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2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread - Page 23

post #661 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

I don't think you're ever going to find these things out, and I don't think you should conclude that it is all necessary or beneficial to you if you're not hiring D-Nice. It makes sense for him to have a standard way for his customers to age their TV's phosphors before he does a calibration for them, so they don't have to hire him to do another later calibration. And he tells us what his procedure is, and that it is more likely you'll get results approaching his if you follow his procedure. That's all there is.
The slides and procedure have absolutely nothing to do with hiring DNice. He posts this procedure every year as a courtesy. Nothing more.
And while it is not necessary many people have found the procedure beneficial if done properly.
post #662 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonisgreen View Post

Yes, been to many games. Not expecting pure white.. just a brighter white. A better example is when a commercial is on that uses a white background (like the apple commercials), it is a dull greyish/white.

The other thing that may give you peace of mind is that when you first click on "slideshow/SD". You can see hat when the box is smaller it is "white". So whites should appears white when part of picture....or a smaller white section....
post #663 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

At the risk of sounding obnoxious,

1. Who is D-Nice? Is he a professional calibrator, a Panasonic employee, or just some guy that has a good rep on the message boards?

2. Exactly how did he (or anyone else) come to the conclusion that this entire process was optimal? And when I say process I mean not only the 100 hours and slides, but also how were the 12 colors of the slides known to be beneficial, how did the 100 hours come to be, and why would these slides not be helpful if we wanted to use different settings?

I just never read a link between this process and how it was derived, so I just want to make sure this is all necessary or at least more beneficial to your set than just plugging it in and watching away at whatever settings you want. For me, I would not get a custom calibration as they are pricey and I am generally happy with Cnet or other recommended settings (potentially D-Nice's when I finally can use them).

Sorry to sound like an ass, I just feel the answers to these questions are necessary to a thread like this.

1) As already explained a highly respected pro calibrator smile.gif....
2) You are getitng into the science of it now wink.gif I believe the slides are chosen due to the RGB nature of the PDP pixel (I could be wrong)....His method is a fine tuned one....The 1st 100-150 hours is usually when the phosphers ahve the most decay (I think) thus when you get past this point the "shift" in measurements during calibration is much less than it is during that initial time period thus being "safer" bet that the setting will remain optimal for a longer period of time. Taking out panel variance from what I know the reason this is done is to start everyone on the same "plane" If someone follows his instructions to the T then they are much mroe likely to see similar results than if they choose to do something different. I believe he stated that the variance comes down to something like 5% at the shootout meaning you will be MUCH closer to a set that has been calibrated by him than another random setting...Nothing will replace a true pro calibration on your set however...

The aaddition of the 300 hours this year however was due to the shift that was seen after the 150hour mark on the ST60 he owns.....
Im going off memory for some of the above so it may be off...

benificial is up to the individual person however. you dont need to follow his steps to use his settings, just dont expect the same results, its the same thing for using other peoples settings on top of panel variance, unless you aged the set the same you are adding other variances that will skew the results the two of you will get.....
Edited by Ph8te - 5/14/13 at 9:58am
post #664 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

1) As already explaing a highly respected pro calibrator....
2) You are getitng into the science of it now wink.gif I believe the slides are chosen due to the RGB nature of the PDP pixel (I could be wrong)....His method is a fine tuned one....The 1st 100-150 hours is usually when the phosphers ahve the most decay (I think) thus when you get past this point the "shift" in measurements during calibration is much less than it is during that initial time period thus being "safer" bet that the setting will remain optimal for a longer period of time. Taking out panel variance from what I know the reason this is done is to start everyone on the same "plane" If someone follows his instructions to the T then they are much mroe likely to see similar results than if they choose to do something different. I believe he stated that the variance comes down to something like 5% at the shootout meaning you will be MUCH closer to a set that has been calibrated by him than another random setting...Nothing will replace a true pro calibration on your set however...

The aaddition of the 300 hours this year however was due to the shift that was seen after the 150hour mark on the ST60 he owns.....
Im going off memory for some of the above so it may be off...

benificial is up to the individual person however. you dont need to follow his steps to use his settings, just dont expect the same results, its the same thing for using other peoples settings on top of panel variance, unless you aged the set the same you are adding other variances that will skew the results the two of you will get.....

That explains so much! I would be curious to know if he indeed updated his settings after 150 hours, or wished that he had run the slides longer to obtain a truer picture (not sure if "truer" is the correct word for this application, but I think you know what I am implying).
post #665 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

That explains so much! I would be curious to know if he indeed updated his settings after 150 hours, or wished that he had run the slides longer to obtain a truer picture (not sure if "truer" is the correct word for this application, but I think you know what I am implying).

Only he knows.
post #666 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

That explains so much! I would be curious to know if he indeed updated his settings after 150 hours, or wished that he had run the slides longer to obtain a truer picture (not sure if "truer" is the correct word for this application, but I think you know what I am implying).

He put out the recommendation to increase break in to 300 hours, but I think (IMO) hes holding off on putting it into the process until further evaluation is done...

for instance if the shift happens again than it wouldnt matter if 100 or 300 hours is done...

He couldnt see this coming since this was not the case with the 50 series but was an issue with the 10-30 series ( I think)......
These shifts as of yet though I dont think will be noticed unless you are a calibrator and a calibrated set....If you just turn on your TV and adjsut the settings you may not be affected by this.....
post #667 of 3315
hello, my name's don or dbrasco is my online name for multiplayer and posting

I'm a n00b here on AVS. I kind of stumbled upon this site while looking for calibrated settings for the 55VT60. I have no idea how to read a before and after calibration chart. I mean I can look at it and say 'o.k,...on the after chart, the R,G,B line's are a lot straighter, but what did he set his settings at to make the line straight?" I've had my vt60 for 10 day's now and i'm wondering where the heck can I find the best settings for my 55vt60? I've tried D'nice's setting's but that was for the st60, and i'm not sure if I should be using them to get the best PQ for the 55vt60 model. any suggestion's would be very much appreciated. thank's
Edited by dBrasco - 5/14/13 at 1:43pm
post #668 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

He put out the recommendation to increase break in to 300 hours, but I think (IMO) hes holding off on putting it into the process until further evaluation is done...

for instance if the shift happens again than it wouldnt matter if 100 or 300 hours is done...

He couldnt see this coming since this was not the case with the 50 series but was an issue with the 10-30 series ( I think)......
These shifts as of yet though I dont think will be noticed unless you are a calibrator and a calibrated set....If you just turn on your TV and adjsut the settings you may not be affected by this.....

Gotcha. So for all intents are purposes, 100 hours is going to do the trick most likely for the average Joe?
post #669 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post


Sorry to sound like an ass, I just feel the answers to these questions are necessary to a thread like this.
You can check on D-Nice's references using post number two in the thread linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post. It's the "Customer's" thread.

D-Nice has shared his work hear at AVS at least since the Pioneer Elite days. He acquires a new model display and calibrates it. Then he starts a "settings" thread that includes the results of his work on that particular display. He also includes an exact description of the preparation work that he did right out of the box. He did that so that people using his settings would be able to mimic that exact procedure leading up to the calibration.

If anyone thinks it's wise to calibrate a new display right out of the box, I haven't met them.

As for his reputation as a calibrator, he was one of the four calibrators participating in last week's shoot out.

D-Nice has stated many times that using his settings is only a starting point for further adjustments and that they are not a substitute for a quality professional calibration.

There is nothing in your questions that would make me think you are an ass, but I have to agree with you evaluation that the way you ask them does make you sound like an ass. biggrin.gif

The choice seems to be yours. wink.gif

EDIT: After reading the rest of your posts today, I now disagree with your evaluation. wink.gif
Edited by htwaits - 5/14/13 at 1:10pm
post #670 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

I just never read a link between this process and how it was derived, so I just want to make sure this is all necessary or at least more beneficial to your set than just plugging it in and watching away at whatever settings you want.
I don't think you're ever going to find these things out, and I don't think you should conclude that it is all necessary or beneficial to you if you're not hiring D-Nice. It makes sense for him to have a standard way for his customers to age their TV's phosphors before he does a calibration for them, so they don't have to hire him to do another later calibration. And he tells us what his procedure is, and that it is more likely you'll get results approaching his if you follow his procedure. That's all there is.
D-Nice has no, I repeat NO, procedure for sets that he is going to calibrate. You are mixing up the procedure for getting the most out of his posted settings for a given display model.
post #671 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post


The aaddition of the 300 hours this year however was due to the shift that was seen after the 150hour mark on the ST60 he owns.....
Just to clarify hopefully, my take is that D-Nice now thinks a ST60 that's going to be calibrated should have three hundred or more hours on it. As for his settings, he may not think they are as good as he expected them to be because of what he observed after the three hundred hour mark. That sounds like something D-Nice may comment on later. I certainly can't.
post #672 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Just to clarify hopefully, my take is that D-Nice now thinks a ST60 that's going to be calibrated should have three hundred or more hours on it. As for his settings, he may not think they are as good as he expected them to be because of what he observed after the three hundred hour mark. That sounds like something D-Nice may comment on later. I certainly can't.

It will be D-Nice to hear his response wink.gif
post #673 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Just to clarify hopefully, my take is that D-Nice now thinks a ST60 that's going to be calibrated should have three hundred or more hours on it. As for his settings, he may not think they are as good as he expected them to be because of what he observed after the three hundred hour mark. That sounds like something D-Nice may comment on later. I certainly can't.

It will be D-Nice to hear his response wink.gif
On thing is for sure, he won't speculate or comment until he has enough information to be confident that he has the right information.

I know the strange series of events that led to my user name. I have no idea how D-Nice chose his.
post #674 of 3315
My friend and I ran the WOW BD after over 100 hours with D-Nice settings.

This is what we came up with:

Picture
Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 55
Brightness: +5
Color: 55
Tint: -2
Sharpness: 20
Color Temp: Warm2
Vivid Color: Off
C.A.T.S: Off
Video NR: Off
MPEG NR: Off
Motion Smoother: Off
All other settings were identical to what D-Nice has shared.

My 50ST60 is in a dimly lit studio apartment with no natural light.
These settings look good, but they are slightly dark.
I'd appreciate feedback.

Thank You.
post #675 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockphantom View Post

My friend and I ran the WOW BD after over 100 hours with D-Nice settings.

This is what we came up with:

Picture
Picture Mode: Custom
Contrast: 55
Brightness: +5
Color: 55
Tint: -2
Sharpness: 20
Color Temp: Warm2
Vivid Color: Off
C.A.T.S: Off
Video NR: Off
MPEG NR: Off
Motion Smoother: Off
All other settings were identical to what D-Nice has shared.

My 50ST60 is in a dimly lit studio apartment with no natural light.
These settings look good, but they are slightly dark.
I'd appreciate feedback.

Thank You.


The contrast setting is very low color of 55 seems a little high as well, by changing the tint and the color you have definitely impacted the color accuracy, you would be better off zeroing out the other settings if you are going to take this approach imo
post #676 of 3315
Hi everyone. I'm new to posting here but have been visiting the site for a while now. I have a small question and I'm hoping someone could help me out and clarify it.

I just picked up an ST60 and ran the slides for the first 100 hours. I am hearing about 300 hours now being the recommended prep time. At this point I have put on another 20 hours or so of regular viewing on it with D-Nice's settings and I am very impressed with the picture quality.

Can anyone tell me if I should continue running the slides for another 200 hours or is the 300 hours being suggested for other purposes such as professional calibration?
post #677 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax1 View Post

Hi everyone. I'm new to posting here but have been visiting the site for a while now. I have a small question and I'm hoping someone could help me out and clarify it.

I just picked up an ST60 and ran the slides for the first 100 hours. I am hearing about 300 hours now being the recommended prep time. At this point I have put on another 20 hours or so of regular viewing on it with D-Nice's settings and I am very impressed with the picture quality.

Can anyone tell me if I should continue running the slides for another 200 hours or is the 300 hours being suggested for other purposes such as professional calibration?

At this point just watch it as long as you have the hours on it before it is calibrated you will be all set .. If you are in a rush go ahead with the slides .. But other than that enjoy your set
post #678 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax1 View Post

I just picked up an ST60 and ran the slides for the first 100 hours. I am hearing about 300 hours now being the recommended prep time. At this point I have put on another 20 hours or so of regular viewing on it with D-Nice's settings and I am very impressed with the picture quality.

Can anyone tell me if I should continue running the slides for another 200 hours or is the 300 hours being suggested for other purposes such as professional calibration?
The only reason to use the slides now would be if you had scheduled a professional calibration and you wanted to be sure to have more than 300 hours on your display before the work was going to be done. For now, what you're doing is fine. In your situation I would keep track of this thread to see if D-Nice comments about it in the future.

Enjoy. smile.gif
post #679 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonThomasDesigns View Post

At this point just watch it as long as you have the hours on it before it is calibrated you will be all set .. If you are in a rush go ahead with the slides .. But other than that enjoy your set

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

The only reason to use the slides now would be if you had scheduled a professional calibration and you wanted to be sure to have more than 300 hours on your display before the work was going to be done. For now, what you're doing is fine. In your situation I would keep track of this thread to see if D-Nice comments about it in the future.

Enjoy. smile.gif


Thanks guys. Much appreciated. smile.gif
post #680 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

The contrast setting is very low color of 55 seems a little high as well, by changing the tint and the color you have definitely impacted the color accuracy, you would be better off zeroing out the other settings if you are going to take this approach imo
Judging from my own experiments, the Contrast of 55 does seem awfully low and Color of 55 does seem awfully high. But I don't see why zeroing out other settings would be helpful.

For Contrast and Brightness, the usual informal approach is to get the Contrast as high as you can without crushing whites and Brightness as low as you can, without crushing blacks. By "crushing", I mean making small gradations of brightness in the picture impossible to distinguish. So for Contrast, find a scene with some specular highlights, turn up the Contrast until the highlights start to "white out" and get too large in area (meaning that whites are getting crushed), then back off the adjustment until the area occupied by the highlight is at its smallest.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be following the procedure laid out by WOW, but just that if you're suspicious that you might not be getting good results, there is another approach you can use to check your results.

On reducing the Color level, my own test for when color is too high is when people's faces have a greenish-orange cast. So, a way to approach getting the best level, similar to the above, is to get Color as high as you can while avoiding this picture defect. Increase Color until you see the greenish-orange, then back it off. Also, note the advice that Rich Harkness gives, "My approach is to use the over-all Color control to start notching back the color level, in order to slightly desaturate the image," and his other remarks in his Steaming Rat thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/261309/steaming-rat-or-richs-method-for-achieving-a-more-realistic-image/0_60.

On my st60, I get the best color with a value of 41 (with most other values like D-Nice's).
post #681 of 3315
Instead of starting a new thread at first I thought I would ask this in this thread. I will delete and move if I do not get any answers.

I have the 60ST60, I am using Cnet settings and for the most part things are ok, I had an issue with black clipping so I decided to get the WOW disk. This is where the troubles started. I have two issues and I am not sure if its the Blu ray player, cable or TV. I doubt the cable because I tried 6 different high speed cables and I tried plugging directly in the TV HDIM (all three ports) with the same issue.

The first issue is that I cannot calibrate the contrast using the disk, I have used both the basic and the advanced, the basic for those that don’t know has two gray bars about 4 inches long on the left and right side of the screen mid way up, they are horizontal bars. The intention is to adjust the contrast until you see the vertical bands on the right from top to bottom through the horizontal bar.. No matter what I do I cannot see ANY vertical bars on the right, For those who know the WOW disk, the bars will flash briefly to show you where they are (to prevent your eyes from fatigue)The bars do flash so I know they are there.

To make the issue brief, I can not see any bars on the contrast adjustment page no matter what I try I have gone from 0-100 and I get only a slight gray bar on the left. Ive adjusted the brightness, gamma etc... NOTHING makes a difference.

What would cause this? The contrast makes a very noticeable difference when adjusted in regular content.


The second issue is that the pixel flipper doesn’t work either. When I start it is will flip the whole screen for a split second, but it will then only flip a small portion of the screen, its like a square that moves all over the screen slowly at first the box is about 10 inches square but it shrinks to about 2 or 3 inches. it will slowly work its way up to the top of the screen and move from left to right.

The rest of the screen has the noise pattern its just not moving.

Are these two related? could this be the bluray player? or the TV?

I adjusted the format to all of the choices, same thing, I have used pixel direct on and off are the same, I have changed the HDMI content.... I changed everything and nothing fixes either problem..

anyone have any ideas?
post #682 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywould View Post

Instead of starting a new thread at first I thought I would ask this in this thread. I will delete and move if I do not get any answers.

I have the 60ST60, I am using Cnet settings and for the most part things are ok, I had an issue with black clipping so I decided to get the WOW disk. This is where the troubles started. I have two issues and I am not sure if its the Blu ray player, cable or TV. I doubt the cable because I tried 6 different high speed cables and I tried plugging directly in the TV HDIM (all three ports) with the same issue.

The first issue is that I cannot calibrate the contrast using the disk, I have used both the basic and the advanced, the basic for those that don’t know has two gray bars about 4 inches long on the left and right side of the screen mid way up, they are horizontal bars. The intention is to adjust the contrast until you see the vertical bands on the right from top to bottom through the horizontal bar.. No matter what I do I cannot see ANY vertical bars on the right, For those who know the WOW disk, the bars will flash briefly to show you where they are (to prevent your eyes from fatigue)The bars do flash so I know they are there.

To make the issue brief, I can not see any bars on the contrast adjustment page no matter what I try I have gone from 0-100 and I get only a slight gray bar on the left. Ive adjusted the brightness, gamma etc... NOTHING makes a difference.

What would cause this? The contrast makes a very noticeable difference when adjusted in regular content.


The second issue is that the pixel flipper doesn’t work either. When I start it is will flip the whole screen for a split second, but it will then only flip a small portion of the screen, its like a square that moves all over the screen slowly at first the box is about 10 inches square but it shrinks to about 2 or 3 inches. it will slowly work its way up to the top of the screen and move from left to right.

The rest of the screen has the noise pattern its just not moving.

Are these two related? could this be the bluray player? or the TV?

I adjusted the format to all of the choices, same thing, I have used pixel direct on and off are the same, I have changed the HDMI content.... I changed everything and nothing fixes either problem..

anyone have any ideas?

Post some pics
post #683 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

Post some pics

I will have to wait until I get home tonight to take a vid of the picel flipper issue but here is what the contrast looks like on my set. I also have a pic of what it should look like (or close to it.)




CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 100

The top pic is what my TV looks like. the bottom is close to what it should look like.. I can not make the lines visible at any setting.
Edited by Heywould - 5/15/13 at 7:32am
post #684 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywould View Post

I will have to wait until I get home tonight to take a vid of the picel flipper issue but here is what the contrast looks like on my set. I also have a pic of what it should look like (or close to it.)


CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 100

I know generally the contrast portion dies not work with this type of tv, plasma just isn't bright enough to make lines disappear just set it between 79-88 to whatever looks pleasing to you.

Pixel flipper thing is weird it should be full screen "colored snow"
post #685 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggweeziehd View Post

I know generally the contrast portion dies not work with this type of tv, plasma just isn't bright enough to make lines disappear just set it between 79-88 to whatever looks pleasing to you.

Pixel flipper thing is weird it should be full screen "colored snow"

the pixel flipper is full screen colored snow but for 1/3 of a second the full screen will flicker like it should, it will then stop and only a small square portion continues to flip. that small portion will move around the screen, as its moves it shrinks until the flipping portion is about 3 inches, it will continue to move though.


On the contrast, The bottom pic is what it should look like. The issue is that the contrast is too high and washes out the gray bands. its not that I cant make them blend in, I cant make them visible is my issue.....can anyone here that has the WOW disk tell me if they have the same issue as I show in the above pictures?
post #686 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heywould View Post

the pixel flipper is full screen colored snow but for 1/3 of a second the full screen will flicker like it should, it will then stop and only a small square portion continues to flip. that small portion will move around the screen, as its moves it shrinks until the flipping portion is about 3 inches, it will continue to move though.


On the contrast, The bottom pic is what it should look like. The issue is that the contrast is too high and washes out the gray bands. its not that I cant make them blend in, I cant make them visible is my issue.....can anyone here that has the WOW disk tell me if they have the same issue as I show in the above pictures?

Wow both of those are incredibly opposite of what they are suppose to do idk what's up... Anyone else have a clue???
post #687 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

Judging from my own experiments, the Contrast of 55 does seem awfully low and Color of 55 does seem awfully high. But I don't see why zeroing out other settings would be helpful.

For Contrast and Brightness, the usual informal approach is to get the Contrast as high as you can without crushing whites and Brightness as low as you can, without crushing blacks. By "crushing", I mean making small gradations of brightness in the picture impossible to distinguish. So for Contrast, find a scene with some specular highlights, turn up the Contrast until the highlights start to "white out" and get too large in area (meaning that whites are getting crushed), then back off the adjustment until the area occupied by the highlight is at its smallest.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't be following the procedure laid out by WOW, but just that if you're suspicious that you might not be getting good results, there is another approach you can use to check your results.

On reducing the Color level, my own test for when color is too high is when people's faces have a greenish-orange cast. So, a way to approach getting the best level, similar to the above, is to get Color as high as you can while avoiding this picture defect. Increase Color until you see the greenish-orange, then back it off. Also, note the advice that Rich Harkness gives, "My approach is to use the over-all Color control to start notching back the color level, in order to slightly desaturate the image," and his other remarks in his Steaming Rat thread here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/261309/steaming-rat-or-richs-method-for-achieving-a-more-realistic-image/0_60.

On my st60, I get the best color with a value of 41 (with most other values like D-Nice's).

I meant the other settings if he is deviating that much from dnice's settings he better off with a zero'd out white balance and gamma
post #688 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I meant the other settings if he is deviating that much from dnice's settings he better off with a zero'd out white balance and gamma
But why would he be better off? What's your reasoning?
post #689 of 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

But why would he be better off? What's your reasoning?

Every setting in a cal effects every other setting so if you are experimenting you are changing alot of parameters of the calibration, its a crapshoot at best anyway no matters who's setting you are using because of panel variance.
post #690 of 3315
Greetings

I'm trying to run the 12 slide burn-in. I have copied the 12 images to a formatted SD card but there seems to be a "copy" of unreadable files which the panel indicates as unreadable. I'm using OSX for the file copy. I've dug around the menus a bit but can't find a way to unselect these unreadable files. I don't want to run the slideshow until I get a clean set of images. Anyone run into this issue?

thanks
JohnG
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