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New Canon HF G30! - Page 5

post #121 of 195
Frank, I can wifi control my XA20 only through the camera's adhoc connection it creates... Do you know if there is a way for the cam to join my home wifi router, and then control it through that?
post #122 of 195
I did not attempt to have it join the network. What I did was connect it to a computer wirelessly and then I logged into that computer via the wired network using UltraVNC. I also have the i-teleport server running on it to connect using my iphones and Ipads.
What happens is that the webbrowser on the computer is only connected to the camera and the VNC programs are using the wired network which I access over the internet.
post #123 of 195
Thanks for the reply, that's similar to what I'd ended up doing


I have an XA20, which is essentially an HFG30. I can confirm that at this stage there is no rattle in the handle that seemed to bug the XA10 (I never used one). The only sounds it makes are the battery flopping around when I violently shake it!

5G wifi in my home was much faster than 2.4G. I couldn't stream 35mbps on 2.4g but switched to 5 and it breezed along in media player on the PC

The stabilisation is amazing, in particular while walking, even compared to the HF G10.


Here is a fantastic link, that shows the HF G30 obliterating the Panasonic 900 in low light.
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testbilder/Panasonic/Panasonic-HC-X-900-M.html
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testbilder/Canon/Canon-Legria-HF-G-30.html

look at the pics of the doll and flowers in particular... need I say more lol

It would be interesting to see the Panny 920 on that site smile.gif

EDIT: stop press they do its the 929 which I think is the German 920? which the doll seems a bit sharper frown.gif
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testbilder/Panasonic/Panasonic-HC-X-929.html

there is a wealth of info on that site until English reviews come in smile.gif
Edited by bigjezza - 7/12/13 at 7:09am
post #124 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjezza View Post

Here is a fantastic link, that shows the HF G30 obliterating the Panasonic 900 in low light.
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testbilder/Panasonic/Panasonic-HC-X-900-M.html
http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testbilder/Canon/Canon-Legria-HF-G-30.html

look at the pics of the doll and flowers in particular... need I say more lol
Oh, ho. No obliteration here. The Canon is reddish, the Pana is greeninsh, so what. Detail-wise I don't see a lot of difference. But Canon's encoding sucks ass, which is very surprising and disturbing. Canon always have been praised for quality encoding, its HDV camcorders are considered the best in the business (well, there were only two other competitors, but still). Mosquito noise around hair is horrible. This is 2006 all over again. We saw the same problems on earlier shots of a test table with mosquito noise around numbers. This is not what I expected from Canon. Canon screwed up DV mode in the HV40, they released a fix for this relatively quick. I hope they will fix this ugly noise soon, or they will lose customers.

The Pana looks awesome on these shots.
post #125 of 195
I have to say the HC-X920 looks pretty damn good in those shots. My main issue is the lack of a wide view . I'm now tempted to try it out to go alongside my XA20 to determine what to keep...
post #126 of 195
They have test videos here http://www.videoaktiv.de/Testvideos/Canon/ to download for the Canon, but not the Panasonic x929. Its interesting to note that the sample for the Canon isn't its highest bitrate, MP4 35MBps, but instead AVCHD 28MBps.

I've done some a quick comparison with Media Info on AVCHD 28mbps and MP4 35MBps, they seem to be to my untrained eye the same codec, same gop length, just differing containers and bitrates.

Here's hoping the bump to 35mbps reduces those encoding artifacts! An extra 25% data per second might do that, or is it just wisful thinking?

Just a side note, I've noticed on the XA20 there is no option for auto power off! Wahhh!
post #127 of 195
Both AVCHD and MP4 use the H.264 video codec so the differences between the two formats will be minimal. In my tests, the 35Mbps 60p MP4 footage from the G30 is slightly better at preserving highlights than the 28Mbps 60p AVCHD footage. Detail is the roughly the same in both encoding (ie., appears to be limited by the G30 sensor with Bayer color filter, not the encoder). However the 28Mbps 60p AVCHD footage from the Panasonic X920 is as good or better than the 35Mbps 60p MP4 footage from the G30.
post #128 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

Both AVCHD and MP4 use the H.264 video codec so the differences between the two formats will be minimal. In my tests, the 35Mbps 60p MP4 footage from the G30 is slightly better at preserving highlights than the 28Mbps 60p AVCHD footage. Detail is the roughly the same in both encoding (ie., appears to be limited by the G30 sensor with Bayer color filter, not the encoder). However the 28Mbps 60p AVCHD footage from the Panasonic X920 is as good or better than the 35Mbps 60p MP4 footage from the G30.

That said, are you preferring the X920 to the G30? I taped a bunch of games yesterday (or at least I thought I did), and the footage came out quite good. I have Vimeo plus, so I will upload a small sample of footage for you guys to watch. This is MP4 35Mbps 60p.

XA20 Basketball Game Snippet

Imovie will not import the files, which is a bummer. Hopefully they will release something to fix that.
Edited by ErLupo - 7/14/13 at 8:34am
post #129 of 195
Now i have ordered a HF-G10,i may not keep if i prefer my XA10,only tests will decide but the 20x lens could be the decider,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdPUkENvN2Y some hand held footage from last week with the XA10.Looking at the ErLupos film i think 50/60P may help.
post #130 of 195
if you look at all my other videos they were all filmed with the XA10 (well, one of them was filmed with a sony, and quickly abandoned).
post #131 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

That said, are you preferring the X920 to the G30?
I think the X920 and G30 are both very good; each has its strengths and weaknesses and will be better suited to some uses and less suited to others.

The basketball footage you uploaded to vimeo has a riduculously low bit rate, which has obliterated nearly all of the detail. The basketball players look faceless. If you want to provide an accurate assessment of the XA20, you need to shoot at 35Mbps MP4 and upload the original footage to vimeo.
Edited by hatchback - 7/14/13 at 7:37pm
post #132 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

I think the X920 and G30 are both very good; each has its strengths and weaknesses and will be better suited to some uses and less suited to others.

The basketball footage you uploaded to vimeo has a riduculously low bit rate, which has obliterated nearly all of the detail. The basketball players look faceless. If you want to provide an accurate assessment of the XA20, you need to shoot at 35Mbps MP4 and upload the original footage to vimeo.

Interesting, since I uploaded the original file from the camcorder and had it set to 35mbps. Did you download the file?
post #133 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

Interesting, since I uploaded the original file from the camcorder and had it set to 35mbps. Did you download the file?
Yes I downloaded the 96MB 1920x1080 HD .MP4 file. My computer reports that it has a bit rate of 4.5Mbps. What a bummer! I guess vimeo transcoded your upload into a very low quality 1080p30 file.
post #134 of 195
You're supposed to download the original 723MB file. You downloaded the Vimeo compressed version. Go to the download section again and make sure to choose "Original .MP4 file"
post #135 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdPUkENvN2Y some hand held footage from last week with the XA10.
Looks real good - brighter and more accurately colorful than Panasonic camcorder video IMHO.
post #136 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

Looks real good - brighter and more accurately colorful than Panasonic camcorder video IMHO.

Thanks i only hope the HF-G30 i have ordered is a step forward,what i am concerned with is getting long life batteries,my two BP-827 ones i use on the XA10 wont work the new models apparently,pretty mean of Canon there.
post #137 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

You're supposed to download the original 723MB file. You downloaded the Vimeo compressed version. Go to the download section again and make sure to choose "Original .MP4 file"

Paulo is right. My original file is 723mb. I wanted to try some low light filming last night, but my attempts were poor. I hope to get a chance later this week in Vegas.
post #138 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

You're supposed to download the original 723MB file. You downloaded the Vimeo compressed version. Go to the download section again and make sure to choose "Original .MP4 file"
Unfortunately Vimeo didn't offer me the option to download the original MP4 file. Now that I've logged in, it does smile.gif
post #139 of 195
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H822Y4E6ej0 Shows the HF-G30 can resolve more detail
post #140 of 195
Yes. That test clearly demonstrates how the jaggies (aliasing problem) disappear when going from 50i 24Mbps to 50p 28Mbps. Even though Youtube cannot do 28 Mbps it is clear that going from HF G10, HF G20 and XA10 to HF G30 or XA20 solves the aliasing issues.
I have noticed that myself when filming cars and ceilings. I have a HF G10, HF G25 and HF G30.
post #141 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bixbe View Post

Yes. That test clearly demonstrates how the jaggies (aliasing problem) disappear when going from 50i 24Mbps to 50p 28Mbps. Even though Youtube cannot do 28 Mbps it is clear that going from HF G10, HF G20 and XA10 to HF G30 or XA20 solves the aliasing issues.
I have noticed that myself when filming cars and ceilings. I have a HF G10, HF G25 and HF G30.
The G30/XA20/XA25 still have significant aliasing issues. You can easily see this on the slashcam.de frame grabs or by taking movies of any scene with fine repeating detail.
post #142 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

The G30/XA20/XA25 still have significant aliasing issues. You can easily see this on the slashcam.de frame grabs or by taking movies of any scene with fine repeating detail.

When you have played live footage or blu ray edited from them on a very good top of the range tv you will be in a position to blast off,all i can say is my HF30 does not,and compared to GH2 or a FZ150 i have the quality is in a different league.
post #143 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

When you have played live footage or blu ray edited from them on a very good top of the range tv you will be in a position to blast off,all i can say is my HF30 does not,and compared to GH2 or a FZ150 i have the quality is in a different league.
Excellent - I am in a position to blast off because I have a G30. I found color moire in my G30 footage the first time I recorded a scene with repeating fine detail. Here is the footage: https://vimeo.com/70734097
Edited by hatchback - 7/21/13 at 11:43am
post #144 of 195
That link doesn't work.

Ok. now it does.

What does the original footage look like? The clip you uploaded is 1280x720 at a 1.6 mbps data rate.
Edited by Tugela - 7/21/13 at 12:11pm
post #145 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

What does the original footage look like? The clip you uploaded is 1280x720 at a 1.6 mbps data rate.

I uploaded 1920x1080 at 60fps encoded in a 35Mbps MP4 wrapper. It looks like Vimeo transcoded it and won't let you download the original. FWIW, the original file is 19502KB and shows the color moire very clearly.
post #146 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

Excellent - I am in a position to blast off because I have a G30. I found color moire in my G30 footage the first time I recorded a scene with repeating fine detail. Here is the footage: https://vimeo.com/70734097

It would help to watch a film recorded outdoors with normal scenes,if you are unhappy and your cam is not faulty probobly best to return it,as far as my G30 goes it has far superior all round video to my Pana FZ150 and better than a GH2 i owned for two years and TM700 briefly,i certainly dont think Canon are perfect by any meens and Canon uk releasing new models with no available accessory batteries reeks.
post #147 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

I uploaded 1920x1080 at 60fps encoded in a 35Mbps MP4 wrapper. It looks like Vimeo transcoded it and won't let you download the original. FWIW, the original file is 19502KB and shows the color moire very clearly.

That is not the size of the attached file though.

You are going to get moire whenever you have finely divided lines at angles to the resolved lines of the imager. Pretty much every digital camera will do this with certain line spacings if the lens is of sufficient quality to resolve the image more accurately than the sensor resolution. The only way to avoid it completely is if the sensor resolution is better than the optical resolution (or display resolution), but you would probably not be very happy with the overall quality in that case.
post #148 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

You are going to get moire whenever you have finely divided lines at angles to the resolved lines of the imager. Pretty much every digital camera will do this with certain line spacings if the lens is of sufficient quality to resolve the image more accurately than the sensor resolution. The only way to avoid it completely is if the sensor resolution is better than the optical resolution (or display resolution), but you would probably not be very happy with the overall quality in that case.

The color moire that appears in the G30 footage is a result of the optical low pass filter and de-Bayering algorithm used by that camera. Some cameras will have this problem and some will not. For example, the Panasonic X920 does not have this problem. Here's the equivalent footage from the X920: https://vimeo.com/70734096
post #149 of 195
One thing to note is that the G30 video is at 1280x720p while the X920 video is in 640x360p. Both of them are obviously compressed by Vimeo. It doesn't seam like you can download the originals. Eigher that or you uploaded low res files instead of the originals.
post #150 of 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

One thing to note is that the G30 video is at 1280x720p while the X920 video is in 640x360p. Both of them are obviously compressed by Vimeo. It doesn't seam like you can download the originals. Eigher that or you uploaded low res files instead of the originals.
I uploaded the original 28Mbps 1080p60 footage from the X920, but Vimeo screwed it up. Anyway, it doesn't matter, even in the compressed version you can see the difference between the G30 and the X920. The G30 footage is susceptible to color moire but the X920 footage is not. Really this shouldn't surprise anyone.
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