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any point in upgrading subs? - Page 3

post #61 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe0Bloggs View Post

Just adjust levels on the two subs so that the weaker one doesn't bottom out before the stronger one.

Hmm, doesn't look like it from the specs, it's got a phase " Switch " that can be turned to 180 or off. No idea what that does: http://www.klipsch.com/kw-100-subwoofer
post #62 of 122
I was just talking about turning down the volume on your old sub in response to concerns about it limiting system output by clipping and bottomming out before your new sub in the subbass...
post #63 of 122
I was just talking about turning down the volume on your old sub in response to concerns about it limiting system output by clipping and bottomming out before your new sub in the subbass...
post #64 of 122
Thread Starter 
Ok, So I've got the new sub set up. It sound spretty good, but I've got my settings all switched around from what I was told was normal. The sound guy had me put the two subs at the front, UNDER my tower speakers, so now my speakers are about a foot and a half off the ground, and as such the tweeters of the speakers shoot the same 1 1/2 feet over my head. I thought the best position for tweeters was at ear level? .. In addition, when we re ran auddessy, he suggested I keep the towers and front sound stage set at " Full Range " as opposed to setting everything to a 60 or 80 crossover. He said I'd be better off letting the towers utilize their full potential, and let the subs compliment them, however most people say no way, set it at 60 to 80 no matter what. The bass sounds good, maybe a little boomy, I don't know whether it would be worth getting a sub cable and running one to the back of the room instead of having them both at the front or not, In addition, he's got them turned on their sides so the woofer is pointed at me... I guess it sounds good. I'll keep experimenting, but aren't those settings going against everything that is recommended? ( tweeter height / crossover settings )?
post #65 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

Ok, So I've got the new sub set up. It sound spretty good, but I've got my settings all switched around from what I was told was normal. The sound guy had me put the two subs at the front, UNDER my tower speakers, so now my speakers are about a foot and a half off the ground, and as such the tweeters of the speakers shoot the same 1 1/2 feet over my head. I thought the best position for tweeters was at ear level? .. In addition, when we re ran auddessy, he suggested I keep the towers and front sound stage set at " Full Range " as opposed to setting everything to a 60 or 80 crossover. He said I'd be better off letting the towers utilize their full potential, and let the subs compliment them, however most people say no way, set it at 60 to 80 no matter what. The bass sounds good, maybe a little boomy, I don't know whether it would be worth getting a sub cable and running one to the back of the room instead of having them both at the front or not, In addition, he's got them turned on their sides so the woofer is pointed at me... I guess it sounds good. I'll keep experimenting, but aren't those settings going against everything that is recommended? ( tweeter height / crossover settings )?

Yeah, it doesn't sound like this sound guy knew much about what he was doing. You do want your tweeters to be at ear level when seated.

More likely than not putting your subs under your front speakers will have them in less than ideal locations. To find the best location to place your subs you would want to do a sub crawl. Basically just try different positions around the room until you find the place that sounds the best. Then run Audyssey and set your crossover to 80hz for all speakers.

Setting your crossover to 80hz will not leave your speaker's potential unused. A crossover of 80hz will put less of a burden on your receiver and speakers, allowing them to play easier when not trying to play the full frequency spectrum.

You are using a subwoofer cable from your receiver's LFE out right?
post #66 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

Yeah, it doesn't sound like this sound guy knew much about what he was doing. ?
-1. He didn't know anything about what he was doing. rolleyes.gif
post #67 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

Yeah, it doesn't sound like this sound guy knew much about what he was doing. You do want your tweeters to be at ear level when seated.

Agreed. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Then run Audyssey and set your crossover to 80hz for all speakers.

Only if Audyssey has set them to 80hz or lower - never lower a crossover set by Audyssey.
post #68 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

Yeah, it doesn't sound like this sound guy knew much about what he was doing. You do want your tweeters to be at ear level when seated.

More likely than not putting your subs under your front speakers will have them in less than ideal locations. To find the best location to place your subs you would want to do a sub crawl. Basically just try different positions around the room until you find the place that sounds the best. Then run Audyssey and set your crossover to 80hz for all speakers.

Setting your crossover to 80hz will not leave your speaker's potential unused. A crossover of 80hz will put less of a burden on your receiver and speakers, allowing them to play easier when not trying to play the full frequency spectrum.

You are using a subwoofer cable from your receiver's LFE out right?

That's what I thought. I took them off the subs yesterday and turned the subs back to sit in their natural alignment. I also discovered he had the subs volume set to full on both subs, when we ran the auddesey, where as it suggestions during calibration to have both set at 50 %. Oh well, I've moved them to basically the 1/4 position on the front wall like so:
The dimensions of the room don't quite allow for corner placement of the subs, as this would necessitate moving my fronts closer towards eachother, thus ruining the equilateral triangle I've got going ( 8.5 x 8.5 x 8.5 ).. also making for some pretty boomy bass in a small to medium room from what I understand. He actually used some old rca cable I had lying around for the second sub, it IS plugged in to the LFE for what it's worth, though for some strange reason my old sub ( the one on the left in the picture ) sounds lounder then the new sub when both are set to 50 %. I don't know if this is strictly a matter of room acoustics, or the old sub IS actually 100 watts rms as spec'd, where as the new one is 55 RMS with a 255 peak... I suppose it might be the old cable he used? here's a picture of it just to be sure:

I've double checked them, and he's got what I guess I would do with those cables, which is run the actual sub cable ( that came with the denon ) out from the receiver into the back the white rca plug, then have it plugged in to the right sub, and run the other end of the rca cable into the other sub w/ the white rca plug on the other end. In any case I don't have a spl meter, but do have a unscientific android phone, and dl'd a sound meter program to get a vague idea just to see if it was my imagination or not, but indeed the old sub was about 5 - 6 db louder then the new one, so I turned up the new a few notches until they both were at about 83 db .. Of course who knows if that is any where near accurate, but at least it seemed to allow me to set them at the SAME level. Auddesey only measures the sound of " the subwoofer ", it doesn't know that there are two of them, as the receiver is a 7.1 not a 7.2, and there's no setting to change that, so I've got to make due.

So I guess the next step would be what, getting a longer cable possibly and moving the second sub elsewhere?
By the way, I've got my Denon up on Kijiji and Craigslist, and if I can get 100 bucks for it will sink another 100 or so into another used Klipsch of the same model just to make things easier.
post #69 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Agreed. rolleyes.gif
Only if Audyssey has set them to 80hz or lower - never lower a crossover set by Audyssey.

Audyssey had them all set at 40 ( except for my old bi polar rears ) .. I've got them set up to 60 right now, as that seems to give me the most seamless blend between sub and fronts, of course that could be because my sub's volume is turned up a bit. 80 for the fronts makes the subs seem to boomy to my ear at the moment. More is explained above smile.gif
post #70 of 122
Quote:
for some strange reason my old sub ( the one on the left in the picture ) sounds lounder then the new sub when both are set to 50 %

Not all gain controls are created equally. You should be gain matching your subs, see this post.

After gain matching, run the Audyssey first mic position only and hit "calibrate". Check the subwoofer level - you want it as close to 0db as you can get it. If it's not within + or - 3db, adjust the gain on your subs either up or down (and gain match them again) and repeat the Audyssey first mic position until you get there.

If you gain match the subs individually to ~68db it should get you very close. If you don't have an SPL meter, get one. wink.gif
Quote:
The dimensions of the room don't quite allow for corner placement of the subs

Don't forget, you have corners in the back of the room as well! This will sometimes offer even better response than up front, only way to find out is to try it.
Quote:
I've double checked them, and he's got what I guess I would do with those cables, which is run the actual sub cable ( that came with the denon ) out from the receiver into the back the white rca plug, then have it plugged in to the right sub, and run the other end of the rca cable into the other sub w/ the white rca plug on the other end.

Ummm....no. rolleyes.gif This "sound guy" you got is something else!

You should be using a Y-splitter from the AVR's LFE out with individual RCAs then going to each sub.
Quote:
So I guess the next step would be what, getting a longer cable possibly and moving the second sub elsewhere?

Sometimes, one up front and one in back gives the best response....you need to experiment. BUT - you will never know for sure unless you measure the response! REW
post #71 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Not all gain controls are created equally. You should be gain matching your subs, see this post.

After gain matching, run the Audyssey first mic position only and hit "calibrate". Check the subwoofer level - you want it as close to 0db as you can get it. If it's not within + or - 3db, adjust the gain on your subs either up or down (and gain match them again) and repeat the Audyssey first mic position until you get there.

If you gain match the subs individually to ~68db it should get you very close. If you don't have an SPL meter, get one. wink.gif
Don't forget, you have corners in the back of the room as well! This will sometimes offer even better response than up front, only way to find out is to try it.
Ummm....no. rolleyes.gif This "sound guy" you got is something else!

You should be using a Y-splitter from the AVR's LFE out with individual RCAs then going to each sub.
Sometimes, one up front and one in back gives the best response....you need to experiment. BUT - you will never know for sure unless you measure the response! REW

Well, looks like I've got a bit of a shopping list here..., will pick up a spl meter and some new rca cable and report back. I've perused REW and it looks SUPER complex, but I guess I like figuring things out so I'll take it as a challenge. I'll report back once I get the meter and splitter, and gain match! Thanks for the list smile.gif
post #72 of 122
Quote:
I've perused REW and it looks SUPER complex

See this thread, and this awesomely simple setup guide!
post #73 of 122
Thread Starter 
post #74 of 122
Hmmm...hard to say. The meter must be able to be "C weighted" and I can't tell on that one.

Most folks just use the analog Radio Shack meter. I've been using mine for over 20 years.

Maybe this search will help you out.
post #75 of 122
Thread Starter 
Turns out a guy at work has one he's bringing in for me, an old analog one. I'll see if itS c weighted
post #76 of 122
The analog is preferred by most.
post #77 of 122
Thread Starter 
Ok, well I've got some new heavy duty RCA cables from a surplus store for 20 bucks, but forgot to get a proper y splitter, so I'll have to run down tomorrow morning to grab one. I'm looking forward to seeing if the proper sub cables effect any change, I'm sure the will, as I've just got the one sub ( new one ) going right now with the new single cable directly in and it sounds way more powerful . I also got that spl meter from a guy at work, and although it is about 30 years old it does have the c weighting and slow / fast response switches, with an rca output that I could ostensibly connect via a rca to 3.5 jack into my computer. But having read the " Super Easy Setup " for REW, I SERIOUSLY doubt I'm going to go through all that. I mean, even in the easy instructions there is about 80 pages of info to read. First off, it recommends I wear earplugs for the testing, My neighbors would SH#T if I had my subs so loud I needed to wear earplugs in my apartment during testing, even with my thick concrete walls, Then I made it to the part where it said " a regular pc input will not be good enough, you have to invest in a soundcard to eliminate wild variations found in onboard or gpu sound, before I gave up. I'm through investing in pieces of equipment to make this sound perfect, having spent 2000 + dollars in the last month, starting with a seemingly innocent question " should I upgrade from 16 to 12 gauge cable " - to replacing just about my entire sound system! lol. Anyways, I'm done with buying things. That being said, I did read the post about gain matching, and will set about to do so with the y splitter and spl meter tomorrow morning. From there I think I'd rather move the sub around and listen for the best response. I will let you know how my progress is coming in any case! smile.gif

Note: I am surprised that the author doesn't think a modern motherboard with 8 channel dts capable sound output via HDMI isn't as capable as a dedicated sound card, but maybe it's just the MIC input that is superior, still. that earplug suggestion and 100db sound output is a deal breaker for me..
Edited by Sean Spamilton - 4/15/13 at 9:21pm
post #78 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Not all gain controls are created equally. You should be gain matching your subs, see this post.

After gain matching, run the Audyssey first mic position only and hit "calibrate". Check the subwoofer level - you want it as close to 0db as you can get it. If it's not within + or - 3db, adjust the gain on your subs either up or down (and gain match them again) and repeat the Audyssey first mic position until you get there.

If you gain match the subs individually to ~68db it should get you very close. If you don't have an SPL meter, get one. wink.gif
Don't forget, you have corners in the back of the room as well! This will sometimes offer even better response than up front, only way to find out is to try it.
Ummm....no. rolleyes.gif This "sound guy" you got is something else!

You should be using a Y-splitter from the AVR's LFE out with individual RCAs then going to each sub.
Sometimes, one up front and one in back gives the best response....you need to experiment. BUT - you will never know for sure unless you measure the response! REW

Just to be clear on the gain matching, I'm to move the sub ( s ) into the middle of the room, with the auddessy settings set to 0 for the subs ( not adding or decreasing output ), and turn the gain on the back of the sub up with the spl meter in front of it until I hit 68 db, then switch the sub out for the other sub in the same location, and do the same for it - so they both read 68 on the spl meter regardless of where I've got the knob on the back at... then I re run auddessey? I assume I re run it with the subs back in whatever place I decide to experiment with, ie both in front at the 1/4 position, or one in front one in the back, trying to get within 3 db of 0 in Auddessey? ...

I get that part I think ( sorry for my rookie confusion here ) - but wouldn't it also make sense to put the spl meter in the listening position, and gain match the subs from there respective positions to make sure that the listening spot is getting the exact same reading? - for example, wouldn't it make sense, if I kept both subs at the front, to set the spl in the L.P. and adjust the gain one at a time until they are both reading 68 from the LP on the SPL? what good will gain matching do from the middle of the room, when taking into account room accoustics? for example, if I match them at the exact same spot in the middle of the room, won't the SPL meter change depending on placement? so one at the front corner might be hitting the LP with say 75 db after gain matching due to room characteristics, where as one in the middle of the back wall might only read 65. In that case wouldn't it make more sense to adjust the gain until they both read 70 at the LP?
post #79 of 122
Gain matching those sub is a mistake. Here is a great step by step ways to setup the subs.http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817. Run all speakers as small and accept the Auddysee xo point. Look at the spec of the least capable speaker in your system, for example, the surround speaker with a frequency response of 74Hz to 20kHz. Set the xo 10-15 higher, or 85-90 Hz. This will protect the speakers in the system from damage and should still blend with the mains and sub. Also when setting up a system, one should also consider the subs/s frequency range. Example:

Sub 20 Hz to 100 Hz
Mains 30 Hz to 20 kHz
XO rang = 30 to 100 Hz

Sub 20 Hz to 200 Hz
Satellite speaker 150 Hz to 20 kHz
XO= 150 to 200 Hz

From the picture you towers are no very large, so set them to small. Also place one sub in a front corner and the small or weaker sub on a side or rear wall. Your room may not afford you to use the sub craw technique. Use a Y connector: 1 male /2 female ends to connect to the avr and 2 RCA cables. If you fear over driving the weak sub, place it nearer to your seat/couch.
post #80 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1 View Post

Gain matching those sub is a mistake. Here is a great step by step ways to setup the subs.http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=95817. Run all speakers as small and accept the Auddysee xo point. Look at the spec of the least capable speaker in your system, for example, the surround speaker with a frequency response of 74Hz to 20kHz. Set the xo 10-15 higher, or 85-90 Hz. This will protect the speakers in the system from damage and should still blend with the mains and sub. Also when setting up a system, one should also consider the subs/s frequency range. Example:

Sub 20 Hz to 100 Hz
Mains 30 Hz to 20 kHz
XO rang = 30 to 100 Hz

Sub 20 Hz to 200 Hz
Satellite speaker 150 Hz to 20 kHz
XO= 150 to 200 Hz

From the picture you towers are no very large, so set them to small. Also place one sub in a front corner and the small or weaker sub on a side or rear wall. Your room may not afford you to use the sub craw technique. Use a Y connector: 1 male /2 female ends to connect to the avr and 2 RCA cables. If you fear over driving the weak sub, place it nearer to your seat/couch.

Well actually these PSB speakers have a pretty decent frequency range, although I've already got them set to small and to crossover at 60 across the fronts and the sides. I'm not concerned about damaging the old sub, it's old and should probably be replaced with a matching one anyways, that being said if I can set them to blend well together I will. I'm actually not concerned about the crossover frequencies at this point, as much as I am with trying to get the subs to be in phase with each other - and at the same volume. I think that utilization of the SPL meter will be of some help to that end, and have read people having much success with gain matching. I think either gain or level matching is the way to go here, again I'm not worried about the range of my fronts / sides, as they can go pretty low, and even setting a crossover of 60 will give them an octave below to roll off at, if they need it. Thanks for your link though, I'm going to follow through with Alan's advice as he's been quite helpful to this point smile.gif

By the by, here's the specs on my speakers: http://www.psbspeakers.com/content/121003090243-PSB-Image-Specs_English_Sep17.pdf
post #81 of 122
Is there really a point to making both subs play as loud? I would think the better strategy for unmatched subs would be to set gains as appropriate, with the less capable sub set to play quieter, so that it doesn't bottom out before the better sub when the system is played loud.
post #82 of 122
Well, now that the other guys mention it, gain matching is really best done with identical subs. With mis-matched subs, it's kind of a crapshoot....but I would still gain match yours, their not that different in specs are they?
Quote:
I get that part I think ( sorry for my rookie confusion here ) - but wouldn't it also make sense to put the spl meter in the listening position, and gain match the subs from there respective positions to make sure that the listening spot is getting the exact same reading? - for example, wouldn't it make sense, if I kept both subs at the front, to set the spl in the L.P. and adjust the gain one at a time until they are both reading 68 from the LP on the SPL? what good will gain matching do from the middle of the room, when taking into account room accoustics? for example, if I match them at the exact same spot in the middle of the room, won't the SPL meter change depending on placement? so one at the front corner might be hitting the LP with say 75 db after gain matching due to room characteristics, where as one in the middle of the back wall might only read 65. In that case wouldn't it make more sense to adjust the gain until they both read 70 at the LP?

The theory behind gain matching is so all subs are playing at the same level all the time, alleviating the problems caused by one sub running harder than another. "Level Matching" is what you describe in the second paragraph and what I did for almost 20 years until I found out this was wrong. Up to you on the way you want to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

Just to be clear on the gain matching, I'm to move the sub ( s ) into the middle of the room, with the auddessy settings set to 0 for the subs ( not adding or decreasing output ), and turn the gain on the back of the sub up with the spl meter in front of it until I hit 68 db, then switch the sub out for the other sub in the same location, and do the same for it - so they both read 68 on the spl meter regardless of where I've got the knob on the back at... then I re run auddessey? I assume I re run it with the subs back in whatever place I decide to experiment with, ie both in front at the 1/4 position, or one in front one in the back, trying to get within 3 db of 0 in Auddessey?

This is correct. Make sure the SPL meter does not move between measurements either.
post #83 of 122
Thread Starter 
Ok, so I've done the best I can to this point, gain matched the subs to 68db - and actually for music it sounds pretty good ... but two things I think I might have done wrong / had a problem with.. first off the only way I could get a reading from the " c weighting " setting was to set the knob to 90 - this can't be right .. if I put it down to 70 on the nob the needle was buried all the way to the right on the plus side, so off the chart. I was able to use the knob at " A Weighting " on the 70 setting, which was where I took the reading to 68db. At 68db on the SPL, ( give or take a db as the analog meter goes up and down a little bit as it's reading ) I re ran audessy and it set my subs at -3.5db from line level, which is fairly close to where you suggested. That being said, to get the subs to 68db while gain matching, I had to turn the gain down significantly, well at least on the Denon sub. My old sub is set about 1/4 of the way up, while the new sub is just past half the way up, so the Denon is at 3 / 12 while the Klipsch is at about 7 out of 12 to get to the same db output. So is the old one just more powerful I wonder, or is the gain just set up differently? I can only assume at louder volumes the Denon would distort more, but who knows. Anyways I've got them both at the front at the moment, beside the L and R speakers,,, and again there is a fairly decent amount of bass coming through for music. I don't want to subject my neighbors to Rambo 3 or Band of Brothers right now to test the bass, but will try home theater tomorrow. Did I work the SPL meter correctly?
post #84 of 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

Ok, so I've done the best I can to this point, gain matched the subs to 68db - and actually for music it sounds pretty good ... but two things I think I might have done wrong / had a problem with.. first off the only way I could get a reading from the " c weighting " setting was to set the knob to 90 - this can't be right .. if I put it down to 70 on the nob the needle was buried all the way to the right on the plus side, so off the chart. I was able to use the knob at " A Weighting " on the 70 setting, which was where I took the reading to 68db. At 68db on the SPL, ( give or take a db as the analog meter goes up and down a little bit as it's reading ) I re ran audessy and it set my subs at -3.5db from line level, which is fairly close to where you suggested. That being said, to get the subs to 68db while gain matching, I had to turn the gain down significantly, well at least on the Denon sub. My old sub is set about 1/4 of the way up, while the new sub is just past half the way up, so the Denon is at 3 / 12 while the Klipsch is at about 7 out of 12 to get to the same db output. So is the old one just more powerful I wonder, or is the gain just set up differently? I can only assume at louder volumes the Denon would distort more, but who knows. Anyways I've got them both at the front at the moment, beside the L and R speakers,,, and again there is a fairly decent amount of bass coming through for music. I don't want to subject my neighbors to Rambo 3 or Band of Brothers right now to test the bass, but will try home theater tomorrow. Did I work the SPL meter correctly?

If you got Audyssey to set them at -3.5db then you got it right. biggrin.gif However, if you use the SPL meter for further calibration, you should always use "Slow" and "C" weighting.

The discrepency between the two subs' gain controls means absolutely nothing in terms of "power" - you can't expect subs from different manufacturers to have the same gain control calibrations.
post #85 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

If you got Audyssey to set them at -3.5db then you got it right. biggrin.gif However, if you use the SPL meter for further calibration, you should always use "Slow" and "C" weighting.

The discrepency between the two subs' gain controls means absolutely nothing in terms of "power" - you can't expect subs from different manufacturers to have the same gain control calibrations.

Fair enough - It sounds pretty decent from what I can tell at the moment. I do have a line on a matching sub to the new klipsch for 200 ... Wonder if it would be worth it just to forget about the denon and match the klipsch? / or alternately - do you think If I learned REW I could match them close enough to be fine?
Edited by Sean Spamilton - 4/17/13 at 10:43am
post #86 of 122
For you, as far as I see, the only way to know which sub is more powerful is to play sine tones at a low bass frequency and crank up the volume on each sub to see at what volume each one distorts... I would do this for several frequencies from 20Hz to 80Hz to get a handle on the max clean output vs frequency characteristic of each sub. But the important metric would probably be 20Hz... whichever sub distorts at a lower volume, set it so that it plays at a lower volume for that frequency. Which may not mean the same thing as a lower overall volume. Confusing eh smile.gif

But in practice I would be wary of stress testing my subs like this... redface.gif
post #87 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe0Bloggs View Post

For you, as far as I see, the only way to know which sub is more powerful is to play sine tones at a low bass frequency and crank up the volume on each sub to see at what volume each one distorts... I would do this for several frequencies from 20Hz to 80Hz to get a handle on the max clean output vs frequency characteristic of each sub. But the important metric would probably be 20Hz... whichever sub distorts at a lower volume, set it so that it plays at a lower volume for that frequency. Which may not mean the same thing as a lower overall volume. Confusing eh smile.gif

But in practice I would be wary of stress testing my subs like this... redface.gif

Hmm.. fair enough - NEW problem though, although the two subs sound pretty good, the Denon 1913 is running real hot to touch, and has started turning itself off after extended listening sessions. I turn it back on, it runs for a few minutes, the poof - it's off. Could this be the two subs drawing more power then the sub is able to put out?
post #88 of 122
The subs should have nothing to do with the AVR running hot. Do you have sufficient "breathing room" around the AVR? Is it in an enclosed cabinet?
post #89 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

The subs should have nothing to do with the AVR running hot. Do you have sufficient "breathing room" around the AVR? Is it in an enclosed cabinet?

No you're right - I just called Denon and they said the same thing - It gets finicky sometimes, I'll just do a factory reset on it - usually takes care of everything. One thing the Denon sales guy said, that has certainly piqued my curiosity, is that to justify the money I just spent on the PSB's I really should be looking at bi-wiring them... and driving them with more watts per channel. If I step up to a 2313 or 3313 they also come included with the .2 for subs, which means that auddessey would measure them separately... I think I'll lay off matching the sub for now, and put the money towards a new receiver instead smile.gif

Update: Factory reset it and it's still turning off at high ( er ) volumes.. F#$K.
Edited by Sean Spamilton - 4/17/13 at 11:43am
post #90 of 122
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

The subs should have nothing to do with the AVR running hot. Do you have sufficient "breathing room" around the AVR? Is it in an enclosed cabinet?

Hmm... It just started doing it today, which is incidentally when I've tried running the two subs at high volume, but as there powered subs you must be right. It's for sure overheating though, as it turns itself off with a blinking red light telling me it's put itself into protection mode from heat... We'll see what Denon has to say.. SIGH.

Edit: They said my speakers are too powerful for my receiver " trying to draw to much power" and making the unit turn off.
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