oh well. Still an AMAZING set given my net cost was only 1k.
post #2674 of 3303
I think the issue can be mitigated but not totally elminated, I have just come to accept it as a limitation of the panel. It does so many things well I try not to dwell on something I see in less than 5% of content.
post #2675 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Bombard View Post

Gee,,, should I listen to you're repeats or listen to the advise of the well known respected professional ISF calibrator DNice???? What to do??? biggrin.gif

He is actually correct.
post #2676 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Actually D-Nice doesn't recommend using his procedure unless you want to get the best out of his settings. Even then he refers to using his settings as a starting place, and no substitute for a professional calibration or further adjustments using a good setup disk.

I couldn't agree more. DNice's Custom settings ended up being a damn good starting point as were his slides for my 50ST60. For my Panny, DNice's internet recommendations and how my plasma responded to them only want me to have him calibrate my set that much more, if I was in an area that he serviced that is.
post #2677 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadett View Post

He is actually correct.

That's not a consideration for some people. biggrin.gif
post #2678 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBas View Post

Have a little bit of an issue with skin tones I am hoping folks with more in depth knowledge of calibration settings can help me wth. I have tried D-Nice, CNET, and some other settings and which is a significant increase in PQ, no matter whose settings I use, I always get a green-ish hue on skin tones. It is very noticeable when when the camera does a close up of the person. My question is which settings and there are a lot with the word green in them, should I adjust to try to fix this issue?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post


It's a pesky issue I have reduced it somewhat with calibration but it still exists depending on the source. In short there is no easy solution sadly

 

 

 

Why are you guys experiencing a green-ish hue?? What is it from? Please don't tell me it's from running slides.....

post #2679 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by oechikr View Post





Why are you guys experiencing a green-ish hue?? What is it from? Please don't tell me it's from running slides.....

no.... Result of my panel aging and using "starting point" calibration settings. The settings no doubt increase PQ, however, since every set is different, the settings are by no way universal, as many have pointed out, it is no substitute for a paid calibration. There will be nuisances, either take the cheap man's calibration and use the settings on the internet, or pay for a calibration and get the very best out of your TV.
post #2680 of 3303
If you use someone else's settings that fix a green deficiency, and your TV doesn't have that deficiency, then your picture will end up too green. Same for red or blue. And these deficiencies and pushes can be in any range of the gamma scale independently. You could have dark greys that are too green and light greys that are too red. See the last link in my signature for a sampling of seven "before pro calibration" gamma greyscale readings from ST60s.
post #2681 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBas View Post


no.... Result of my panel aging and using "starting point" calibration settings. The settings no doubt increase PQ, however, since every set is different, the settings are by no way universal, as many have pointed out, it is no substitute for a paid calibration. There will be nuisances, either take the cheap man's calibration and use the settings on the internet, or pay for a calibration and get the very best out of your TV.

 

Ohh okay. Soo using someone else's settings resulting in a bad picture. You do know the only real way to get a true calibration is to fork out a couple hundred's and hire an ISF calibrator or go a couple steps under and use a  calibration dvd or program.

post #2682 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by oechikr View Post

Ohh okay. Soo using someone else's settings resulting in a bad picture. You do know the only real way to get a true calibration is to fork out a couple hundred's and hire an ISF calibrator or go a couple steps under and use a  calibration dvd or program.

Kind of the whole point of this thread... And no one in this thread will say the settings produce a bad picture, that is taking it WAY out of context. Again, since every set is different there will be anomalies and as I stated earlier, its a bit annoying on certain scenes but in no way, shape or form, a deal breaker. The settings posted on the internet more often that not, produce much higher PQ than the factory settings. Also I am well aware of calibration and cost, I had Greg Loewen calibrate my previous set, my current ST60 is a stand in until 4k is a little more mainstream, and if any manufacture can ever figure out how to produce decently priced OLED displays, so I chose to forgo a calibration and use settings from the internet.
post #2683 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBas View Post

Kind of the whole point of this thread... And no one in this thread will say the settings produce a bad picture, that is taking it WAY out of context. Again, since every set is different there will be anomalies and as I stated earlier, its a bit annoying on certain scenes but in no way, shape or form, a deal breaker. The settings posted on the internet more often that not, produce much higher PQ than the factory settings. Also I am well aware of calibration and cost, I had Greg Loewen calibrate my previous set, my current ST60 is a stand in until 4k is a little more mainstream, and if any manufacture can ever figure out how to produce decently priced OLED displays, so I chose to forgo a calibration and use settings from the internet.

FWIW, per an Engadget article from CES, Samsung rep says that "cheap OLED is still 3-4 years away".

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/10/samsung-cheap-oled-tvs-wont-be-ready-for-three-to-four-years/
post #2684 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by oechikr View Post

Ohh okay. Soo using someone else's settings resulting in a bad picture. You do know the only real way to get a true calibration is to fork out a couple hundred's and hire an ISF calibrator or go a couple steps under and use a  calibration dvd or program.

Kind of the whole point of this thread... And no one in this thread will say the settings produce a bad picture, that is taking it WAY out of context. Again, since every set is different there will be anomalies and as I stated earlier, its a bit annoying on certain scenes but in no way, shape or form, a deal breaker. The settings posted on the internet more often that not, produce much higher PQ than the factory settings. Also I am well aware of calibration and cost, I had Greg Loewen calibrate my previous set, my current ST60 is a stand in until 4k is a little more mainstream, and if any manufacture can ever figure out how to produce decently priced OLED displays, so I chose to forgo a calibration and use settings from the internet.


No. There have been a lot of people who have said plugging in other settings have made their picture worse, or too green or too red, or "didn't work" for them.
And the part I put in bold is way off base. Actually the science is that it is unlikely you will get objectively "better" PQ by using someone else's settings. You may end up liking how it looks, but that's another story.
See the links in my signature.
post #2685 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by colnago View Post

FWIW, per an Engadget article from CES, Samsung rep says that "cheap OLED is still 3-4 years away".

http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/10/samsung-cheap-oled-tvs-wont-be-ready-for-three-to-four-years/

Expected, my upgrade cycle is 3-5 years depending on how drastic the technology has changed. The Panny I upgrade from was pretty ancient and suffered from rising black levels issue widely confirmed on here and by others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

No. There have been a lot of people who have said plugging in other settings have made their picture worse, or too green or too red, or "didn't work" for them.
And the part I put in bold is way off base. Actually the science is that it is unlikely you will get objectively "better" PQ by using someone else's settings. You may end up liking how it looks, but that's another story.
See the links in my signature.

Granted I no longer frequent AVS as much as I used to since I am very happy with my purchases throughout the years and I am not looking for something to worry about. That said, I am not a product engineer, but I can't imagine the manufacturing process for these panels is so random that they are not remotely the same to where one's a set of settings would be vastly different than others, but again maybe, never taken the time to compile a list and diff them, do not have time for all that. Also a lot of your quotes are from calibrators...what would you expect them to say, its business, no hate there. Anyhow why do calibrators and reviewers post their settings? Thoroughness, Curiosity, maybe in the unlikely event they will work for you...? All I know is when I use settings from the internet and dial them in using a basic calibrating BD, they are a heck of a lot better than what the TV came with. Settings from the factory on the TVs I have owned are always dull and lifeless. In any case, to each his own, as you stated, it's subjective, if shelling out $400 makes you happy then by all means go for it. For me, my set looks better with slightly tweaked settings from this thread.
Edited by RobBas - 1/10/14 at 12:41pm
post #2686 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by oechikr View Post

Ohh okay. Soo using someone else's settings resulting in a bad picture. You do know the only real way to get a true calibration is to fork out a couple hundred's and hire an ISF calibrator or go a couple steps under and use a  calibration dvd or program.


"A COUPLE HUNDRED DOLLARS???" Try doubling that amount (or more) my friend for an ISF-calibration,,, it ain't cheep (unlike DNice's posted calibration settings) but it will be accurate. Whether you'll be happy in the end is up to interpretation, just as it is with any personal preference item. smile.gif
post #2687 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

NYou may end up liking how it looks, but that's another story.
See the links in my signature.


Yeah, a story that many like myself have told IN DNICE'S THREAD! smile.gif
post #2688 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBas View Post


Kind of the whole point of this thread... And no one in this thread will say the settings produce a bad picture, that is taking it WAY out of context. Again, since every set is different there will be anomalies and as I stated earlier, its a bit annoying on certain scenes but in no way, shape or form, a deal breaker. The settings posted on the internet more often that not, produce much higher PQ than the factory settings. Also I am well aware of calibration and cost, I had Greg Loewen calibrate my previous set, my current ST60 is a stand in until 4k is a little more mainstream, and if any manufacture can ever figure out how to produce decently priced OLED displays, so I chose to forgo a calibration and use settings from the internet.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobBas View Post


Expected, my upgrade cycle is 3-5 years depending on how drastic the technology has changed. The Panny I upgrade from was pretty ancient and suffered from rising black levels issue widely confirmed on here and by others.
Granted I no longer frequent AVS as much as I used to since I am very happy with my purchases throughout the years and I am not looking for something to worry about. That said, I am not a product engineer, but I can't imagine the manufacturing process for these panels is so random that they are not remotely the same to where one's a set of settings would be vastly different than others, but again maybe, never taken the time to compile a list and diff them, do not have time for all that. Also a lot of your quotes are from calibrators...what would you expect them to say, its business, no hate there. Anyhow why do calibrators and reviewers post their settings? Thoroughness, Curiosity, maybe in the unlikely event they will work for you...? All I know is when I use settings from the internet and dial them in using a basic calibrating BD, they are a heck of a lot better than what the TV came with. Settings from the factory on the TVs I have owned are always dull and lifeless. In any case, to each his own, as you stated, it's subjective, if shelling out $400 makes you happy then by all means go for it. For me, my set looks better with slightly tweaked settings from this thread.

 

 

By when I said "true calibration", I was implying that every plasma panel is different. And that is completely true. I believe the manufacturing process is all generic expect for the odd defective plasma. But when you first turn on the tv, that starts the phosphor ageing process. Someone could put on a movie, go through the menu settings, watch normal tv, put on a game, or even run slides, right away. THAT is what makes every panel different. Phosphors do not age the same in any panel. Phosphors are very complex. Now settings, settings may look better depending on the persons taste. Plus on top of that every panel is different one way or another as I explained above.

post #2689 of 3303
I posted this months ago so it probably is now lost. Here are the results of copying the D-Nice settings on my 65VT60. No aging with slides was done.

Grayscale with D-Nice settings:


Gamma with D-Nice settings:


Gamut with D-Nice settings:



Grayscale is too green. Gamma is too high but this depends on the measurement method used. Gamut looks good on this particular grayscale.


Larry
Edited by LarryInRI - 1/10/14 at 2:59pm
post #2690 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeKnobber View Post

I will say it again:

There is absolutely zero evidence that running slides does anything good other than prematurely age your panel and run up your electric bill. These TVs are designed to be used right out of the box.

The only reason the 100 hours thing with slides got started was so that the phosphors would be aged a bit before calibration so that the calibration wouldn't drift much after it was done. If you aren't planning on calibrating your set there is no reason to ever run the slides. It does not help with burn in or anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Bombard View Post

Gee,,, should I listen to you're repeats or listen to the advise of the well known respected professional ISF calibrator DNice???? What to do??? biggrin.gif

Perhaps listen to us both then and learn a bit before replying, because D-Nice will tell you the same thing I did.

I am trying to help new forum users understand the reasons that slides exist and as can be seen from a lot of the posts there is a huge misperception that the slides are somehow critical to run or that they somehow are necessary to avoid burn in or to age pixels or whatever. Its important to educate that the only reason the slides exist is for those owners planning on getting a calibration done so that the TV has settled enough that the calibration won't drift and need to be touched up quickly. Having that information looks like it will save a few people a lot of worry and concern.
post #2691 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeKnobber View Post


Perhaps listen to us both then and learn a bit before replying, because D-Nice will tell you the same thing I did.

I am trying to help new forum users understand the reasons that slides exist and as can be seen from a lot of the posts there is a huge misperception that the slides are somehow critical to run or that they somehow are necessary to avoid burn in or to age pixels or whatever. Its important to educate that the only reason the slides exist is for those owners planning on getting a calibration done so that the TV has settled enough that the calibration won't drift and need to be touched up quickly. Having that information looks like it will save a few people a lot of worry and concern.


Not quite. Here is an explanation: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread/2280#post_24015520

And please don't interpret this as condoning the general use of slides. The only time that I used the slides was in 2009 to determine the results of completely following D-Nice's method for my unit.

Larry
post #2692 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeKnobber View Post


Perhaps listen to us both then and learn a bit before replying, because D-Nice will tell you the same thing I did.

I am trying to help new forum users understand the reasons that slides exist and as can be seen from a lot of the posts there is a huge misperception that the slides are somehow critical to run or that they somehow are necessary to avoid burn in or to age pixels or whatever. Its important to educate that the only reason the slides exist is for those owners planning on getting a calibration done so that the TV has settled enough that the calibration won't drift and need to be touched up quickly. Having that information looks like it will save a few people a lot of worry and concern.

Well there is truth in what you say but maybe it's just the way I look at things in this thread of DNice's. I'm a first time big screen owner, first time plasma owner, I did a lot of research beforehand so I didn't have to ask the same questions that pop up in these threads over and over again 3-5 times a week for months. I followed Dnice's advise, even went overboard with the 300 hour sildeshow and I had exceptional success using DNice's Custom picture settings.

But here we have DNice's thread in which he tries to help folks by offering them a starting point towards a better picture, and all that's generated is repeated negativity by a chosen few who feel it's their duty to continually repeat themselves with their sermon against using Dnice adivise in DNice's thread. After a few months, it gets down right old and frankly I consider it disrespectful towards Dnice's efforts. You don't see any of this perputual preaching seroms in Dnice's threads at ControlCal forum. And while I don't disregard what is said, when I look at my picture, FOR ME, it's ******** to say Dnice's calibrated picture settings will make your picture look worse. Might not make your picture look great but it's not suppose to as it's just a starting point as DNice states. And eventually after months and months of reading the same tri-weekly song & dance, I react.

And so long as I continue to follow this thread and continue sitting in on these repeat sermons, I'll probably be repeating myself again also. Just like the rest of ya'all. rolleyes.gif
post #2693 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

In my case a professional calibration even by the master Chad B did not eliminate the issue. I also had the main video board replaced to no avail.

I already told you what your problem is with the green tint, don't forget you have a ST60 not a VT60.

As you found out your ST60 is performing with-in specs as I said before you had the video board replaced.

The biggest problem you have is a lack of controls on your ST60. Saying Chad's 1211 performed with-in its specs, you would need to get a external processor like eecolor and a pro calibrator that has the meters/software to do a 21^3 LUT calibration.

There is no Green tint issue with the VT60.

ss
post #2694 of 3303
There's a problem with uneven colors on my 2-week old P50ST60. I ran D-Nice's slides for 100+ hours, then used his recommended post-break-in settings.

When first running the slides, I inspected the screen for dead pixels, cracks, and anomalies, but noticed nothing unusual. After applying D-Nice's settings, the picture clearly looks better than the defaults, but still far from perfect. The left half of the screen has a prominent greenish cast, while most of the right half has a magenta tinge. No amount of tweaking I've tried has overcome this. In fact, these color casts, especially on the left side of the screen, seem to be getting worse each day.

This is most noticeable when watching a TV signal, but the problem is still evident on all inputs and from any source material.

What would cause this? Since it seems to be getting worse, not better, I'm skeptical that further break-in will help.
post #2695 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldB View Post

There's a problem with uneven colors on my 2-week old P50ST60. I ran D-Nice's slides for 100+ hours, then used his recommended post-break-in settings.

When first running the slides, I inspected the screen for dead pixels, cracks, and anomalies, but noticed nothing unusual. After applying D-Nice's settings, the picture clearly looks better than the defaults, but still far from perfect. The left half of the screen has a prominent greenish cast, while most of the right half has a magenta tinge. No amount of tweaking I've tried has overcome this. In fact, these color casts, especially on the left side of the screen, seem to be getting worse each day.

This is most noticeable when watching a TV signal, but the problem is still evident on all inputs and from any source material.

What would cause this? Since it seems to be getting worse, not better, I'm skeptical that further break-in will help.

That's a classic screen uniformity problem. It will not get better although it probably will not get worse. It may appear to get worse but that's due to it being an annoyance.

If it's as bad as you describe and if it is still under the seller's warranty, get a replacement. Otherwise, try to get Panasonic to get you a new unit or, at least, get the panel replaced.

Larry
post #2696 of 3303
The discoloration is quite extreme and makes everything unwatchable. I can get the right side of the screen looking somewhat decent when tweaking the settings, but the left side retains a strong green cast no matter what.

It was purchased just two weeks ago from B&H Photo/Video, so it's definitely still under warranty. It just better be something Panasonic is willing to rectify.
post #2697 of 3303
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonaldB View Post

The discoloration is quite extreme and makes everything unwatchable. I can get the right side of the screen looking somewhat decent when tweaking the settings, but the left side retains a strong green cast no matter what.

It was purchased just two weeks ago from B&H Photo/Video, so it's definitely still under warranty. It just better be something Panasonic is willing to rectify.


Try dealing with B&H first before their replacement warranty expires. They have always been a stand-up company. You have plenty of time to deal with Panasonic later.

Larry
post #2698 of 3303
Wow, you sure have layered and added a lot of emotions and assumptions to what I posted. Not sure where educating people on the purpose of the slides is in anyway disrespectful to anyone.

Truth and good advice should always be welcomed, especially when done with the best of intentions, to help out those new to the high def game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Bombard View Post

Well there is truth in what you say but maybe it's just the way I look at things in this thread of DNice's. I'm a first time big screen owner, first time plasma owner, I did a lot of research beforehand so I didn't have to ask the same questions that pop up in these threads over and over again 3-5 times a week for months. I followed Dnice's advise, even went overboard with the 300 hour sildeshow and I had exceptional success using DNice's Custom picture settings.

But here we have DNice's thread in which he tries to help folks by offering them a starting point towards a better picture, and all that's generated is repeated negativity by a chosen few who feel it's their duty to continually repeat themselves with their sermon against using Dnice adivise in DNice's thread. After a few months, it gets down right old and frankly I consider it disrespectful towards Dnice's efforts. You don't see any of this perputual preaching seroms in Dnice's threads at ControlCal forum. And while I don't disregard what is said, when I look at my picture, FOR ME, it's ******** to say Dnice's calibrated picture settings will make your picture look worse. Might not make your picture look great but it's not suppose to as it's just a starting point as DNice states. And eventually after months and months of reading the same tri-weekly song & dance, I react.

And so long as I continue to follow this thread and continue sitting in on these repeat sermons, I'll probably be repeating myself again also. Just like the rest of ya'all. rolleyes.gif
post #2699 of 3303
Hello. Just had a new 65 inch ZT60 delivered yesterday and am starting the DNice slides this morning. However, I have noticed that there appear to be 16 total slides in the sideshow--12 are the color slides and then four have a tag on them that says "Cannot Read File." I just want to make sure that running those four slides will not have a negative effect or cause IR? I can't seem to find a way to skip over those four and I can't delete them from the USB card either. Any suggestions or thoughts?
post #2700 of 3303
Uptown, I wouldn't run the 4 slides. I would attempt to download another set of slides.
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