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2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread - Page 17

post #481 of 3317
Hello, im Portuguese and i will buy the 50ST60 in the next few days here in Portugal. I have 2 Questions.

D-Nice Calibration Setting only applies to the American ST60 model, or they also work fine with the European ST60?

If i use D-Nice Settings, my Image Screen will match D-Nice Image Screen, or every panel is different and my image will probably be a lot different even if we use teh same settings?

Thanks smile.gif
post #482 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmensager View Post

Hello, im Portuguese and i will buy the 50ST60 in the next few days here in Portugal. I have 2 Questions.

D-Nice Calibration Setting only applies to the American ST60 model, or they also work fine with the European ST60?

If i use D-Nice Settings, my Image Screen will match D-Nice Image Screen, or every panel is different and my image will probably be a lot different even if we use teh same settings?

Thanks smile.gif

Hi,

I think D-Nice's settings are only for NA models, I'm pretty certain..

Every panel is different, but people who follow his procedure, and use his settings, are more likely to have 'similar' results than if they didn't follow the procedure clearly outlined by D-Nice.
post #483 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkmensager View Post

Hello, im Portuguese and i will buy the 50ST60 in the next few days here in Portugal. I have 2 Questions.

D-Nice Calibration Setting only applies to the American ST60 model, or they also work fine with the European ST60?
D-Nice's settings are done with an American display. There is no reason, that I know about, that would keep you from t trying them and then deciding for yourself. There may not be an exact mapping of the settings he has posted when you try to apply them to your version of the display. I would expect that there might be differences relating to energy consumption, but I don't really know one way or the other. You may need to find a European version of D-Nice to get a good result. wink.gif
Edited by htwaits - 5/5/13 at 1:38am
post #484 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I get tired of sitting at a desk.
This is a perfect example of "to each his own". smile.gif

As you pointed out, your main interest seems to be Internet focused so bang away. As you already know, you'll have to fight IR for some time but it seems that you're taking reasonable precautions. You may need to run some 1.78:1 aspect ratio movies once in a while during your work hours just to even out the phosphors a bit. wink.gif

I spend a lot more time on the Internet than I do watching TV or shinny disks. I'm more comfortable in a good chair with the key board and mouse on the desk in front of me. It's a habit I got into back in 1984. rolleyes.gif
post #485 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcazes View Post


Yep, it was the pixel orbiter. Normal:



Thanks guys!
I have audible buzzing as well from 8 feet away on the grey and white slides, in spite of my AC running (and road noise, as I'm in a mid-rise). I'm going to have to wait until I watch some actual content to see how annoying it is, but since I ordered online my options are limited. frown.gif

Like you, I can hear the buzzing on the grey and white slides, but I've only been running slides when I'm not watching Netflix or playing PS3 so let try to help you a bit. I suggest you not worry about it! I have a 65" S64 by the way (special Costco version of S60 with the anti-reflective coating).

I came from a Samsung D6500 that I couldn't stand because of buzz so I returned it and I will say, as someone that obsesses over hearing the buzzing I can DEFINITELY live with this set. I have not heard the buzz with actual content. Sure, with zero volume, a bright image, and a keen focus on trying to hear the buzz (it's more like a hiss) I can find it. But let me ease your stress by saying it's a non-issue. I just returned my 2013 Sharp 650u for this and the perfect viewing angles, uniformity, deep blacks, and perfect motion more than make up for the buzz that I MAY be able to hear during pure white scenes (I'm guessing I've come across several of these already and buzz never came to mind).
post #486 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I would guess I had or was over, the 500 hour mark on the ST60. IR was getting kinda bad, 5 minutes and bam I had IR that was noticeable. For example, I could have the forum up, make a post, shift the window, and see IR from not only the forum, but the desktop background (which is on shuffle every 5 mins) when I moved the window around. It didn't seem so bad when I was using it a week ago. Not sure what changed, maybe higher contrast or something, who knows.

It did seem to go away after running a pixel flipper, but I never really went looking for it, just happened to see it as I shifted windows.
I agree, the IR seems to have gotten worse with the more hours I put on the TV. It took about 3 hours of running the pixel flipper and then 2 hours of watching TV for it to finally disappear.
post #487 of 3317
IR can happen at 1 hour or 100,000 hours. I now have about 2000 hours on my VT50 and IR has always happened. It is usually very minor and goes away with a few minutes of the screen wipe.
post #488 of 3317
Deleted.
post #489 of 3317
22 hours into my slide prep with a 50" ST60. It's torture to stick my new tv in a room and not watch a bluray for 100 hours!

Sadly, I do see a pixel that is black on the blue slide only. All the other slides it seems to work normally.
post #490 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmcd72 View Post

22 hours into my slide prep with a 50" ST60. It's torture to stick my new tv in a room and not watch a bluray for 100 hours!

Sadly, I do see a pixel that is black on the blue slide only. All the other slides it seems to work normally.

I say take 2 hours today and watch ONE BD. Then start up the slides again.. you gotta LiVe it UP sometimes ! cool.gif
post #491 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I agree, the IR seems to have gotten worse with the more hours I put on the TV. It took about 3 hours of running the pixel flipper and then 2 hours of watching TV for it to finally disappear.

Whatever happened to your quote saying that the ST60 is better than the GT50 in everyway? I watch channels with logos for hours on end and never have IR. I actually never have ran the pixel flipper either. I don't disagree with your statement but you can't go on saying everywhere that it outperforms the GT in everyway. Obviously it doesn't, if thats the case where you cant even watch tv without getting IR. or maybe you just have a panel more prone to IR.
post #492 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Whatever happened to your quote saying that the ST60 is better than the GT50 in everyway? I watch channels with logos for hours on end and never have IR. I actually never have ran the pixel flipper either. I don't disagree with your statement but you can't go on saying everywhere that it outperforms the GT in everyway. Obviously it doesn't, if thats the case where you cant even watch tv without getting IR. or maybe you just have a panel more prone to IR.
Plenty of posts in the GT50 forum of people who have IR. Don't make it like the GT50 is IR free.
post #493 of 3317
Can you folks with IR problems please state if you see it during normal viewing, or if you are doing something unusual like playing slides in order to see the IR?

If IR can come and go unseen, while normal viewing is taking place, will there be any noise in a forest if a tree falls and no one is there? wink.gif
post #494 of 3317
When my wife watches something on GMC, when I change the channel I can still see the logo. I don't usually wait for it to go away on its on, I just go ahead and run the scrolling bar. It only takes a few minutes to go away.
post #495 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

When my wife watches something on GMC, when I change the channel I can still see the logo. I don't usually wait for it to go away on its on, I just go ahead and run the scrolling bar. It only takes a few minutes to go away.
It would be interesting to know how long it would take to disappear if you just watched something that kept you interested.
post #496 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Can you folks with IR problems please state if you see it during normal viewing, or if you are doing something unusual like playing slides in order to see the IR?

If IR can come and go unseen, while normal viewing is taking place, will there be any noise in a forest if a tree falls and no one is there? wink.gif
I can see the Fox Sports logo when there are light colors on that part of the screen.
post #497 of 3317
Day to day, IR is going to be most problematic when the TV is switched on. If the first thing you watch is a source with something static, then chances are, that is going to be what sticks and not the stuff that you watch later that day/evening.
I tend to do my gaming on my GT50 later in the evening when the TV has already been on for two or more hours. I've never had long term IR from any game and some I've even played in 6 hour sessions with a static HUD.
However, the 6pm news channels have given me several months of stubborn IR (one took four months to fade and I never returned to that channel over that period). Sure enough, the 6pm news was the first thing I'd start watch after the TV had been off for 18 hours.

If you want to run a little experiement, then for a week, run the scrolling bar first for 30 minutes before you start watching your usual sources. Then for a week, just watch them as normal. I have a hunch that you won't have much stubborn IR when you run the scroll bar (or something equivalent) first.
post #498 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Can you folks with IR problems please state if you see it during normal viewing, or if you are doing something unusual like playing slides in order to see the IR?

If IR can come and go unseen, while normal viewing is taking place, will there be any noise in a forest if a tree falls and no one is there? wink.gif
I can see the Fox Sports logo when there are light colors on that part of the screen.
Thanks. Would an unprompted stranger see it if the subject matter was interesting?

It wonder how long the Fox Sports logo would be visible to you, if you played something like Pixar movies instead of Fox Spots. I watch a lot of Fox Sports during the NFL season, and it would be upsetting to me if their logo showed up after the games were over.
post #499 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Day to day, IR is going to be most problematic when the TV is switched on.
That's an interesting observation. Here is a two post on IR theory that makes sense to me.

First Post

Second Post

For what it's worth, I've watched Fox Sports NFL football and never noticed their logo after a three and a half hour game. The posts I've linked to could be an explanation for my experience. There have probably been times when I watched an NFL double header on Fox Sports with the same outcome.
post #500 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

That's an interesting observation. Here is a two post on IR theory that makes sense to me.

First Post

That explanation of mgo sputtering is precisely what I was experiencing. White opaque station logos that resulted in a dark after-image that was very easy to see on a white background.

My viewing habits were very consistent (after an intial break-in period with slides). I'd start the TV at 6pm and watch the news with white opaque logo for an hour (with ad breaks in between at least every 10 minutes). I'd then either watch other stations, watch a movie, or play a game before turning it off for the night. I followed this up till around 750 hours when I noticed the station logo shadowed on the white of the Xbox dashboard. I did all the usual things to remove it, but nothing had any impact, so I made the decision (Nov last year) to abandon that channel and watch a different news channel, which also features an opaque white station logo, but located on the opposite corner of the screen. My habits remained consistent and I watched the new channel first thing at 6pm and continued to observe the old logo IR.
In a relatively short period of time, I noticed that the new logo was also leaving IR and so I made the decision to stop watching it too and to do my news watching on the old V10.

Neither of those broadcasts have graced my GT50 this year. As of about 3 weeks ago, there has been no visible sign of the original station IR and the second one is practically gone (at least difficult to see).
I'm giving serious consideration to watching the original channel again, but with an initial warmup period first.
The only consideration I have to be mindful of is that this may simply have been (or is) a period where the panel is going through a phase and that phase has ended. The panel certainly didn't start out this way, so I have to consider that it could stop behaving this way as easily as it started.

But considering the many times in the last 6 months that I've played a single game for several weeks for a 30-90 minute session every night and not seen any longterm IR, I think that early preventative measures against IR are better than reactive ones.
post #501 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

That's an interesting observation. Here is a two post on IR theory that makes sense to me.

First Post

That explanation of mgo sputtering is precisely what I was experiencing.
Thanks for the additional information. I watch Fox Sports only during the NFL season so it's no where near as repetitive as your news channels.

I haven't watched TV news now for several years. We were visiting a relative last night and they left the news on after we watched a Blu-ray movie. WoW. eek.gif
I can live without that. One deadly situation after another, and it was the local news.
post #502 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Plenty of posts in the GT50 forum of people who have IR. Don't make it like the GT50 is IR free.

+1

I got IR on my GT50 pretty easily, but it was very rarely noticeable with normal content.
post #503 of 3317
So when I get my new plasma delivered should I immediately run slides to check for screen uniformity issues and dead pixels before signing off on it? Is this smart to do or am I just opening up myself to seeing something I normally wouldn't and tormenting myself?

The reason I ask is because I am interested in a 60"ST60 and I have heard that many ST60 panels have a very faint vertical line on the right side but it isn't visible with normal content only slides.
post #504 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

This procedure is NOT designed nor recommended to be used as Break-in, Image Retention and/or Burn-in prevention.*****[/I]

Does D-nice just say this as a precautionary thing or is that statement fully true? Running this for 100 hours (or even longer) won't help "break in" the phosphors or whatever?

What did/do you guys do AFTER running these slides to help break in the TV?

I'm planning on doing a lot of PC gaming on this and want to make sure I take the right steps
Run Slides for 100 hours ---> Calibrate TV using his settings ---> ??????????? break in process ---> ready for gaming

What do I do in the break in process?

Thx guys
post #505 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamAgain2 View Post

Does D-nice just say this as a precautionary thing or is that statement fully true? Running this for 100 hours (or even longer) won't help "break in" the phosphors or whatever?

What did/do you guys do AFTER running these slides to help break in the TV?

I'm planning on doing a lot of PC gaming on this and want to make sure I take the right steps
Run Slides for 100 hours ---> Calibrate TV using his settings ---> ??????????? break in process ---> ready for gaming

What do I do in the break in process?

Thx guys

It's gospel tongue.gif

You should run slides for at least the first 100 hours of use, 150-200 even if you want.. That's more than a week though ..

Than be careful at first with extended viewing. I would run the pixel flipper on the Disney WOW BD overnight like once a month, or maybe even more often depending on how much IR you actually get.
post #506 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blu_One View Post

It's gospel tongue.gif

You should run slides for at least the first 100 hours of use, 150-200 even if you want.. That's more than a week though ..

Than be careful at first with extended viewing. I would run the pixel flipper on the Disney WOW BD overnight like once a month, or maybe even more often depending on how much IR you actually get.


I don't get why people have such difficulty understanding the logic behind the aging/calibration method that D-Nice uses. There is nothing magical about it.

1) He takes a unit out of the box and lets in run with the slides for a predetermined time -- 100 hours for the 2013 models. This ages the phosphors. The phosphor output decays in an inverse exponential manner and each phosphor (R, G, and B) decays at a different rate. The maximum rate of decay is during the first 100 or so hours.

2) He then does a calibration on that set and posts the results.

So, if you copy his aging procedure and then copy his settings, theoretically with all else being equal his setting should be the optimum for your unit. Since the phosphors continue to age after the initial 100 hours, if his aging method was not used his settings will never be right for your TV even if you view mixed content for a long period of time -- theoretically again, of course.

In 2009, I bought two Panasonic X1 models, a 42 and a 50 inch. I aged the 50 inch according to his instructions and used the 42 inch normally without any slides at all. After exactly the initial required 120 hours aging period on the 50 inch, I entered his settings. I entered the setting on the 42 inch also after about 120+ hours. I then used my meters to see how well the results were. The 50 inch was very good. The results for the 42 were much worse. The thread for the 2009 models is here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1128487/the-official-panasonic-12g-settings-issues-thread#post_16013999


N,B. I did not check the performance of the units before aging them since this would have violated the process so I do not know how they were right out of the box.


And please do not start arguing with me about this. I have only explained in very non-technical terms the methodology used by D-Nice. If you have a problem with it, take it up with him.


Larry
Edited by LarryInRI - 5/5/13 at 9:31pm
post #507 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I don't get why people have such difficulty understanding the logic behind the aging/calibration method that D-Nice uses. There is nothing magical about it.

1) He takes a unit out of the box and lets in run with the slides for a predetermined time -- 100 hours for the 2013 models. This ages the phosphors. The phosphor output decays in an inverse exponential manner and each phosphor (R, G, and B) decays at a different rate. The maximum rate of decay is during the first 100 or so hours.

2) He then does a calibration on that set and posts the results.

So, if you copy his aging procedure and then copy his settings, theoretically with all else being equal his setting should be the optimum for your unit. Since the phosphors continue to age after the initial 100 hours, if his aging method was not used his settings will never be right for your TV even if you view mixed content for a long period of time -- theoretically again, of course.

In 2009, I bought two Panasonic X1 models, a 42 and a 50 inch. I aged the 50 inch according to his instructions and used the 42 inch normally without any slides at all. After exactly the initial required 120 hours aging period on the 50 inch, I entered his settings. I entered the setting on the 42 inch also after about 120+ hours. I then used my meters to see how well the results were. The 50 inch was very good. The results for the 42 were much worse. The thread for the 2009 models is here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1128487/the-official-panasonic-12g-settings-issues-thread#post_16013999


N,B. I did not check the performance of the units before aging them since this would have violated the process so I do not know how they were right out of the box.


And please do not start arguing with me about this. I have only explained in very non-technical terms the methodology used by D-Nice. If you have a problem with it, take it up with him.


Larry

No problem at all over here.. moving on
post #508 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

So, if you copy his aging procedure and then copy his settings, theoretically with all else being equal his setting should be the optimum for your unit.

Larry
Just to add one tiny tiny point that's been made by D-Nice many times. wink.gif

The results will be close to the actual display he calibrated. Due to Pioneer's outstanding quality control, D-Nice estimated that it would be within five percent. I don't know what the variation would be with lesser quality control. In any case, he has always pointed out that using his settings is in no way a replacement for a good quality professional calibration.

D-Nice is very serious about the disclaimers that he makes at the top of his first post associated with his procedure.
Edited by htwaits - 5/6/13 at 12:06am
post #509 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Plenty of posts in the GT50 forum of people who have IR. Don't make it like the GT50 is IR free.

Never claimed it was, I'm saying I have been very lucky with mine. The only IR I've had was from using the menu the first two weeks but never with logos. It has been proven by many owners here that it is a lottery with IR on panels, some get it bad some don't. It's too bad its still a case for some.I was just stating what you said by praising the ST60 saying it's superior in everyway to the GT50 just by reading what other people say, until you can't even watch a channel with logos. I guess 2012-2013 models are still pretty much the same in that regard. Don't get me wrong, I wish IR wasn't so bad for people that get it. The ST60 is an awesome tv, bang for buck.
post #510 of 3317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Never claimed it was, I'm saying I have been very lucky with mine. The only IR I've had was from using the menu the first two weeks but never with logos. It has been proven by many owners here that it is a lottery with IR on panels, some get it bad some don't. It's too bad its still a case for some.I was just stating what you said by praising the ST60 saying it's superior in everyway to the GT50 just by reading what other people say, until you can't even watch a channel with logos. I guess 2012-2013 models are still pretty much the same in that regard. Don't get me wrong, I wish IR wasn't so bad for people that get it. The ST60 is an awesome tv, bang for buck.
But according to every review out there, the ST60 is superior to the GT50. This is not something I just made off the top of my head.

If someone was to go out today and buy a TV, there really is no reason to buy a GT50 over an ST60 unless you were getting a crazy deal on the GT50 making it much less then the ST60. Would you argue that point and if yes, backing it up with what?

Oh, and if you are going to rate TV's based on IR then I guess Samsung makes the best Plasma's around, followed by LG maybe. Poor Panasonic, they really need to step up their plasma game.
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